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Oh brother, where do I start….so many fallacies and straw men. You've almost made it too easy for me.

 

Your argument is jumbled and inconsistent. On the one hand, you lament that a lot of kids that are good enough don't get opportunities to play in NCAA and therefore aren't recognized and don't advance, but on the other hand point out a handful of examples among “many others”of successful stay at home kids -- thereby undercutting your first point. If they are good enough, they'll be seen (esp in a city or near a Canadian mls team).

 

19 hours ago, Jahinho Guerro said:

How did I do professor? I couldn't capture/understand/follow/relate to all your note's but I felt I answered all your questions.

Please give me at least a 90!

 

Funnily enough, I am a professor. We actually don't deviate as much as we're making out, so I'll give you a B-. Should be a C but I know the entitled generation can't take such low marks… Besides, now you misuse "their" (it should be they're)... Those pesky contractions. Oi veh!

19 hours ago, Jahinho Guerro said:

First why...because usually their on a scholarship, and not to many Unis/Colleges in Canada offer full rides....

 

19 hours ago, Jahinho Guerro said:

Yea what school did you play for? Clearly you weren't good enough if that's what you were told, because I've been told, my friends have been told things like "If you don't get the offer that you want down south...you can always stay home and we'll workout a package for you"(breaking the myths that Canadian uni's don't compensate). How long ago did you play, please do not tell me YOU'RE  35+ talking about a long time ago...

 

Try again. At that time I was playing at Ohio State, and already an U-17 international for Northern Ireland. I ended up transferring to a small, but better, school and becoming an U-19 international. You really think I wasn't good enough for CIS?

 

Oh, and I also briefly played semi-professionally in the US before joining DFAIT (that's our now-renamed diplomatic core, if you didn't know) and at the same time playing in the Swedish fourth division when posted in Stockholm. I subsequently played in Australia in the NSW state league. If you needed more, I have been a graduate assistant coach, volunteer assistant, helped train elite prospects (including TFCs Mark Pais) and currently assist the Hong Kong federation in navigating FIFA and confederation rules.

 

So is this CV good enough for you? You still want to step up to the mic and battle, kid?

 

19 hours ago, Jahinho Guerro said:

My statements come from playing alongside, against some guys who are currently plying their trade in the professional American game, and against guys who have stayed home and play in L1O. Some players who I've thought were better, but just didn't have the path to the opportunity. I.e an adequate CV.


Remember skill is not enough - desire, team and positional awareness etc. The kids who can juggle 2000 times may not be a great player, but he's probably impress you, eh... Just saying - yeah in a tongue and cheek way - that maybe you don't look at a player the same way a coach/scout does. 

 

But look Jahinho, in all seriousness I agree with you - some kids are overlooked. Scouting soccer in NA is not a science, and a lot of kids get overlooked. A lot of kids could play at a higher level.


So yeah, I'm over 35 and I also clearly understand things have moved on in the Canadian university scene - it's better than it was, and taken more seriously. But again, I've attended recent CIS matches and seen the quality on offer. 

 

Let's face it, if there is talent there will be scouts. This is where you confuse your own argument - again, are Canadian kids systematically overlooked but at the same time you point to the abundance of talent in the Canadian unis - you point to Babouli (although not sure why you did as he too briefly played US college ball) and others. But if this is the case it begs the question of why have so few emerged as pros? It's not solely "domestic" rules. By the way, USL has treated Cnd as domestic for some time, it's NASL that only changed this year. So why hasn't the USL been full of these guys? 

 

And of course, by emerged I mean professionally but also on Canadian youth national teams...Your straw man falls apart when even the CSA doesn't give “opportunities” to local university kids. Our teams always feature US college kids, but almost never local university kids. The only recent exception I recall is Chris Serban, who featured in a youth team prior to signing a pro contract. Again, why? You can't seriously be arguing the numbers here?

 

Quality players in L1O and Canadian uni kids will and often do get noticed if they're good enough. I just started a thread about one such player who recently signed with Rochester. Of course, he played four years in the NCAAs prior to L1O. Same is true of lower level US soccer. I can point to a Canadian, Amer Didic - how many scouts do you think normally attend Baker University (naia) matches?

 

Not sure why the $$$$ signs - you must be aware that NCAA soccer is a total money loser, and most programs exist on a shoestring budget - bus travel and definitely not chartered flights. This is not basketball or football! It's not a revenue sport. Few schools give any full scholarships as NCAA limits total scholarships to around 6 (you can check the most recent figures) - most players receive 1/4 or 1/2 scholarships. Thanks gender equity! It doesn't seem that you actually know or understand the rules and constraints. 

