Tom Holmes

[MauditYvon]

You forgot Mark Chung, Landon Donovan and Joe Kennaway.

ps : it’s sarcastic 

Edited September 18, 2022 by MauditYvon

[JAVIERF]

18 minutes ago, phil03 said:

Strongly disagree on this one. As much as I am a supporter of getting the best team of eligible players we can gather according to FIFA's rules and Canada's citizenship laws, without letting any no true Scotsman argument get in the way, and I believe that Holmes would have filled an important need for the team we shouldn't try to bend the rules just because its convenient on the pitch. That's the line we shouldn't cross because that's when a national team start to become less about representation and more about recruitment.

Like, that's the kind of stuff we criticize Qatar and other wealthy, yet no so populous, places for doing: basically assembling something that technically respect the letter of FIFA's rules but is essentially a professional team in national kits. Of course, one player wouldn't have gotten Canada there but it would have been a step in that direction.

Its a massive bummer that Holmes isn't eligible but he isn't eligible and that's that.

Check this out

England you know has two Irishman one even played senior for Ireland (plus Kane that almost got his father for Ireland) then a jamaican and a Canadian.  

Spain has Ansu Fati and more than half the team is either basque or catalunyan, which  is another topic. 

Japan has an american keeper and two more from abroad as for Senegal Cameroon Marruecos.  

 

[phil03]

20 minutes ago, JAVIERF said:

Check this out

England you know has two Irishman one even played senior for Ireland (plus Kane that almost got his father for Ireland) then a jamaican and a Canadian.  

Spain has Ansu Fati and more than half the team is either basque or catalunyan, which  is another topic. 

Japan has an american keeper and two more from abroad as for Senegal Cameroon Marruecos.  

 

Regarding this message and your previous one I will confess that I am not overly familiar with the situation of the Irish national team and the specific details of individual players of England players but I can see two possibilities, either a) Ireland has different citizenship laws then Canada and in that case that's that and probably has plenty of non-Soccer related factors to it  (IMO that's the most likely scenario) or b) Ireland does, in fact, actively bend its own laws to boost its teams. In that case its reprehensible and not something we should emulate. I have the same reasoning for England, Spain and Japan: if these players meet the citizenship criteria established by London, Madrid and Tokyo (which is probable) then nothing to say against their inclusion. If, on the off chance, they don't then don't those teams ought to be criticized for it not imitated.

Hell, I'll go as far as to say that IF Ireland does do that then the fact they haven't qualified is a net good for the sport as a whole and that FIFA should add some kind of ''respect the usual criteria to be eligible for citizenship'' blanket rule to handle such cases.

Would not bending the rules cost Canada? Probably, not bending the rules often does, but that doesn't mean we should bend the rules. 

On your human rights argument I do find it kinda puzzling to be honest: nobody has a human right to play for the CMNT, the CMNT obviously does not have a right to dictate governmental policies and/or ask for exceptions from it and the only human right regarding citizenship is that every person is entitled to one, from one country or another. Since Holmes presumably has British citizenship then I struggle to see how human rights come into play here.

Like, at the end of the day it isn't complicated: the idea is that every national team is made from the pool of players who have or can have citizenship according to a country's laws, respect FIFA's criteria and want to play in the team. These are the bounds of the playing field, lets play in them.

Edited September 18, 2022 by phil03

[MauditYvon]

I’m glad we will not become Algeria likes, with 22/26 players that never lived in the country. Fucking lame.

[JAVIERF]

7 minutes ago, phil03 said:

Regarding this message and your previous one I will confess that I am not overly familiar with the situation of the Irish national team and the specific details of individual players of England players but I can see two possibilities, either a) Ireland has different citizenship laws then Canada and in that case that's that and probably has plenty of non-Soccer related factors to it  (IMO that's the most likely scenario) or b) Ireland does, in fact, actively bend its own laws to boost its teams. In that case its reprehensible and not something we should emulate. I have the same reasoning for England, Spain and Japan: if these players meet the citizenship criteria established by London, Madrid and Tokyo (which is probable) then nothing to say against their inclusion. If, on the off chance, they don't then don't those teams ought to be criticized for it not imitated.

