Canadian Premier League

[Shway]

Just now, BCM1555362349 said:

Um, no they're not. Not even close. You would know this after watching 15 minutes of a CIS match and 15 minutes of two average NCAA teams. Sorry to say this, but it is true...

Uhhh what lol....arrogant much to tell me you know what I watch, but like your location...your far far off.

My statement comes from playing against both NCAA and the best OUA teams.

My statement also comes from comparing players who have come through the NCAA and gone on to play in the MLS (Kyle Bekker for example) vs. the CIS/CCAA players who have come through those programs and gone on to play nowhere (L1O) due to lack of opportunity (Jarek Whiteman).

My statement comes based on the recent "findings" of players like Raheem Edwards, Mo Baboulis, Wandrille Leferves, Bret Levis, Tyson Faragos, Paul Craigs, Paul Hamiltons, (and the list can keep going.) who never touched the NCAA but have made their way through the professional ranks.

Also, I don't know if you have followed the recent trends of the MLS Superdraft but you would realize that outside of the top 5 picks, players a barely signing for the clubs and some cases retiring from the game. Anddddd the top 5 picks typically are internationals.

 

[Shway]

Haven't seen this done, but I would like to see the CPL rosters comprised of the following:

Establishing the CPL Roster 

A Canadian Premier League team must have a minimum of 21 signed players, and cannot exceed 25. Teams must have three players in the squad that are under the age of 20. 

Club Salary Budget $2,000,000

 

Main Roster (1-18)

The Main Roster can be comprised of up to 18 players. Teams must have at least eight Domestic players, and no more then ten International players signed. Teams can have no less than 17 players signed to their main roster.

Minimum Salary: $60,000

Max Salary: $275,000

 

Support Roster (19-25)

The Support Roster players must be 24-years old or younger during the league year, and at least three players must be Domestic players. Teams can have no less than four reserve players signed.

Minimum Salary: $35,000

Max Salary: $55,000

 

Player Categories

Domestic players

A domestic player is either a Canadian Citizen, a permanent resident or the holder of a certain other special status. It also consists of American Citizens who’s first professional contract is with the league.

International Players

Any player who does not qualify as a Domestic Player will be considered an International player, and must occupy and international slot.

Ace Players

Each team is limited to signing one International Ace Player, and one Canadian Ace Player. For both types of Ace Players, the total salary and acquisition costs can exceed the league maximum salary, and have a budget charge of the maximum salary charge of $275,000.

 

Game day

Teams must have a minimum of seven Domestic Players in the 18-man game day roster, with a minimum of 3 Domestic players in the starting IX.

 

.....Overall thats a minimum requirement of 11 Canadians per team, and 4 starting spots (1 guaranteed 90). You sextuple all of that and we have a league of *6 teams with a minimum of 66 Canadians, getting 24 starting spots, and at least 540 minutes played by Canadians. 

If we're not creating this with Canadians at the ultimate forefront (regardless of growing pains) then we've lost the plot.

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

4 hours ago, BuzzAndSting said:

It's staggering to me that there are so called Canadian soccer fans who talk about how long they've been a fan and then shit on the CPL at every opportunity....

People were puffing their chest out and saying much the same on here about 15 years back with CUSL. This is further along than that ever got, but it's still no slam dunk in terms of actually happening and lasting more than a single season if it does. The Ticats have been talking about launching a pro soccer team for almost a decade now. In marked contrast with that the owners of FC Edmonton and the Ottawa Fury got on with things and actually did it. If as now appears to be the case (for certain with Edmonton and probably with the Fury), they are steering well clear of the Ticat's masterplan for the future of Canadian soccer it raises reasonable questions as to why. The exclusion of the two MLS reserve teams that are playing at a D2 level this season in the USL also raises reasonable questions as to whether this is really the best way to go on a domestic league. If those four were involved and helping to shape the agenda a stable and viable league would probably be much easier to achieve. Getting all the stakeholders within a sport pushing in the same direction is usually the way to make things happen successfully.

[SuperCanuck]

4 hours ago, GuillermoDelQuarto said:

oh we're getting a fucking team bro

Whitehorse FC will be the stallion that mounts the world!

It'll be a fun trip to Iqaluit for the Northern derby.

[Macksam]

2 hours ago, Jahinho Guerro said:

Domestic players

A domestic player is either a Canadian Citizen, a permanent resident or the holder of a certain other special status. It also consists of American Citizens who’s first professional contract is with the league.

Why? Unless this league has an American based team, absolutely not.

[Macksam]

2 hours ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

People were puffing their chest out and saying much the same on here about 15 years back with CUSL. This is further along than that ever got, but it's still no slam dunk in terms of actually happening and lasting more than a single season if it does. The Ticats have been talking about launching a pro soccer team for almost a decade now. In marked contrast with that the owners of FC Edmonton and the Ottawa Fury got on with things and actually did it. If as now appears to be the case (for certain with Edmonton and probably with the Fury), they are steering well clear of the Ticat's masterplan for the future of Canadian soccer it raises reasonable questions as to why. The exclusion of the two MLS reserve teams that are playing at a D2 level this season in the USL also raises reasonable questions as to whether this is really the best way to go on a domestic league. If those four were involved and helping to shape the agenda a stable and viable league would probably be much easier to achieve. Getting all the stakeholders within a sport pushing in the same direction is usually the way to make things happen successfully.

