Match Thread: World Cup Group F - Matchday 1 - Belgium v Canada - November 23, 2022 - 10pm local time / 2pm ET / 11am PT

[GasPed]

I have to admit, I'm disappointed today, but it's not an abject disappointment (like say Germany is feeling today) - it's like a disappointment mixed with wonderment, "Just how good was that?".  I think it has to do with how we so overperformed on expectations (at least my expectations).  We dominated the #2 team in every way except the scoreboard.  Is it safe to say we've finally arrived?  

[Ally McCoist]

Full 25 minute highlight video with Peter Drury commentary: https://sblongvu.com/y6vm8gx8pz2y.html (it's a safe link - looks sketchy I know but it's from soccercatch.com a website known for posting extended highlights)

Edited November 24, 2022 by Ally McCoist

[ECW]

6 hours ago, DeRo_Is_King said:

I haven't had a chance to read through this thread, so apologies if what I'm about to say has been mentioned already. 

Belgium were extremely poor in this game. But they got a chance and they finished it. 

Canada, in my view, looked nervous and that led to some wayward passing, a missed penalty and good chances being wasted. It's a much better result than I expected, but we cannot afford to shoot 22 times and only get three on goal.

Belgium punished us yesterday. Uruguay, even with their lack of possession and chances, punished as well in September. It's what the best teams do, and punishing us on the counter is becoming a trend.

Have we looked dangerous against top opposition? Yes, but Morocco / Croatia are good teams. We have to remain composed and convert against them to get six points. It is possible, but we desperately need better finishing. 

So, this is probably an unpopular opinion, but I thought it was an average performance from us that featured multiple attempts -- albeit off-target. 

Edit: Just to add, I watched the TSN broadcast. It's nice that the panel were impressed with Canada's performance. Maybe the larger platform is helping to create more support for the team, but Canada have the quality to play even better. 

I thought we were pretty damn good and all the international media I’ve read agrees. As does Belgium. But there have been matches when both David and Larin don’t look like scoring and the neutral wouldn’t imagine Larin has a brilliant record with Canada and David has been around the top of Ligue Un for the past two seasons. Unfortunately, Buchanan and Davies couldn’t come to the rescue. We were close to various World Cup records of shots without scoring. But scoring, usually isn’t a problem. 
 

One of the hugely wonderful things about this team is that it attacks and will never bunker. It’s always going to be at risk on the counter. 

[Kadenge]

Belgium's defence bent but did not break. They had defenders around for every chance we created and hence many shots off target.  We  attack from the wings or wide positions with speed but we also have to generate offense from the middle to keep balance. But we don't play with 3 mids so that link through the middle is missing. Miller & Vitoria had a solid game but that long pass and strike by Batsy is our achilles heel. Vitoria is slow and Miller is less slow. Once the attacker gets btw the 2 CBs  and the ball is played long we are in trouble. Incredible pass by TA and take by Batsy but that's on par for top teams. 

 

 

 

[jonovision]

40 minutes ago, Kadenge said:

Belgium's defence bent but did not break. They had defenders around for every chance we created and hence many shots off target.  We  attack from the wings or wide positions with speed but we also have to generate offense from the middle to keep balance. But we don't play with 3 mids so that link through the middle is missing. Miller & Vitoria had a solid game but that long pass and strike by Batsy is our achilles heel. Vitoria is slow and Miller is less slow. Once the attacker gets btw the 2 CBs  and the ball is played long we are in trouble. Incredible pass by TA and take by Batsy but that's on par for top teams. 

Disagree. Laryea was behind his defender but was fouled, no PK. Buchanan didn't quite reach the setup from Laryea, but the defender didn't put him off. Larin and David both had free headers. Many chances were only half-chances under big defensive pressure but not all of them.

[narduch]

 

 

[Kadenge]

2 minutes ago, jonovision said:

Disagree. Laryea was behind his defender but was fouled, no PK. Buchanan didn't quite reach the setup from Laryea, but the defender didn't put him off. Larin and David both had free headers. Many chances were only half-chances under big defensive pressure but not all of them.

A defender does not need to nudge or physically  interfere with a forward to have an impact as long as he is  close enough to not give the striker time to let the ball settle or get their footwork right. Larin's header from AJ was a big ask. Unless you get a lot of power on the ball he's not scoring from that distance on TC.  I'm not sure Laryea was  "behind his defender" vs besides him when he put his leg out to induce the foul. Besides if Laryea was behind his defender he would have been tripped from behind which is a sure PK. There would be no "he induced contact". Regardless we should have come away with a result in that game

 

[BearcatSA]

29 minutes ago, jonovision said:

 Buchanan didn't quite reach the setup from Laryea, but the defender didn't put him off.

