Tani Oluwaseyi

[Güerito]

On 4/28/2024 at 1:58 AM, PegCityCam said:

For Canada, Hiebert, Kianz Froese, Bustos off the top of my head.

Came here to say this and to add Tavio Ciccarelli to the list. Yes, not a pro, but potentially big future ahead for the kid. 

 

Obviously Manitoba isn't a footballing hotbed and the population will never compare to BC or Ontario. But I think you'll start to see more names come about from Manitoba in Ciccarelli's generation and younger (whether that be through Whitecaps catchment, Valour, or those who choose to attempt their luck at Europe like Ciccarelli). There is a significant groundswell of popularity for the game amongst the youth in Manitoba, even moreso than hockey now. 

[Obinna]

2 hours ago, Soccerpro2 said:

Shaffelburg went to a top tier prep school in the U.S (my cousin to the same school for hockey 20 years ago). He also played summer PDL (I believe) in the U.S during that time.

If he never left N.S and didn't get the training, competition and exposure that he got in the U.S, would he have developed the same? Would TFC, or anyone else given him a sniff? No to both questions is my answer. Do you know how hard it is to stand out on a national stage when your team get smacked at club nationals by bigger provinces even if you're a really good player?

After having lived in several provinces in Canada (and playing university soccer for a few schools), it's clear to me there is a provincial hierarchy for pro soccer prospects in this country. Group A is Ontario, and then below them B.C, Quebec, Alberta. Group B is everyone else. Your chances of becoming a pro, regardless of your talent level, shrinks atomically if you are from a group B province.

It seems that Calgary and Edmonton are the cut off as far as what's required to produce a pro player. Winnipeg, at a couple hundred thousand people less, doesn't have the same development ability. This is due to several factors, but the biggest in my mind is competition. Winnipeg is just so isolated that top players don't get challenged playing in the city and Winnipeg doesn't have a Calgary or Edmonton 3 hours up the road to play against, and they don't regularly attend tournaments in B.C the way the top Alberta teams or the Pacific NW they way BC teams do or the U.S the way top teams in Ontario might (along with other strong competition from Quebec and Ontario teams)..

If you're from Halifax, and you're a top player, how do you get better? If you make it to club nationals/provincial teams you get to play against top level competition once every year or two. Other than that you play against crappy Maritime teams and maybe 2 decent teams in the Halifax region. How does that improve you as a player? How does that raise your level? It doesn't. It means you have to get out of there to a full time training environment, and how the hell are you going to accomplish that being on the East coast?

Coaching is a big issue in this country no doubt. But even if you have the best coaching in the world, it doesn't mean anything if you don't stay sharp playing against strong competition.

Good post and rings true from my own experiences as well, which are similar to yours as you know. 

I've said it before, but I think Winnipeg's isolation hurts Valour. Unfortunately I don't see a solution, either. Perhaps the population will grow to 1M and beyond in the coming years, at which point there may be a critical mass achieved. You're right though, there's no Edmonton or Calgary close by, which feed off and sustain each other. And Minneapolis is probably too far away to send teams down south on a regular basis, like you get with Vancouver-Seattle.

What @Güerito says is encouraging though. Hopefully a cultrual shift can help fight against the Geographical isolation.  

[PegCityCam]

3 hours ago, Güerito said:

Came here to say this and to add Tavio Ciccarelli to the list. Yes, not a pro, but potentially big future ahead for the kid. 

 

Obviously Manitoba isn't a footballing hotbed and the population will never compare to BC or Ontario. But I think you'll start to see more names come about from Manitoba in Ciccarelli's generation and younger (whether that be through Whitecaps catchment, Valour, or those who choose to attempt their luck at Europe like Ciccarelli). There is a significant groundswell of popularity for the game amongst the youth in Manitoba, even moreso than hockey now. 

Oh I believe it. My nephew plays at the U13 premier level and it's pretty obvious that there's some serious coaching and development going on there. Like I said, I believe things began to change in 2010 with WSA and have only really ramped up since Valour came on the scene...kind of an "Oh shit we're legit now" moment for the entire province. Anyways, this is now way off topic lol. Thanks for responding, I'll have to look up this Ciccarelli kid👍

[Obinna]

37 minutes ago, PegCityCam said:

Oh I believe it. My nephew plays at the U13 premier level and it's pretty obvious that there's some serious coaching and development going on there. Like I said, I believe things began to change in 2010 with WSA and have only really ramped up since Valour came on the scene...kind of an "Oh shit we're legit now" moment for the entire province. Anyways, this is now way off topic lol. Thanks for responding, I'll have to look up this Ciccarelli kid👍

I know we are off topic, but I just want to say that it's fantastic to read this. It goes to show what kind of impetus getting a pro team can have. I imagine the same thing has occurred in the Maritimes with the Wanderers.

