CPL Stadium Thread

[narduch]

Oakland USLC team is building this in the Oakland A's parking lot.

 

[Cheeta]

Interesting, but I'll take a pass.

[Ansem]

Is BMO available for the community use? Don't think so...

[Big_M]

hmm with these reactions and hfx only having one season of the temporary stadium left martin needs to step up and propose to pay a significant amount...“willing to help contribute financially” probably wont be very convincing

[Kingston]

23 minutes ago, Watchmen said:

Owners: Stadiums are a great investment!

Public: Ok, why don't you build it yourself?

Owners: Ummmmmmmm

Owners don't for two reasons.

First, they've been trained not to because cities are so often willing to put up at least some of the costs.

Second, there is an argument (with people on both sides) to be made for partial city funding.  The short version is that a stadium is one of those things where the total benefits generally exceed the cost but the benefits and the costs do not accrue to the same entities. 

Making up some numbers, a typical Wanderers game attracts 6000 fans.  Maybe half of them have a pregame dinner and/or post game drinks somewhere downtown.  Maybe 5% come from out of town, perhaps make the game part of a weekend in Halifax, and stay in a hotel.  People take taxis or buy gas.  Other people watch at home with friends and order in pizza.  Whatever.  Each Wanderers game could easily be worth $200 000 to $250 000 to the Halifax economy entirely aside from any money literally spent at the game for tickets/merch/food/etc.  That's all possible because there's a stadium but none of it goes to the people who build and pay for the stadium.  Hence the idea that the city might kick in for the general good.

[Watchmen]

33 minutes ago, Kingston said:

Owners don't for two reasons.

First, they've been trained not to because cities are so often willing to put up at least some of the costs.

Second, there is an argument (with people on both sides) to be made for partial city funding.  The short version is that a stadium is one of those things where the total benefits generally exceed the cost but the benefits and the costs do not accrue to the same entities. 

Making up some numbers, a typical Wanderers game attracts 6000 fans.  Maybe half of them have a pregame dinner and/or post game drinks somewhere downtown.  Maybe 5% come from out of town, perhaps make the game part of a weekend in Halifax, and stay in a hotel.  People take taxis or buy gas.  Other people watch at home with friends and order in pizza.  Whatever.  Each Wanderers game could easily be worth $200 000 to $250 000 to the Halifax economy entirely aside from any money literally spent at the game for tickets/merch/food/etc.  That's all possible because there's a stadium but none of it goes to the people who build and pay for the stadium.  Hence the idea that the city might kick in for the general good.

Yup, I understand all of that. And to be fair, I'm in favor of cities working with a private company. I just dislike the number of times owners ask for a total handout while also controlling most of the direct revenue generated by the stadium.

[to70]

1 hour ago, Ansem said:

Is BMO available for the community use? Don't think so...

Actually was when it was an artificial turf.

[Lurker]

5 hours ago, SoccMan said:

Why do we in Canada have a fascination with stadiums having open ends? Just enclose the damn thing , but no we need to have a beer garden or a kids playground or we need to be able to look at the skyline or the nice forest or whatever, because God forbid all we have to look at is the game in front of us , you know the reason why we are at the stadium!

I'm not an open end fan boy but I think right now the current plan gets us to 8500 which we likely won't sell out often... if we closed the other end then it would look even more empty.  There's also the whole... this plan is already projected at 40 million so what's another closed end cost?

I'm a fan of the closed end or at least a partial upper stands that oversees the party atmosphere below... if this all works out it will probably get closed off eventually... I'll be long dead then but that's a minor footnote. 

Edited September 20, 2023 by Lurker

[Kingston]

9 minutes ago, Lurker said:

I'm not an open end fan boy but I think right now the current plan gets us to 8500 which we likely won't sell out often... if we closed the other end then it would look even more empty.  There's also the whole... this plan is already projected at 40 million so what's another closed end cost?

The capacity could be the same in an enclosed stadium.  I can't imagine the cost would be that much different.

[Lurker]

4 minutes ago, Kingston said:

The capacity could be the same in an enclosed stadium.  I can't imagine the cost would be that much different.

I don't know enough about construction to provide a useful opinion.  If you had less rows in the side and opposite end then that lower cost could equal the other enclosed end for an 8500 capacity.  Math seems like it would check out.  How would that impact future expansion though?  I would guess it'd be hard to add more rows unless it was a more substantial second level which means the overall potential cost of future expansion could be higher.

Edited September 20, 2023 by Lurker

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

54 minutes ago, to70 said:

Actually was when it was an artificial turf.

...and MLSE paid to bring Lamport up to snuff in that regard so the community access angle could be maintained close by after a grass pitch was installed.

[Colonel Green]

2 hours ago, Watchmen said:

Owners: Stadiums are a great investment!

Public: Ok, why don't you build it yourself?

Owners: Ummmmmmmm

Not really applicable in this case given that the city owns the land in question (and for concerns about rents, etc., it's surely better to use existing greenspace rather than buy up land in the downtown that is zoned for some other use and turn it into a stadium (even assuming that the Wanderers could afford that).

However, the biggest problem that the Wanderers have in terms of making this case is that Halifax has been around for almost 300 years without having a big community stadium, so even if it would be useful, residents who have heretofore been just fine without one aren't necessarily going to feel the need to spend money on it. 

