General Discussion on CMNT

[SpecialK]

4 hours ago, matty said:

A TOP COACH WILL NOT QUALIFY CANADA FOR MAJOR TOURNAMENTS. IMPROVING OUR ACTUAL PROGRAM WILL.

Getting an  experienced coach will improve the program in the short term and in the long term. It sets a tone to players, fans, other teams that Canada wants to win and we want to win now, that tone is very important,  specially with 2026 coming around. Losing shouldn’t  acceptable. Creating a winning  culture is what Canada needs. By having  experienced winning coaches at all levels U15/17/20/Sr they can work together with  to help fix the problems with Canada soccer. The national teams at all levels has to have a high standard,  and that high standard will trickle down to the grass roots. 

The top  CONCACAF teams all have ex pro or current/former senior team head coaches or  assistants at the helm.  Costa Rica Mexico USA Panama El Salvador Jamaica Honduras and this is CONCACAF we are talking about, the joke  confederation  of the soccer world. Just look for yourself. 

Also Di Biagio did coach in Italy (La Storta in 2008 , Cisco Collatino 2008 to 2010 and Atletico Roma Jugend  2011 ) and was a scout for men’s sr team before taking over the U20 team and moving to the U21. The current coach of the Italian U20 team coach Guidi was the former Empoli FC Youth and Fiorentina Primavera ( coached over 100 games with Fiorentina ) 

4 hours ago, matty said:

90% of our fucking pool is in MLS academies which is why such are large portion of our team is MLS based which is what you were complaining about.

Do you honestly think we should just call everyone in Europe?

We've also called up like 5 Premier League prospects for youth games this year.

Your right,  The majority are in MLS academies,  but we have players who are young  in Europe,  South America and in other parts of Canada who are really good players who weren’t pick. U17  They played two series one is  Jamaica and one in  Panama  and few  identifying camps to get ready for  The championship, how is that enough time to evaluate, scout and get ready for a major  competition. I’m pretty sure the U20 was the same, also the U20 had key players missing because of injuries, not being pick or pro teams not letting them go. 

4 hours ago, matty said:

No they're evidence you're an over-reactive idiot who doesn't understand our programs biggest issues and simply wants feel good bandaids instead of real change.

Ouch. I’m a over reactive idiot?  That  harsh. I totally understand the biggest issues with Canadian soccer, but the grassroots problems will take 20-30 years to fix and shit ton of work. Short term change and right away success will lead into long term change and  continue success, matty to get real change you have to start somewhere. The CSA  can simply hire an experienced winning coach and  we have the players that are playing and being taught  at academies like West ham,Swansea city, Liverpool,Brighton & Hove Albion,  Blackburn, in Italy, in Serbia, in Portugal, in Scotland  etc, we didn’t even use them and you can’t tell me  they’re not good enough because these pro team think they are good or can be good. Canada does have talent!

I’m not saying to  ignore MLS and their academies because they’re important, they do produce good players.  But we can’t  afford to ignore players from other places, and having only a handful of camps is  not adequate and not acceptable to really evaluate the talent we have. We need a top tier coach to put it all together and get the best out of what we have. 

Edited December 3, 2017 by SpecialK

[matty]

40 minutes ago, SpecialK said:

Getting a  experienced coach will improve the program in the short term and in the long term. It sets a tone to players, fans, other teams that Canada wants to win and we want to win now, that tone is very important,  specially with 2026 coming around. Losing shouldn’t  acceptable. Creating a winning  culture is what Canada needs. By having  experienced winning coaches at all levels U15/17/20/Sr they can work together with  to help fix the problems with Canada soccer. The national teams at all levels has to have a high standard,  and that high standard will trickle down to the grass roots. 

The top  CONCACAF teams all have ex pro or current/former senior team head coaches or  assistants at the helm.  Costa Rica Mexico USA Panama El Salvador Jamaica Honduras and this is CONCACAF we are talking about, the joke  confederation  of the soccer world. Just look for yourself. 

It's debatable if bringing in a high cost coach can have either short or long term impact on a team. Stalteri (who you singled out) has been in our program for 25~ years between playing and coaching and given his history (winning the Gold Cup and Bundesliga) likely has a pretty good idea of how to create a winning culture. While the u17 was a bomb for him, the u15 competition was a great success. He also has similar experience to many of those coaches you singled out around CONCACAF.

