Kevin Blue named CSA General Secretary and CEO

[narduch]

5 minutes ago, prairiecanuck said:

Yes, but theoretically possible, but almost certainly won't happen when one of those teams is Argentina! 

Yes. They will most likely run through the group.

[Kadenge]

10 hours ago, Ivan said:

The timing and content has nothing to do with Westhead. It's the unnamed source(s) that wanted this out there at this time.

Any speculation as to who the unnamed sources are? 

[archer21]

I don’t even get what Westhead is trying to do with this article. The whole point in his early articles was that players weren’t being compensated fairly and that they weren’t given good enough work conditions. Now it’s that we’re paying the players too much and burning through cash. It’s not like people didn’t know the CSA was in a bad financial situation before, but that didn’t stop him from trying to paint the CSA as evil for not paying up.

[Unnamed Trialist]

13 minutes ago, Kadenge said:

Any speculation as to who the unnamed sources are? 

His doctor found them in his last colonoscopy.

[Ivan]

18 minutes ago, Kadenge said:

Any speculation as to who the unnamed sources are? 

@red card speculated the source is from the Women's NT in an earlier post.  I agree (which is why I think Westhead feels he can run with it) , but again, just speculation.

[Metro]

58 minutes ago, prairiecanuck said:

Yes, but theoretically possible, but almost certainly won't happen when one of those teams is Argentina! 

Roger Milla to the courtesy phone!

(I think only the old timers would get this one.)

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

40 minutes ago, prairiecanuck said:

Yes, but theoretically possible, but almost certainly won't happen when one of those teams is Argentina! 

Saudi Arabia managed to beat Argentina in Qatar so not sure that line of reasoning works. Think it's more than a "theoretically possible" type of scenario. Only problem is whether there is a team that is likely to be significantly weaker than the other three out of Canada, Chile and Peru, but a lot maybe depends on whether full strength rosters are sent.

Winding things back to how the number for expenses could far exceed $1 million, does anyone know who pays the insurance premium to compensate Bayern Munich and the player himself for future lost earnings if Alphonso Davies suffers a career ending injury while training with or playing for the CMNT and how much such a premium is likely to be for a player like that? Jason Bent's playing career ended during a CMNT game so it can happen.

[CanadaFan123]

11 minutes ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

Saudi Arabia managed to beat Argentina in Qatar so not sure that line of reasoning works. Think it's more than a "theoretically possible" type of scenario. Only problem is whether there is a team that is likely to be significantly weaker than the other three out of Canada, Chile and Peru, but a lot maybe depends on whether full strength rosters are sent.

Winding things back to how the number for expenses could far exceed $1 million, does anyone know who pays the insurance premium to compensate Bayern Munich and the player himself for future lost earnings if Alphonso Davies suffers a career ending injury while training with or playing for the CMNT and how much such a premium is likely to be for a player like that? Jason Bent's playing career ended during a CMNT game so it can happen.

FIFA pays it. Back to the drawing board to figure out where all these expenses could be from.

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

Do you have a url for that? I know there is a club protection program run through FIFA but haven't seen anything on who pays the premium and to what extent the player is covered for future loss of income.

[king1010]

27 minutes ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

Do you have a url for that? I know there is a club protection program run through FIFA but haven't seen anything on who pays the premium and to what extent the player is covered for future loss of income.

https://www.ecaeurope.com/about-eca/main-achievements/club-protection-programme/

https://www.backpagesport.co.uk/blog-master/ecor6x222i5rn6jlmackadynv82o4k#:~:text=Clubs are compensated based on,28 days of the injury.

[Bigandy]

2 hours ago, narduch said:

To be fair, in a group of 4, It is possible to have 3 teams on 2 wins and 1 loss and one team with 3 losses. 

I still think Westhead is a wind up artist on this subject.

Possible but hasnt happened in a world cup in my limited research of the world cup. I went as far back as 1974 and every single team with 6 points has always advanced. 

[WestHamCanadianinOxford]

16 minutes ago, king1010 said:

https://www.ecaeurope.com/about-eca/main-achievements/club-protection-programme/

https://www.backpagesport.co.uk/blog-master/ecor6x222i5rn6jlmackadynv82o4k#:~:text=Clubs are compensated based on,28 days of the injury.

Also the official documents 

https://digitalhub.fifa.com/m/158afa2542843245/original/glo0iuj5tqwrmoax18rb-pdf.pdf

From that it's not insurance, it's just compensation, if you look beyond FIFA. 

 

 

Edit: No money for you if the player dies. 

Edited March 19 by WestHamCanadianinOxford

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

15 minutes ago, king1010 said:

https://www.ecaeurope.com/about-eca/main-achievements/club-protection-programme/

https://www.backpagesport.co.uk/blog-master/ecor6x222i5rn6jlmackadynv82o4k#:~:text=Clubs are compensated based on,28 days of the injury.

