Tiago Coimbra

[InglewoodJack]

17 minutes ago, Bigandy said:

I have to say that I am sad to see this. I dont know much about the player and this could be great for his development, but i had hoped he would break through at palmeras and become a star. Starting for halifax is not the same as starting for palmeiras

Of course, but starring for Palmeiras is not too far off from starring for a top 5 euopean team. Their team is full of Brazilian vets, guys that played for top 5 leagues, and the next players that are going to be sold for the GDP of a small island nation in the next transfer window. To put it into perspective, his teammate Endrick, who is 15 and was just sold to Madrid for I believe 50M euros (record for that age?) is a bench player at Palmeiras. I think unless you've got the chance to be the next big thing in Brazilian soccer, you aren't cut out for that team.

[Fresh Prince of MTL]

I think this is a very exciting move for both him and the CPL. I’d love to see more of our young players getting playing time in a pro environment here at home compared to getting lost in big team’s academies

[Obinna]

17 minutes ago, Atlantic said:

He had just two appearances for the U20 side this season. Palmeiras is a hard academy to make it through, only the extremely talented 18 year olds make it to the first team and in a couple years time they’re off to a top 5 European league. I like this move for him, we will able to see his skill level on a constant basis at the pro level. Could be a financially impressive move a few years down the line for Halifax.

Says the guy who goes by the name "Atlantic"

[Bigandy]

Of course all the comments about this being a good move for his development has merit. However, they have merit because he isnt the next big thing worth 50million. Although it was always highly unlikely that he was going to be a star, it still is sad to have confirmation that he isn't. 

It's also a bit sad because of how far below the CPL is from a team like palmeries. If he moved to a level like mls or holland, turkey etc. Then he would already be at quite a high level for his age (assuming hed play first team). Again, the move to CPL indicates he isnt ready now for that level. Sure he can develop at the CPL and still turn into a star, however its still unfortunate that being in palmeries youth team doesnt equate to him already playing at a higher level than CPL. 

IMO the CPL is great for youth development but guys at the level of david, davies, staq etc were already beyond this level as youths and we want those types of players at higher levels if they can handle it.  

[dyslexic nam]

37 minutes ago, Bigandy said:

Of course all the comments about this being a good move for his development has merit. However, they have merit because he isnt the next big thing worth 50million. Although it was always highly unlikely that he was going to be a star, it still is sad to have confirmation that he isn't. 

It's also a bit sad because of how far below the CPL is from a team like palmeries. If he moved to a level like mls or holland, turkey etc. Then he would already be at quite a high level for his age (assuming hed play first team). Again, the move to CPL indicates he isnt ready now for that level. Sure he can develop at the CPL and still turn into a star, however its still unfortunate that being in palmeries youth team doesnt equate to him already playing at a higher level than CPL. 

IMO the CPL is great for youth development but guys at the level of david, davies, staq etc were already beyond this level as youths and we want those types of players at higher levels if they can handle it.  

May be a bit early to pin his level down - let’s let him play a season in CPL.  He could absolutely tear it up next season and make it clear that he is ready for a higher level.  

[Ansem]

Brazil has one of the best leagues in the world and Tiago has zero pro minutes. In the optics that doing very well in CPL gets you looks from Europe is a good decision.

He might not be good enough for Brazil but he might develop in to a SPL, Championship or Scandinavian league talent like Wero Diaz.

Good move overall

[InglewoodJack]

Another way to look at it is that Liam Millar was at Liverpool around the same age, and is still a young player playing well for a good club. We’d all rather him starring for Liverpool, but he’s still so young and if he can improve on the things that earned him a spot on one of the biggest clubs in the biggest soccer nation in the world, he can have an amazing career in Europe.

[Bigandy]

Just now, InglewoodJack said:

Another way to look at it is that Liam Millar was at Liverpool around the same age, and is still a young player playing well for a good club. We’d all rather him starring for Liverpool, but he’s still so young and if he can improve on the things that earned him a spot on one of the biggest clubs in the biggest soccer nation in the world, he can have an amazing career in Europe.

