General Discussion on CMNT

[matty]

Just now, dsqpr said:

Agree with 8/9 but I don't see any way that AJH is ahead of Cavallini.

As said I was going with regulars, because we haven't seen Cav since the Gold Cup and due to his history I opted to not include him. I do agree with you but didn't feel I could place him.

[matty]

Just now, dsqpr said:

Fair enough but on that basis I'd probably insert a third "random person".

As you said, it would depend on the formation but I don't see AJH as being ahead of the other contenders for an attacking role, such as Osorio or Davies.

I was really tempted to include them actually hence the random person in the mid. Davies is still a work in progress and Osorio seems like a wild card to me.

Largely, AJH should be the super sub but just gotta see what happens with Cav. Based on that I likely should have used a third but figure AJH's position as possible placeholder is enough to be there for now.

[harrycoyster]

Friendly reminder that while the US and Mexico are both holding u14 identification camps right now in Chula Vista and Guadalajara respectively, Canada Soccer doesn't hold identification camps for males until the u15 level. 

[Gian-Luca]

On 11/15/2017 at 5:15 PM, Kadenge said:

so this is what it took to knock Honduras out of the WC, something we have not been able to do the past 2 WC cycles:

Australia's starting 11 players (Team/League): Ryan (BHA- EPL),Sainsbury (China SL),Jurman (South Korea), Wright (Bristol City- Championship), Mooy (Huddersfield -Championship), Milligan (A- league), Jedinak (Villa- Championship, has played in EPL and scored the hat trick), Eraltay (Turkey), Leckie (Herta Berlin), Cahill (A- league, but previously in EPL), Rogic (Celtic).

 

What time of the day was the first leg held in Honduras?

[Jith12]

12 minutes ago, Gian-Luca said:

What time of the day was the first leg held in Honduras?

4 pm local time in San Pedro Sula (5 pm Toronto time)

[Gian-Luca]

4 hours ago, Jith12 said:

4 pm local time in San Pedro Sula (5 pm Toronto time)

Thanks - so they tried the same shit against them that they did against us, albeit with a major difference that the heat in early Sept was probably far worse than in mid November. Still, the Aussies got a draw out of it

[dyslexic nam]

3 hours ago, Gian-Luca said:

Thanks - so they tried the same shit against them that they did against us, albeit with a major difference that the heat in early Sept was probably far worse than in mid November. Still, the Aussies got a draw out of it

Plus they're Aussies, so it's not like being hot is an unnatural state for them.

[BCM]

On 11/16/2017 at 6:15 AM, Kadenge said:

so this is what it took to knock Honduras out of the WC, something we have not been able to do the past 2 WC cycles:

Australia's starting 11 players (Team/League): Ryan (BHA- EPL),Sainsbury (China SL),Jurman (South Korea), Wright (Bristol City- Championship), Mooy (Huddersfield -Championship), Milligan (A- league), Jedinak (Villa- Championship, has played in EPL and scored the hat trick), Eraltay (Turkey), Leckie (Herta Berlin), Cahill (A- league, but previously in EPL), Rogic (Celtic).

2  in top 5 Leagues and 4 (Championship and Celtic) in next tier plus  Cahill who is past his prime. Not a powerhouse team but when you compare it to the CMNT, we have Arfield in top 5, Atiba/Jnr in next tier and then perhaps Larin/Cavallini/Borjan.  Don't know if Liga MX is comparable to the English Championship?, but  we really drop off after those 6.  You can see why Oz was aggressively pursuing the 2 dual nationals as they would instantly elevate the CMNT to perhaps the level of Australia.  Larin needs to land in a solid Euro League hopefully in January and  Davies to follow him the next season. I don't see anyone else moving up...... perhaps James? I really hope Henry can stay fit and get some games in the Championship in January.

 

 

I think you're wrong that a few players puts us in the same category as Australia. It's not just where they're playing but also if they are actually playing and how important they are to the team. Mooy got Huddersfield to the EPL, Jedinak is a leader, etc.

You also have to look at depth - Australia had several Championship players on the bench, and even more not even called up. Heck, they didn't even call up a guy playing in the EPL, another at Lazio, Gronigan, Brugge, Pacos de Ferreira, etc - and most are actually playing, not just on the books! 

One example of depth - goalkeeping:

Ryan - Brighton, EPL

Langerak, Levante, La Liga (ex Bundesliga)

Vukovic, Genk, Belgian 1

Not called up:

Birighetti, NAC Breda, Eredivisie

Federici, Nott'm Forest, Champ (ex EPL)

Galekovic, Melbourne City, A-League

 

We have nowhere near the depth at any position, with the exception of forward where Australia is weak (but still had two bundesliga players, Isreal (ex Eredivisie & bundesliga), Swiss (ex eredivisie) and A-league (Cahill, ex EPL).