Had already seen one of those links. Don't see anything in there that specifies who pays the premium and to what extent players are covered for future loss of earnings. For example:

https://www.ecaeurope.com/about-eca/main-achievements/club-protection-programme/

...need to be insured during national team matches by the event organisers.

Is about as clear as mud but I suspect is unlikely to be FIFA in the upcoming game against T&T.

 

 

[Bigandy]

59 minutes ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

Saudi Arabia managed to beat Argentina in Qatar so not sure that line of reasoning works. Think it's more than a "theoretically possible" type of scenario. Only problem is whether there is a team that is likely to be significantly weaker than the other three out of Canada, Chile and Peru, but a lot maybe depends on whether full strength rosters are sent.

Winding things back to how the number for expenses could far exceed $1 million, does anyone know who pays the insurance premium to compensate Bayern Munich and the player himself for future lost earnings if Alphonso Davies suffers a career ending injury while training with or playing for the CMNT and how much such a premium is likely to be for a player like that? Jason Bent's playing career ended during a CMNT game so it can happen.

It's not really more theoretically possible. Your argentina example proves that 6 points is enough. How many examples are there in major tournaments that a team has 6 points and does not advance. 

As for the far exceeding 1 million.... Im not sure why youre trying to find some weird costs to try and support an article tearing down CMNT. The insurance claim is bogus. Fifa helps offset costs of the Copa. We all understand there are costs to running a program and entering tournaments. 

No one is questioning the bonus numbers either. However, the proposed CBA that devos retracted said that a a fee of 3500 per player to play and UP TO 5500 in bonus's depending on the opponents rank. This means that the 9000$ bonus fee is not gauranteed to be 9000$ for each game....certainly not vs T and T. AND This CBA was never signed. These numbers could be completely wrong. 

[Ottawafan]

1 minute ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

Had already seen one of those links. Don't see anything in there that specifies who pays the premium and to what extent players are covered for future loss of earnings. For example:

https://www.ecaeurope.com/about-eca/main-achievements/club-protection-programme/

...need to be insured during national team matches by the event organisers.

Is about as clear as mud but I suspect is unlikely to be FIFA in the upcoming game against T&T.

 

 

It was one of the items the NHL was attempting to negotiate with the IOC when the league was looking to send its players to the Olympics.  IOC didn't want to cover it and the NHL said no thanks then.

[WestHamCanadianinOxford]

 

6 minutes ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

Had already seen one of those links. Don't see anything in there that specifies who pays the premium and to what extent players are covered for future loss of earnings. For example:

https://www.ecaeurope.com/about-eca/main-achievements/club-protection-programme/

...need to be insured during national team matches by the event organisers.

Is about as clear as mud but I suspect is unlikely to be FIFA in the upcoming game against T&T.

 

 

If you go straight to the source, this is what FIFA covers 

"In general, for the avoidance of doubt, covered are: • All matches between two “A” representative teams played on the dates of the FIFA international match calendar or on dates covered by the respective release period for such matches as defined in Annexe 1 of the FIFA Regulations on the Status and Transfer of Players, as long as they are also contained in the list of matches published on www.fifa.com."

[Bigandy]

15 hours ago, RS said:

I don’t really have time to answer the responses directed at me above right now, but for now I will throw out a general query to a seemingly prevailing sentiment in here.

It seems that a lot of people are bothered by the “timing” of this latest Westhead article, which comes five days before the Copa America qualifier.

Would there have been a more suitable time or date to publish it? Since it’s referencing the qualifier it’s timely in that regard, but if it came out, say, tomorrow or Wednesday would people still be bothered that he’s torpedoing the good vibes?

I’m genuinely asking here, not trying to be snarky. Because for years on this board many have bemoaned the CSA not being held accountable by the media, and now that the more prominent investigative sports journalist in Canada comes along there’s some very negative reaction to it.

(After typing all of that I realized that I probably could have responded to the posts directed at me 😁)

Is it really about the qualifier? It basically uses the qualifier to talk about the CSB deal, CSA financials, Leadership challenges, the lawsuit etc. 

None of that is new information and is just being rehashed. 

This article could have been timely if it focused on:

-A preview of the T and T game
-Blue's press conference
-Blues experience in getting funds
-A new era of CMNT as evidenced by top tier friendlies being scheduled
-How Copa could springboard the program forward as CMNT has never had so many players at high level or in form so we have the best chance we've ever had at performing at a major tournament

Its lazy journalism to say " theres a game coming up so lets bring up all the dirty laundry from the past 3 years". 

[RS]

I don't know, that seems like the opposite of lazy to me 😉

Honestly guys, I've grown tired of debating this, mostly because of UT's bullshit in the jersey thread. I appreciate the candour and that everyone else has engaged respectfully and in good faith.

I actually agree with a lot of others are saying — mostly that there's a bunch of pertinent info that was left out in the article, depriving the reader of much-needed context.

I just don't think its as malicious as many are making it out to be. Westhead doesn't do puff pieces and he's not a beat reporter so a lot of the criticisms are misplaced, IMO. He's not going to do match previews or rate the jersey release, that's not his bag.