The obvious reason would be because Bob Young and company didn't want to half ass it like those clubs did and be content with a few thousand people in the stands. It's also obvious the Hamilton ownership group feels it can build a club that can fully utilize it's city's capacity like the MLS teams do with our three biggest cities.

[Gordon]

9 hours ago, nolbertos said:

How can you claim a "Canadian league" nowadays if its not coast to coast.  Its like the CPSL days, where they called themselves "Canadian Professional Soccer League" even though they were Ontario centric.  Jesus have some of you not been following Canadian Soccer over the last 30 years.  Its why we're still in this rut

We are in this rut because far to many folks can't see that the country has changed a whole lot over the past 25 years. I am truly sorry that you, BBTB and others were so badly scarred by the failure of CSL in the early 90s. I do wish we could create for a "red pill" like forum where bitter Canadian soccer fans could vent about how Canadian leagues leave them with blue balls while foreign leagues suck on command. 

[BuzzAndSting]

3 hours ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

People were puffing their chest out and saying much the same on here about 15 years back with CUSL. This is further along than that ever got, but it's still no slam dunk in terms of actually happening and lasting more than a single season if it does. The Ticats have been talking about launching a pro soccer team for almost a decade now. In marked contrast with that the owners of FC Edmonton and the Ottawa Fury got on with things and actually did it. If as now appears to be the case (for certain with Edmonton and probably with the Fury), they are steering well clear of the Ticat's masterplan for the future of Canadian soccer it raises reasonable questions as to why. The exclusion of the two MLS reserve teams that are playing at a D2 level this season in the USL also raises reasonable questions as to whether this is really the best way to go on a domestic league. If those four were involved and helping to shape the agenda a stable and viable league would probably be much easier to achieve. Getting all the stakeholders within a sport pushing in the same direction is usually the way to make things happen successfully.

That's your assumption. Nothing is certain right now and if anything I think it's more likely now that Ottawa will be involved than it ever has been. In terms of Edmonton there's still a possibility they leave the NASL to join the CPL. How many times do you hear in sports that something is "never going to happen" only for that exact thing to happen.

Anyway. We get it, you and nolbertos are skeptical. No need to keep beating a dead horse.

 

[BCM]

6 hours ago, Jahinho Guerro said:

Uhhh what lol....arrogant much to tell me you know what I watch, but like your location...your far far off.

My statement comes from playing against both NCAA and the best OUA teams.

My statement also comes from comparing players who have come through the NCAA and gone on to play in the MLS (Kyle Bekker for example) vs. the CIS/CCAA players who have come through those programs and gone on to play nowhere (L1O) due to lack of opportunity (Jarek Whiteman).

My statement comes based on the recent "findings" of players like Raheem Edwards, Mo Baboulis, Wandrille Leferves, Bret Levis, Tyson Faragos, Paul Craigs, Paul Hamiltons, (and the list can keep going.) who never touched the NCAA but have made their way through the professional ranks.

Also, I don't know if you have followed the recent trends of the MLS Superdraft but you would realize that outside of the top 5 picks, players a barely signing for the clubs and some cases retiring from the game. Anddddd the top 5 picks typically are internationals.

 

Don't mean to be arrogant but come on...

My statement comes from having played in the NCAAs and when looking to transfer actually had a coach from an Ontario university say to me, and I do quote, "you know we really just play for fun here, it's not serious".  I too played with Canadian uni kids in the summer. Now that was a long time ago, but you get the point.

My statement also comes from watching a few matches - involving Western, McMaster, Guelph, Carleton, U of T and even York few matches in 2013, 2014 and 2015. I found it brutal, the stuff of kick and chase... York was by far the most talented, but let's be honest it was only due to about 3-5 players far superior to any other on the field. The weaker players in the starting 11 weren't of any decent standard. 

You've named a few CIS players - but really, for every CIS (CCAA, etc) player that makes it as a pro how many NCAA players are there? I mean come on, while Smits and Farango have "made it" as pros how many keepers who attended the NCAAs in the same years did so? We can even limit it to Canadian keepers if you want!

Why do our youth teams always feature an NCAA player or two but never CIS? And of course, why does our national team have NCAA players but rarely if ever a CIS player? Why even do most Canadian academy kids go to the US?

There are quite a few Canadians playing in the USL for American teams - how many played in NCAAs and how many at a Canadian university? Why? What makes for the "lack of opportunity" you point to - it's not based on nationality and quite a few USL teams even have open tryouts.   So what accounts for this massive difference...

I am not saying the CIS is terrible and there are no good players - of course not! But given a choice most of the top players that can go down south do so. Those who stay (that I am aware of) do so for family reasons not sporting reasons.

I am also not saying the NCAAs is great - far from it. More and more academy players will rise up (although a lot play NCAA) and unless the NCAAs change things they will increasingly become less relevant. But don't confuse a waning draft and rise of academies as making your point - again, most academy kids play in the NCAAs but just are not illegible for the draft. Moreover, foreign or American, those top 5 picks usually went to US schools. Would love it if one eventually comes from a Canadian school, but again you get my point.