40 minutes ago, SpecialK said:

Also Di Biagio did coach in Italy (La Storta in 2008 , Cisco Collatino 2008 to 2010 and Atletico Roma Jugend  2011 ) and was a scout for men’s sr team before taking over the U20 team and moving to the U21. The current coach of the Italian U20 team coach Guidi was the former Empoli FC Youth and Fiorentina Primavera ( coached over 100 games with Fiorentina ) 

Again he doesn't fit your pattern for a "proper youth national team coach" and nor does Guidi. If you look at Europe, you'll find many youth teams head by people who don't come from coaching senior teams.

40 minutes ago, SpecialK said:

Your right,  The majority are in MLS academies,  but we have players who are young  in Europe,  South America and in other parts of Canada who are really good players who weren’t pick. U17  They played two series one is  Jamaica and one in  Panama  and few  identifying camps to get ready for  The championship, how is that enough time to evaluate, scout and get ready for a major  competition. I’m pretty sure the U20 was the same, also the U20 had key players missing because of injuries, not being pick or pro teams not letting them go. 

A few things

Maybe they weren't part of our best 25? Did you ever consider that? Not everyone in Europe is a fucking star man. There's a long track record of guys who have gone and didn't make it.

How did OZ enjoy a rather successful Gold Cup with only one 1-game senior camp prior? 

Having limited camps is an issue yes but it's not exactly on the coach. There are both internal and external problems for arranging youth camps over here.

40 minutes ago, SpecialK said:

Ouch. I’m a over reactive idiot?  That  harsh. I totally understand the biggest issues with Canadian soccer, but the grassroots problems will take 20-30 years to fix and shit tone of work. Short term change and right away success will lead into long term change and  continue success, matty to get real change you have to start somewhere. The CSA  can simply hire an experienced winning coach and  we have the players that are playing and being taught  at academies like West ham,Swansea city, Liverpool,Brighton & Hove Albion,  Blackburn, in Italy, in Serbia, in Portugal, in Scotland  etc, we didn’t even use them and you can’t tell me  they’re not good enough because these pro team think they are good or can be good. Canada does have talent!

I’m not saying to  ignore MLS and their academies because they’re important, they do produce good players.  But we can’t  afford to ignore players from other places, and having only a handful of camps is  not adequate and not acceptable to really evaluate the talent we have. We need a top tier coach to put it all together and get the best out of what we have. 

The thing is you don't. You would rather change the transfer of funds from development to hiring single coaches which could add years to the wait time (which likely isn't 20-30 years btw) for those problems to be resolved. The $100k a year you want to spend could be used to improve our own coaching development or help start up D3 in the west both things that will have greater and longer term impacts.

You keep pushing to call Euro talent but can you say for certain that, they will be our best bet to win? It's likely that many are at a similar development phase or less developed or not ready for CONCACAF ball. Besides that WE DON'T IGNORE THEM.

You simply want to take bright shiny objects and throw CSA funds and competitive minutes at them without having seen them play or thinking about the actual damage it could do.

People have tried to explain the issues that exist and you say "fuck dealing with them" and then say throw Marc Dos Santos into the U17 role because that's better than helping to get a proper academy running is (say) Brandon.

Edited December 3, 2017 by matty

[harrycoyster]

3 hours ago, matty said:

Is Brooks the best Whitecap kid?

He's not the runaway best u17, but if I had to wager who the next u18 to get a HG deal would be my money would be on him. Some players you watch and go "I see how these traits could lead to a pro career" and others you watch and go "this kid is a pro". 2014 Kadin Chung and 2015 Alphonso Davies are the only other Caps players who have dominated the u16-18 level the way this kid is. He started every league game for the u17s this season and led the Caps to 9-1-1 with 8 goals in those games mostly from the wing.

Zohar, T-boy, and Brooks all have HG deals in their future from this u17 team though. 

Edited December 3, 2017 by harrycoyster

[harrycoyster]

3 hours ago, matty said:

I disagree in a way. While I can see it being an issue in regards to certain regions I think the classic UEFA national nabs our guy dying down.

The vast majority of dual nationals in the Caps academy are African, American or Caribbean in second nationality.

[matty]

6 minutes ago, harrycoyster said:

The vast majority of dual nationals in the Caps academy are African, American or Caribbean in second nationality.

I would say the Caribbean would be the biggest concern of those 3 regions. There will always be cases of guys going else (even happens to the best nations) but I do think the number of Canadians that do so will curb.

[SpecialK]

3 hours ago, matty said:

Stalteri (who you singled out) has been in our program for 25~ years between playing and coaching and given his history (winning the Gold Cup and Bundesliga) likely has a pretty good idea of how to create a winning culture. While the u17 was a bomb for him, the u15 competition was a great success. He also has similar experience to many of those coaches you singled out around CONCACAF.