Interestingly, they seem to have a nice League 1-to-Halifax pipeline, with the coach and the various players over the past few seasons. If not for that I would have the same worries for Halifax, but I guess Halifax is less geographically isolated from Eastern Canada than Winnipeg is.

Many years ago, when I played for the Newfoundland provinicial team, we had a prep camp in Halifax for the tournament, where we played (and lost) to the Nova Scotia provincical team. Meanwhile, the Nova Scotia provinical did a similar thing a few months before, and flew to Ontario to play the Ontario provinical team.

So, there are different levels of isolation in this country, and I would argue Manitoba and Newfoundland are the most disadvantagously isolated provinces in the Canadian soccer landscape. 

Anyway, back to Tani Olu. carry on!

Edited April 30 by Obinna

[Mihairokov]

On 4/27/2024 at 11:36 PM, Shway said:

@PegCityCam To make this more relevant to you....Valour is in their 6th season and out of 100 players that have played for the club only 1 player was a Manitoba product. I also don't even know if there has ever been a player from Manitoba who has played for the national team or abroad. 

Is it a lack of talent? or a lack of genuine opportunities? 
I'm taking the latter.  

Shaffelburg from a smaller province was fortunate to be given the opportunity or else his path would've been very different if he wasn't presented to TFC. 

Just to touch on this, youth sport development is generally a 10-12 year development cycle.

What I mean by this is that it takes roughly a decade for something to show in youth development from a major event happening. Valour arriving doesn't automatically make 15-year olds better at soccer, but Valour arriving does grow interest for kids who are five or six when they arrive. These are the kids growing up with the team, watching the game, and probably getting better youth experience with the talent now in-market. This can be seen in a lot of places, but especially in how Arizona started developing hockey players from the ~1995 age-group onwards, especially the 2000s-onwards years. Also seen in Pittsburgh where they are now developing far more hockey players after the Penguins won the cup with Crosby. Kids watching that cup win are only really twenty-ish today.

For us to really see results from Valour's impact on youth development in Winnipeg we'll need to wait until 2029 or so, when the kids who were in Winnipeg when Valour arrived are entering U18 and U16 footy.

[An Observer]

What a few of you have said about Manitoba and the Maritimes rings true to a certain extent (ie. Geographical isolation, lack of local competition) but they seem to do well for hockey.  Maybe that is just because its the national sport which is not only played competitively in the cities but rurally as well so these players can get local competition even in smaller towns like Brandon or Moncton. But I also wonder about pathways. Manitoban players have been in the NHL since the beginning and probably disproportionately so but they always had access to junior hockey; I don’t remember the Maritimes producing players really for the NHL until the QMJHL started expanding there in the 90s.  So maybe the fact Halifax is in the CPL will both inspire young kids as well as give them a pathway that a Snafleborg didnt have.

[Mihairokov]

1 minute ago, An Observer said:

What a few of you have said about Manitoba and the Maritimes rings true to a certain extent (ie. Geographical isolation, lack of local competition) but they seem to do well for hockey.

Most good Maritimers leave the region at 13 or 14 to play youth hockey elsewhere, either in Ontario or New England.

[Dominic94]

It takes about 5-10 years after the arrival of a pro team to see an impact.

It’s no coincidence that the Canadian mls teams academies saw a talent up tick starting with the 1999 age group, those kids we literally 7-10 years old ish when their cities got mls teams and they developed as a result. However you only saw the results 5 years later… 

[Joe MacCarthy]

1 hour ago, Mihairokov said:

Most good Maritimers leave the region at 13 or 14 to play youth hockey elsewhere, either in Ontario or New England.

There are six Maritime teams in the "Q" and there is the Maritime Junior Hockey League.  New England?

[Mihairokov]

10 minutes ago, Joe MacCarthy said:

There are six Maritime teams in the "Q" and there is the Maritime Junior Hockey League.  New England?

I'm referring to prior them playing in the Q.