[Haligonian#1]

23 minutes ago, Colonel Green said:

Not really applicable in this case given that the city owns the land in question (and for concerns about rents, etc., it's surely better to use existing greenspace rather than buy up land in the downtown that is zoned for some other use and turn it into a stadium (even assuming that the Wanderers could afford that).

However, the biggest problem that the Wanderers have in terms of making this case is that Halifax has been around for almost 300 years without having a big community stadium, so even if it would be useful, residents who have heretofore been just fine without one aren't necessarily going to feel the need to spend money on it. 

Halifax has just hit half a million in population and is growing fast (25,000-35,000 people a year). It needs to start investing in all kinds of infrastructure, including sport and cultural infrastructure. The councillors that I heard from seemed supportive. Mayor Savage is a big sports fan and the Premier has attended a couple of matches that I am aware of. Prior to the Pandemic, Council was ready to contribute 20 million dollars towards a CFL stadium for a team that didn't exist yet and with no proven market penetration. This team not only exists, but has a proven track record of filling seats. The season ticket holder base is probably 4,500-5,000. That has been the case since 2019. Those metal bleachers style seats are super uncomfortable. A lot of the season ticket holders are 50+. I think a new stadium with proper seats, combined with a growing and diverse population will result in sell-out crowds of 8,000 to 8,500 people.

[grasshopper1917]

This is just antidotal however most people I talk to locally about the subject don't feel a modern 8500 seat stadium that looks like the one in the rendering can be built for 40million dollars. I am not sure if its possible however I do know almost every stadium over runs costs - and usually by quite a bit. I think Winnipeg's ended up costing double the original plan didn't it??

[Haligonian#1]

25 minutes ago, grasshopper1917 said:

This is just antidotal however most people I talk to locally about the subject don't feel a modern 8500 seat stadium that looks like the one in the rendering can be built for 40million dollars. I am not sure if its possible however I do know almost every stadium over runs costs - and usually by quite a bit. I think Winnipeg's ended up costing double the original plan didn't it??

They are proposing a modular system. I think that $40 million sounds about right.

[Lurker]

9 hours ago, grasshopper1917 said:

This is just antidotal however most people I talk to locally about the subject don't feel a modern 8500 seat stadium that looks like the one in the rendering can be built for 40million dollars. I am not sure if its possible however I do know almost every stadium over runs costs - and usually by quite a bit. I think Winnipeg's ended up costing double the original plan didn't it??

It’s debatably half a stadium if you consider the permanent aspects cover one side and one end.  

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

Guess they need to leave the door ajar for a CFL team to be able to join them there to eliminate some of the possible angles of attack from people opposed to the project.

[Kingston]

14 hours ago, Colonel Green said:

However, the biggest problem that the Wanderers have in terms of making this case is that Halifax has been around for almost 300 years without having a big community stadium, so even if it would be useful, residents who have heretofore been just fine without one aren't necessarily going to feel the need to spend money on it. 

Halifax also got along fine for the first 200 years without a sewer system.  Or electricity.  Who needs these newfangled things?

[Lurker]

1 hour ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

Guess they need to leave the door ajar for a CFL team to be able to join them there to eliminate some of the possible angles of attack from people opposed to the project.

It’s definitely not out of the question but I don’t think that’s the intent.  The proposal is set up in a way to find the sweet spot (8500, artificial turf, etc.) between those who want it and those who don’t want any kind of publicly funded/owned stadium.

I’m not sure what the CFL community thinks of it but I don’t think they were taken into consideration.

[SpursFlu]

Not sure what this means exactly to the Vancouver fc stadium but interesting nonetheless as it adds infrastructure and more parking to the LEC. There are indoor soccer pitches being added (with boards it seems, which i hate) perhaps helpful for off season training. Looks like whe people want to find money they find it and when they don't it's nowhere to be found

https://www.langleyadvancetimes.com/local-news/funding-for-langley-events-centre-expansion-rises-to-149-million-4545926

Edited October 2, 2023 by SpursFlu

[SoccMan]

On 10/2/2023 at 12:09 PM, SpursFlu said:

Not sure what this means exactly to the Vancouver fc stadium but interesting nonetheless as it adds infrastructure and more parking to the LEC. There are indoor soccer pitches being added (with boards it seems, which i hate) perhaps helpful for off season training. Looks like whe people want to find money they find it and when they don't it's nowhere to be found

https://www.langleyadvancetimes.com/local-news/funding-for-langley-events-centre-expansion-rises-to-149-million-4545926

No mention of the stadium in that article or even the fact that there is a pro team playing in a newly built facility on the grounds , you would think the CPL team and the stadium would get some kind of mention in that article in a Langley based news outlet . 

[SoccMan]

On 9/20/2023 at 2:49 PM, Ansem said:

Is BMO available for the community use? Don't think so...

Is Scotiabank arena where the leafs and Raptors play available for community use ? 

[Ansem]

28 minutes ago, SoccMan said:

Is Scotiabank arena where the leafs and Raptors play available for community use ? 

Scotiabank is privately funded and owned, BMO is City of Toronto property 

[Kingston]

Does anyone know when the Wanderers find out about their stadium proposal?

[SpursFlu]

On 9/20/2023 at 11:33 AM, narduch said:

Oakland USLC team is building this in the Oakland A's parking lot.

 

With the Athletics leaving to Vegas there is actually a much nicer looking proposal on the table now. You basically have a giant parking lot for the GS Warriors old arena and As stadium completely empty.. so why not? Not a very nice neighborhood so with As leaving now too, I'm sure they'll take any investment they can find