- and it's "you're" not "your" -- I hope you didn't go to a Canadian uni!

[dyslexic nam]

No PEI team = amateur-hour regional league.

[Gopherbashi]

7 hours ago, GuillermoDelQuarto said:

oh we're getting a fucking team bro

Whitehorse FC will be the stallion that mounts the world!

Sorry buddy, if you want it to be truly coast to coast to coast, you'll need to wait for the Tuktoyaktuk Tigercats FC.

[m-g-williams]

9 minutes ago, Gopherbashi said:

Sorry buddy, if you want it to be truly coast to coast to coast, you'll need to wait for the Tuktoyaktuk Tigercats FC.

I'm still waiting for the announcement of the CFS Alert United.

[Ansem]

8 hours ago, matty said:

Alright @Ansem I think it's safe to say this could either way. Wanna bet a beer on whether the league is full of solid Latin players or US talent?

I'll take that bet! I'm saying Central and South Americans so I'm looking forward to my Heineken at a CPL game!

[DigzTFC]

https://www.hfxwanderers.ca/single-post/2017/03/30/Recap-of-Information-Session

There was a town hall with the Halifax organizer and Paul Bierne last night in Halifax

March 30th meeting in Halifax with S|E|A CEO Derek Martin and CPL representative Paul Beirne.

 

No official number on the amount of people there, but I’d say a little under 100.

 

These notes were taken chronologically. These are summaries and paraphrases on what was said. Quotations denote direct quotes.

 

Paul Beirne took the floor first. He stated that he was going to discuss the opportunity this league will offer our country.

 

He began by asking us to raise our hands if we knew a pro hockey player. Then if we knew one from our region. Most in the room had their hands up.

He then asked the same questions in a soccer context. Very few hands were raised in comparison.

 

He stated that this is not about the business, the giant stadiums or the billionaires. This is about the players, and specifically the Canadian players. It’s about getting Canada from being the 117th ranked country to a perennial contender.

 

He hates comparing Canada to the US but in this case it’s hard not to do so. The US had to build up a feasible league in a short amount of time. That league is MLS. There were hiccups. They launched the league, it almost failed so they reorganized the business structure and made it work. They now have a blueprint on how to build a successful league in North America. It’s now time to adapt those lessons to a Canadian league. They can look back on 20 years of the MLS and see what worked, what didn’t.

MLS now bigger spectator sport than the NHL in the US.

 

There are a handful of stadiums in Canada that are appropriate for this league. Halifax is on their way to getting one.

 

We have some Canadian owners who have the right financial model and will to put their capital at risk. “These are reasons to be optimistic”.

 

The business model they’re going with for the CPL has an “emphasis on fans”. It is about the fans. We have more fans (percentage) in the country now, than the US had in comparison before MLS started up. This is now a mainstream sport in Canada.  People in Canada “are craving this”. He Mentioned Portland Timbers as the ultimate fan experience - something we should all should strive for.

 

There are over 200 opportunities for Canadian players to make a living at home once this league becomes a reality. With an emphasis on developing these players, they can thrive. This in turn makes the CMNT a regional power.

 

With the new changes for WC qualifying, there will be 7 CONCACAF spots available. “After 2026, we will never miss a World Cup”.

 

The vision we have for Halifax is remarkable.  It will be a privately funded stadium in “a unique and appropriate site as he’s seen in any city”. While dealing with the city, he’s learned that “Halifax has it’s own way at looking at things” (referring to development.) “And nobody’s knocked it down” (this stadium proposal).

 

Derek Martin now took the floor to discuss the opportunity for the city.

 

Derek’s presentation revolved around going over the PowerPoint presentation he presented to city council on the 23rd, “The Halifax Document”. He made a joke about how this should be new to most of you, aside from the Wanderers who were able to dig it up. Worth noting this version of the PowerPoint did not have “The Original 6” slide.

 

He started by praising the work Paul has done in getting this league together and with TFC when they were struggling mightily on the pitch. Paul, behind the scenes, made sure the team stayed afloat.

 

S|E|A has been working on this for 6 months. They met with Paul who sold them on the idea of Halifax becoming a part of this league. They’ve been encouraged by the Wanderers SG propping up organically on it’s own, with no instruction from anybody.

 

Derek was bothered by Halifax’s lack of an outdoor sports facility. Wanderers Ground is the absolute perfect site. It’s in the centre of Halifax and will be the heartbeat of this city. It’s the perfect site so that we can hit the pubs downtown before the game, then march up Sackville Street to the grounds. As the Scotiabank Centre (home of the Halifax Mooseheads) has demonstrated, these sports venues are good for downtown.

 

Halifax is undergoing a monumental shift in development. We don’t have an outdoor version of the Scotiabank Centre. This new stadium will be a gathering place for sports and entertainment in the city. S|E|A is not changing the use of the grounds, they are bringing it back to what it was. And having a stadium located in the heart of downtown is exactly where it needs to be to be viable. MLS initially tried putting their franchise stadiums in suburbia and this proved to be the wrong approach.