 

Finally, don't confuse price of an education with "value" or quality - some of our current/recent players have gone to South Alabama, Mobile and of course Baker University. None of these compare to the quality if a Canadian education, but all are significantly more expensive. Wikipedia says tuition at Baker University was UDS 26,370 in 2015 - you think that scholarship is more valuable than any Canadian university education?

It's pretty clear and unarguable that the standard in NCAA is better and deeper than in Canadian unis. To argue otherwise is simply bizarre. I agree with the other posters who see the CPL as a way to enhance the Canadian soccer scene at the university level, and I hope the CSA promotes this as well. The CPL will give opportunities to Canadian university players, and it(we) need those universities to step up (ie better coaching, facilities, longer season, etc. )

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I'm not not going to argue that CIS is better than NCAA, what I will argue is that there are 49 CIS teams and about 900 players in CIS.  

From that talent pool the top 2% must be good enough to look at you would think.  The cream of the crop. That means that there should be at least 18 players who should be expanding our player pool or about 4-5 players per year.

Its about scouting those 4-5 players per year and getting them identified and signed.

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3 hours ago, baulderdash77 said:

I'm not not going to argue that CIS is better than NCAA, what I will argue is that there are 49 CIS teams and about 900 players in CIS.  

From that talent pool the top 2% must be good enough to look at you would think.  The cream of the crop. That means that there should be at least 18 players who should be expanding our player pool or about 4-5 players per year.

Its about scouting those 4-5 players per year and getting them identified and signed.

I like the reasoning behind this.  But judging from the % of NCAA kids who are actually are good enough to expand anyone's player pool, maybe 1-2 CIS kids a year would be more reasonable.  Off the top of my head, Telfer and Zator have both jumped to USL this year.  

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Zator was a 2nd team CIS All Canadian last year and he's in the USL.  Teller was 2nd team OUA in 2016 and didn't make the CIS All Canadian 1st or 2nd team and he's in the USL.

What about the other 21 players who made the CIS All Canadian team last year?  I'm sure from that group there are a couple who could make the leap.

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For a CPL start up level of play, probably more than 4-5 CIS kids could make that jump every year.  Maybe twice that number of kids fill the back end of CPL roster for the first few years.  But you know what they say, you have to pan a lot of dirt for each nugget.  

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6 hours ago, BCM1555362349 said:

Oh brother, where do I start….so many fallacies and straw men. You've almost made it too easy for me.

 

Your argument is jumbled and inconsistent. On the one hand, you lament that a lot of kids that are good enough don't get opportunities to play in NCAA and therefore aren't recognized and don't advance, but on the other hand point out a handful of examples among “many others”of successful stay at home kids -- thereby undercutting your first point. If they are good enough, they'll be seen (esp in a city or near a Canadian mls team).

 

 

Funnily enough, I am a professor. We actually don't deviate as much as we're making out, so I'll give you a B-. Should be a C but I know the entitled generation can't take such low marks… Besides, now you misuse "their" (it should be they're)... Those pesky contractions. Oi veh!

 

 

Try again. At that time I was playing at Ohio State, and already an U-17 international for Northern Ireland. I ended up transferring to a small, but better, school and becoming an U-19 international. You really think I wasn't good enough for CIS?

 

Oh, and I also briefly played semi-professionally in the US before joining DFAIT (that's our now-renamed diplomatic core, if you didn't know) and at the same time playing in the Swedish fourth division when posted in Stockholm. I subsequently played in Australia in the NSW state league. If you needed more, I have been a graduate assistant coach, volunteer assistant, helped train elite prospects (including TFCs Mark Pais) and currently assist the Hong Kong federation in navigating FIFA and confederation rules.

 

So is this CV good enough for you? You still want to step up to the mic and battle, kid?

 


Remember skill is not enough - desire, team and positional awareness etc. The kids who can juggle 2000 times may not be a great player, but he's probably impress you, eh... Just saying - yeah in a tongue and cheek way - that maybe you don't look at a player the same way a coach/scout does. 

 

But look Jahinho, in all seriousness I agree with you - some kids are overlooked. Scouting soccer in NA is not a science, and a lot of kids get overlooked. A lot of kids could play at a higher level.


So yeah, I'm over 35 and I also clearly understand things have moved on in the Canadian university scene - it's better than it was, and taken more seriously. But again, I've attended recent CIS matches and seen the quality on offer. 

