Tom Holmes

[SoCalTransport]

I recently watched Tom play, if he’s eligible  we definitely need to cap-tie him for depth reasons, but I don’t necessarily think his ceiling is higher than Kamal Miller. I could be wrong, but that’s my feeling.

[prairiecanuck]

7 hours ago, SoCalTransport said:

I recently watched Tom play, if he’s eligible  we definitely need to cap-tie him for depth reasons, but I don’t necessarily think his ceiling is higher than Kamal Miller. I could be wrong, but that’s my feeling.

Well Kamal is a left footed CB, Holmes a right footed CB.  I'm more concerned with replacing a 35 year old Vitoria if he goes down with injury.

[Shway]

7 hours ago, SoCalTransport said:

I recently watched Tom play, if he’s eligible  we definitely need to cap-tie him for depth reasons, but I don’t necessarily think his ceiling is higher than Kamal Miller. I could be wrong, but that’s my feeling.

Yea I really don't get how ceilings are projected. Is that a North American sports thing? It's a statement to me that is very arbitrary like "the skys the limit", meanwhile we're casually going to space.

Mind you he's only 22yo, and in Europe. While Miller is 25 and still in MLS. But a lot could change in a few years.

[frmr]

Tough crowd. Holmes is a regular starter for and captain of a top Championship side that is currently battling for promotion to the Premier League at age 22. He 100% has a higher ceiling (read: potential) than any other CB in our pool, by a wide margin. He would be far more than "depth" for us, and if he is able to commit to us it would be the biggest coup since we lost out on Tomori (in my opinion). Although I have very high hopes for Justin Smith as well.

[WestHamCanadianinOxford]

17 minutes ago, Shway said:

Yea I really don't get how ceilings are projected. Is that a North American sports thing? It's a statement to me that is very arbitrary like "the skys the limit", meanwhile we're casually going to space.

Mind you he's only 22yo, and in Europe. While Miller is 25 and still in MLS. But a lot could change in a few years.

I see them as different kinds of centre backs.  Holmes from what I have seen is an old-school, English, leave-everything-on the-pitch, dive-in (maybe too much) kind.  Miller does not have ideal centre back height but is more cultured, better on the ball,comparing them at this point in their careers.  Miller does benefit from 6'4"/6'5"? Vitoria beside him. Holmes is not that tall (6'2 ish) but uses his size well. 

Edited September 13, 2022 by WestHamCanadianinOxford

[frmr]

20 minutes ago, WestHamCanadianinOxford said:

I see them as different kinds of centre backs.  Holmes from what I have seen is an old-school, English, leave-everything-on the-pitch, dive-in (maybe too much) kind.  Miller does not have ideal centre back height but is more cultured, better on the ball,comparing them at this point in their careers.  Miller does benefit from 6'4"/6'5"? Vitoria beside him. Holmes is not that tall (6'2 ish) but uses his size well. 

Not that I necessarily totally disagree and to be honest I haven't watched him enough to really say, but I don't think that's telling the whole story of his game. He is good on the ball and can pick out a pass. I know it's not always an accurate representation, but this video shows that he has more to his game than just being an old-school CB. Especially when you consider he was 20/21 in this video and confidently skipping past the press in a high level league.

 

Edited September 13, 2022 by frmr

[WestHamCanadianinOxford]

9 minutes ago, frmr said:

Not that I necessarily totally disagree and to be honest I haven't watched him a enough to really say, but I don't think that's telling the whole story of his game. He is good on the ball and can pick out a pass. I know it's not always an accurate representation, but this video shows that he has more to his game than just being an old-school CB. Especially when you consider he was 20/21 in this video and confidently skipping past the press in a high level league.

 

It was a sentence summary so I agree doesn't tell the whole story, you need some ability on the ball to survive in the modern game.  

My sister-in-law is from Reading and my nephew is being raised a Royal (*spits) so I end up following them a bit more than if it was just for Hoilett (and more than I would like.)  He certainly has time to develop and again it was reductive but that is what I have seen, from what I can watch (without paying for their TV). 

[SoCalTransport]

1 hour ago, Shway said:

Yea I really don't get how ceilings are projected. Is that a North American sports thing? It's a statement to me that is very arbitrary like "the skys the limit", meanwhile we're casually going to space.

Mind you he's only 22yo, and in Europe. While Miller is 25 and still in MLS. But a lot could change in a few years.

I get what you’re saying, the point I’m trying to make is that I think he is good, but I don’t think he would be our saviour at CB. Hopefully a new prospect appears out of the blue before 2026.

[PegCityCam]

I don't claim to know anything about Holmes but what i do know is that a 22 yearold Kamal had played a total of 16 MLS games in the 19/20 season and before that he was in the PDL. At 22 Holmes has played in over 70 games for Reading not including this season. Just based on that alone you could argue his "ceiling" is higher. Also, love me some Kamal but let's not pretend he was anything more than a fringe CMNT player until 2 years ago, at best. He's improved leaps and bounds since then but up until last year's Gold Cup I was not convinced tbh.

edit: To be fair, I haven't seen him play...and again, don't really know anything about him. Basing my take solely on his club history and age.

