Mo Farsi

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

4 minutes ago, Bigandy said:

I think he was 20 when he went to red star. 

Mijatovic has better serbia youth numbers and 6 goals in 24 games for red star when he was 17....

Maybe dating myself a bit with this but definitely had to do a double take after thinking that should read Montenegro and Partizan when I first saw that part. Still would have been Yugoslavia for youth national teams when the famous Mijatovic played though.

[Bigandy]

9 minutes ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

Maybe dating myself a bit with this but definitely had to do a double take after thinking that should read Montenegro and Partizan when I first saw that part. Still would have been Yugoslavia for youth national teams when the famous Mijatovic played though.

Im talking about jovan mijatovic who is currently on red star.... not predrag mijatovic.

[InglewoodJack]

1 hour ago, Bigandy said:

I think he was 20 when he went to red star. 

Mijatovic has better serbia youth numbers and 6 goals in 24 games for red star when he was 17. No serbia caps. no u21 serbia caps. (mitrovic has 5 in 26 as a 20 year old). 

Lucic was playing as a 17 year old for red star and just recently got his first cap for serbia in a friendly that was their B team

slijvic is 18 and included on the next gen list 2022. no serbia caps, no u21 serbia caps 

Nedeljkovic is 17 and getting red star minutes... no call ups... no u21 caps. 

These are just some young guys on red star, I would imagine most of their best youngsters are on better teams. (samardzic, ilic, stevanovic, milovanovic etc). 

Its alot different to kone because of the alternative options. Kone vs MAK, Oso, Piette, fraser etc.... Its pretty clear hes better than all of them and that we havnt had a midfield prospect like him.... probably ever. 

As for saliba, he hasnt been called up yet so its a null point. 

Mitrovic is fighting tadic, mitrovic, etc plus waaaay more prospects who are around his level. 

Kone becomes a starter.... mitrovic is only called up on the dates where his cap ties are in question.... Its a lot different imo. 


Edit: IMO its like the CMNT calling up the best striker from UBC.  Sure hes young and performing at a decent level. But the CMNT is several rungs higher. 

Sure mitrovic is playing well, but hes jumping several levels to be on serbias A squad and theres nothing to suggest he deserves that spot ahead of much better players/prospects

 

It was also generally acknowledged that there was some sketchiness to how Mitrovic committed- he apparently had the Canada switch paperwork in front of him, and Serbia “sweetened the deal” at the last minute and locked him in. Not sure what that even means, but it’s clear they sold him on some extra advantage that we couldn’t offer. Maybe it’s playing time with Red Star, maybe it’s endorsement deals, I dunno. 

with Mitrovic, he’s not having the best season right now, but he scored 8 goals last year including one in the champions league. They started him against City in the champions league this year. I think he’s a lot more 

As for the players you mentioned, Slijvic is on loan with another Belgrade team- very very sharp drop in quality in Serbia when you leave the two big teams and I guess bačka topola. Nedeljkovic has played like 6 games. Mijatovic looks like a good player though, don’t know what happened with him.

 

as for us calling a UBC striker, I think that is way underselling red Star and the importance of that club to Serbian football. It’s more like if we called up TJ Tahid, who played for Forge, and if Forge actually had won 17 Canadian titles since 2000, brought Canada its only champions league title ever, had the same aura in soccer that the Montreal Canadiens have in hockey, except more intense, except they’re still great, except they’re beloved by a massive part of the country, except they still play champions league games against the best clubs in the world, and also, if Forge had ultras sitting in Canadian parliament, direct ties with the national team, and also direct ties with [REDACTED FOR LEGAL PURPOSES]

[Bigandy]

3 minutes ago, InglewoodJack said:

It was also generally acknowledged that there was some sketchiness to how Mitrovic committed- he apparently had the Canada switch paperwork in front of him, and Serbia “sweetened the deal” at the last minute and locked him in. Not sure what that even means, but it’s clear they sold him on some extra advantage that we couldn’t offer. Maybe it’s playing time with Red Star, maybe it’s endorsement deals, I dunno. 

with Mitrovic, he’s not having the best season right now, but he scored 8 goals last year including one in the champions league. They started him against City in the champions league this year. I think he’s a lot more 

As for the players you mentioned, Slijvic is on loan with another Belgrade team- very very sharp drop in quality in Serbia when you leave the two big teams and I guess bačka topola. Nedeljkovic has played like 6 games. Mijatovic looks like a good player though, don’t know what happened with him.