 

The popularity of soccer in Canada and North America has never been bigger and will only keep growing. As demonstrated in the fall, the MLS Cup sold out in 5 minutes, the Grey Cup had tickets available at the door on game day. Those events were held in the same stadium, just a week apart.

 

He praised the Mooseheads “they have done an amazing job”. They are excellently marketed and routinely get big crowds even when the team is having a down year on the ice.  However, their season runs from September to April. There is a void in this city when it comes to sports and entertainment from May to September.

 

The way the CPL will be doing it’s business is smart. Expecting to fill 15-20k seat stadiums is not realistic, especially for a medium sized marked like Halifax. This has always been the issue with getting a CFL team in the city. The plan set forth by the CPL sees having 3-4k seats filled will make it financially viable. Keeping ticket prices low is also a priority. Price ranges for Halifax will be 10$ on the lower end and 35$ on the upper end.

 

This stadium will not only be for soccer however the soccer team will be kept at the pinnacle. S|E|A will assume the costs for 3 years with a possible 3 year extension. They will be offering sponsorship opportunities for the structure on Wanderers Ground. “We will be blank Stadium on Wanderers Ground” blank referring to a yet to be determined sponsor.

 

They have been using the Phoenix Rising FC stadium as an example but the model they are following the closest is the one in Charlotte, NC. The Charlotte Independence plays it’s games at the Mecklenburg County Sportsplex. S|E|A has experience with temporary venues. They hosted Sandjam. A beach volley ball tournament and were able to set up a 2000 seat grandstand in two days and tear it down in 1. The stadium at Wanderers Ground doesn’t have to be perfect in all aspects, but the most important detail is they want the fan experience to be top notch.

 

The PowerPoint had a new rendering of the stadium, as now seen on hfxfootballclub.ca

East end will be supporters section, which will be general admission standing. We’ll have our own entrance and access to it before games to set up and “do our thing”. West end will be beer garden based on shipping containers as we have already seen in this city. Cheapest tickets will be for that section (10$). North and South ends will consist of two 2500 seat grandstands with 15 rows each. Stadium will remain below the tree line. VIP section is planned and will be placed at yet to be determined area.

 

It was very important that they get support from the Province. They will work with Soccer Nova Scotia. “It would be stupid if we don’t work with them”. Rugby Nova Scotia is on board as well and this stadium will be a great benefit to them.

 

They used the Wanderers Supporters Group in their presentation to show council that support already exists for a stadium and a team, long before both are even in existence.

 

The city has agreed to fix and resurface Wanderers Ground regardless if S|E|A gets ok to build stadium.

 

At this point Derek was done going through the PowerPoint presentation. He and Paul now opened up the floor for a Q&A.

 

Q&A

 

Q – When will season tickets be available and what prices can we expect?

 

Derek – “We don’t know how many games we’re playing at this point”. Season ticket prices will mostly likely be determined by number of games times single-game seat price, minus a discount of 20-25% (Paul Beirne indicated that he thinks that discount is too deep).

 

Q – When can we expect to hear any official announcement regarding the formation of this league?

 

Paul – The annual general meeting for the CSA is in May. That’s the only time you can accept a new member league.

 

Q – Where do you intend to draw players from for league startup?

 

Paul – The composition of this league will be different in the first year, the 5th and the 10th. Initially they’ll have to depend more on import players but they do intend on having a max allotment of import players. The number is flexible. 50% was a number floated out there. The league will have to balance salary, quality and development. They don’t intend on attracting 3rd division players in Europe and South America because they won’t be high enough quality for the expected level of play. They will be targeting 1st and 2nd division players, especially Canadians who will now have a chance to blossom and develop in their own backyard.

 

The intended composition of the league will be drawn from existing Canadian pros playing in other leagues, high performance youth playing in Canada and the US and international players. Paul stated that from his experience, the best value for the dollar comes from South and Central American players. The league will have to balance developing players and ensuring a high quality performance on the pitch. Ultimately, long-term goal is to have teams developing high performance players from their own communities.

 

Q – When is this league starting and how many teams there be? Can you name the other markets?

 

Paul – It will start when it’s ready. No less than 6 teams at launch of league. Aspiration is to have 16 teams in 10 years.

 

Q – What will be the targeted age bracket for Canadian players?

 

Derek – We can’t answer that because at this point, we’re businessmen pitching a stadium, then working to get a team together. When the time comes, we’ll bring on technical staff and soccer experts to put this team together.

 

Q – What is your take on Bill Manning’s comments?

 

Paul – Paul and Bill are friends. It’s Paul’s intention to coexist with MLS. The CPL will not be a development league for MLS (everyone clapped). At this point, MLS teams are becoming financially viable and have many resources at their disposal. The goal is for the CPL to be seen as an equal to MLS and other div 1 leagues in Europe. Smaller countries have very successful domestic leagues and national teams, why can’t we? He acknowledged that MLS does not necessarily care about developing Canadian players, CPL will.

 

Q – What type of turf will the stadium use for it’s pitch? Astroturf is not the solution and natural turf is not suitable for this climate. Synthetic hybrid would be way to go.

