Scott Arfield

[Obinna]

I doubt we see Arfield again, especially under Biello, but I guess you never know what can happen if a new manager comes in, with new ideas about which players should be in the national team and which shouldn't be.

Arfield is 35 in November, but he's obviously doing well in MLS, a league where a lot of our players play. I don't know how many goals that is for Arfield now with Charlotte, but it feels like at least 4 or 5. How many goals do Osorio and Choniere have? What about Kaye? Piette is a pure 6. Who else do we have as depth in midfield?

As a fan it's not my job to smooth out relationships between players, but just as far as the stats go, and probably the performances tpp (I am just watching highlights for the most part), Arfield is good enough to be part of this pool if he ever wanted to come out of retirement. Players do it all the time. 

Again, I don't expect that to happen, but I see how such a thing may become possible with a new coach and with Arfield playing well. 

[Unnamed Trialist]

7 minutes ago, Obinna said:

I doubt we see Arfield again, especially under Biello, but I guess you never know what can happen if a new manager comes in, with new ideas about which players should be in the national team and which shouldn't be.

Arfield is 35 in November, but he's obviously doing well in MLS, a league where a lot of our players play. I don't know how many goals that is for Arfield now with Charlotte, but it feels like at least 4 or 5. How many goals do Osorio and Choniere have? What about Kaye? Piette is a pure 6. Who else do we have as depth in midfield?

As a fan it's not my job to smooth out relationships between players, but just as far as the stats go, and probably the performances tpp (I am just watching highlights for the most part), Arfield is good enough to be part of this pool if he ever wanted to come out of retirement. Players do it all the time. 

Again, I don't expect that to happen, but I see how such a thing may become possible with a new coach and with Arfield playing well. 

You want a new coach, including an interim coach, to put his stamp on things. If that means redressing a falling out, then so be it. Do it, show some character.

You owe nothing to your predecessor, and in any case, we are into a new cycle entirely.  

I feel like you do, I am not huge on Arfield, but the point is to put the best team on the field, not drag around these shadows and phantom presences on our backs wherever we go.

[Kadenge]

@ObinnaRe midfield depth: add Saliba who seems to have cemented a starting place at the expense of a DP at CFM and its early days but Froese has started ,I believe, every game in B2. Ahmed, although not getting a lot of mins recently for Vancouver, impressed at the GC. Not ranking any players, but that's in addition to the names you mentioned and they are all younger than Scotty. Field the best team yes, but there's 3 yrs to WC so the coaching staff have to be cognizant of that.

[jonovision]

I'd like to see what Froese has to offer, since he's been toiling off the radar for so long. He's younger than guys like Osorio, Kaye, Piette. Same birth year as Eustaquio. I barely remember his Whitecaps days but didn't he mostly play as a CDM at the time?

I'd have nothing against an Arfield return. He has two goals so far in his MLS run, and he's always been good at popping in goals from midfield (although not a whole lot with Canada). I do have concerns about whether he has the legs for certain styles of play.

[DeRo_Is_King]

1 hour ago, Kadenge said:

Field the best team yes, but there's 3 yrs to WC so the coaching staff have to be cognizant of that.

This. I agree with others that Arfield right now is still a top CM for us, but I don't know if he will be in a few years. It might be best to experiment and go through those growing pains now instead of at the WC. 

[Obinna]

29 minutes ago, jonovision said:

I'd like to see what Froese has to offer, since he's been toiling off the radar for so long AND is from Winnipeg. He's younger than guys like Osorio, Kaye, Piette. Same birth year as Eustaquio. I barely remember his Whitecaps days but didn't he mostly play as a CDM at the time?

FYP

In all seriousness though, I would love to see Froese get another chance. He's been grinding for so long and is still very much young enough to be in the mix this cycle should he get a chance and grab it with both hands. 

Whether it's Froese, Arfield, or Saliba, coaching changes can bring with them a reset in the player pool. Looking forward to seeing if and how things get refreshed.  

[Onelessstar]

4 hours ago, DeRo_Is_King said:

This. I agree with others that Arfield right now is still a top CM for us, but I don't know if he will be in a few years. It might be best to experiment and go through those growing pains now instead of at the WC. 

I'm all for regaining some confidence and momentum right now. If Arfield can help do that, I'd like him back in the mix.

[Bigandy]

On 9/3/2023 at 6:54 PM, Onelessstar said:

I'm all for regaining some confidence and momentum right now. If Arfield can help do that, I'd like him back in the mix.

He's retired.... I dont get why people talk as if hes available for selection.  

[Bison44]

Hmmm, how long does it take for the unretire forms to clear FIFA?  6 months??  He better get on that if he decides to come back for a game or two now that the coach that had a problem with him is gone.  Especially since its come out that all the sweet and rosy "run through walls" stuff was exaggerated and there was prob pretty normal division and strife behind the scenes even without the supposed bad apple. 

