Voyageurs' Cup 2017

[shermanator]

Well, I was not expecting to see the words "mall cops" come up in this thread.

[Free kick]

18 minutes ago, Gian-Luca said:

Now having returned home to watch the TSN2 re-broadcast of the match, I disagree somewhat with the consensus. It was not only not a red card on Bernier, I didn't even think it was a foul. On TSN radio after the game Terry Dunfield thought it was a make up call for not giving a blatantly obvious penalty moments before, but I thought the officiating crew was incompetent the whole night missing both big and little calls for both teams, so why put the last bit of incompetency down to an intentionally bad call?

While I don't think Gantar was the reason TFC won, as a Canadian I would have preferred the victory to be because of  the crap American Fisher tackle rather than a Canadian Bernier play that probably wasn't even a foul and absolutely not a red card. And that aspect was Gantar's fault.

Thought Crepeau looked good and it will be a damn shame if we lose Tabla to the Ivory Coast as he was more of a handful for TFC than even Piatti was.

The decision by the CSA to mandate that three Cnd's be in the starting lineup for these games, was brilliant.  What i found encouraging from the Cnd angle, was that this was the first time ever that i thought that TFC's canadian players were collectively outperformed by opposing cnds in an MLS game or canadian championship games involving two cnd squads

 

PS.: this is all assuming that Tabla comits to canada. 

[Ansem]

9 minutes ago, Free kick said:

The decision by the CSA to mandate that three Cnd's be in the starting lineup for these games, was brilliant.  What i found encouraging from the Cnd angle, was that this was the first time ever that i thought that TFC's canadian players were collectively outperformed by opposing cnds in an MLS game or canadian championship games involving two cnd squads

 

PS.: this is all assuming that Tabla comits to canada. 

Should be enhanced by 3 Canadians at ALL TIMES!

[Free kick]

2 hours ago, Kent said:

TFC subbing out a couple Canadians at half wasn't laughable in my opinion. They care about winning the tournament. Anyone who thinks Altidore in for Ricketts doesn't improve TFC's chances is kidding themselves (and I love Ricketts!). Osorio off for Delgado is more up in the air, but in general the stats say you should make subs earlier rather than later. Tonight doesn't exactly contradict that logic since they were down at half, and got the win.

Tabla scored and was dangerous.  So he was not subbed out.  Crepeau played well plus he is GK, so he is not going to get subbed out.  When you play well, in most cases, you will never get subbed out. 

I agree with your assessment of Osorio subbing.  But, at the same time, you can say that he is not having great year so far.   

I hate to trott out cliches,  but in any competition in any sport, its first and foremost about performance.  You dont say, i am going to sub this guy out or put this guy in because his nationality, ethnicity or religion.   The leagues or national associtions can make rules to help or encourage developement of players of certain nationality and koodos to them for doing that.  But a coach's job is to coach. 

[Gian-Luca]

I find that Caldwell is usually pretty harsh on the Canadian players for TFC but even he found the half time subs for TFC surprising. I didn't in Ricketts case because Altidore coming on for him was predictable and would have happened even if Ricketts had scored a first half hat trick. However I thought Osorio had a pretty good first half so it makes me think that was also a pre-planned sub - it was not as though the goal against was his fault in any way.

[BearcatSA]

Was Chapman hurt?  I was surprised that he didn't make the bench tonight at the expense of someone like Cooper.

As for Osorio, I'm curious to see how things turn out for him at the GC.

 

[RJB]

What was with the celebration at the end?  TFC is Iceland all of a sudden?  

I know that they're a club with no history, but surely they can come up with something more original, no?

TFC is the team that deserved to win this trophy.  They're the best team in MLS(so painful to say that).

The atmosphere looked great.  I think the Icelandic rip off was tacky, but it was pretty impressive to see the crowd into it.  And as for the supporters, oh man, you've put up with a lot of crap teams, so kudos for sticking with it, and finally seeing the rewards.  Ultimately, the supporters deserve this (ugh, parenthood has softened me).

[Greatest Cockney Rip Off]

26 minutes ago, RJB said:

What was with the celebration at the end?  TFC is Iceland all of a sudden?  

I know that they're a club with no history, but surely they can come up with something more original, no?

Sorry, I don't want to come off as a dick but this is something that really pisses me off. Not sure how much attention you paid to TFC or Canada previously but this is something that has been done at matches for both club and country  here long before Iceland popularised it at the Euros. It is also pretty standard thing that lots of different supporters across Europe did before the Euros last summer. I've actually been very surprised at how many people think Iceland invented it. 

[Moldy9]

6 hours ago, Cheeta said:

Not the man's best night, by any measurement. 