 

Derek – Disagrees. His intention is to have natural grass.
 

Paul – Natural grass is doable in this climate and preferred. You can spend a lot of money on turf and making it work. It is a source of pride to have a natural turf. Even the supporters can use it as fodder against opposing supporters “we have natural turf and you guys don’t”.

 

Q – Will this be a cap league and are S|E|A prepared to spend up to that cap ceiling?

 

Derek – Yes and yes.
 

Paul – Jokes that he could go on for 20 minutes about the subject but Derek answered it fittingly.

 

Q – Will supporters be permitted to drink alcohol at the stadium, use smoke bombs and flairs?

 

Derek – Absolutely you’ll be allowed to drink in the stadium. Not sure about the other two. Will look into it.

Paul – Flares are out—they burn too hot; they are dangerous.  On smoke bombs he half-jokes that we need a different name for them. When using them, safety is paramount. They want to make sure they’re not toxic so the league/teams will be vetting which smoke devices can be used. He adds that whatever the league approves could always be over-ridden by the fire marshal. Tongue in cheek, he says he can’t control what we do outside the stadium.

 

Q – What corporate investment and marketing opportunities are going to be available and do you have any established already?

 

Derek – We’re working on it. First we need to have approval to put up a stadium. Opportunities will absolutely be available. They will have food deals, beer deals. Stadium naming rights.

 

That was the end of the Q+A session. We were able to mingle and shoot the breeze. It was mentioned in conversation that the AGM for the CSA would be on May 6th.

 

So that’s the meeting in a nutshell. A lot of it was Halifax centric (obviously) but S|E|A’s immediate goal is to have the stadium approved by council (looking very positive) and then they move onto forming a team for the league. Very little CPL specific info was made available.

[Ansem]

7 minutes ago, DigzTFC said:

The plan set forth by the CPL sees having 3-4k seats filled will make it financially viable.

It's obvious that just like other major leagues, CPL won't be heavily dependant on tickets. Soccer being what it is internationally, CPL securing TV contracts here and overseas is very likely. I think the 3-4k number is a very conservative projection and it's wise to base your projections on such low numbers. Some locations will have those numbers (especially days where there's heavy rain in a stadium with no roof). The key will be at term for all teams to have SSS to maximize revenues potential. As I've demonstrated numerous time, Denmark and Swedish leagues have an average of 7k to 9k on average in attendance, there's no reason for Canada not to be similar AND have quality on the pitch.

32 minutes ago, DigzTFC said:

Q – When can we expect to hear any official announcement regarding the formation of this league?

 

Paul – The annual general meeting for the CSA is in May. That’s the only time you can accept a new member league.

I think that's crystal clear!

 

23 minutes ago, DigzTFC said:

He hates comparing Canada to the US but in this case it’s hard not to do so. The US had to build up a feasible league in a short amount of time. That league is MLS. There were hiccups. They launched the league, it almost failed so they reorganized the business structure and made it work. They now have a blueprint on how to build a successful league in North America. It’s now time to adapt those lessons to a Canadian league. They can look back on 20 years of the MLS and see what worked, what didn’t.

I like how they emphasis on taking what worked for MLS (business model is vital in a North American context) and they will avoid what doesn't work so well for them like putting stadiums in suburban areas instead of downtown as pointed in the article.

 

10 minutes ago, DigzTFC said:

No less than 6 teams at launch of league. Aspiration is to have 16 teams in 10 years.

I thinks at least 1 team per province perhaps except the territories and PEI. I think CPL will be in the major 3 markets as well. My prediction:

• Toronto
• Montreal
• Vancouver
• Ottawa
• Calgary
• Edmonton
• Regina
• Winnipeg
• Victoria
• Quebec City
• Moncton
• Halifax
• Saskatoon
• Kitchener-Waterloo
• Hamilton
• London

11 minutes ago, DigzTFC said:

It’s Paul’s intention to coexist with MLS. The CPL will not be a development league for MLS (everyone clapped). At this point, MLS teams are becoming financially viable and have many resources at their disposal. The goal is for the CPL to be seen as an equal to MLS and other div 1 leagues in Europe. Smaller countries have very successful domestic leagues and national teams, why can’t we? He acknowledged that MLS does not necessarily care about developing Canadian players, CPL will.

Just like Sweden and Denmark have successful leagues, so can we. So CPL will indeed be a Canadian Division 1 league within CONCACAF. The nonsense of relying on the USSF will be over!!! No TFC 2, no USL teams.

Now time to speculate how Montagliani will revamp the CCL to grant the CPL Champion a spot in the Champions League. Canada deserve 2 spots as of 2019 when the league gets at least 8 teams.

12 minutes ago, DigzTFC said:

Natural grass is doable in this climate and preferred. You can spend a lot of money on turf and making it work. It is a source of pride to have a natural turf.

I think in the long term, the league might do what MLS is doing. Future bids might have to include a SSS.

12 minutes ago, DigzTFC said:

Will this be a cap league and are S|E|A prepared to spend up to that cap ceiling?

Derek – Yes and yes.