Hell, I'll go as far as to say that IF Ireland does do that then the fact they haven't qualified is a net good for the sport as a whole and that FIFA should add some kind of ''respect the usual criteria to be eligible for citizenship'' blanket rule to handle such cases.

Would not bending the rules cost Canada? Probably, not bending the rules often does, but that doesn't mean we should bend the rules. 

On your human rights argument I do find it kinda puzzling to be honest: nobody has a human right to play for the CMNT, the CMNT obviously does not have a right to dictate governmental policies and/or ask for exceptions from it and the only human right regarding citizenship is that every person is entitled to one, from one country or another. Since Holmes presumably has British citizenship then I struggle how human rights come into play here.

Like, at the end of the day it isn't complicated: the idea is that every national team is made from the pool of players who have or can have citizenship according to a country's laws, respect FIFA's criteria and want to play in the team. These are the bounds of the playing field, lets play in them.

Ireland team from the 80's and 90's had the irish diaspora

Mark lawrenson tony galvin andy Townsend    cris hughton are all  english

Mcateer and Aldo Liverpudlians

Kevin sheedy welsh  

Tommy coyne Bernie slaven ray Houghton  james mccarthy aidan mcgeady all Scottish 

Duffy McClean Wilson and Gibson northern irish

Even football irish icons Paul McGrath and Davy O'Leary were Irish people that were born somewhat in England and back to Ireland as baby Born.

On Spain the basque players want to compete for the basque country and the catalunyan country for Catalá.

 

[JAVIERF]

10 minutes ago, MauditYvon said:

I’m glad we will not become Algeria likes, with 22/26 players that never lived in the country. Fucking lame.

2010 circa

[phil03]

4 minutes ago, JAVIERF said:

Ireland team from the 80's and 90's had the irish diaspora

Mark lawrenson tony galvin andy Townsend    cris hughton are all  english

Mcateer and Aldo Liverpudlians

Kevin sheedy welsh  

Tommy coyne Bernie slaven ray Houghton  james mccarthy aidan mcgeady all Scottish 

Duffy McClean Wilson and Gibson northern irish

Even football irish icons Paul McGrath and Davy O'Leary were Irish people that were born somewhat in England and back to Ireland as baby Born.

On Spain the basque players want to compete for the basque country and the catalunyan country for Catalá.

 

Then I imagine Ireland probably simply had citizenship laws allowing these players, alongside many members of the Irish diaspora, to get it. As for the Basque and Catalan players, no matter what political opinions they might or might not have the fact remain that neither the Basque country nor Català are independent polities right now and that these players are probably Spanish citizens.

Edited September 18, 2022 by phil03

[David Pinto]

Is the below correct? 

 

 Fifa Eligable: Yes

Canadian citizenship eligable based on late 2000s policy change: No

? 

 

 

[JAVIERF]

53 minutes ago, David Pinto said:

Is the below correct? 

 

 Fifa Eligable: Yes

Canadian citizenship eligable based on late 2000s policy change: No

? 

 

 

Thats The escenario.  Thats why Herdman in my opinión tried to take this topic away confusing The average joe in The video

[narduch]

1 hour ago, David Pinto said:

Is the below correct? 

 

 Fifa Eligable: Yes

Canadian citizenship eligable based on late 2000s policy change: No

? 

 

 

Technically having a passport is also part of the eligibility 

[WestHamCanadianinOxford]

14 minutes ago, narduch said:

Technically having a passport is also part of the eligibility 

True and actually the mark of eligibilty as some places give passports to non-citizens.

But I believe we established before that Canada doesn't. 

 

If I am remembering this all correctly.