 

Let's face it, if there is talent there will be scouts. This is where you confuse your own argument - again, are Canadian kids systematically overlooked but at the same time you point to the abundance of talent in the Canadian unis - you point to Babouli (although not sure why you did as he too briefly played US college ball) and others. But if this is the case it begs the question of why have so few emerged as pros? It's not solely "domestic" rules. By the way, USL has treated Cnd as domestic for some time, it's NASL that only changed this year. So why hasn't the USL been full of these guys? 

 

And of course, by emerged I mean professionally but also on Canadian youth national teams...Your straw man falls apart when even the CSA doesn't give “opportunities” to local university kids. Our teams always feature US college kids, but almost never local university kids. The only recent exception I recall is Chris Serban, who featured in a youth team prior to signing a pro contract. Again, why? You can't seriously be arguing the numbers here?

 

Quality players in L1O and Canadian uni kids will and often do get noticed if they're good enough. I just started a thread about one such player who recently signed with Rochester. Of course, he played four years in the NCAAs prior to L1O. Same is true of lower level US soccer. I can point to a Canadian, Amer Didic - how many scouts do you think normally attend Baker University (naia) matches?

 

Not sure why the $$$$ signs - you must be aware that NCAA soccer is a total money loser, and most programs exist on a shoestring budget - bus travel and definitely not chartered flights. This is not basketball or football! It's not a revenue sport. Few schools give any full scholarships as NCAA limits total scholarships to around 6 (you can check the most recent figures) - most players receive 1/4 or 1/2 scholarships. Thanks gender equity! It doesn't seem that you actually know or understand the rules and constraints. 

 

Finally, don't confuse price of an education with "value" or quality - some of our current/recent players have gone to South Alabama, Mobile and of course Baker University. None of these compare to the quality if a Canadian education, but all are significantly more expensive. Wikipedia says tuition at Baker University was UDS 26,370 in 2015 - you think that scholarship is more valuable than any Canadian university education?

It's pretty clear and unarguable that the standard in NCAA is better and deeper than in Canadian unis. To argue otherwise is simply bizarre. I agree with the other posters who see the CPL as a way to enhance the Canadian soccer scene at the university level, and I hope the CSA promotes this as well. The CPL will give opportunities to Canadian university players, and it(we) need those universities to step up (ie better coaching, facilities, longer season, etc. )

I'm guessing wherever you are teaching, if at all, you are probably seen as extremely arrogant and unliked by your students and fellow staff members but that's just my opinion. By the way, I'm giving myself an A+.

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6 hours ago, BCM1555362349 said:

Oh brother, where do I start….so many fallacies and straw men. You've almost made it too easy for me.

 

Your argument is jumbled and inconsistent. On the one hand, you lament that a lot of kids that are good enough don't get opportunities to play in NCAA and therefore aren't recognized and don't advance, but on the other hand point out a handful of examples among “many others”of successful stay at home kids -- thereby undercutting your first point. If they are good enough, they'll be seen (esp in a city or near a Canadian mls team).

 

 

Funnily enough, I am a professor. We actually don't deviate as much as we're making out, so I'll give you a B-. Should be a C but I know the entitled generation can't take such low marks… Besides, now you misuse "their" (it should be they're)... Those pesky contractions. Oi veh!

 

 

Try again. At that time I was playing at Ohio State, and already an U-17 international for Northern Ireland. I ended up transferring to a small, but better, school and becoming an U-19 international. You really think I wasn't good enough for CIS?

 

Oh, and I also briefly played semi-professionally in the US before joining DFAIT (that's our now-renamed diplomatic core, if you didn't know) and at the same time playing in the Swedish fourth division when posted in Stockholm. I subsequently played in Australia in the NSW state league. If you needed more, I have been a graduate assistant coach, volunteer assistant, helped train elite prospects (including TFCs Mark Pais) and currently assist the Hong Kong federation in navigating FIFA and confederation rules.

 

So is this CV good enough for you? You still want to step up to the mic and battle, kid?

 


Remember skill is not enough - desire, team and positional awareness etc. The kids who can juggle 2000 times may not be a great player, but he's probably impress you, eh... Just saying - yeah in a tongue and cheek way - that maybe you don't look at a player the same way a coach/scout does. 

 

But look Jahinho, in all seriousness I agree with you - some kids are overlooked. Scouting soccer in NA is not a science, and a lot of kids get overlooked. A lot of kids could play at a higher level.


So yeah, I'm over 35 and I also clearly understand things have moved on in the Canadian university scene - it's better than it was, and taken more seriously. But again, I've attended recent CIS matches and seen the quality on offer. 