 

as for us calling a UBC striker, I think that is way underselling red Star and the importance of that club to Serbian football. It’s more like if we called up TJ Tahid, who played for Forge, and if Forge actually had won 17 Canadian titles since 2000, brought Canada its only champions league title ever, had the same aura in soccer that the Montreal Canadiens have in hockey, except more intense, except they’re still great, except they’re beloved by a massive part of the country, except they still play champions league games against the best clubs in the world, and also, if Forge had ultras sitting in Canadian parliament, direct ties with the national team, and also direct ties with [REDACTED FOR LEGAL PURPOSES]

Great post and appreciate your knowledge of the belgrade players as I just am taking these players at face/wiki value. 

I guess UBC may be a bit low so maybe an NCAA player? Its hard to make an accurate comparison. My logic:

-Most serbian attackers are on top teams in top 5 leagues (or at least were when mitrovic got capped).

-Going from guys on juve to lower end teams in top 5 league to a league like belguim to the serbian league is so many steps on the ladder. Mitrovic may be able to skip the belguim step and go to an ajax/porto, then to a fulham and then a juve type team, but thats such a big step and so unknown where he will cap out. It just seems ludicrous that he gets a call up to serbia after 2 months of being with red star where he had 3 starts only, 6 sub appearances and rode the bench 3 times.  If you cant consistently start for red star, you shouldnt be anywhere near making your serbia debut. 

Tahid just needs to go from CPL to MLS and hes on par with half our squad. Thats one step on the ladder. maybe 2 if you say he has to be one of the best players on any team in the mls to get a call up. 

[InglewoodJack]

6 minutes ago, Bigandy said:

Great post and appreciate your knowledge of the belgrade players as I just am taking these players at face/wiki value. 

I guess UBC may be a bit low so maybe an NCAA player? Its hard to make an accurate comparison. My logic:

-Most serbian attackers are on top teams in top 5 leagues (or at least were when mitrovic got capped).

-Going from guys on juve to lower end teams in top 5 league to a league like belguim to the serbian league is so many steps on the ladder. Mitrovic may be able to skip the belguim step and go to an ajax/porto, then to a fulham and then a juve type team, but thats such a big step and so unknown where he will cap out. It just seems ludicrous that he gets a call up to serbia after 2 months of being with red star where he had 3 starts only, 6 sub appearances and rode the bench 3 times.  If you cant consistently start for red star, you shouldnt be anywhere near making your serbia debut. 

Tahid just needs to go from CPL to MLS and hes on par with half our squad. Thats one step on the ladder. maybe 2 if you say he has to be one of the best players on any team in the mls to get a call up. 

I think the comp between Red Star and Forge if Forge were an icon of Canadian sport and the only team in the country that could compete against the best clubs in the world (sorta) is a good comp. Red Star is not the team they were in 1990, but they’re extremely important to the sport in Serbia and to their culture in general. I‘m sure you can make a comparison to an 18 year old player breaking through with Celtic. At the time all this was happening for Mitrovic, there were rumours he was being scouted by I think Malmo, some Belgian clubs too, his father mentioned Barcelona was sniffing around (whether we believe that is another story), but he wasn’t just some kid who made his way up the Serbian football system and eventually got a shot at Red Star- he was a very highly sought after prospect with a ton of interest in signing him. Clearly two national teams wanted him too.

I do think that the fact that Mitrovic was apparently ready to commit to Canada did make Serbia move a lot quicker on him and that’s maybe why he got cap tied, but it’s not cynical beyond reason to give a 19 (20?) year old kid on RS a shot at playing I believe a single euro qualifier game. 
 