That was a big miss.

[kacbru]

1 hour ago, BearcatSA said:

That was a big miss.

It was a significant miss.  The big miss was the other shot that looked like it ended up in the upper deck.

[TOcanadafan]

5 hours ago, Ally McCoist said:

Full 25 minute highlight video with Peter Drury commentary: https://sblongvu.com/y6vm8gx8pz2y.html (it's a safe link - looks sketchy I know but it's from soccercatch.com a website known for posting extended highlights)

Thanks for the link.  It just didn’t feel like a true World Cup game without the International British commentary. 
But watching this did bring out the heartbreak again that I thought I finally got over this afternoon 😭

[A_Gagne]

4 hours ago, narduch said:

 

 

Had a couple people from work who are very much casual fans - like "do they do line changes?" casual fan - comment positively on watching the game, that we "looked like the better team". So yeah, data like this fits with the anecdotes suggesting a lot of engagement.

[A_Gagne]

1 hour ago, A_Gagne said:

Had a couple people from work who are very much casual fans - like "do they do line changes?" casual fan - comment positively on watching the game, that we "looked like the better team". So yeah, data like this fits with the anecdotes suggesting a lot of engagement.

... the other comment I got was, "Belgium, they're good right?... I mean, it's a European country..."

[Kent]

On 11/23/2022 at 4:13 PM, jonovision said:

He was a big part of Canada driving the bus. I'm really tired of everyone laying this result at his feet. I didn't see anyone else on the pitch making their own case to take the penalty.

I agree with the part where you are objecting to someone wondering if we would have done better without Davies, other than the penalty I thought he was good.

However, the part I put in bold above, part of my reason I don't like players deciding on the pitch who should take it is that a good team player will know that it's not great to go up to the penalty taker and sow some doubt in their mind by saying "I think I should take this penalty". What happens at that point? If Davies disagrees then there could either be an argument that could strain the relationship between the 2 players, or if Davies says no and the guy that asked him for it just concedes, but now Davies is thinking about how his teammate didn't have confidence in him.

I have said in other threads I think it should be a decision by the coach well in advance. In those circumstances, let's say it was David that was decided will take penalties, everyone knows it's David. Maybe one guy asks "Are you good to take it?" David nods his head and everyone on the team can start saying "You got this David." That's a much better environment to be taking a penalty than 2 or 3 or more guys debating who has a better chance of scoring, or worse yet, who is the most deserving of being the guy to get the first goal for Canada at a World Cup.

[Kent]

On 11/23/2022 at 4:24 PM, Floortom said:

So do we want Belgium to run the table now? I did not think they, nor KDB, looked particularly good tonight. Maybe it’s a wake up call for them.

If we win our next 2 games we are guaranteed to finish ahead of Morocco and Croatia. So if we plan on winning those 2 games we do NOT want Belgium to run the table. If Belgium wins another and loses one, the first tie breaker is goal difference (not head to head).

But yeah, if we can win our next 2 games, the worse Belgium does the better. If however we get a win and a draw in our next 2 games, Belgium winning out would get us through. So would Belgium tying their remaining 2 games.

Maybe that's what we want, 2 Belgium draws is good if we end up with 4 points (we finish 2nd) and it's good if we end up with 6 points (we finish 1st).

But really, it's all about our games. We have our fate in our hands still. A win against Croatia would be absolutely massive.

[Neil R.]

Croatian manager, Zlatko Dalić, praised our performance during media availability today.

According to the subtitle translation on the video, he said:

"Canada deserved to win against Belgium last night. They were the better team. They played very well in attack with the high press. They were very dangerous and mighty. They conceded a goal from one mistake, but that's football. I think they played better than in previous games. We have a tough group, so we know we need to play better against Canada."

[SoCalTransport]

1 hour ago, Kent said:

I have said in other threads I think it should be a decision by the coach well in advance. In those circumstances, let's say it was David that was decided will take penalties, everyone knows it's David. Maybe one guy asks "Are you good to take it?" David nods his head and everyone on the team can start saying "You got this David." That's a much better environment to be taking a penalty than 2 or 3 or more guys debating who has a better chance of scoring, or worse yet, who is the most deserving of being the guy to get the first goal for Canada at a World Cup.

I think you should always go with the striker, because they're paid to score goals.

Davies played a good game, he was one of the reasons we had good high pressure. It's being overshadowed by the PK miss.

[Ally McCoist]

6 hours ago, Kent said:

I agree with the part where you are objecting to someone wondering if we would have done better without Davies, other than the penalty I thought he was good.