 

[-Hammer-]

10 hours ago, BuzzAndSting said:

It's staggering to me that there are so called Canadian soccer fans who talk about how long they've been a fan and then shit on the CPL at every opportunity. This is despite the fact that this is more credible than ever, with credible soccer people involved, credible promotors involved and credible business people involved. What's the end game? Come back here in 5 or 10 years and say "I told you so!" If it doesn't work? Okay great, point taken, now move on.

The only argument which I can find, is there is a concern that if a league starts up, and fails or dies a slow death, it sets back the game as a whole in the country. Basically, people who used to be fans, stop being fans because ownership didn't pay up to keep their team working-treat the sport right. This in turn means a long period of time (spanning generations) before you can try again.

In my eyes though, because we have MLS and if this league fails, it's not likely to take the MLS teams down with it, I think this is an entirely ridiculous argument to make. The literally worse case scenario is that we end up where we were, maybe 5 years ago, which while yes that will suck for some local locations, it's doubtful that it is going to salt the earth to the degree that when MLS or international Soccer produces those rare events that draw interest in the game locally, won't be able to regain ground.

[Yohan]

2 hours ago, BCM1555362349 said:

Don't mean to be arrogant but come on...

My statement comes from having played in the NCAAs and when looking to transfer actually had a coach from an Ontario university say to me, and I do quote, "you know we really just play for fun here, it's not serious".  I too played with Canadian uni kids in the summer. Now that was a long time ago, but you get the point.

My statement also comes from watching a few matches - involving Western, McMaster, Guelph, Carleton, U of T and even York few matches in 2013, 2014 and 2015. I found it brutal, the stuff of kick and chase... York was by far the most talented, but let's be honest it was only due to about 3-5 players far superior to any other on the field. The weaker players in the starting 11 weren't of any decent standard. 

You've named a few CIS players - but really, for every CIS (CCAA, etc) player that makes it as a pro how many NCAA players are there? I mean come on, while Smits and Farango have "made it" as pros how many keepers who attended the NCAAs in the same years did so? We can even limit it to Canadian keepers if you want!

Why do our youth teams always feature an NCAA player or two but never CIS? And of course, why does our national team have NCAA players but rarely if ever a CIS player? Why even do most Canadian academy kids go to the US?

There are quite a few Canadians playing in the USL for American teams - how many played in NCAAs and how many at a Canadian university? Why? What makes for the "lack of opportunity" you point to - it's not based on nationality and quite a few USL teams even have open tryouts.   So what accounts for this massive difference...

I am not saying the CIS is terrible and there are no good players - of course not! But given a choice most of the top players that can go down south do so. Those who stay (that I am aware of) do so for family reasons not sporting reasons.

I am also not saying the NCAAs is great - far from it. More and more academy players will rise up (although a lot play NCAA) and unless the NCAAs change things they will increasingly become less relevant. But don't confuse a waning draft and rise of academies as making your point - again, most academy kids play in the NCAAs but just are not illegible for the draft. Moreover, foreign or American, those top 5 picks usually went to US schools. Would love it if one eventually comes from a Canadian school, but again you get my point.

- and it's "you're" not "your" -- I hope you didn't go to a Canadian uni!

Canadian schools will take soccer more seriously if CPL turns out to be a stable and viable league for Canadian uni players to go pro after finishing uni. Because if there is a demand, perhaps slowly, but surely, the mentality of schools will change. Schools love PR. Having professional soccer players graduate from a school is good PR. Maybe not a significant PR, but schools love getting PR and other possible benefits. So maybe they'll increase funding for their soccer programs.

Without MLS, would NCAA schools devout money to serious soccer programs?

 

[Kent]

12 hours ago, nolbertos said:

Heard the CPL launch date change as often as one changes underwears.

Yup, every few months sounds about right. The analogy works.

[Ansem]

22 minutes ago, Yohan said:

Canadian schools will take soccer more seriously if CPL turns out to be a stable and viable league for Canadian uni players to go pro after finishing uni. Because if there is a demand, perhaps slowly, but surely, the mentality of schools will change. Schools love PR. Having professional soccer players graduate from a school is good PR. Maybe not a significant PR, but schools love getting PR and other possible benefits. So maybe they'll increase funding for their soccer programs.

Without MLS, would NCAA schools devout money to serious soccer programs?

 

Exactly, CIS will most likely completely revamp their entire soccer program so they can help contribute to get players into D3 then potentially CPL. It's good for them as if they raise their quality of play, that would help CIS attract more local viewership, fans and sponsorship. There was no incentive to do so before as MLS ignored them and there was no viable league.

CPL is a game changer in that regard and we already have an extensive relatively well organized University system. All it needs is much needed polishing in terms of coaching and training.

CIS network?

U Sports men's soccer:  Universities should partner with the CSA to find ways to upgrade what’s being done at this level with the emphasis on world class coaching and training.  

The season being from Labour day to around December.

 

49 teams divided in 4 conferences: I listed all the teams and divisions below because it’s truly striking how many teams are at that level and quite frankly, not many of us even knew that they all existed.  It’s up to the CSA with the universities to find ways to turn this into a legit elite development tier catching potentially good players from the minor leagues through world class coaching and training.