Tahid can make it to MLS and become a bonafide CANMNT level player, but Mitrovic can also bag 15G/5A and end up I don’t know… Girona? Sporting? Freiburg? It hasn’t happened this year, but one good season for that club and he can also make a big leap.

Also, re: what I originally said about Kone- while he’s absolutely better than any of our mids not named Eustaquio, that wasn’t apparent when he was first called up. I think he had 7 total professional games under his belt when he was first named to our roster. When he was called, there was still very much a chance he went down the Ballou Tabla path. It didn’t and he quickly proved he’s that guy, but Mitrovic could’ve also proved that and kept getting calls too.

[Bigandy]

3 minutes ago, InglewoodJack said:

I think the comp between Red Star and Forge if Forge were an icon of Canadian sport and the only team in the country that could compete against the best clubs in the world (sorta) is a good comp. Red Star is not the team they were in 1990, but they’re extremely important to the sport in Serbia and to their culture in general. I‘m sure you can make a comparison to an 18 year old player breaking through with Celtic. At the time all this was happening for Mitrovic, there were rumours he was being scouted by I think Malmo, some Belgian clubs too, his father mentioned Barcelona was sniffing around (whether we believe that is another story), but he wasn’t just some kid who made his way up the Serbian football system and eventually got a shot at Red Star- he was a very highly sought after prospect with a ton of interest in signing him. Clearly two national teams wanted him too.

I do think that the fact that Mitrovic was apparently ready to commit to Canada did make Serbia move a lot quicker on him and that’s maybe why he got cap tied, but it’s not cynical beyond reason to give a 19 (20?) year old kid on RS a shot at playing I believe a single euro qualifier game. 
 

Tahid can make it to MLS and become a bonafide CANMNT level player, but Mitrovic can also bag 15G/5A and end up I don’t know… Girona? Sporting? Freiburg? It hasn’t happened this year, but one good season for that club and he can also make a big leap.

Also, re: what I originally said about Kone- while he’s absolutely better than any of our mids not named Eustaquio, that wasn’t apparent when he was first called up. I think he had 7 total professional games under his belt when he was first named to our roster. When he was called, there was still very much a chance he went down the Ballou Tabla path. It didn’t and he quickly proved he’s that guy, but Mitrovic could’ve also proved that and kept getting calls too.

Everything you say about red star is something i agree with.... however red star is a stepping stone. I just went through serbias wikipedia page and I believe only 3 players ever got called up to serbia while on red star.
-Radonjic who made one sub appearance for serbia while on red star and he moved that year to marseille. 
- Erakovic who played 3 seasons with red star starting at age 18. 
- mladenovic who played 3 seasons with red star when he got his serbia debut. 

Only 3 examples of players who overlapped their time with red star and serbia, 2 are in weaker positions and all 3 had significant experience and/or moved on to better teams within the year of their senior cap. All the other red star players had to move onto better teams before serbia called them up.  

Mitrovic had 3 starts for red star and gets called up? Not a single other player had that luxury..... (vlahovic didnt even get a call up while at partizan, jovic didnt at red star) Is he a generational talent or was it extremely cycnical? Sure, if he has one good season and goes to frieburg then hes worthy of a callup....which is what all the other serbian players did to earn call ups. Im just saying that 3 starts is an astronomically lower bar than a guy like vlahovic and jovic had. 

As for Kone, the second he played for CMNT it was apparent he was playing as our second/ maybe 3rd best midfielder. We didnt know if he would sustain that level or improve but he 100% was ready to contribute to CMNT during his call up. Mitrovic obviously wasnt as he was only called up when he was about to sign for canada and right after his 21 bday.  No other call ups in between.... 

