Mo Farsi

[Kadenge]

55 minutes ago, Obinna said:

Fair enough except he's already played for Croatia's youth team. The question shouldn't be "is he gone" the question should be "will he leave (Croatia)"? And what exactly would make him leave? He's on the path to make his full senior international debut, it's just a matter of time. 

I just don't see many straws to grasp on here. Farsi is actually more likely in my mind, simply because he's yet to represent either nation (unless you include futsal). There are exceptions, but playing youth national team games is generally a good predictor of where the player will end up. That's why we need youth games. 

Farsi played for our U23 team in Concacaf OQ

[Bigandy]

1 hour ago, Obinna said:

Fair enough except he's already played for Croatia's youth team. The question shouldn't be "is he gone" the question should be "will he leave (Croatia)"? And what exactly would make him leave? He's on the path to make his full senior international debut, it's just a matter of time. 

I just don't see many straws to grasp on here. Farsi is actually more likely in my mind, simply because he's yet to represent either nation (unless you include futsal). There are exceptions, but playing youth national team games is generally a good predictor of where the player will end up. That's why we need youth games. 

100% this! 

[Obinna]

11 minutes ago, Kadenge said:

Farsi played for our U23 team in Concacaf OQ

Oh right. Totally forgot about that. He was a late call IIRC and came on as a sub for a single match. Ditto with Abzi. Two guys who are looking to play with other countries. Two guys who deserved the call from the beginning. Coincidence? Looking at it now, the guys they replaced were Twardek and TMG, one guy going back to CPL and another guy still in CPL with Pacific. Do these guys have a chip on their shoulder because of that?

[Kadenge]

18 minutes ago, Obinna said:

Oh right. Totally forgot about that. He was a late call IIRC and came on as a sub for a single match. Ditto with Abzi. Two guys who are looking to play with other countries. Two guys who deserved the call from the beginning. Coincidence? Looking at it now, the guys they replaced were Twardek and TMG, one guy going back to CPL and another guy still in CPL with Pacific. Do these guys have a chip on their shoulder because of that?

Perhaps they do have a chip on their shoulder, but the CPL gave them both their pro starts and Farsi was called for the GC. JRR is on the same club and getting fewer mins but has been capped by Canada at both GC and v Jamaica. Different positions and yes we have depth at FB but look at the decision Aidan Morris made. He is prepared to fight for a spot on the US team. Playing in the WC in your home country should be a dream for any footballer.

[Bigandy]

39 minutes ago, Obinna said:

Oh right. Totally forgot about that. He was a late call IIRC and came on as a sub for a single match. Ditto with Abzi. Two guys who are looking to play with other countries. Two guys who deserved the call from the beginning. Coincidence? Looking at it now, the guys they replaced were Twardek and TMG, one guy going back to CPL and another guy still in CPL with Pacific. Do these guys have a chip on their shoulder because of that?

A bit strange to say croatia has the upper hand on sigur because he was on their youth team, yet the other countries have the upper hand because abzi and farsi played for canadas youth teams. 

[Obinna]

7 minutes ago, Bigandy said:

A bit strange to say croatia has the upper hand on sigur because he was on their youth team, yet the other countries have the upper hand because abzi and farsi played for canadas youth teams. 

The difference here is that Sigur has given no indication he wants to leave the Croatian set up. He hasn't turned down any calls from the Croatia senior team. Farsi and Abzi have both turned down calls to the Canadian senior team because they are contemplating a switch from the Canadian set up. 

[Obinna]

25 minutes ago, Kadenge said:

Perhaps they do have a chip on their shoulder, but the CPL gave them both their pro starts and Farsi was called for the GC. JRR is on the same club and getting fewer mins but has been capped by Canada at both GC and v Jamaica. Different positions and yes we have depth at FB but look at the decision Aidan Morris made. He is prepared to fight for a spot on the US team. Playing in the WC in your home country should be a dream for any footballer.

I am sure Farsi and Abzi share that dream, but in this context Canada is not definitively their "home country". Hopefully that changes because we could use both.