[Bigandy]

36 minutes ago, RS said:

I don't know, that seems like the opposite of lazy to me 😉

Honestly guys, I've grown tired of debating this, mostly because of UT's bullshit in the jersey thread. I appreciate the candour and that everyone else has engaged respectfully and in good faith.

I actually agree with a lot of others are saying — mostly that there's a bunch of pertinent info that was left out in the article, depriving the reader of much-needed context.

I just don't think its as malicious as many are making it out to be. Westhead doesn't do puff pieces and he's not a beat reporter so a lot of the criticisms are misplaced, IMO. He's not going to do match previews or rate the jersey release, that's not his bag.

Fair point. Lazy is probably not the right word. I should have used whatever the right word is for just reporting old news instead of going out and investigating new news. 

But great debate. Alot of what we debated have to do with subtle differences of interpretation. I enjoyed hearing your perspective. 

[WestHamCanadianinOxford]

1 hour ago, RS said:

I just don't think its as malicious as many are making it out to be. Westhead doesn't do puff pieces and he's not a beat reporter so a lot of the criticisms are misplaced, IMO. He's not going to do match previews or rate the jersey release, that's not his bag.

I appreciate the point, I tend to defend (some) politicians and journalists because I know what it's like to be there and that there are people there with good intentions.  

Having started my work life there and then (cowardly?) retreating eventually into academia, I still believe there is good journalism to be written. 

And, to me, there are some strong examples of poor journalism in that piece.  Context is hugely important, as you say, (see the States currently) but even more so are the comparisons a journalist makes, especially if a lot of your audience is probably laymen in the subject. 

There are lots of other factors but it feels like he enjoys sharing and building scandals, which is not a basis for good journalism.  

Edited March 19 by WestHamCanadianinOxford

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

1 hour ago, Bigandy said:

.... Im not sure why youre trying to find some weird costs to try and support an article tearing down CMNT...

Insurance cover for players isn't a weird cost but something that a player whose career can be over with one bad challenge definitely needs to take seriously and the article doesn't tear down the CMNT. It was actually quite upbeat about the CMNT's prospects where the T&T and possible subsequent group stage games are concerned. The concerns the article highlighted were about CSA finances which is something that Kevin Blue appears to think needs to be improved as well.

[Bigandy]

17 minutes ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

Insurance cover for players isn't a weird cost but something that a player whose career can be over with one bad challenge definitely needs to take seriously and the article doesn't tear down the CMNT. It was actually quite upbeat about the CMNT's prospects where the T&T and possible subsequent group stage games are concerned. The concerns the article highlighted were about CSA finances which is something that Kevin Blue appears to think needs to be improved as well.

I think you misunderstood. 

Trying to use insurance coverage as a cost to CMNT is weird. Its not a CMNT cost. 

When someone has to go digging for obscure(not part of the article) and irrelevant information (not a CSA cost), it is likely that they are trying to justify some narrative that is incorrect. The narrative is negative towards CSA/CMNT and I don't understand why a fan of CMNT would try and spin things this way.....

[Treppy2]

1 hour ago, Bigandy said:

Possible but hasnt happened in a world cup in my limited research of the world cup. I went as far back as 1974 and every single team with 6 points has always advanced. 

Being pedantic, but until the 1990 World Cup if a team got six points in the group stage, it meant they won all three matches (when two points were awarded for a win). Infamously, three teams were tied with two wins, one loss after the group stage in the 1982 World Cup. It happens, but rarely.

Appreciate you doing the research all the way back to 1974, though!

[Bigandy]

15 minutes ago, Treppy2 said:

Being pedantic, but until the 1990 World Cup if a team got six points in the group stage, it meant they won all three matches (when two points were awarded for a win). Infamously, three teams were tied with two wins, one loss after the group stage in the 1982 World Cup. It happens, but rarely.

Appreciate you doing the research all the way back to 1974, though!

Good point and pretty interesting!

It's hard to do a comparison when some world cups had the 3rd place team advance and a difference of points for wins. It's at least fair to say that the current model has had all teams getting 6 points advancing. 

[shermanator]

The unfortunate reality of media is that clicks drive everything. I've had the people who cover Cavalry reach out asking to share their articles as much as possible lest the powers that be determine not enough people care enough for them to cover the sport. 

This means that stories like Westhead's need to omit certain details in order to drive more eyes to the story. Were the story more balanced most people wouldn't have given enough of a shit to even click, such is the nature of a sport that even at it's peak popularity in this country means it's still very niche.

I should also point out that while Westhead was not on yesterday's press call, Northern Tribune was. I've seen their name dragged through the mud a few times here and wanted to give them a shout out. They aren't paid for their work, so they aren't driven by the same need to sensationalize in order to put food on the table. They deserve some credit in trying to cover areas of the game in this country that others don't bother.

Edited March 19 by shermanator