@dyslexic namI dont think i pinned his level down in my comment. I said that he could easily develop into a star via the CPL route. This move does signify he isnt ready to be a star at the palmeiras level currently. I know it was obvious and unliekly he was at palmeiras level, but i am just sad it is confirmed. 

@inglewood - I think that liam millar is a great example! Lots of players have to drop down a level or two in order to get first team minutes. 

Millar went from liverpool to basel. He had to drop down to a team that competes in europe regularly. Still quite a good level. 
Coimbra is dropping down from one of the best teams in brazil to the CPL.... Thats more than 1 or 2 steps down. Thats a massive massive step down. The huge drop is whats disappointing to me, even if its the right career move. I just wish his drop down was to a level like basel. 

[Fresh Prince of MTL]

1 hour ago, Bigandy said:

@dyslexic namI dont think i pinned his level down in my comment. I said that he could easily develop into a star via the CPL route. This move does signify he isnt ready to be a star at the palmeiras level currently. I know it was obvious and unliekly he was at palmeiras level, but i am just sad it is confirmed. 

@inglewood - I think that liam millar is a great example! Lots of players have to drop down a level or two in order to get first team minutes. 

Millar went from liverpool to basel. He had to drop down to a team that competes in europe regularly. Still quite a good level. 
Coimbra is dropping down from one of the best teams in brazil to the CPL.... Thats more than 1 or 2 steps down. Thats a massive massive step down. The huge drop is whats disappointing to me, even if its the right career move. I just wish his drop down was to a level like basel. 

You have to look at their ages as well though. Coimbra is still only 18, at that age millar was still a year or two away from his very first loan to the Scottish league. His move to Basel was made when he was nearly 22. I’m not saying Coimbra is a Millar level prospect I really don’t know much about him other than the few minutes at the u-17 tournament. But playing pro in the CPL at 18 is a good experience for a young prospect. There’s certain things you just can’t learn by playing academy vs academy games in my mind.

[VinceA]

19 minutes ago, Fresh Prince of MTL said:

You have to look at their ages as well though. Coimbra is still only 18, at that age millar was still a year or two away from his very first loan to the Scottish league. His move to Basel was made when he was nearly 22. I’m not saying Coimbra is a Millar level prospect I really don’t know much about him other than the few minutes at the u-17 tournament. But playing pro in the CPL at 18 is a good experience for a young prospect. There’s certain things you just can’t learn by playing academy vs academy games in my mind.

We saw the difference first hand between academy players and the professionals at the U20 tournament. Abatneh, Costa and Knight-Lebel struggles in some respects compared to guys like Campagna, Poku and Catavolo. Will say in Coimbra's favour though despite being an academy player he was pretty good at the tournament. But that's a testament to Palmeiras' academy.

 

Edited December 14, 2022 by VinceA

[Bigandy]

29 minutes ago, Fresh Prince of MTL said:

You have to look at their ages as well though. Coimbra is still only 18, at that age millar was still a year or two away from his very first loan to the Scottish league. His move to Basel was made when he was nearly 22. I’m not saying Coimbra is a Millar level prospect I really don’t know much about him other than the few minutes at the u-17 tournament. But playing pro in the CPL at 18 is a good experience for a young prospect. There’s certain things you just can’t learn by playing academy vs academy games in my mind.

I didnt realize how short of a time he has been at basel. Great point with needing to compare apples to apples. I just had hoped he would be playing pro in the mls or championship at 18.  The CPL still is unproven for development, both in terms of player development and next steps in your career. (unproven doesnt mean that it hasnt accomplished anything, but rather theres not a clear understanding of what sort of level the CPL will produce and what do the most opportunities come from. 

[Fresh Prince of MTL]

3 minutes ago, Bigandy said:

I didnt realize how short of a time he has been at basel. Great point with needing to compare apples to apples. I just had hoped he would be playing pro in the mls or championship at 18.  The CPL still is unproven for development, both in terms of player development and next steps in your career. (unproven doesnt mean that it hasnt accomplished anything, but rather theres not a clear understanding of what sort of level the CPL will produce and what do the most opportunities come from. 