[Bigandy]

5 minutes ago, Obinna said:

The difference here is that Sigur has given no indication he wants to leave the Croatian set up. He hasn't turned down any calls from the Croatia senior team. Farsi and Abzi have both turned down calls to the Canadian senior team because they are contemplating a switch from the Canadian set up. 

This is only true because abzi (did abzi get a call even) and farsi are further along in their development from CMNT youth to senior. Who's to say sigur doesnt turn down a call up from croatia today to see if its a cycnical cap tie or not? 

Im also only talking about the impact playing for a youth team has in giving an advantage to the senior team.... So thats the time between farsi and abzi being on the youth team but before a sr team call up. You said that their youth experience may be a disadvantage for us but used the opposite logic on sigur. 

[Obinna]

38 minutes ago, Bigandy said:

Im also only talking about the impact playing for a youth team has in giving an advantage to the senior team.... So thats the time between farsi and abzi being on the youth team but before a sr team call up. You said that their youth experience may be a disadvantage for us but used the opposite logic on sigur. 

First of all, Sigur already has more international youth caps than Farsi and Abzi combined. He's obviously more entrentched in the Croatian system than Farsi/Abzi were with Canada.

Secondly, that youth experience was at the U23 level, not the U21 level, so Croatia has more runway to entrench Sigur than we had with Farsi/Abzi. That doesn't bode well for us.

Thirdly, both of these guys were late additions due to injury, not even part of the initial squad. Since then they've obviously gone on to far more success than the guys who were picked ahead of them. If we are keeping score, that's probably not a point for Canada.

48 minutes ago, Bigandy said:

This is only true because abzi (did abzi get a call even) and farsi are further along in their development from CMNT youth to senior. Who's to say sigur doesnt turn down a call up from croatia today to see if its a cycnical cap tie or not? 

Who's to say he does? 

By the way, Abzi did recieve a call and turned it down, I believe. In fact, didn't Sigur reject the Gold Cup call too?

[IceCreamMan]

The odds of Sigur cracking the Croatia senior setup seem quite long to me. U21 Caps are far from a guarantee of senior caps. He may hold out for a while, but I would have to think Canada gets a look at some point. 

[Bigandy]

3 minutes ago, Obinna said:

First of all, Sigur already has more international youth caps than Farsi and Abzi combined. He's obviously more entrentched in the Croatian system than Farsi/Abzi were with Canada.

Secondly, that youth experience was at the U23 level, not the U21 level, so Croatia has more runway to entrench Sigur than we had with Farsi/Abzi. That doesn't bode well for us.

Thirdly, both of these guys were late additions due to injury, not even part of the initial squad. Since then they've obviously gone on to far more success than the guys who were picked ahead of them. If we are keeping score, that's probably not a point for Canada.

 

If youre argument is that abzi and farsi have little experience as back up players for Canadian youth teams and that works against us, then I fully agree.  Im debating the stance that playing for canadas youth teams worked against us, but if the stance is "they didnt play enough or were appreciated enough in the youth teams", then im on board. 
 

10 minutes ago, Obinna said:

Who's to say he does? 

By the way, Abzi did recieve a call and turned it down, I believe. In fact, didn't Sigur reject the Gold Cup call too?

I think the unknown is my point. We dont know where sigurs head is at and therefore its hard to make the comparison with farsi and abzi that you were saying. 

My understanding is both were included on the provisional squad. I never heard about either making the final squad and rejecting it (although i heard rumors on this board that herdman reached out to sigur and gave him a pre-invite which was rejected). I did hear that farsi rejected the call though.  

 

[Obinna]

32 minutes ago, IceCreamMan said:

The odds of Sigur cracking the Croatia senior setup seem quite long to me. U21 Caps are far from a guarantee of senior caps. He may hold out for a while, but I would have to think Canada gets a look at some point. 

I guess Serbia aren't Croatia but Mitrovic cracked the senior team pretty quickly.

And of course, U21 is far from a guarantee of senior caps, but he has 6 of them already and plays regularly for the number 2nd biggest club in Croatia. Some of his clubmates have Croatian senior caps. It's not like Jebbison and England where he's not realistically on the path to a senior call up. How often do England call players from Sheffield United? I am counting 3 players from his club who've been capped in just the past 12 months.

