2023 NCAA + U Sports

[Olympique_de_Marseille]

25 minutes ago, Fullback said:

Malik Henry goes shortly after to Montreal with the 39th pick. I believe he is a CM but used to be an attacker with TFC Academy. Can’t say I’m an expert on him though

https://www.mlssoccer.com/news/fc-dallas-sign-homegrown-forward-malik-henry-scott

So there is a Malik Henry and a Malik Henry-Scott both joining MLS this year?

 

[El Diego]

On 12/18/2023 at 10:38 AM, El Diego said:

This Nicolas Fleuriau Chateau immediately jumps out... 14 goals in less than 900 minutes?? According to his profile on the St. John's website, he missed his junior year due to a torn ACL. He didn't get a start as a sophomore and scored his only goal in the first round of the NCAA tournament. As a freshman he only appeared in one game as a sub.

As a redshirt junior, he still barely started (played in 17 matches but only started in 2). However, he somehow managed 14 goals which was tied for best in the nation (in the regular season). I don't know if he didn't start because he was coming off the ACL injury, or if there was actually someone ahead of him. One of his two starts came in the Big East tournament game at the end of the year. He was an all-Big East first team selection (another all-Big East first team player, Jacob Murrell, is projected as a top pick in the upcoming MLS Draft).

Here's a video of his goals from this season. Wonderful left foot. Interestingly, he has the armband in these clips, which makes me think his minutes were managed due to injury. He must have taken a medical redshirt for his junior year as I saw him listed as a redshirt junior, so if he comes back for a redshirt senior season it will be interesting to see how many goals he can put up, assuming he is healthy to start every match.

 

Whitecaps picked Nicolas Fleuriau Chateau in the 3rd round. Intrigued by this guy...

[Stryker911]

Random question, but how was Only Oyegunle able to go to NCAA after signing a pro contract and playing for Forge.

[harrycoyster]

8 minutes ago, Stryker911 said:

Random question, but how was Only Oyegunle able to go to NCAA after signing a pro contract and playing for Forge.

He was on a developmental contract, and the NCAA allows waivers for players that have played professionally, but haven't profited. NCAA soccer is full of players that played low-tier pro ball in Europe or the Caribbean, but can prove that the money they made was negligible.

When I worked in an NCAA athletic department, we signed a basketball player that had received a small cash prize as a player and I had to throw together paperwork that showed that his travel costs offset the prize money. 

[toontownman]

So 5 🇨🇦's picked in total?

I'd two of them turn into solid pros at this level that would be amazing. The draft still works for us as a subsidiary pathway.

[PopePouri]

32 minutes ago, toontownman said:

So 5 🇨🇦's picked in total?

I'd two of them turn into solid pros at this level that would be amazing. The draft still works for us as a subsidiary pathway.

I think 5 in the top 40 is a good rate for us given the internationals that went as well. US had 23 total which I think is an indictment on them and their development system. 

Edited December 20, 2023 by PopePouri

[Bigandy]

1 hour ago, PopePouri said:

I think 5 in the top 40 is a good rate for us given the internationals that went as well. US had 23 total which I think is an indictment on them and their development system. 

2019 was our idealish year with st clair, TB and miller selected. We had 4 canadians in the top 40. 
2020 we had 4 in the top 20 and only johnston (maybe raposo) are good enough for CMNT. Does Mcgraw count? 
2022 we had 3 in the top 40 and its unlikely anyone contributes. Hiebert went undrafted
2023 we had 6 in the top 42. Bombito, afrifra malcolm johnston, levonte johnson and nimick all with potential. We'd be thrilled with bombito and nimick contributing. 
 

Edited December 20, 2023 by Bigandy

[Bison44]

Missing a few Andy, but keep going back.  Maybe we average 1 important CMNT piece a year??

2022-Garvan and should have been Heibert, 2021-NA, 2020-McGraw, StClair also in 2019, 2018-NA, 2017,NA, 2016-Lareya, 2015 Larin, 2014-Tesho.  

[Bigandy]

39 minutes ago, Bison44 said:

Missing a few Andy, but keep going back.  Maybe we average 1 important CMNT piece a year??

2022-Garvan and should have been Heibert, 2021-NA, 2020-McGraw, StClair also in 2019, 2018-NA, 2017,NA, 2016-Lareya, 2015 Larin, 2014-Tesho.  

Thats great! Horrible miss on st clair on my part.  

I would say we have 11ish contributors since 2014. So give or take 1 a year. With a heavier emphasis on recent contributions. 

Im quite excited about having 5 canadians drafted but no individual profile makes me think thats our next laryea type guy. 

Anyone with more knowledge have a bet on whos the first to get a CMNT call up.

[Borjans Sweatpants]

 

This guy knows he’s a month younger than Phonzy right? 

[nolando]

3 hours ago, Borjans Sweatpants said:

 

This guy knows he’s a month younger than Phonzy right? 

Hell, even the next Akindele would be an amazing accomplishment.

[jordan]

On 12/20/2023 at 3:20 PM, toontownman said:

So 5 🇨🇦's picked in total?