 

[Kadenge]

9 hours ago, BCM1555362349 said:

I think you're wrong that a few players puts us in the same category as Australia. It's not just where they're playing but also if they are actually playing and how important they are to the team. Mooy got Huddersfield to the EPL, Jedinak is a leader, etc.

You also have to look at depth - Australia had several Championship players on the bench, and even more not even called up. Heck, they didn't even call up a guy playing in the EPL, another at Lazio, Gronigan, Brugge, Pacos de Ferreira, etc - and most are actually playing, not just on the books! 

One example of depth - goalkeeping:

Ryan - Brighton, EPL

Langerak, Levante, La Liga (ex Bundesliga)

Vukovic, Genk, Belgian 1

Not called up:

Birighetti, NAC Breda, Eredivisie

Federici, Nott'm Forest, Champ (ex EPL)

Galekovic, Melbourne City, A-League

 

We have nowhere near the depth at any position, with the exception of forward where Australia is weak (but still had two bundesliga players, Isreal (ex Eredivisie & bundesliga), Swiss (ex eredivisie) and A-league (Cahill, ex EPL).

 

We will never have depth without a professional domestic league. Elevating our starting 11 with quality dual nationals is a quick fix. We have seen the impact that Arfield and Hoilett have had on the CMNT. The 2 dual nationals that Oz was pursuing along with Tabla, would in my opinion, have given us enough quality to overcome the 1 point difference with Honduras over the last 2 WCQ cycles. There has also been some organic growth within our team after the Gold Cup. Cavallini is now a starter in Liga MX; Borjan is a starter for Red Star and playing well in Europa League. Hoilette is in form with Cardiff and may be playing in the EPL next season; Atiba's Besiktas has qualified for the knock out round in Champions League; Larin will be playing in Europe next year; James is starting consistently in Hungary; Piette started every game for the Impact and AJH may do so next season. To use Besiktas as an example their starting 11 is fab; their bench not so. It hasn't hurt them from performing exceptionally well in the Champions league. Yes they have been lucky with injuries as were Leicester 2 season ago but a strong starting 11 can take you far.

[Jith12]

15 hours ago, Gian-Luca said:

Thanks - so they tried the same shit against them that they did against us, albeit with a major difference that the heat in early Sept was probably far worse than in mid November. Still, the Aussies got a draw out of it

Isn't it FIFA that chooses kickoff times? It would be ridiculous if FIFA let the hosting FA could choose the times.

[harrycoyster]

17 minutes ago, Jith12 said:

Isn't it FIFA that chooses kickoff times? It would be ridiculous if FIFA let the hosting FA could choose the times.

IIRC FIFA gives a time frame in which a game must be played, but there are ways around that. This Hex I believe Honduras played the US during the day because the lights at the stadium in San Pedro Sula suddenly needed "repairs".

[Jith12]

17 hours ago, harrycoyster said:

IIRC FIFA gives a time frame in which a game must be played, but there are ways around that. This Hex I believe Honduras played the US during the day because the lights at the stadium in San Pedro Sula suddenly needed "repairs".

Those hooligans broke them. At least Honduras making Australia play in the extreme heat is not as bad as the US making Costa Rica play in a snowstorm.

[Bison44]

7 hours ago, Jith12 said:

Those hooligans broke them. At least Honduras making Australia play in the extreme heat is not as bad as the US making Costa Rica play in a snowstorm.

Hard to say if the USMNT is powerful enough to summon a snowstorm, but you can damn near guess what the heat will be like in San pedro Sula in the early afternoon.  

[Jith12]

2 hours ago, Bison44 said:

Hard to say if the USMNT is powerful enough to summon a snowstorm, but you can damn near guess what the heat will be like in San pedro Sula in the early afternoon.  

Good meteorologists, bad players.

2 minutes ago, RandomDude_555 said:

The USMNT is a pathetic overrated group of mediocre players who are too afraid to play in adverse conditions so they make up shitty excuses and try to "cheat" their ways. Canada's MNT should not follow their example and aim much higher. 

We need to build a stadium in Yellowknife or Whitehorse, then train and play there. Give Honduras a taste of their own medicine.

[Scorpion26]

Youth Tournament for USA U17

Why couldn't Canada U17 be part of this tournament...... All our youth teams should be going to many tourneys around the world especially those in NA region.

I've mentioned it before maybe even starting our own yearly tournament most likely during spring/summer time....

Anyways after December, I am hoping to see even more games for Canada and with the ConCaCaf league thing  will help, but hope that it will allow Canada to play European, African, and other regions. 

[BrennanFan]

On 11/22/2017 at 1:40 AM, BCM1555362349 said:

I think you're wrong that a few players puts us in the same category as Australia. It's not just where they're playing but also if they are actually playing and how important they are to the team. Mooy got Huddersfield to the EPL, Jedinak is a leader, etc.