Yeah I see what you’re saying and not every prospect is the same either. Some guys will thrive by getting playing time being the bigger fish in a small pond where others will take their few chances in an academy and be able to show their talent (Davies and David for sure)

[SpursFlu]

I think sometimes people don't consider the multitude of issues in people's lives. For instance Canada is a great place to live and I'm pretty certain his family lives in Canada. He might want to be closer to home and family. I think CPL is a good enough level to challenge any 18 yr old outside of top top talent. So if a teenager can dominate the CPL he's definitely put himself in a position for a great move. As an example, the striker with Cavalry last season. I think starting every week in the CPL as a teenager is a better situation than getting lost in the shuffle abroad 

Edited December 14, 2022 by SpursFlu

[Olympique_de_Marseille]

6 hours ago, VinceA said:

Can say I didn't see this coming.

Honestly, I thought it would be Valour FC and only Valour FC.

Phillip Dos Santos is the coach in Winnipeg and his brother Marc Dos Santos used to be U15 coach at Palmeiras.

I believe Marc still keeps in touch with staff down there.

Edited December 15, 2022 by Olympique_de_Marseille

[InglewoodJack]

4 hours ago, Bigandy said:

Millar went from liverpool to basel. He had to drop down to a team that competes in europe regularly. Still quite a good level. 
Coimbra is dropping down from one of the best teams in brazil to the CPL.... Thats more than 1 or 2 steps down. Thats a massive massive step down. The huge drop is whats disappointing to me, even if its the right career move. I just wish his drop down was to a level like basel. 

He was loaned to a Scottish team first. Don’t let them hear me, but at this point the CPL isn’t that far off from Scotland, unless you’re going to Rangers or Celtic. Maybe Coimbra gets picked up by Montreal next year, plays well, goes to Belgium, and from there he’s on his way while he’s still young. 

[Bigandy]

14 hours ago, InglewoodJack said:

He was loaned to a Scottish team first. Don’t let them hear me, but at this point the CPL isn’t that far off from Scotland, unless you’re going to Rangers or Celtic. Maybe Coimbra gets picked up by Montreal next year, plays well, goes to Belgium, and from there he’s on his way while he’s still young. 

I dont know about that.... Comparing Wotherspoons level to Ben fisk is just plain wrong. 

[InglewoodJack]

58 minutes ago, Bigandy said:

I dont know about that.... Comparing Wotherspoons level to Ben fisk is just plain wrong. 

I mean, Scotland is the most popular European transfer destination for CPL players, and I believe probably has the most Canadians of any European league. Scotland’s best players are a step above the CPL, and many CPL players are a step above the CPL itself, so if Coimbra is good enough, his time in Canada will be short.

[CanadaFan123]

I love this move for him. At his age it’s about finding a place to develop and be seen. His advisors have obviously done their homework in having him land in Halifax. If he’s successful he’s going to be popular and generate interest. Probably making decent money for an 18 year old as well.

[Dominic94]

People have to remember that 19-20 is late for a player to make his debut with the first team, anywhere but NA.

[Bigandy]

42 minutes ago, InglewoodJack said:

I mean, Scotland is the most popular European transfer destination for CPL players, and I believe probably has the most Canadians of any European league. Scotland’s best players are a step above the CPL, and many CPL players are a step above the CPL itself, so if Coimbra is good enough, his time in Canada will be short.

I think most of the CPL transfers to scotland are young players with potential. To me this doesnt indicate that they are close in level but rather that these youngsters are too good for the CPL and its just a stepping stone. Which is what i think you are saying with coimbra hopefully moving on. I just cant see any CPL team coming anywhere but last in the scottish league. 

[SthMelbRed]

11 hours ago, Dominic94 said:

People have to remember that 19-20 is late for a player to make his debut with the first team, anywhere but NA.

Is this really true, though?