However, the part I put in bold above, part of my reason I don't like players deciding on the pitch who should take it is that a good team player will know that it's not great to go up to the penalty taker and sow some doubt in their mind by saying "I think I should take this penalty". What happens at that point? If Davies disagrees then there could either be an argument that could strain the relationship between the 2 players, or if Davies says no and the guy that asked him for it just concedes, but now Davies is thinking about how his teammate didn't have confidence in him.

I have said in other threads I think it should be a decision by the coach well in advance. In those circumstances, let's say it was David that was decided will take penalties, everyone knows it's David. Maybe one guy asks "Are you good to take it?" David nods his head and everyone on the team can start saying "You got this David." That's a much better environment to be taking a penalty than 2 or 3 or more guys debating who has a better chance of scoring, or worse yet, who is the most deserving of being the guy to get the first goal for Canada at a World Cup.

Herdman: Meticulously studies each of his opponent's recent matches including club performances to come up with a game plan for every possible scenario. Creates a 70 page document outlining tactics.  

Also Herdman: "Pens? Nah just decide amongst yourselves in the moment".  

I'm agree with you. You HAVE to have a designated player.

[footballfreak]

All right fess up. Who did this?

 

[rightback]

On 11/23/2022 at 11:50 PM, SthMelbRed said:

In Australia, we had Peter Drury, who's the best in the business, and another guy doing the commentary. They were effusive in their praise for Canada throughout the game and singled out Herdman's influence more than once.

Tastes differ, I don't like him, he gets way too carried away with his own opinions about things IMO. I like Martin Tyler personally but that might be because he's part of my youth from his days calling games on Soccer Made in Germany. It'll be a sad day when he finally hangs up the mic.

[frmr]

7 hours ago, Ally McCoist said:

Herdman: Meticulously studies each of his opponent's recent matches including club performances to come up with a game plan for every possible scenario. Creates a 70 page document outlining tactics.  

Also Herdman: "Pens? Nah just decide amongst yourselves in the moment".  

I'm agree with you. You HAVE to have a designated player.

I think you're missing the point. Penalties are very confidence-dependent. I get the logic of having a designated pen taker but I personally see nothing wrong with giving the players the responsibility to let a player grab the ball if he's feeling the occasion, rather than force a player who may not feel up to in that moment for one reason or another. If Davies scores that penalty, this conversation is not happening.

[Kent]

1 hour ago, frmr said:

I think you're missing the point. Penalties are very confidence-dependent. I get the logic of having a designated pen taker but I personally see nothing wrong with giving the players the responsibility to let a player grab the ball if he's feeling the occasion, rather than force a player who may not feel up to in that moment for one reason or another. If Davies scores that penalty, this conversation is not happening.

In my scenario you aren't forcing anyone. The guy at the top of the list has the right to say they aren't taking it, but it's his decision, not anybody elses. It's a right of first refusal. You don't want to have that guy with no self awareness who is terrible at penalties to decide he is feeling it in the moment, he'll take the kick.

[Pottsy3]

8 hours ago, footballfreak said:

All right fess up. Who did this?

 

This explains why Lukas MacNaughton disappeared from the camp photos leading up to the first match...

[Kent]

On 11/23/2022 at 5:59 PM, sebdeserio said:

It doesn't hurt more to lose when you know there was a path to victory?? I'm obviously proud of the boys but we're not making it out of the group because of the naivety IMO and knowing there could've been a path to the knockout stages and most likely not making it is much more painful then being a Costa Rica and having no hope. The long balls were pretty good especially at the beginning but they tired out our forwards who were already pressing madly. 

Not for me. If we had a 7-0 thrashing like Costa Rica had, I would have no hope for our next two games. As it stands I feel we still have a decent chance to get out of the group stage.

When 8-1 happened back in 2012 I didn't think "Well, I wanted to get to the next round, but it's a relief to know that we aren't remotely good enough. I can also be thankful to know well in advance that the next cycle is a write off as well. Maybe in 8 years we will be better." No, it was a soul crushing defeat. It made me feel foolish for thinking we could make it to the final round. It was humiliating that I left work early to watch that game. And I felt completely hopeless that things could turn around enough for us to have a chance in 4 years. It was 1000 times worse than the 2-0 loss to Panama in the same qualifying run.

[imoffside]

Not sure if its been posted here already but sharing this here (Canada talk starts around 8:30):

 

[Kent]

On 11/23/2022 at 11:10 PM, SoCalTransport said:

Hopefully they can bounce back from this and I would love to see them play Belgium later in the tournament, and get this one back.

Yeah, I think all of us would be happy to play Belgium again this tournament, since the only way to play a team from your group a 2nd time is to play them in the 3rd place game or the final. I would take a top 4 finish no questions asked!