Matty you are right, it is debatable. I single out Stalteri not because I don’t like him, but how that U17 performed and the selection of his team and lack of  experience in coaching and Yes he’s had success with the U15, I give him props. Maybe that’s a better fit for him at this time. The coaches I have said on those CONCACAF teams are at the U20 level not U17. 

 

3 hours ago, matty said:

A few things

Maybe they weren't part of our best 25? Did you ever consider that? Not everyone in Europe is a fucking star man. There's a long track record of guys who have gone and didn't make it.

How did OZ enjoy a rather successful Gold Cup with only one 1-game senior camp prior? 

Having limited camps is an issue yes but it's not exactly on the coach. There are both internal and external problems for arranging youth camps over here.

Yes of course I did, but maybe they were. Maybe they didn’t get a fair shot, for example  if I remember right Roberts CF Swansea city, only played one game against Jamaica. 

Oz was in Scotland and had two camps with one game and  scrimmages with the guys before the gold cup. Most of guys have played together before and are pro players.

i agree with you totally about the camps. 

5 hours ago, matty said:

The thing is you don't. You would rather change the transfer of funds from development to hiring single coaches which could add years to the wait time (which likely isn't 20-30 years btw) for those problems to be resolved. The $100k a year you want to spend could be used to improve our own coaching development or help start up D3 in the west both things that will have greater and longer term impacts.

You keep pushing to call Euro talent but can you say for certain that, they will be our best bet to win? It's likely that many are at a similar development phase or less developed or not ready for CONCACAF ball. Besides that WE DON'T IGNORE THEM.

You simply want to take bright shiny objects and throw CSA funds and competitive minutes at them without having seen them play or thinking about the actual damage it could do.

People have tried to explain the issues that exist and you say "fuck dealing with them" and then say throw Marc Dos Santos into the U17 role because that's better than helping to get a proper academy running is (say) Brandon.

Personally, I would love for the CSA to find the funds to do both, not pull away funds from development, grassroots, stepping up a D3 and hire a  experience coaches for the national teams and I really think they could it. My logic for allocating funds for an experience managers for teams is this, I believe we have the talent right now to do well and qualify for World Cups, once we get this coach and if we are winning, qualifying for World Cups the soccer world, the fans and sponsors are going to take notice. More  opportunities for players are going to open up, more money is going to come into the program, fans are going to go to the games, new  potential sponsors are going to come. So with this new money the CSA can really put the funds to good use. Also we create a winning culture and that sigma of Canadian soccer will gone, those duals might not leave and some might join up. Ya it might sound too good to be true but it can happen, winning and qualifying changes everything! If we put all this funding into developing players and the game, we’re still 96th in the world, it will be for nothing because all our great players are still gonna fuck off to better nations. Canada has already produced good players, they just didn’t play for Canada. 

I do keep pushing Euro based, because I looked at the USA and they failed with MLS talent and Canada shouldn’t fall into the trap. All the soccer pundits and even Oz has said players need to go to Europe to become elite. The level of soccer in North America is not there yet. You are right CONCACAF is different but thats why more games are key. You say we don’t ignore them well say that too :

Matthew Roberts - Swansea

Ben Paton - Blackburn

Malyk Hamilton - West Ham

Jordan Araujo - Brighton 

Axel Desjardins - Spezia 

Sebastian Breza - Potenza

Derek Cornelius - Javor-Matis

Harry Paton - Stenhousemuir FC

Marcus Godinho - Berwick Rangers FC

Zohran Bassong - Lille B

Stephen Eustáquio - Leixões

Massih Wassey - Paderborn - in 17 games his score 9 goals ( 2 of them were against 2.BUNDESLIGA teams. 

Tomer Chencinski - Shamrock Rovers

Stefan Cebara - Vojvodina

and many more. 

 

Iceland changed their men’s team by first getting a solid manager, they started winning and he created a system and standards for grassroots and build  facilities. Our grassroots system is so complex with no standards, with mass infighting between  academies provincial programs and national programs. With all that barley little  infrastructure, and your telling me that’s not gonna take 20 years to fix that with the amount of political bullshit and  stupidity and dick games in middle of all that. Haha ya I’ll take my experience manager please, I would like to win. 