Seriously, we could still use a player of his quality most camps, even if its just for a 30min cameo to drum up some offense.  But at this point I would rather see a younger guy get his shot (Choiniere etc) and build towards 2026.   

[Bigandy]

16 minutes ago, Bison44 said:

Hmmm, how long does it take for the unretire forms to clear FIFA?  6 months??  He better get on that if he decides to come back for a game or two now that the coach that had a problem with him is gone.  Especially since its come out that all the sweet and rosy "run through walls" stuff was exaggerated and there was prob pretty normal division and strife behind the scenes even without the supposed bad apple. 

Seriously, we could still use a player of his quality most camps, even if its just for a 30min cameo to drum up some offense.  But at this point I would rather see a younger guy get his shot (Choiniere etc) and build towards 2026.   

Why would he want to unretire? He's not going to be around for the WC. He may not even be good to go for Copa. He clearly does not want to play games in central america. What does he get by unretiring? I just dont see what he gets by unretiring.

On the flip side, he still has family, has to care for his body to prolong playing etc which is part of why he retired in the first place. 

[Obinna]

17 minutes ago, Bigandy said:

Why would he want to unretire? He's not going to be around for the WC. He may not even be good to go for Copa. He clearly does not want to play games in central america. What does he get by unretiring? I just dont see what he gets by unretiring.

On the flip side, he still has family, has to care for his body to prolong playing etc which is part of why he retired in the first place. 

It's a fair point. Clearly he was open to a return pre world cup. But that was also the world cup. Even though Copa America is a big tournament it is not the world cup. The Copa may not be big enough pull to return. 

He has to want to return and must also be wanted by Canada, so a lot has to happen obviously, but I think playing for Charlotte could possibly open him up to it. Managing his body and prolonging his career was perhaps more about extending his Rangers career than anything else. Now he's playing in the Americas, with and against players from the Americas - including international players. Maybe he gets the itch to take one more kick of the can? It's less than a year away.

Lastly, considering his little comments and such I don't think we can treat his retirement as firmly shut in the same way Atiba's was. 

 

[Bison44]

I dont know, why does Obinna dream about Piette?  Why does Liam Fraser have the same number of Canada caps as Arfield?? Maybe he want to come back, score in the copa and lift his red jersey to show a F U HERDMAN shirt underneath.   Its a strange world and lots of stuff happens. 

[Fullback]

People here have a strange obsession with an average MLS midfielder that doesn’t want to play for us

[Bigandy]

12 minutes ago, Fullback said:

People here have a strange obsession with an average MLS midfielder that doesn’t want to play for us

Who is also turning 35 soon.... 

[costarg]

1 hour ago, Bigandy said:

Why would he want to unretire? 

It's not so much "why would he want to unretire?"  It's pointing out the massive mistake Herdman made in not calling him to the WC.

I agree, calling him now doesn't help our 2026 WC odds.  It does improve our team for Copa though. 

I have not seen Stache play lately, but reading his thread it would seem Arfield and Choiniere are probably the most in form midfielders at this exact moment.  And Choiniere does not come close to Arfields goal production the past 12 months.

But then again, if you really need to ask that question, you can also just ask google for the reasons all the other tonne of pro-athletes came out of retirement?  Brady and Jordan certainly didn't do it for the money.  Maybe it's competetive spirit?  Maybe cause they love the game?  Maybe to get some closure from Herdman being an absolute ass?  

Edited September 5, 2023 by costarg

[costarg]

44 minutes ago, Fullback said:

People here have a strange obsession with an average MLS midfielder that doesn’t want to play for us

That's misleading.  It's well documented that he was ok with playing, the issue was between him and Herdman.

[Bigandy]

37 minutes ago, costarg said:

It's not so much "why would he want to unretire?"  It's pointing out the massive mistake Herdman made in not calling him to the WC.

I agree, calling him now doesn't help our 2026 WC odds.  It does improve our team for Copa though. 

I have not seen Stache play lately, but reading his thread it would seem Arfield and Choiniere are probably the most in form midfielders at this exact moment.  And Choiniere does not come close to Arfields goal production the past 12 months.

But then again, if you really need to ask that question, you can also just ask google for the reasons all the other tonne of pro-athletes came out of retirement?  Brady and Jordan certainly didn't do it for the money.  Maybe it's competetive spirit?  Maybe cause they love the game?  Maybe to get some closure from Herdman being an absolute ass?  

He will almost be 36 during Copa. We crucified herdman for playing atiba without legs. Theres a very realistic chance arfield wont have the legs either. 

You're oversimplifying coming out of retirement. Arfield doesnt want to play in central america. Look at how hes turned down all invitations to playing in central america except for the very first time he went. Why would someone who doesnt want to go to that environment, step away from the CMNT for years, have strained relationships with other players on the team, all while having his body age, all of the sudden change his mind and want to go to these types of games? Why would he have competitive spirit and love of the game now but not in 2018? 