 

Let's face it, if there is talent there will be scouts. This is where you confuse your own argument - again, are Canadian kids systematically overlooked but at the same time you point to the abundance of talent in the Canadian unis - you point to Babouli (although not sure why you did as he too briefly played US college ball) and others. But if this is the case it begs the question of why have so few emerged as pros? It's not solely "domestic" rules. By the way, USL has treated Cnd as domestic for some time, it's NASL that only changed this year. So why hasn't the USL been full of these guys? 

 

And of course, by emerged I mean professionally but also on Canadian youth national teams...Your straw man falls apart when even the CSA doesn't give “opportunities” to local university kids. Our teams always feature US college kids, but almost never local university kids. The only recent exception I recall is Chris Serban, who featured in a youth team prior to signing a pro contract. Again, why? You can't seriously be arguing the numbers here?

 

Quality players in L1O and Canadian uni kids will and often do get noticed if they're good enough. I just started a thread about one such player who recently signed with Rochester. Of course, he played four years in the NCAAs prior to L1O. Same is true of lower level US soccer. I can point to a Canadian, Amer Didic - how many scouts do you think normally attend Baker University (naia) matches?

 

Not sure why the $$$$ signs - you must be aware that NCAA soccer is a total money loser, and most programs exist on a shoestring budget - bus travel and definitely not chartered flights. This is not basketball or football! It's not a revenue sport. Few schools give any full scholarships as NCAA limits total scholarships to around 6 (you can check the most recent figures) - most players receive 1/4 or 1/2 scholarships. Thanks gender equity! It doesn't seem that you actually know or understand the rules and constraints. 

 

Finally, don't confuse price of an education with "value" or quality - some of our current/recent players have gone to South Alabama, Mobile and of course Baker University. None of these compare to the quality if a Canadian education, but all are significantly more expensive. Wikipedia says tuition at Baker University was UDS 26,370 in 2015 - you think that scholarship is more valuable than any Canadian university education?

It's pretty clear and unarguable that the standard in NCAA is better and deeper than in Canadian unis. To argue otherwise is simply bizarre. I agree with the other posters who see the CPL as a way to enhance the Canadian soccer scene at the university level, and I hope the CSA promotes this as well. The CPL will give opportunities to Canadian university players, and it(we) need those universities to step up (ie better coaching, facilities, longer season, etc. )

Based on what you've said, all I'll say is that you seem, and sound very disconnected to the actually happenings of what has been taking place in recent times. And it's understandable, as you (work) far away, and your personal experiences as a player from when you were 17, have drastically changed to a player today who is 17. 

You seem to undermine or discredit the opprtunity aspect, and the value of certain said opprtunities. But I've had personal conversations with people who are immersed in Canada/Ontario soccer like Patrick Tobo who is family to me(former U17 coach, now with U18), Bobby (from Sigma) and Carmine and Patrice(from York/Vaughan), and the general consesus is a lack of true opportunity.

It so easy to say "the best players will get scouted"...when we know that not even some MLS teams have scouting departments. So yes there will be 2 who get that special opprtunity, but like baulderdash said above what about the other 21?

I also realize you can't debate with a professor, cause they're always right!?

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Don't be fooled by just CIS soccer some very good players at the Canadian college level. Toronto's Humber College Hawks who keep winning national championships like it was nothing would probably be in contention for CIS national championships on a yearly basis they went undefeated this year winning every game they played right to the national championship game 16 wins no ties no losses. These CPL franchises need to also look at head coaches from the CIS and Canadian colleges exspecially the coaches who year in and year out are winning national championships in the CIS and the Canadian College level.    

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10 minutes ago, 1996 said:

Don't be fooled by just CIS soccer some very good players at the Canadian college level. Toronto's Humber College Hawks who keep winning national championships like it was nothing would probably be in contention for CIS national championships on a yearly basis they went undefeated this year winning every game they played right to the national championship game 16 wins no ties no losses. These CPL franchises need to also look at head coaches from the CIS and Canadian colleges exspecially the coaches who year in and year out are winning national championships in the CIS and the Canadian College level.    

Saw them in that college final, it was some good soccer, looked like it rivaled NASL quality, but with more youth. Former Dallas FC "Super draft" pick was on the team, Jaineil Hoilett, Junior Hoiletts brother.

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6 hours ago, longlugan said:

I'm guessing wherever you are teaching, if at all, you are probably seen as extremely arrogant and unliked by your students and fellow staff members but that's just my opinion. By the way, I'm giving myself an A+.

Can't help it, comes with talent. Just kidding, comes (back) with age.

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6 hours ago, Jahinho Guerro said:

Based on what you've said, all I'll say is that you seem, and sound very disconnected to the actually happenings of what has been taking place in recent times. And it's understandable, as you (work) far away, and your personal experiences as a player from when you were 17, have drastically changed to a player today who is 17. 