Marc is a proven winner, develops young players and he’s canadian hell yes for U17 or U20

[matty]

1 hour ago, SpecialK said:

Matty you are right, it is debatable. I single out Stalteri not because I don’t like him, but how that U17 performed and the selection of his team and lack of  experience in coaching and Yes he’s had success with the U15, I give him props. Maybe that’s a better fit for him at this time. The coaches I have said on those CONCACAF teams are at the U20 level not U17. 

 

Yes of course I did, but maybe they were. Maybe they didn’t get a fair shot, for example  if I remember right Roberts CF Swansea city, only played one game against Jamaica. 

Oz was in Scotland and had two camps with one game and  scrimmages with the guys before the gold cup. Most of guys have played together before and are pro players.

i agree with you totally about the camps. 

Personally, I would love for the CSA to find the funds to do both, not pull away funds from development, grassroots, stepping up a D3 and hire a  experience coaches for the national teams and I really think they could it. My logic for allocating funds for an experience managers for teams is this, I believe we have the talent right now to do well and qualify for World Cups, once we get this coach and if we are winning, qualifying for World Cups the soccer world, the fans and sponsors are going to take notice. More  opportunities for players are going to open up, more money is going to come into the program, fans are going to go to the games, new  potential sponsors are going to come. So with this new money the CSA can really put the funds to good use. Also we create a winning culture and that sigma of Canadian soccer will gone, those duals might not leave and some might join up. Ya it might sound too good to be true but it can happen, winning and qualifying changes everything! If we put all this funding into developing players and the game, we’re still 96th in the world, it will be for nothing because all our great players are still gonna fuck off to better nations. Canada has already produced good players, they just didn’t play for Canada. 

I do keep pushing Euro based, because I looked at the USA and they failed with MLS talent and Canada shouldn’t fall into the trap. All the soccer pundits and even Oz has said players need to go to Europe to become elite. The level of soccer in North America is not there yet. You are right CONCACAF is different but thats why more games are key. You say we don’t ignore them well say that too :

Matthew Roberts - Swansea

Ben Paton - Blackburn

Malyk Hamilton - West Ham

Jordan Araujo - Brighton 

Axel Desjardins - Spezia 

Sebastian Breza - Potenza

Derek Cornelius - Javor-Matis

Harry Paton - Stenhousemuir FC

Marcus Godinho - Berwick Rangers FC

Zohran Bassong - Lille B

Stephen Eustáquio - Leixões

Massih Wassey - Paderborn - in 17 games his score 9 goals ( 2 of them were against 2.BUNDESLIGA teams. 

Tomer Chencinski - Shamrock Rovers

Stefan Cebara - Vojvodina

and many more. 

 

Iceland changed their men’s team by first getting a solid manager, they started winning and he created a system and standards for grassroots and build  facilities. Our grassroots system is so complex with no standards, with mass infighting between  academies provincial programs and national programs. With all that barley little  infrastructure, and your telling me that’s not gonna take 20 years to fix that with the amount of political bullshit and  stupidity and dick games in middle of all that. Haha ya I’ll take my experience manager please, I would like to win. 

Marc is a proven winner, develops young players and he’s canadian hell yes for U17 or U20

Thank you for proving me right good sir.

[Soefeia]

11 hours ago, SpecialK said:

I totally understand the biggest issues with Canadian soccer ...

Oh boy. 

Let me give you an opportunity to reevaluate this claim. 

Right now, who is in charge of the men's youth programs and what steps have they taken to improve the state of those programs in 2017?

What percentage of Canada Soccer's budget is committed to men's youth teams?

In the previous qualifying rounds for U17 and U20, what players did the staff identify as the first choice lineup, which of those players ended up playing in the tournaments, and for those that did not play, what were the reasons? 

If you can answer those off the top of your head, then you have just scratched the surface. If only large amounts of Google searching will help you answer them, then perhaps you should moderate your claim a bit.

It's not that some of your criticisms of the programs are devoid of merit, it's how certain you are of them with what I suspect is a lack of real information. I am happy to be proven wrong on that point. 

[badname22]

Who do you all prefer, De jong or Adekugbe?

[Chad_Impact]

57 minutes ago, badname22 said:

Who do you all prefer, De jong or Adekugbe?