[Obinna]

8 minutes ago, Bigandy said:

Everything you say about red star is something i agree with.... however red star is a stepping stone. I just went through serbias wikipedia page and I believe only 3 players ever got called up to serbia while on red star.
-Radonjic who made one sub appearance for serbia while on red star and he moved that year to marseille. 
- Erakovic who played 3 seasons with red star starting at age 18. 
- mladenovic who played 3 seasons with red star when he got his serbia debut. 

Only 3 examples of players who overlapped their time with red star and serbia, 2 are in weaker positions and all 3 had significant experience and/or moved on to better teams within the year of their senior cap. All the other red star players had to move onto better teams before serbia called them up.  

Mitrovic had 3 starts for red star and gets called up? Not a single other player had that luxury..... (vlahovic didnt even get a call up while at partizan, jovic didnt at red star) Is he a generational talent or was it extremely cycnical? Sure, if he has one good season and goes to frieburg then hes worthy of a callup....which is what all the other serbian players did to earn call ups. Im just saying that 3 starts is an astronomically lower bar than a guy like vlahovic and jovic had. 

As for Kone, the second he played for CMNT it was apparent he was playing as our second/ maybe 3rd best midfielder. We didnt know if he would sustain that level or improve but he 100% was ready to contribute to CMNT during his call up. Mitrovic obviously wasnt as he was only called up when he was about to sign for canada and right after his 21 bday.  No other call ups in between.... 

You're missing former Chicago Fire DP Katai. During his first spell with Red Star he got NT calls. Looks like he earned 4-7 caps during that time. Too lazy to dig in and give you precise numbers. He's on his second spell now at the club and once again scoring tons of goals, but no NT calls which at 32 years old is probably understandable. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aleksandar_Katai

[Bigandy]

29 minutes ago, Obinna said:

You're missing former Chicago Fire DP Katai. During his first spell with Red Star he got NT calls. Looks like he earned 4-7 caps during that time. Too lazy to dig in and give you precise numbers. He's on his second spell now at the club and once again scoring tons of goals, but no NT calls which at 32 years old is probably understandable. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aleksandar_Katai

aleksander katai isnt listed on the wiki page of serbias national team which is the criterion I used. He was also established in other leagues, was 24 and getting regular minutes at red star and moved to la liga that year he was called up. A much different example to mitrovic. 

However, great point -it can still count as another example. its a bit tough to have an accurate data set if we are expanding this to non current squad members though as the line of what is and isnt relevant data is arbitrary. 

Its also not my argument to say that red star doesnt get players called up, but rather that youngsters with no experience do not get called up from red star until they are much more proven/move to a better league. 

 

Edited December 13, 2023 by Bigandy

[InglewoodJack]

1 hour ago, Bigandy said:

Everything you say about red star is something i agree with.... however red star is a stepping stone. I just went through serbias wikipedia page and I believe only 3 players ever got called up to serbia while on red star.
-Radonjic who made one sub appearance for serbia while on red star and he moved that year to marseille. 
- Erakovic who played 3 seasons with red star starting at age 18. 
- mladenovic who played 3 seasons with red star when he got his serbia debut. 

Only 3 examples of players who overlapped their time with red star and serbia, 2 are in weaker positions and all 3 had significant experience and/or moved on to better teams within the year of their senior cap. All the other red star players had to move onto better teams before serbia called them up.  

Mitrovic had 3 starts for red star and gets called up? Not a single other player had that luxury..... (vlahovic didnt even get a call up while at partizan, jovic didnt at red star) Is he a generational talent or was it extremely cycnical? Sure, if he has one good season and goes to frieburg then hes worthy of a callup....which is what all the other serbian players did to earn call ups. Im just saying that 3 starts is an astronomically lower bar than a guy like vlahovic and jovic had. 

As for Kone, the second he played for CMNT it was apparent he was playing as our second/ maybe 3rd best midfielder. We didnt know if he would sustain that level or improve but he 100% was ready to contribute to CMNT during his call up. Mitrovic obviously wasnt as he was only called up when he was about to sign for canada and right after his 21 bday.  No other call ups in between.... 

if you check Red Star’s wiki page, they have a list of notable club players- clicking through a bunch, over half have caps for Serbia. RS (and Partizan) are not traditional development grounds for national team players, but it isn’t completely out of left field for a young red star player to get called up to the NT. I do think there’s an aspect of rushing him so Canada doesn’t grab him, but it’s not as crazy as if say, we capped Pacius because of the recent rumour that Haiti is interested. I don’t even think it’s as shocking as if England decided to go all in on LDF and give him a cap. 
 