Its ludicrous to compare arfield to staq. Arfield has been a sub in 4 of his 6 mls appearances. Im not sure how arfield is the most in form midfielder when hes played, 17, 24, 38 minutes in his last 3 mls games. Staq is starting for porto.  

Btw, constantly saying to "google it" instead of providing your own information is such a horrible way of having a discussion. Saying "google it" doesnt prove your right as literally anyone at anytime can say that and then act all arrogant that theyve proven a point that hasnt even been expressed. 

[Olympique_de_Marseille]

44 minutes ago, Bigandy said:

He will almost be 36 during Copa. We crucified herdman for playing atiba without legs. Theres a very realistic chance arfield wont have the legs either. 

So what?

Arfield doesn't need to be a starter and is much younger than 40. If he doesn't have the legs next summer then we just won't play him. But what help does it do to preemptively freeze him out if he wishes to return?

 

Arfield shouldn't play at the 2027 Gold Cup. He won't have the legs. You heard it here first.

Edited September 5, 2023 by Olympique_de_Marseille

[Bison44]

Whats not simple about unretiring.  Biello calls and says, "Hey buddy, Herdmans jumped ship, yeah turns out he didnt care that much about the shirt, HAHAHA, yeah I know, what an blow hard, anyways, water under the bridge no hard feelings... next camp we'd like you to come in as the 23rd guy, mb use you as a 65th min sub if we are down and need some offense, we could use a little spark...sound ok Scotty???""

[Obinna]

3 hours ago, Fullback said:

People here have a strange obsession with an average MLS midfielder that doesn’t want to play for us

Others have a strange obsession with shutting down the idea because of junior tweeting no cap 🧢

And define "average". If Arfield is average he'd be one amongst many other Canadians coming from MLS.

Look, none of this is to say Arfield needs to be called. It's simply acknowledging that last coach refuses to call him and now that coach is gone, so maybe something changes.

Obviously nobody would even entertain the idea if he was stinking up MLS. The fact people are open to it speaks to his goal contributions for Charlotte.

[VinceA]

For me at this point the main reason I'm against Arfield playing more games for us is that he's 35. We need to get younger and I don't think I'm taking him over any of the other options we have in midfield who are all younger.

[Bigandy]

48 minutes ago, Bison44 said:

Whats not simple about unretiring.  Biello calls and says, "Hey buddy, Herdmans jumped ship, yeah turns out he didnt care that much about the shirt, HAHAHA, yeah I know, what an blow hard, anyways, water under the bridge no hard feelings... next camp we'd like you to come in as the 23rd guy, mb use you as a 65th min sub if we are down and need some offense, we could use a little spark...sound ok Scotty???""

I'm all for a player of arfields experience to be part of the program if the team wants him. However, my main point is that I don't see why we are fawning over a retired player.  

He's currently not available for selection and until he chooses otherwise, theres no point in acting like herdman screwed up by not selecting him. That's like saying herdman screwed up because he didnt pick tomori. 

Maybe he unretires, but I just dont see the value he gets from doing so. 

[Bison44]

You make it sound like some sort of protected or banned player list.... "not available for selection".  Unless I am mistaken, cant he just catch a plane and show up if asked??  He doesnt need to clear waivers, get permission from the PM , fill out unretirement papers, or arrange a transfer to the INT player retirement fund.  Maybe I am wrong on that...please fill me in if I am.  

[dyslexic nam]

1 minute ago, Bison44 said:

You make it sound like some sort of protected or banned player list.... "not available for selection".  Unless I am mistaken, cant he just catch a plane and show up if asked??  He doesnt need to clear waivers, get permission from the PM , fill out unretirement papers, or arrange a transfer to the INT player retirement fund.  Maybe I am wrong on that...please fill me in if I am.  

Yeah, pretty sure there is nothing official or formal that mandates retirement.  It is just a decision by the player and can be reversed.  

Not saying it should be.  Just that it is nothing more than a declaration they are done.  
 

[Bigandy]

Just now, Bison44 said:

You make it sound like some sort of protected or banned player list.... "not available for selection".  Unless I am mistaken, cant he just catch a plane and show up if asked??  He doesnt need to clear waivers, get permission from the PM , fill out unretirement papers, or arrange a transfer to the INT player retirement fund.  Maybe I am wrong on that...please fill me in if I am.  

No one is saying that its difficult to unretire. You're placing meaning behind my words that arent my point.  

I agree. It would be extremely easy to unretire. However, players who have stated they retire are stating they are not available for selection any more. That is the definition of retiring from a national team. Of course it can change if both sides want that. However, theres literally no real evidence to suggest either side want this.