Adekugbe

[jpg75]

Jordan Harvey /s

[matty]

Now that an MLS team has won it all let's bitch about new MLS roster rules again

[Scorpion26]

Well TFC needed more Canadians playing  tonight only one come on

35 minutes ago, matty said:

Now that an MLS team has won it all let's bitch about new MLS roster rules again

 

[CNMNTPERUELIGIBLE]

Does anyone have access to when CANMNT plans in playing in the new year? ... Also, are they always holding that so-called Camp Poutine in Jan.??? From what I remember it seems in WC years they don't hold it, unless I'm mistaken, but obviously there still is the  Fifa Window date in March... There is no information whatsoever in the sources I have under my disposal as to them scheduling something for that date.. As you guys must all know, lots of other federations already have something scheduled up and as heavy CANMNT supporters this gets under our nerves as to why we can't act quickly when it comes to scheduling matches in all Fifa windows... If anyone has heard anything, appreciate a reply... Also, any chance we might see new additions to the squad come the next camp? Any possibility that those highly sought players may get their first call-up?

 

 

[matty]

4 minutes ago, CNMNTPERUELIGIBLE said:

Does anyone have access to when CANMNT plans in playing in the new year? ... Also, are they always holding that so-called Camp Poutine in Jan.??? From what I remember it seems in WC years they don't hold it, unless I'm mistaken, but obviously there still is the  Fifa Window date in March... There is no information whatsoever in the sources I have under my disposal as to them scheduling something for that date.. As you guys must all know, lots of other federations already have something scheduled up and as heavy CANMNT supporters this gets under our nerves as to why we can't act quickly when it comes to scheduling matches in all Fifa windows... If anyone has heard anything, appreciate a reply... Also, any chance we might see new additions to the squad come the next camp? Any possibility that those highly sought players may get their first call-up?

A journalist tweeted that they were going to be doing a January camp when the November window didn't work out with Ecuador, just a note they are pretty good about scheduling for every window for the last several years so November seems like a one time miss.

If they do do the Jan camp it'll likely be a "B team" camp so maybe guys like Awuah, Laryea and Pasher debut and Tesho and Hamilton return to the fold. Won't see many guys in Aug-May leagues go if any.

[CNMNTPERUELIGIBLE]

Keep me posted once an announcement comes out for the Jan. camp... I will also do my part in looking for any news on this front @matty

[Jith12]

Thought it would be interesting to post this: Asmir Begović still has a Canada Soccer profile. 

https://canadasoccer.com/index.php/?pid=350&t=profile&

[carolynduthie]

1 minute ago, Jith12 said:

Thought it would be interesting to post this: Asmir Begović still has a Canada Soccer profile. 

https://canadasoccer.com/index.php/?pid=350&t=profile&

So does Sydney Leroux lol (in fact, not only does it exist, it's been updated with stuff she's won playing for the US) 
https://canadasoccer.com/?pid=1875&t=profile&

[BuzzAndSting]

1 minute ago, carolynduthie said:

So does Sydney Leroux lol (in fact, not only does it exist, it's been updated with stuff she's won playing for the US) 
https://canadasoccer.com/?pid=1875&t=profile&

Well that's pathetic.

[nfitz]

On 09/12/2017 at 8:06 PM, Scorpion26 said:

Well TFC needed more Canadians playing  tonight only one come on

Perhaps Altidore would defect after recent events, and his proclamation of "Toronto until I die".

[CNMNTPERUELIGIBLE]

1 hour ago, nfitz said:

Perhaps Altidore would defect after recent events, and his proclamation of "Toronto until I die".

That would've been great, but obviously impossible.... I do see him, however, getting Canadian citizenship in the not too distant future given his love and devotion to Toronto and I guess to a lesser extent Canada, lol.. I'm sure if you've checked  his instagram account he has the Canadian flag listed under his profile together with US and Haiti (https://www.instagram.com/jozyaltidore) .... Even some die-hard USMNT fans have directed criticisms at him by making comments that he might as well now play for them (CANMNT) lmfao... I'm very appreciative about his love, respect and commitment to the city... He already feels as one of ours (talking from a Toronto perspective) even tough, not from here originally, though, he feels as part of it (Toronto).. I'm sure a lot of us can relate to him in this aspect...  If only Giovinco had never been capped by Italy, one can think of how the CSA could have capitalize on this gem of a player once he had meet his residence requirements, lol... He would've been a dream for CANMNT

 

[nfitz]

Obviously - should have added the smiley.

Though who knows when FIFA next tweek the cap rules again.

[SkuseisLoose]

Just wondering, are we planning any friendlies soon? Just because the ranking is very important for world cup qualifying.

[harrycoyster]

1 hour ago, SkuseisLoose said:

Just wondering, are we planning any friendlies soon? Just because the ranking is very important for world cup qualifying.

At this point January looks unlikely.. Next FIFA window is in March.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, SkuseisLoose said:

Just wondering, are we planning any friendlies soon? Just because the ranking is very important for world cup qualifying.

not that important