I'd two of them turn into solid pros at this level that would be amazing. The draft still works for us as a subsidiary pathway.

6

Jayden Hibbert 

[Olympique_de_Marseille]

1 hour ago, jordan said:

6

Jayden Hibbert 

Despite @Shway mentioning him earlier in the thread, @sonic_fcpf didn't include him on what was otherwise a very thorough-looking list.

Do we have a thread for him yet? If we do want to make one, @Shway do you want to do the honours?

[Unnamed Trialist]

On 12/20/2023 at 1:30 AM, El Diego said:

Whitecaps picked Nicolas Fleuriau Chateau in the 3rd round. Intrigued by this guy...

They say he's sure to improve with age

[Unnamed Trialist]

On 12/21/2023 at 1:11 PM, Borjans Sweatpants said:

 

This guy knows he’s a month younger than Phonzy right? 

NCAA is a waste of time and the education, forget it.

Not just your great observation, but in general, it gives us a few players but it probably kills off even more.

[An Observer]

6 hours ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

NCAA is a waste of time and the education, forget it.

Not just your great observation, but in general, it gives us a few players but it probably kills off even more.

Personally, I disagree.  I think it’s an alternative pathway that has produced probably as many national team members as the combined 3 elite MLS academies in the last 10 years.  For players that reach 17/18 and have no where to go other than possibly riding the pine in the CPL (even if they can make that), it gives them a competitive place to play in that 18-21 age group which keeps them in the game while giving them an education for their future.

If they were in Europe, the preference would be playing reserve sides for League 1 type teams in Europe or conference league in England, praying for a breakthrough some day.  Most of those players will be out of the game by their early 20s, without any skills and end up a general labourer somewhere.  That frankly is terrible indictment of professional football in Europe.  At least in Canada for hockey, I believe the CHL gives players one year of fully paid university for each year they play so invests in the future of the vast majority of players that don’t make it.  European football just spits them out onto the scrap heap.  And while you claim the professional route is so much better, if you compare this to hockey, the CHL and NCAA are both viable routes that are similar in competition and development.  Why the professional environment is so much better in football than NCAA is beyond me.  You can keep just stating it based on your own biases but I don’t see the facts to back that up.

[Borjans Sweatpants]

Might be most telling to watch the paths of Tahid and Tavernier in the coming years.

[Unnamed Trialist]

11 hours ago, An Observer said:

Personally, I disagree.  I think it’s an alternative pathway that has produced probably as many national team members as the combined 3 elite MLS academies in the last 10 years.  For players that reach 17/18 and have no where to go other than possibly riding the pine in the CPL (even if they can make that), it gives them a competitive place to play in that 18-21 age group which keeps them in the game while giving them an education for their future.

If they were in Europe, the preference would be playing reserve sides for League 1 type teams in Europe or conference league in England, praying for a breakthrough some day.  Most of those players will be out of the game by their early 20s, without any skills and end up a general labourer somewhere.  That frankly is terrible indictment of professional football in Europe.  At least in Canada for hockey, I believe the CHL gives players one year of fully paid university for each year they play so invests in the future of the vast majority of players that don’t make it.  European football just spits them out onto the scrap heap.  And while you claim the professional route is so much better, if you compare this to hockey, the CHL and NCAA are both viable routes that are similar in competition and development.  Why the professional environment is so much better in football than NCAA is beyond me.  You can keep just stating it based on your own biases but I don’t see the facts to back that up.

I don't agree for various reasons. 

First is that a young athlete can't be "competing" for 4 months a year. It stunts growth. 

I say it in quotes because if you're a freshman you won't get minutes, squads are big, you play a part of less than 16-18 matches. Soccer needs double that at least, 30 games over 9 months, minimum.

The competitive level is very low, most NCAA div 1 players aren't ready and they are truly spit out if turning pro is the ambition. It only works for us because it's there, it's close and the finances are taken care of.

So I guess that's good, but only as babysitting for grown men. Who then at age 22 have to go do what they should have done at 19… find a pro path.

And then the women, the last WWC and the current top women's players in the world show the lowest % of NCAA stock in history. Women, even Canadians, are abandoning the previously automatic option of NCAA because it's a career retardant and they realize that.

Let's not talk about "getting an education", 80% of that is garbage, a friend's kid played for UMKC and went from being a C- high school student to straight 4 point, most US universities are a joke and that explains a lot about the country.

[archer21]

1 hour ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

I don't agree for various reasons. 

First is that a young athlete can't be "competing" for 4 months a year. It stunts growth. 

I say it in quotes because if you're a freshman you won't get minutes, squads are big, you play a part of less than 16-18 matches. Soccer needs double that at least, 30 games over 9 months, minimum.

The competitive level is very low, most NCAA div 1 players aren't ready and they are truly spit out if turning pro is the ambition. It only works for us because it's there, it's close and the finances are taken care of.

So I guess that's good, but only as babysitting for grown men. Who then at age 22 have to go do what they should have done at 19… find a pro path.

And then the women, the last WWC and the current top women's players in the world show the lowest % of NCAA stock in history. Women, even Canadians, are abandoning the previously automatic option of NCAA because it's a career retardant and they realize that.