To your point about Kone, he very much was an unknown quantity at the time. He looked good and captured the opportunity, but he did have rough moments during that first Montreal season. It wouldn’t have been shocking to see him never reach the level he’s currently at. We gave him a shot because he might be good in the future- which he was- and because he was also eligible for CIV, though I don’t know if that was ever a thing. Him contributing right away for Canada was still somewhat of a pleasant surprise though. We certainly weren’t penciling him in as a starter until he had a few NT caps. 
 

I think we generally agree here, just disagree on how earned this cap was. I think that if Mitrovic really didn’t have much potential, they’d have let us have him or they’d put him through the youth system first. We rushed Serbia, but he earned the attention he got. 
 

Funny, I write this as time is expiring in the City x Red Star game- 3-2 City in Belgrade, so a close game. Mitrovic an unused sub. The aforementioned Katai Lucic, and Mijatovic all came off the bench, with Katai scoring. FotMob has Mitrovic listed as a CB, but I think they’re mixing him up with the older CB Stefan Mitrovic. 
 

 

[Bigandy]

55 minutes ago, InglewoodJack said:

if you check Red Star’s wiki page, they have a list of notable club players- clicking through a bunch, over half have caps for Serbia. RS (and Partizan) are not traditional development grounds for national team players, but it isn’t completely out of left field for a young red star player to get called up to the NT. I do think there’s an aspect of rushing him so Canada doesn’t grab him, but it’s not as crazy as if say, we capped Pacius because of the recent rumour that Haiti is interested. I don’t even think it’s as shocking as if England decided to go all in on LDF and give him a cap. 
 

To your point about Kone, he very much was an unknown quantity at the time. He looked good and captured the opportunity, but he did have rough moments during that first Montreal season. It wouldn’t have been shocking to see him never reach the level he’s currently at. We gave him a shot because he might be good in the future- which he was- and because he was also eligible for CIV, though I don’t know if that was ever a thing. Him contributing right away for Canada was still somewhat of a pleasant surprise though. We certainly weren’t penciling him in as a starter until he had a few NT caps. 
 

I think we generally agree here, just disagree on how earned this cap was. I think that if Mitrovic really didn’t have much potential, they’d have let us have him or they’d put him through the youth system first. We rushed Serbia, but he earned the attention he got. 
 

Funny, I write this as time is expiring in the City x Red Star game- 3-2 City in Belgrade, so a close game. Mitrovic an unused sub. The aforementioned Katai Lucic, and Mijatovic all came off the bench, with Katai scoring. FotMob has Mitrovic listed as a CB, but I think they’re mixing him up with the older CB Stefan Mitrovic. 
 

 

We are for sure on the same page and just arguing semantics. I just find it hard to look at serbias roster with 0 red star players on it, and the guy who gets called up from red star is a player with 3 starts but mostly a bench player (at the time of his first cap...and even today vs city). Hes competing with a guy like tadic or jovic for a spot on the squad and hes much further from them then say pacius to JRR IMO. 

100% agree with kone prior to his cap... the second he touched the field, he was arguably in our top 2 CM's though. Mitrovic touches the field for serbia and they have zero interest in him again until they have a chance to recap-tie him. 

 

[InglewoodJack]

40 minutes ago, Bigandy said:

We are for sure on the same page and just arguing semantics. I just find it hard to look at serbias roster with 0 red star players on it, and the guy who gets called up from red star is a player with 3 starts but mostly a bench player (at the time of his first cap...and even today vs city). Hes competing with a guy like tadic or jovic for a spot on the squad and hes much further from them then say pacius to JRR IMO. 