 

Regular Season:  8 to 9 weeks long starting on Labour Day weekend (12-16 games)

Playoffs: inter-conference playoffs competing for the Sam Davidson Memorial Trophy

League Cup: Sam Davidson Memorial Trophy

 

1-Atlantic University Sport :Acadia Axemen, Cape Breton Capers, Dalhousie Tigers, Memorial Sea-Hawks, Moncton Aigles Bleu, Mount Allison Mounties, New Brunswick Varsity Reds, Saint Mary’s Huskies and St. Francis Xavier X-Men

 

2-Canada West Universities Athletic Association

Pacific Division: BC Thunderbirds, BC Okanagan Heat, Fraser Valley Cascades, Nothern BC Timberwolves, Thomson Rivers WolfPack, Trinity Western Spartans, Victoria Vikes

Prairie Division: Alberta Golden Bears, Calgary Dinos, Lethbridge Pronghorns, MacEwan Griffins, Mount Royal Cougars, Saskatchewan Huskies, Winnipeg Wesmern.

 

3-Ontario University Athletics

East Division: Carleton Ravens, Laurentian Voyageurs, Nipissing Lakers, U of Ontario Institute of Technology Ridgebacks, Queen’s Gaels, Royal Military College Paladins, Ryerson Rams, U of T Varsity Blues, Trent Excalibur

West Division:  Algoma Thunderbirds, Brock Badgers, Guelph Gryphons, McMaster Marauders, Waterloo Warriors, Western Ontario Mustangs, Wilfrid Laurier Golden Hawks, Windsor Lancers, York Lions

 

4-Réseau du sport étudiant du Québec

Concordia Stingers, Laval Rouge et Or, McGill Redmen, U of Montreal Carabins, Sherbrooke Vert et Or, UQAM Citadins, Trois-Rivières Patriotes

 

*Quebec’s CEGEPs have their soccer league which cover students between high school and university level.

(Sainte-Foy, Garneau, St-Lambert, Ahuntsic, John Abbott, Vanier, Dawson, Montmorency, Lionel-Groulx)

 

So last year:

http://en.usports.ca/championships/msoc/2016/releases/final

FINAL 2016 men’s soccer championship: Khabra's header earns Alberta Golden Bears fifth national title in 1-0 win over UQAM (Université du Québec à Montréal)

[rob.notenboom]

1 hour ago, -Hammer- said:

The only argument which I can find, is there is a concern that if a league starts up, and fails or dies a slow death, it sets back the game as a whole in the country. Basically, people who used to be fans, stop being fans because ownership didn't pay up to keep their team working-treat the sport right. This in turn means a long period of time (spanning generations) before you can try again.

In my eyes though, because we have MLS and if this league fails, it's not likely to take the MLS teams down with it, I think this is an entirely ridiculous argument to make. The literally worse case scenario is that we end up where we were, maybe 5 years ago, which while yes that will suck for some local locations, it's doubtful that it is going to salt the earth to the degree that when MLS or international Soccer produces those rare events that draw interest in the game locally, won't be able to regain ground.

This is an excellent point, imho. 

[youllneverwalkalone]

I would personally like to avoid signing any CONCACAF players in this league other than Canadians.

[Ansem]

9 minutes ago, youllneverwalkalone said:

I would personally like to avoid signing any CONCACAF players in this league other than Canadians.

Why?

[Shway]

2 hours ago, BCM1555362349 said:

Don't mean to be arrogant but come on...

My statement comes from having played in the NCAAs and when looking to transfer actually had a coach from an Ontario university say to me, and I do quote, "you know we really just play for fun here, it's not serious".  I too played with Canadian uni kids in the summer. Now that was a long time ago, but you get the point.

Yea what school did you play for? Clearly you weren't good enough if that's what you were told, because I've been told, my friends have been told things like "If you don't get the offer that you want down south...you can always stay home and we'll workout a package for you"(breaking the myths that Canadian uni's don't compensate). How long ago did you play, please do not tell me YOU'RE  35+ talking about a long time ago...because no, I do not get YOUR point as time's have drastically changed since then. (i.e young pro's have played 1-2 years a uni, then gone back to the pro game like Michael Cox.) 

My statements come from playing alongside, against some guys who are currently plying their trade in the professional American game, and against guys who have stayed home and play in L1O. Some players who I've thought were better, but just didn't have the path to the opportunity. I.e an adequate CV. 

2 hours ago, BCM said:

My statement also comes from watching a few matches - involving Western, McMaster, Guelph, Carleton, U of T and even York few matches in 2013, 2014 and 2015. I found it brutal, the stuff of kick and chase... York was by far the most talented, but let's be honest it was only due to about 3-5 players far superior to any other on the field. The weaker players in the starting 11 weren't of any decent standard. 

Okayyyyyyy, so if you know.... what you have stated can be seen at a lot of NCAA teams, matter fact any teams. Just the stronger/known NCAA have the be$t recruiting $y$tem$. 