You seem to undermine or discredit the opprtunity aspect, and the value of certain said opprtunities. But I've had personal conversations with people who are immersed in Canada/Ontario soccer like Patrick Tobo who is family to me(former U17 coach, now with U18), Bobby (from Sigma) and Carmine and Patrice(from York/Vaughan), and the general consesus is a lack of true opportunity.

It so easy to say "the best players will get scouted"...when we know that not even some MLS teams have scouting departments. So yes there will be 2 who get that special opprtunity, but like baulderdash said above what about the other 21?

I also realize you can't debate with a professor, cause they're always right!?

If we got together for a beer or coffee I have no doubt that within ten minutes we'd have agreed on most points and cordially disagreed on some little things, and within twenty minutes would be well on our way to solving all the problems with soccer in Canada.

The more things that change the more they stay the same. There were few opportunities back then (without "contacts") and seems that is still the case. Hopefully the cpl helps change things.

I don't want to hijack the thread so I'll pm you a few stories that will resonate with you, and one that shows how far the CSA has come in the last twenty years.

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9 hours ago, Alex D said:

Realistically there is no shame in scouting college coaches and players in Canada. MLS had similar beginnings.

Just reminded me: who does everyone see coaching year one?

I hope we see yallop, dos santos, marcina, watson and brennan in head coaching roles. While i don't think every coach needs to be canadian, it would be nice to see bunch in roles at any given time

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On 31/03/2017 at 6:54 PM, grasshopper1917 said:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scotia/cbc-nova-scotia-news-march-31-2017-1.4050956

SEA's Derek Martin interview rocking the wanderer scarf at 41:30

Guillermo check out what he says about 'support groups'

Cool, with highlights from the Linx v Squirrels afterwards, and the news lady saying he should keep that design.

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23 minutes ago, Pat Carrasco said:

Another Breaking News coming directly from Anthony Totera. Could it be that both the CSA and MLS will sit down and discuss the CPL.

 

I don't know who this "Boom Sources" guy is but I think his credibility needs to be further examined.

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20 hours ago, matty said:

Just reminded me: who does everyone see coaching year one?

I hope we see yallop, dos santos, marcina, watson and brennan in head coaching roles. While i don't think every coach needs to be canadian, it would be nice to see bunch in roles at any given time

Brennan was the coach of a poor Aurora team in League1 Ontario last year. I would rather they bring in a coach of one of the better teams from L1O. Otherwise your list looks fine. No doubt Dasovic will be trying to elbow his way in there too.

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11 minutes ago, Kent said:

Brennan was the coach of a poor Aurora team in League1 Ontario last year. I would rather they bring in a coach of one of the better teams from L1O. Otherwise your list looks fine. No doubt Dasovic will be trying to elbow his way in there too.

Just listed a handful of coaches off the top of my head. Wasn't putting anyone forward. 

I'd be shocked if Dasovic wasn't a coach year one. Same for Peschisolido. Findlay maybe too if he wants to get better.

There's actually a decent number of Canadian coaches out there who the teams should look into hiring. It would be a good way to present yourself as Canadian in spite of a low level of CanCon on the pitch.

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18 minutes ago, matty said:

Just listed a handful of coaches off the top of my head. Wasn't putting anyone forward. 

I'd be shocked if Dasovic wasn't a coach year one. Same for Peschisolido. Findlay maybe too if he wants to get better.

There's actually a decent number of Canadian coaches out there who the teams should look into hiring. It would be a good way to present yourself as Canadian in spite of a low level of CanCon on the pitch.

I'd be shocked if Peschisolido is managing next year (in Canada). He's married to an English politician/sports executive, I doubt they are going to up and leave England anytime soon

Though, if we are adding to our highly speculative list of EPL teams who could be a hinted investor, Peschisolido's wife is vice-chairman of West Ham. 

35 minutes ago, Kent said:

Brennan was the coach of a poor Aurora team in League1 Ontario last year. I would rather they bring in a coach of one of the better teams from L1O. Otherwise your list looks fine. No doubt Dasovic will be trying to elbow his way in there too.

Not dating Brennan is necessarily going to move up to CPL, but I would say that L1O performance is pretty dependent on the players you can attract, and I'm not sure Aurora is as high up the list as some of the other clubs. I haven't watched too closely, but it's possible he's done fine with what he has had at his disposal 

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31 minutes ago, Complete Homer said:

Though, if we are adding to our highly speculative list of EPL teams who could be a hinted investor, Peschisolido's wife is vice-chairman of West Ham. 

I did not know this. Reading about her now and am blown away that I did not know this. She's a fucking baroness!

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