You also have to look at depth - Australia had several Championship players on the bench, and even more not even called up. Heck, they didn't even call up a guy playing in the EPL, another at Lazio, Gronigan, Brugge, Pacos de Ferreira, etc - and most are actually playing, not just on the books! 

One example of depth - goalkeeping:

Ryan - Brighton, EPL

Langerak, Levante, La Liga (ex Bundesliga)

Vukovic, Genk, Belgian 1

Not called up:

Birighetti, NAC Breda, Eredivisie

Federici, Nott'm Forest, Champ (ex EPL)

Galekovic, Melbourne City, A-League

 

We have nowhere near the depth at any position, with the exception of forward where Australia is weak (but still had two bundesliga players, Isreal (ex Eredivisie & bundesliga), Swiss (ex eredivisie) and A-league (Cahill, ex EPL).

 

Aside from club pedigree, the Australians know how to win.  They know how to manage a game.  Their attacking players are less technically gifted than ours, but as a team they stick to a game plan and make fewer mistakes than we do.  Same with Honduras.  That is why we would lose a home and away playoff against either one of these teams.  We buckle under pressure.  We find ways to lose.  We underachieve.

Even a team like New Zealand, they are far less skilled than we are but I have no doubt theyd get 0-0 against us here and beat us away.  They know themselves and execute a system that is 100% right for their players.  

I feel like we are constantly searching to find ourselves and a system that best suits us.  Following this team for as long as I have, patterns become painfully obvious.  We try to play attractive football for a cycle, we lose and then decide to play more conservatively, we lose and we say we need to be more attacking, so we try to play more attractive football, we lose and then decide to play more conservatively... and so on and so on:  Lenarduzzi (attacking), Holger (conservative), Yallop (attacking), Mitchell (clueless), Hart (attacking), Floro (conservative), OZ (attacking).  Its insane. 

Aside from giving players a place to play, having our own league will help us find our identity as a footballing nation.  

[matty]

1 hour ago, Scorpion26 said:

Youth Tournament for USA U17

Why couldn't Canada U17 be part of this tournament...... All our youth teams should be going to many tourneys around the world especially those in NA region.

I've mentioned it before maybe even starting our own yearly tournament most likely during spring/summer time....

Anyways after December, I am hoping to see even more games for Canada and with the ConCaCaf league thing  will help, but hope that it will allow Canada to play European, African, and other regions. 

I suspect you have to be invited and, again, we won a U23 tournament this year so don't say we ignore thee type of events. Hopefully we see Canada continue to explore youth cups in the future

[Scorpion26]

1 hour ago, matty said:

I suspect you have to be invited and, again, we won a U23 tournament this year so don't say we ignore thee type of events. Hopefully we see Canada continue to explore youth cups in the future

I didn't mean to imply that CSA/youth teams ignore tourneys, but that more involvements would be great... 

Yes the more the merrier.....

CPL can't start soon enough

Edited November 29, 2017 by Scorpion26

[matty]

2 minutes ago, Scorpion26 said:

I didn't apply that CSA/youth teams ignore tourneys, but that more involvements would be great... 

Yes the more the merrier.....

CPL can't start soon enough

Didn't mean to imply you did but was more a less addressing the 2 or 3 guys that regularly post about how the CSA ignores these things

[SpecialK]

I do agree with matty, we  probably have to be invited. But our youth teams need more games.  Why can't we host games or a  tournament. It would be a great way to  promote the game in  potential CPL cities and the CPL has a whole to young players and fans. Scotland U20 vs Canada U20 in Halifax, I'm sure would do amazing. 

[Scorpion26]

2 minutes ago, matty said:

Didn't mean to imply you did but was more a less addressing the 2 or 3 guys that regularly post about how the CSA ignores these things

Alright that's cool, but I don't think they ignore it, just not done enough in my views. Also didn't realize I my spelling mistake thanks as well....

[matty]

2 minutes ago, SpecialK said:

I do agree with matty, we  probably have to be invited. But our youth teams need more games.  Why can't we host games or a  tournament. It would be a great way to  promote the game in  potential CPL cities and the CPL has a whole to young players and fans. Scotland U20 vs Canada U20 in Halifax, I'm sure would do amazing. 

We could but I think most of these tournaments are privately run so it's not exactly something the CSA handles.

[matty]

1 minute ago, Scorpion26 said:

Alright that's cool, but I don't think they ignore it, just not done enough in my views. Also didn't realize I my spelling mistake thanks as well....

You made a typo?

[Scorpion26]

14 minutes ago, matty said:

We could but I think most of these tournaments are privately run so it's not exactly something the CSA handles.

Couldn't CSA get Umbro to help host tourneys like Nike does for USA? Or is that something already set up?

[harrycoyster]

13 minutes ago, matty said:

We could but I think most of these tournaments are privately run so it's not exactly something the CSA handles.

The USAs three biggest youth tournaments are now paid for by Nike, Dr. Pepper, and Dick's Sporting Goods...but all started out as USSF funded.