But on the bright side now I know who drank all those beers I seem to be missing!  No idea how he pulled that trick off but that's my story and I'm sticking to it.  

That was horrible officiating by David Gantar. He failed to call fouls when needed and called fouls when there weren't any. And just like last year he gave Bernier another red card. I kinda feel bad for Gantar that he got bullied and treated like a cuck (seemed to like it) by Bradley, Altidore and Delgado bending over succumbing to pressure but I hope he never ever refs in the semis or finals again. I agree with Biello that maybe it's time CSA get refs outside the country cause the quality just isn't here.

I don't even understand how Silviu Petrescu can ref a TFC IMFC cup game when he is from Waterloo 120 kms from Toronto. Why not get a ref from Trois Rivières (120 kms from MTL) to officiate the second leg in Toronto? 

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

Could see why the red might be called that way even though it was a soft one as the way Bernier kept his studs up going into the challenge would have been potentially dangerous to Delgado in terms of risking a broken leg under different circumstances, which is why Altidore and co were so upset about it, but how the referee missed the penalty call is beyond me as the guy wasn't even close to getting to the ball first.

[Edit: had to watch many times to see it, but the defender may have technically got to the ball first judging by the way the ball bounces on the third camera angle, at that point it becomes a case of whether the challenge was made with excessive force and although it's robust it's probably fair game, so the call may have been OK.]

[Markus]

8 hours ago, lazlo_80 said:

most attended game in V Cup history. Pretty cool to see the attention it got in Toronto.

If you'd have told me ten years ago that a Canadian Championship would produce a crowd and scenes like that, I'm not sure I'd have believed it. The game has come a long way in the last decade. Small consolation if you're a Mtl supporter, I know. 

 

[dyslexic nam]

Not a red.

But an absolutely clear PK.

Both were utterly incompetent bits of refereeing, but at least they roughly balanced out in terms of impact and magnitude.  That in no way makes up for the level of ineptitude displayed by the guy in yellow, but at least the result is roughly how things would have likely ended under a more competent ref.  Hopefully Impact supporters can take a bit of consolation in that.  I know I would be far more pissed if there hadn't been the non-awarded PK, and Bernier's red was the lone massive fuck-up that contributed to the outcome. 

Overall, a fun and passionate game, but I haven't seen that level of officiating incompetence in a long time.  He lost control early, made game-altering errors (that ultimately balanced out) and allowed his big decision to be directed by the players.   

[jonovision]

The missed PK was obviously dead wrong, but I can see why the ref would not be quick to award one to Giovinco, who had been throwing himself to ground and getting up screaming all night to that point.

[dyslexic nam]

1 hour ago, jonovision said:

The missed PK was obviously dead wrong, but I can see why the ref would not be quick to award one to Giovinco, who had been throwing himself to ground and getting up screaming all night to that point.

Sure.  But then you card him for diving.  Ignoring an absolutely clear and undeniable penalty is not how you punish prior incidents - any more than carding Bernier was justified on the grounds that it made up for the missed PK.  They were both brutal examples of refereeing.  My only point (and the only redeeming factor) was that they were roughly equivalent in magnitude, so hopefully Impact fans can take consolation that they at least weren't robbed by a useless referee - because the potential that he would decide the game through ineptitude was definitely there.

[jonovision]

4 minutes ago, dyslexic nam said:

Sure.  But then you card him for diving.  Ignoring an absolutely clear and undeniable penalty is not how you punish prior incidents - any more than carding Bernier was justified on the grounds that it made up for the missed PK.  They were both brutal examples of refereeing.  My only point (and the only redeeming factor) was that they were roughly equivalent in magnitude, so hopefully Impact fans can take consolation that they at least weren't robbed by a useless referee - because the potential that he would decide the game through ineptitude was definitely there.

Not so much punishment but more a case of boy-who-cried-wolf. Either way, it's inexcusable from Gantar.

Toronto were the better team, are the better team, and should expect to win every time they face the Impact (or almost any other MLS team). The series was much closer than it ought to have been based on the talent available, and you're right, Gantar and the first leg ref weren't decisive in the outcome.

[ironcub14]

Was thinking of how a lot of my buddies that casually follow TFC and CanMNT still think of the tourney as the Amway Cup cuz they're stoopid as hell, but that's also all that they really know the tourney as, with Amway having been prominent before and many N American fans being so used to sponsorships.

Just so I do have it correct, the tournament at the moment is officially called the Canadian Championship and the cup is the Voyageurs Cup, right? I think the name of the tournament is terrible, and I'd like to suggest a quick rebrand of it, modelling it simply off the FA Cup, since England is what mainstream soccer fans always look towards here in Canada.

Why not call the tournament "The CSA Voyageurs Cup".