100% agree with kone prior to his cap... the second he touched the field, he was arguably in our top 2 CM's though. Mitrovic touches the field for serbia and they have zero interest in him again until they have a chance to recap-tie him. 

 

I think they do/did see Mitrovic as a prospect who is destined for big things, and also someone who could have made that Canada squad too. But in any case, his club play certainly isn’t earning him any additional Serbia calls any time soon. I think his most recent call up ties him permanently to them now though? Shame.

[Obinna]

3 hours ago, Bigandy said:

aleksander katai isnt listed on the wiki page of serbias national team which is the criterion I used. He was also established in other leagues, was 24 and getting regular minutes at red star and moved to la liga that year he was called up. A much different example to mitrovic. 

However, great point -it can still count as another example. its a bit tough to have an accurate data set if we are expanding this to non current squad members though as the line of what is and isnt relevant data is arbitrary. 

Its also not my argument to say that red star doesnt get players called up, but rather that youngsters with no experience do not get called up from red star until they are much more proven/move to a better league. 

 

Wasn't tracking the whole convo, was just skimming and that popped out at me.

Appreciate the explaination nonetheless!

[Aird25]

 

[toontownman]

Probably get paid treble in UAE but surely a sideways move at best. Hope the Ligue 1 or even 2 interest comes. 

[Olympique_de_Marseille]

I don't think anybody posted this Olivier Tremblay article last month:

https://ici.radio-canada.ca/sports/2034812/soccer-mls-crew-columbus

[InglewoodJack]

Gets a little French attention and all of a sudden he questions his future with Canada, lol

[Shway]

2 hours ago, InglewoodJack said:

Gets a little French attention and all of a sudden he questions his future with Canada, lol

Did I miss something in the article? 
None of that was stated or asked, or are you going off the premise of him declining a call last year?

[nolando]

3 hours ago, Olympique_de_Marseille said:

I don't think anybody posted this Olivier Tremblay article last month:

https://ici.radio-canada.ca/sports/2034812/soccer-mls-crew-columbus

Good stuff but how does the journalist not get a quote on his national team future...smh.

[InglewoodJack]

34 minutes ago, Shway said:

Did I miss something in the article? 
None of that was stated or asked, or are you going off the premise of him declining a call last year?

Going off the tweet above, hadn’t read the article when I posted that. 

[ADP10]

apparently he is in Dubai right now

[InglewoodJack]

Saw this cool graph about top U25 wingbacks over the last 3 seasons for chance creation and assist creation on a post about Buchanan’s transfer:

https://x.com/soccerment_blog/status/1742200679605621118?s=46&t=spIaqlQfufAO3HreB1455Q
 

You can also see Mo Farsi is pretty high up in the “good” quadrant alongside Davies, and Liam Millar is also pretty close to TB too:

[Stryker911]

13 minutes ago, InglewoodJack said:

Saw this cool graph about top U25 wingbacks over the last 3 seasons for chance creation and assist creation on a post about Buchanan’s transfer:

https://x.com/soccerment_blog/status/1742200679605621118?s=46&t=spIaqlQfufAO3HreB1455Q
 

You can also see Mo Farsi is pretty high up in the “good” quadrant alongside Davies, and Liam Millar is also pretty close to TB too:

Kadioglu is there as well. Now one of the most valuable players in Turkey 

[K Edgar]

18 hours ago, ADP10 said:

apparently he is in Dubai right now

With Valour's GK, Yesli

[costarg]

Anyone else getting the meh feeling from Farsi now?  If his ambition is to play in UAE at 24, I feel it's pretty clear where his head lies.

[Bigandy]

9 minutes ago, costarg said:

Anyone else getting the meh feeling from Farsi now?  If his ambition is to play in UAE at 24, I feel it's pretty clear where his head lies.

Hes just not good enough imo to warrant this dual controversy. He never makes our A squad. There may be small windows of opportunities but whos to say sigur franklin ldf etc dont seize those moments. 

He's just meh to me.