I've looked at the Liverpool first-team squad of 26. I think we can all agree that if you're playing at that level, towards the top of the Premier League and in the very late stages of the Champions League every year, you're an elite player. The average age at debut is about 18 1/2. This includes your Milners and Elliots, who were amongst the youngest EPL debutants ever, as well as others who made their professional debuts at much more modest levels.

I suspect that if we look at players throughout all European leagues, that number would creep up somewhat.

[Unnamed Trialist]

1 hour ago, SthMelbRed said:

Is this really true, though?

I've looked at the Liverpool first-team squad of 26. I think we can all agree that if you're playing at that level, towards the top of the Premier League and in the very late stages of the Champions League every year, you're an elite player. The average age at debut is about 18 1/2. This includes your Milners and Elliots, who were amongst the youngest EPL debutants ever, as well as others who made their professional debuts at much more modest levels.

I suspect that if we look at players throughout all European leagues, that number would creep up somewhat.

Debuts are even younger now than they used to be on the bigger sides. We've totally accelerated them at Barça with plenty of teens recently, Ansu, Pedro, Gavi, Balde. I think it's to keep suitors at bay, they are getting offers and if Barça plays them their youth contracts get activated, they go from a modest contract to over a million, and that encourages them not to jump too young. Transfer fee options then rise (loan option however drop).

Every big club can cite cases of losing a talent, because you can't be throwing massive contracts to all your prospects.

It's also because of financial fair play in our case, our signing options are limited.

In the past the teens were one every few years, Guardiola was 19, Xavi 18....Bojan and Messi even younger. We've had 30 teen debuts since 2000, about half being a few odd matches in the Cup or covering injury with a late sub in the league. Only maybe 5-6 never planned out anywhere as pros. 

[Bigandy]

7 hours ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

Debuts are even younger now than they used to be on the bigger sides. We've totally accelerated them at Barça with plenty of teens recently, Ansu, Pedro, Gavi, Balde. I think it's to keep suitors at bay, they are getting offers and if Barça plays them their youth contracts get activated, they go from a modest contract to over a million, and that encourages them not to jump too young. Transfer fee options then rise (loan option however drop).

Every big club can cite cases of losing a talent, because you can't be throwing massive contracts to all your prospects.

It's also because of financial fair play in our case, our signing options are limited.

In the past the teens were one every few years, Guardiola was 19, Xavi 18....Bojan and Messi even younger. We've had 30 teen debuts since 2000, about half being a few odd matches in the Cup or covering injury with a late sub in the league. Only maybe 5-6 never planned out anywhere as pros. 

A quick google search gave me this article:https://football-observatory.com/IMG/sites/mr/mr54/en/
In 2020, The average age is 21.7 for debuts in the top 5 leagues. 

[Unnamed Trialist]

21 minutes ago, Bigandy said:

A quick google search gave me this article:https://football-observatory.com/IMG/sites/mr/mr54/en/
In 2020, The average age is 21.7 for debuts in the top 5 leagues. 

Thanks.

It'd be interesting (not proposing you do it, I'm not going to) to look at the first team top flight debuts of our latest roster of 26 at Qatar, more or less (add Henry, Kennedy, Crepeau).

I suspect MLS+NCAA made it a bit later, but I am not sure. Here's a start (if we get going we can do a new thread...)

Tajon at Revolution, just 19.

Davies at Caps, 15 and a half.

Larin at Orlando, a week before turning 20.

Ike Ugbo, a few weeks before his 18th birthday on loan to Barnsley.

.....

[cornerkick]

Anyone else found this to be neat?  i wonder if his jersey name was "Canadá"

Quote

In 2021, Coimbra joined Brazilian powerhouse Palmeiras. The São Paulo-based club won their 11th league championship in 2022. Coimbra has recently spent time on both the club’s U-17 and U-20 teams alongside the likes of top Brazilian prospects such as Endrick Felipe, who recently agreed to join Real Madrid in 2024. While playing for Palmeiras, Coimbra became known under the name Canadá because of his dual nationality.