Edited September 19, 2022 by WestHamCanadianinOxford

[Obinna]

Can we move this thread to World Soccer if he indeed is not eligible? No sense tracking a player who cannot play for us.

[JamboAl]

5 minutes ago, Obinna said:

Can we move this thread to World Soccer if he indeed is not eligible? No sense tracking a player who cannot play for us.

I will do it this evening once I can get onto my laptop.

[narduch]

Just now, JamboAl said:

I will do it this evening once I can get onto my laptop.

Please move the Mitrovic thread too

[JAVIERF]

If you watch your coach last video, when asked about this fellow he did was divert the attention to that question, dodge a bullet and I don't blame him 

 What he should have said was like someone like Bielsa " I have no information at this moment or the truth as bad as it could be"/  that's my opinion.  

[Obinna]

1 hour ago, narduch said:

Please move the Mitrovic thread too

Mitrovic is still eligible. There is an extremely small chance things reverse, but for all we know he gets injured, doesn't attend Serbian camp, and Canada comes back into the picture. It's different from Holmes which is a clear cut case.

The time to move to Mitrovic thread is when he plays his 3 games for Serbia and gets cap tied, in my opinion anyways.

[narduch]

10 minutes ago, Obinna said:

Mitrovic is still eligible. There is an extremely small chance things reverse, but for all we know he gets injured, doesn't attend Serbian camp, and Canada comes back into the picture. It's different from Holmes which is a clear cut case.

The time to move to Mitrovic thread is when he plays his 3 games for Serbia and gets cap tied, in my opinion anyways.

Isn't Flores technically eligible still too? 

That thread was moved

[Razcal]

Yep, Flores has same eligibility as Mitrovic. Both have shown which teams they will suit up for. And it's not Canada.

Both, and this one belong in World Soccer.

[Obinna]

8 hours ago, narduch said:

Isn't Flores technically eligible still too? 

That thread was moved

Flores has played his 3 games, so he is no longer eligible. Mitrovic hasn't even attended Serbia camp yet. I get the Flores thread was moved before he played his third Mexico game, so I won't object too much if we move Mitrovic like tomorrow, but I just don't think it's necessary.

I think it depends on the nature of the situation as well, and no two cases are the same. For example, when Flores declared for Mexico it felt like he was clearly and definitively saying Mexico was his future, in a case closed sort of way. Personally, I don't get that vibe from Mitrovic, at least not yet. And furthermore, I am not even convinced he is Serbian quality. At least with Flores, being an Arsenal player, you could see a clear path for him with Mexico. 

Again, I don't think he ever plays for Canada, and I understand if others want to put an end to it, rather than prolonging the inevitable. Just seems to me we could at least wait until he actually plays a match for Serbia. 

[SoCalTransport]

On 9/19/2022 at 11:22 AM, narduch said:

Technically having a passport is also part of the eligibility 

I suggest this forum lobbies the government to get him a Canadian passport before the World Cup.

Only to have his father accept a call-up to England instead 😜

[Olympique_de_Marseille]

https://ca.sports.yahoo.com/news/tom-holmes-luton-town-sign-162509456.html

[SthMelbRed]

2 hours ago, Olympique_de_Marseille said:

https://ca.sports.yahoo.com/news/tom-holmes-luton-town-sign-162509456.html

Seems like Luton know him, but regard him as a Championship defender. He's been purchased, opportunistically, with an eye to their expected relegation back to the Championship for next season.

[Olympique_de_Marseille]

19 minutes ago, SthMelbRed said:

Seems like Luton know him, but regard him as a Championship defender. He's been purchased, opportunistically, with an eye to their expected relegation back to the Championship for next season.

That's what I assumed too.

Edited January 18 by Olympique_de_Marseille

[Dominic94]

He may have just become eligible, or now is.

 

someone else shared this:

 

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/no-appeal-lost-canadians-1.7090649

 

I believe he can now apply and get Canadian citizenship.