Let's not talk about "getting an education", 80% of that is garbage, a friend's kid played for UMKC and went from being a C- high school student to straight 4 point, most US universities are a joke and that explains a lot about the country.

As other options become available in Canada you’re probably right that we should move away from sending players to NCAA. The infrastructure hasn’t been there historically though, so it’s been good to find some hidden gems through this route. These NCAA players usually play in a summer league as well so they do technically get some more games each year, although the quality of those games could be scrutinized too.

[Stoppage Time]

3 hours ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

Let's not talk about "getting an education", 80% of that is garbage, a friend's kid played for UMKC and went from being a C- high school student to straight 4 point, most US universities are a joke and that explains a lot about the country.

Do you mean like Bullwinkle the moose recruited to Wossamotta U as a star rookie quarterback who studied Personal Hygiene and Basketweaving to meet academic requirements? 

[Unnamed Trialist]

8 minutes ago, Stoppage Time said:

Do you mean like Bullwinkle the moose recruited to Wossamotta U as a star rookie quarterback who studied Personal Hygiene and Basketweaving to meet academic requirements? 

And let's not be unfair to basketweaving, at least its been around since prehistory, is useful, and provides some meditative satisfaction to the maker. 

These guys study "marketing" or "communications", which is depressing if you ever thought either was a decent career option.

[Bison44]

18 hours ago, An Observer said:

Personally, I disagree.  I think it’s an alternative pathway that has produced probably as many national team members as the combined 3 elite MLS academies in the last 10 years.  

If canada was europe and we had several layers of Pro-clubs, first class academies on every other street corner sure NCAA wouldnt be important.  We arent there yet and the above quote proves it, our NCAA kids are still a huge part of the national team.  

And just to push back on UT a bit, no one is forcing these atheletes into basket weaving.  This sounds more like what my Dad and his friends would say when they wanted to disparage continuing education in the 70's.   Plenty of people come out of Uni with useable degrees and jump into the workforce.  If NCAA/sports kids dont, its not its not really a condemnation of the NCAA sports system, the players themselves have to shoulder some of the blame for taking the easy education path which leads nowhere.   

[sonic_fcpf]

7 hours ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

I don't agree for various reasons. 

First is that a young athlete can't be "competing" for 4 months a year. It stunts growth. 

I say it in quotes because if you're a freshman you won't get minutes, squads are big, you play a part of less than 16-18 matches. Soccer needs double that at least, 30 games over 9 months, minimum.

The competitive level is very low, most NCAA div 1 players aren't ready and they are truly spit out if turning pro is the ambition. It only works for us because it's there, it's close and the finances are taken care of.

So I guess that's good, but only as babysitting for grown men. Who then at age 22 have to go do what they should have done at 19… find a pro path.

And then the women, the last WWC and the current top women's players in the world show the lowest % of NCAA stock in history. Women, even Canadians, are abandoning the previously automatic option of NCAA because it's a career retardant and they realize that.

Let's not talk about "getting an education", 80% of that is garbage, a friend's kid played for UMKC and went from being a C- high school student to straight 4 point, most US universities are a joke and that explains a lot about the country.

Not exactly. Most of them (at least the best) compete additional 3 to 4 months in USL2. 50 of the drafted players played USL2 this year. On the other side if the freshmen are good they play as much as seniors and sometimes even more....and we have good Canadian examples in the last 5 years like Tajon Buchanan (one of the highest profile players today that played NCAA ). Regarding the quality of universities you have everything but most part of the players that were drafted came from very good schools like Georgetown, Duke or Stanford ...all of them with multiple players drafted.

https://www.mlssoccer.com/superdraft/news/mls-superdraft-10-recent-gems

Edited December 26, 2023 by sonic_fcpf

[Kadenge]

There's  still big gaps re scouting in Canada. Too many high end players seem to go unnoticed at various  levels, including our National youth teams, so NCAA is thankfully giving these players a final opportunity to showcase their talents. Larin,Tajon, Laryea, AJ, St Clair were all missed by the 3 MLS academies. Kone was signed by Montreal on his 3rd trial. While player development is not linear, pure talent and skill on the ball is something you can spot at an early age.

[Unnamed Trialist]

17 hours ago, Bison44 said:

If canada was europe and we had several layers of Pro-clubs, first class academies on every other street corner sure NCAA wouldnt be important.  We arent there yet and the above quote proves it, our NCAA kids are still a huge part of the national team.  

And just to push back on UT a bit, no one is forcing these atheletes into basket weaving.  This sounds more like what my Dad and his friends would say when they wanted to disparage continuing education in the 70's.   Plenty of people come out of Uni with useable degrees and jump into the workforce.  If NCAA/sports kids dont, its not its not really a condemnation of the NCAA sports system, the players themselves have to shoulder some of the blame for taking the easy education path which leads nowhere.   

I was defending basket weaving buddy, believe it or not I actually teach the history and culture of basket and other weaving in class (design theory and history). 

I'm all for basket weaving.

NCAA kids make me want to puke into my rattan hamper.