Both MacKinnon and Crosby played at Shattuck in Minnesota prior to playing in the Q.
Dawson Mercer played at Bishop's in Sherbrooke.
Alex Newhook played with York-Simcoe in Toronto.

It's not exhaustive but it is common. Prep schools in New England are a common landing spot for players to play NCAA rather than Q. A player like Peter DeLiberatore played at Salisbury School before playing at Quinnipiac.

Edited May 1 by Mihairokov

[Joe MacCarthy]

Until he was 15 Crosby went to school in NS and was at Shattuck-Saint Mary's for only one season and Nate MacKinnon for two.  I've heard of people going to Notre Dame in Wilcox but there's no great groundswell of people going to New England.

Sid only left because he was being harassed by players and parents and that was over 22 years ago.  High school hockey has grown in leaps and bounds as has Bantam programs and there really isn't much need to leave in the few years before junior. 

There seems to be this myth that Maritimers have some attraction to New England because 70-80 years ago some Maritimers followed the Red Sox and later that's where the cable TV emanated from for many.

[narduch]

Just scored to make it 2-0 over Atlanta 

[DeRo_Is_King]

2 minutes ago, narduch said:

Just scored to make it 2-0 over Atlanta 

This guy is fire:

 

[dyslexic nam]

Damn.  This dude went from obscurity to being a regular scorer with some pretty nice strikes.  Crazy.  

[dyslexic nam]

Apparently subbed out 3 minutes after scoring.  Seems a bit odd but who knows.  

[narduch]

2 minutes ago, dyslexic nam said:

Apparently subbed out 3 minutes after scoring.  Seems a bit odd but who knows.  

Replaced by their DP striker Pukki

[toontownman]

Wow. So this kid and JRR should be getting the call for the friendlies. Just to take a look and get him involved. 

[DeRo_Is_King]

14 minutes ago, toontownman said:

Wow. So this kid and JRR should be getting the call for the friendlies. Just to take a look and get him involved. 

Hard to argue, but also, there are so many options right now. Bair and Ugbo should be there. Who gets displaced? 

[Atlantic]

8 minutes ago, DeRo_Is_King said:

Hard to argue, but also, there are so many options right now. Bair and Ugbo should be there. Who gets displaced? 

Take one out the book of the Mighty Ducks and have a flying V of strikers 

[Dominic94]

59 minutes ago, DeRo_Is_King said:

Hard to argue, but also, there are so many options right now. Bair and Ugbo should be there. Who gets displaced? 

Think bair loses out based on the level he’s playing in.

[DeRo_Is_King]

8 hours ago, Dominic94 said:

Think bair loses out based on the level he’s playing in.

Honestly, I don't know. He scored two yesterday, has 15 on the season and is currently tied for third in the league for goals. If he was even a mid-ranking producer, I'd agree. But Bair is playing really well. 

[Dominic94]

3 hours ago, DeRo_Is_King said:

Honestly, I don't know. He scored two yesterday, has 15 on the season and is currently tied for third in the league for goals. If he was even a mid-ranking producer, I'd agree. But Bair is playing really well. 

It’s a fun debate to have. 
 

I mean do you drop Larin ? Snub Tani ? JRR surely has to be there right ? But you’ve also got Ugbo ?

[costarg]

43 minutes ago, Dominic94 said:

It’s a fun debate to have. 
 

I mean do you drop Larin ? Snub Tani ? JRR surely has to be there right ? But you’ve also got Ugbo ?

I love playing couch-manager as much as anyone, but I won't even try to pick the 4 that should go.  Really tough call.  But I will say Larin has dropped a couple of spots based on recent club performances, but there is no way Biello goes through with that based on his history.

[dyslexic nam]

I know this is the Tani thread but JRR is relevant here.   If he is used as an advanced CAM as UT has noted, JRR wouldn’t count towards our striker quotient and that could help make  room for a guy like Tani.  That might help address the logjam of talent we are starting to see up front.  

The crazy part is that if Jebbo gets back on track and signs up for Canada, he could even leapfrog a few of these guys.  Lots of “ifs” but if he is truly at the level of a Championship promotion team or a bottom EPL team (especially given his age), it is hard to imagine that he wouldn’t be in our squad over the long term.     
 

[Kadenge]

Nigeria is stacked at the striker/forward positions, but we can't be complacent with Tani especially if he continues to stay hot. Great size and a finisher. Extended squad for the friendlies please.