Edited September 13, 2022 by PegCityCam

[WestHamCanadianinOxford]

37 minutes ago, SoCalTransport said:

I get what you’re saying, the point I’m trying to make is that I think he is good, but I don’t think he would be our saviour at CB. Hopefully a new prospect appears out of the blue before 2026.

"The future's not ours to see"...but just throwing this out there.  21 year old Tom Holmes was in a similar place club-wise as as 21 year old  Fikayo Tomori.  Playing regularly for a good Championship team. 😉

Edited September 13, 2022 by WestHamCanadianinOxford

[SoCalTransport]

6 minutes ago, WestHamCanadianinOxford said:

"The future's not ours to see"...but just throwing this out there.  21 year old Tom Holmes was in a similar place club-wise as as 21 year old  Fikayo Tomori.  Playing regularly for a good Championship team. 😉

You’re right, and if he is eligible we have to cap-tie him…

[Kadenge]

2 hours ago, PegCityCam said:

I don't claim to know anything about Holmes but what i do know is that a 22 yearold Kamal had played a total of 16 MLS games in the 19/20 season and before that he was in the PDL. At 22 Holmes has played in over 70 games for Reading not including this season. Just based on that alone you could argue his "ceiling" is higher. Also, love me some Kamal but let's not pretend he was anything more than a fringe CMNT player until 2 years ago, at best. He's improved leaps and bounds since then but up until last year's Gold Cup I was not convinced tbh.

edit: To be fair, I haven't seen him play...and again, don't really know anything about him. Basing my take solely on his club history and age.

Kamal started at "LB" for Canada vs the USA in that historic 2-0 win in CNL played in 2019. It took a bit longer for him to be a starter but the signs were evidently there back in 2019. 

[PegCityCam]

6 minutes ago, Kadenge said:

Kamal started at "LB" for Canada vs the USA in that historic 2-0 win in CNL played in 2019. It took a bit longer for him to be a starter but the signs were evidently there back in 2019. 

Yeah "signs" and me being convinced are two different things lol. But point taken.

[JAVIERF]

The best thing Tom Holmes can do is " do a Tommy Coyne" plea as The irish said on the former Celtic iconic 9.

[narduch]

I'm going to predict he isn't eligible.

If he was they would have done a big announcement ahead of the roster drop.

[Floortom]

1 minute ago, narduch said:

I'm going to predict he isn't eligible.

If he was they would have done a big announcement ahead of the roster drop.

Have to agree. Everytime we bring a notable dual nat into the fold the CSA or one of its affiliates does a big reveal / teaser (Hoilett, Arfield, Ugbo, Akinola, etc)

[VinceA]

1 minute ago, Floortom said:

Have to agree. Everytime we bring a notable dual nat into the fold the CSA or one of its affiliates does a big reveal / teaser (Hoilett, Arfield, Ugbo, Akinola, etc)

I hope at the very least someone will ask Herdman about his eligbility.

[frmr]

4 minutes ago, narduch said:

I'm going to predict he isn't eligible.

If he was they would have done a big announcement ahead of the roster drop.

At this point I'm inclined to agree, but you never know.

[narduch]

They announced Ugbo on November 4 and the roster for that window a day later.

[WestHamCanadianinOxford]

17 minutes ago, Floortom said:

Have to agree. Everytime we bring a notable dual nat into the fold the CSA or one of its affiliates does a big reveal / teaser (Hoilett, Arfield, Ugbo, Akinola, etc)

Like this?

https://onesoccer.ca/a/3-potential-new-faces-to-keep-an-eye-out-for-on-the-september-canmnt-squad

Maybe not quite the same level.

[YorkRegionFan]

26 minutes ago, narduch said:

I'm going to predict he isn't eligible.

If he was they would have done a big announcement ahead of the roster drop.

Maybe we can hope that his passport application is stuck in the mail at the passport office?  It took 3 months for my daughter to get her passport renewed back at the beginning of the year.

[Corazon]

As great as it would be to have a player like Holmes on our roster in Qatar.  I am okay with bringing who we have available right now and that includes Waterman, especially with his familiarity with many of our other players.

If it's just a matter of getting him a passport, hopefully we can have it arranged and he can join our program in 2023.  All of our backline is very familiar with each other right now anyways and Waterman shouldn't have too much an issue if Kamal is beside him.

[Sal333]

2 minutes ago, Corazon said:

As great as it would be to have a player like Holmes on our roster in Qatar.  I am okay with bringing who we have available right now and that includes Waterman, especially with his familiarity with many of our other players.

If it's just a matter of getting him a passport, hopefully we can have it arranged and he can join our program in 2023.  All of our backline is very familiar with each other right now anyways and Waterman shouldn't have too much an issue if Kamal is beside him.

It's all true what you said except the little I've seen of Holmes he's head and shoulders better than Waterman. 

[JAVIERF]

Waterman is a good solid defender

[prairiecanuck]

6 hours ago, JAVIERF said:

Waterman is a good solid defender

We're going to find out if he plays against Uruguay!