Homage to the V's, but make the name of the tourney simple, so mainstream fans can just call it the CSA Cup, similarly to the FA Cup.

[Free kick]

13 hours ago, RJB said:

What was with the celebration at the end?  TFC is Iceland all of a sudden?  

I know that they're a club with no history, but surely they can come up with something more original, no?

TFC is the team that deserved to win this trophy.  They're the best team in MLS(so painful to say that).

The atmosphere looked great.  I think the Icelandic rip off was tacky, but it was pretty impressive to see the crowd into it.  And as for the supporters, oh man, you've put up with a lot of crap teams, so kudos for sticking with it, and finally seeing the rewards.  Ultimately, the supporters deserve this (ugh, parenthood has softened me).

They have been doing the slow drum and clap, after the game,  for two years now.  Last night was probably the first time that it was shown on television.

edit.:  the slow clap was done even going back to the days when the Lynx (USL) were around; fifteen years ago. 

As pointed out by someone else on this thread.  The Icelandic fans at the Euro did not invent the slow clap

[dyslexic nam]

3 hours ago, ironcub14 said:

Why not call the tournament "The CSA Voyageurs Cup".

Because I suspect we would happily whore ourselves out to whoever wants to pay for naming rights.

[ironcub14]

15 minutes ago, dyslexic nam said:

Because I suspect we would happily whore ourselves out to whoever wants to pay for naming rights.

Yeah but until we do that. Plus, nobody's paying at the moment.

[Califax]

My friend pointed out that in the whole shit show that was Gantar last night, he called a perfect advantage on the winning goal. 

So, you know, that redeems it right?

[theaub]

Well based on the rest of the match he would've just called nothing at all which would have had the same result.

[Unnamed Trialist]

I don't see how folks can argue that was the worst reffing we have seen, when a few weeks ago an MLS ref, Alan Kelly, called a penalty in favour of Vancouver when Montero was fouled in our box, in defence, in our Dallas match. When asked about this, the ref admitted to Robinson that when he saw a WC player go down, he pointed to the spot. Even though he was fouled defending a Dallas free kick. He then reversed the call.

I posted on this in the WC thread, but since the official images cut it out, I'd have to find the whole sequence somewhere. 

He corrected himself, but that is the level we are dealing with. Reminds me once when my kid was about 13 a ref called a foul in the opposing team's box and placed the ball for  a free kick, pacing out the wall. Until someone shouted out he had called a foul in the box. So he reversed to penalty.

A fast play and lots of pressure can make a ref err, as happened in thiis V-cup final match. He had just been lambasted by Biello for a supposed non-call on a foul, and when the penalty came, he did not have the guts to call it. Then, when the Bernier challenge came, he repented from not having had the guts, and spilled his guts. This happens all the time with mediocre refs in football. 

But calling a penalty in a team´s favour in the wrong box? 

 

[harrycoyster]

Just here to say I can't wait until we have a US Open Cup sized Voyageurs Cup. Watching the US Open Cup games right now is so much fun. Miami FC beating Atlanta United, FC Cincinnati currently tied with the Fire in the 75' minute, 45k attendance in two D2 stadiums. What these cups do for the game is fantastic. 

[Rocket Robin]

my take on last night's final at:  http://www.rocketrobinsoccerintoronto.com/reports17/17tfc022.htm

[BenFisk'sBiggestFan]

23 minutes ago, harrycoyster said:

Just here to say I can't wait until we have a US Open Cup sized Voyageurs Cup. Watching the US Open Cup games right now is so much fun. Miami FC beating Atlanta United, FC Cincinnati currently tied with the Fire in the 75' minute, 45k attendance in two D2 stadiums. What these cups do for the game is fantastic. 

I think one of the reasons the US Open has gotten so big is because of the amateur teams. Everyone loves seeing upsets. Plus it gives some of those amateurs some exposure. Thats why it is such a great thing that the CSA is including L1O and PLSQ soon. I would love to see more of that, like perhaps the AMSL winner and the other provinces winners as well. 

Another great way of organizing a cup is making it regional (once there are enough teams). It really helps grow rivalries in a natural way. When you face the same couple teams every year in important games the players and the fans really get into it. Just look at TFC and the Impact. They had last years VC semis, the MLS playoffs, then this year's VC finals. Now it is the biggest rivalry in north american soccer. Both Montreal and Toronto really profits from the rivalry. Another great example is Ottawa and Edmonton. That is a new rivalry, but it is already getting heated. 

I can't wait to see where the Voyageurs Cup gets to in the next couple years with CPL and Amateur teams getting involved. The VC is going to play a big part in making Soccer a primary sport in Canada, I am sure of it. It will have upsets and rivalries, that is what fans are looking for. GO Edmonton GO!