2 hours ago, BCM said:

You've named a few CIS players - but really, for every CIS (CCAA, etc) player that makes it as a pro how many NCAA players are there? I mean come on, while Smits and Farango have "made it" as pros how many keepers who attended the NCAAs in the same years did so? We can even limit it to Canadian keepers if you want!

You've just summed up one of the reasons advocated for the CPL. And I'm talking about comparable CIS/CCAA quality in reference to not having so many US players in the league, that wouldn't make it in the MLS/NASL but sign in the USL. Stay on track. Stay with me...YOU'RE rambling.

2 hours ago, BCM said:

Why do our youth teams always feature an NCAA player or two but never CIS? And of course, why does our national team have NCAA players but rarely if ever a CIS player? Why even do most Canadian academy kids go to the US?

First why...because usually their on a scholarship, and not to many Unis/Colleges in Canada offer full rides.

Second why....same as the first, and it comes down to one conversation, thats sounds like this "we're offering you a $80,000 worth scholarship".

Third why....shit I've answered the same question, three times. Stay with me, YOU'RE still rambling. 

2 hours ago, BCM said:

There are quite a few Canadians playing in the USL for American teams - how many played in NCAAs and how many at a Canadian university? Why? What makes for the "lack of opportunity" you point to - it's not based on nationality and quite a few USL teams even have open tryouts.   So what accounts for this massive difference...

YOU'RE correct, there are more Canadians that have went to the NCAA over a Canadian school that play in the USL, but not a drastic disproportion (the number would be interesting). Why? Stated above, and it correlates with the American pyramid (go to school > possibly get drafted >MLS team didn't sign you?>USL. Lack of opportunity, so maybe you have been following the whole domestic rule thing...but Canadians have now be considered as domestics in the USL & NASL. Meaning that they were considered international players previously, meaning that they would be going up against the other internationals from England, Mexico, Colombia, Brazil, the continent of Africa who all superior footballing nations then Canada. So lets just say its the national stigma.

Oh yea and open tryouts? Really....those are marketing ploys that gain money for teams. How many teams actually sign open tryout players.

2 hours ago, BCM said:

I am not saying the CIS is terrible and there are no good players - of course not! But given a choice most of the top players that can go down south do so. Those who stay (that I am aware of) do so for family reasons not sporting reasons.

It's not the choice, but ability, the eligibility,  the education reasons like not passing the SAT, not having the adequate grades and don't want to have to go the 2 year JuCo route? I know some young guys who have options and want to stay to be able to play/train to prepare to go abroad. (Just look at the MOACA list, and tell me none of those kids had offers to go to promised land). Also, some players I know simply just didn't want to go the states.

2 hours ago, BCM said:

I am also not saying the NCAAs is great - far from it. More and more academy players will rise up (although a lot play NCAA) and unless the NCAAs change things they will increasingly become less relevant. But don't confuse a waning draft and rise of academies as making your point - again, most academy kids play in the NCAAs but just are not illegible for the draft. Moreover, foreign or American, those top 5 picks usually went to US schools. Would love it if one eventually comes from a Canadian school, but again you get my point.

Systems, systems, systems. Right now there is nothing in place to allow Canadians from the CIS/CCAA to get the opportunity to show out in the combine. Why's that? Because they will instantly realize there are more Adonijah Reids, and Shamit Shomes and the MLS/USSF has done a great job of putting up rules and parameters to limit Canadian influence, and first and always foremost put Americans first. 

2 hours ago, BCM said:

- and it's "you're" not "your" -- I hope you didn't go to a Canadian uni!

How did I do professor? I couldn't capture/understand/follow/relate to all your note's but I felt I answered all your questions.

Please give me at least a 90! 

 

 

 

[Complete Homer]

9 minutes ago, youllneverwalkalone said:

I would personally like to avoid signing any CONCACAF players in this league other than Canadians.

I get where you're coming from, but imagine you are a manager. You have to build a decent roster in 4 months at a weird time (half season starting in August). You have a domestic player pool <400 players, most of which are at levels below the league's aspirations, and most of those at the league's level are signed or are uninterested in betting their career on a new league. 

You have no real transfer budget and a minimal scouting budget

Where are you getting players? Realistically, I think you are grabbing a few Canadians at USL/NASL level, a couple playing overseas in lower leagues, maybe grab one CMNTer out of contract, and a couple promising pro-am players. Maybe you get half your XI and some subs out of that, if  you are lucky. 

Then? You're looking for players playing at levels that are easy to translate into a CPL context, as you have neither the time or money to scout extensively. To me, that means a lot of Americans who can't catch on in MLS, CONCACAF players playing in nearby leagues, and a couple Europeans signed more on resume than scouting.

Things will definitely change in time, but I think the opening rosters for most teams will be pretty patchy and international. 

[dyslexic nam]

 

11 minutes ago, Ansem said:

21 minutes ago, youllneverwalkalone said:

I would personally like to avoid signing any CONCACAF players in this league other than Canadians.

Why?

 

Presumably so that we don't facilitate the player development of any other competing countries, but it will never happen.  At some point, we will need to reconcile the need for a strong developmental pathway for Canadians with the need for a competitive on-field product sufficient to sustain  a strong fanbase and which won't be possible solely (or predominantly) through a Canadian-only player pool.