That's not to say he's gone, but I just push back on @Bigandy giving it 51/49 odds. I just don't see it. Hope I am wrong but I see it more like 20/80. Again, already in their system, playing in their country, playing for one of the biggest clubs that has players in the current pool. If anything I think 20 is putting our chances too high.

Am I being too pessimistic? Aside from thinking he's not good enough for Croatia, is there anything else I can cling on to?

[Obinna]

55 minutes ago, Bigandy said:

If youre argument is that abzi and farsi have little experience as back up players for Canadian youth teams and that works against us, then I fully agree. 

Yep, that is definitely part of my point. 

55 minutes ago, Bigandy said:

"they didnt play enough or were appreciated enough in the youth teams", then im on board. 

Yes it is this for me. Both should have played a bigger role. 

[Obinna]

1 hour ago, Bigandy said:

My understanding is both were included on the provisional squad. I never heard about either making the final squad and rejecting it (although i heard rumors on this board that herdman reached out to sigur and gave him a pre-invite which was rejected). I did hear that farsi rejected the call though.  

Someone can correct me if I am wrong but I believe all 3 were on the provisonal roster and that Farsi rejected a call to the final roster. I think Abzi and Sigur rejecting a call may have been conjecture, but we can read between the lines. The prevailing thought out there seems to be that Abzi and Farsi are waiting for other countries and Sigur is already playing youth ball for another country.

I hope all 3 play with us but I don't think any of them will based on how things are looking. 

[Bigandy]

3 minutes ago, Obinna said:

I guess Serbia aren't Croatia but Mitrovic cracked the senior team pretty quickly.

And of course, U21 is far from a guarantee of senior caps, but he has 6 of them already and plays regularly for the number 2nd biggest club in Croatia. Some of his clubmates have Croatian senior caps. It's not like Jebbison and England where he's not realistically on the path to a senior call up. How often do England call players from Sheffield United? I am counting 3 players from his club who've been capped in just the past 12 months.

That's not to say he's gone, but I just push back on @Bigandy giving it 51/49 odds. I just don't see it. Hope I am wrong but I see it more like 20/80. Again, already in their system, playing in their country, playing for one of the biggest clubs that has players in the current pool. If anything I think 20 is putting our chances too high.

Am I being too pessimistic? Aside from thinking he's not good enough for Croatia, is there anything else I can cling on to?

I might be too pessimistic over his chances to play for croatia and thats why I see it being a coin toss. 

3 bundesliga contracted RB ahead of him. 
CM- modric, brozovic, kovacic, majer, vlasic, ivanusec, jakic, basic etc. granted a few are phasing out but I dont know anything about their prospects. 

Basic with 16 youth croatia caps, 60 appearances for hajduk split, and over 125 top 5 league appearances only has 2 caps for croatia in 2020. 

I have a hard time seeing sigur crack croatia. Possible, but he needs to be a top top player and I think he will just be a good player. 

[Bigandy]

10 minutes ago, Obinna said:

I guess Serbia aren't Croatia but Mitrovic cracked the senior team pretty quickly.

And of course, U21 is far from a guarantee of senior caps, but he has 6 of them already and plays regularly for the number 2nd biggest club in Croatia. Some of his clubmates have Croatian senior caps. It's not like Jebbison and England where he's not realistically on the path to a senior call up. How often do England call players from Sheffield United? I am counting 3 players from his club who've been capped in just the past 12 months.

That's not to say he's gone, but I just push back on @Bigandy giving it 51/49 odds. I just don't see it. Hope I am wrong but I see it more like 20/80. Again, already in their system, playing in their country, playing for one of the biggest clubs that has players in the current pool. If anything I think 20 is putting our chances too high.

Am I being too pessimistic? Aside from thinking he's not good enough for Croatia, is there anything else I can cling on to?

Mitrovic has an asterisk because of the cynical nature.... I am shocked that mitrovic is even on the radar of serbia that they want to cap tie him.... 

Vlahovic, tadic, mitrovic, samardzic, kostic, zivkovic, jovic, lazovic, radonjic, markovic, all are guys with much more experience and playing at a higher level. With serbia playing a 3-5-2 recently, it really hurts mitrovics chance of starting as hes not really a wingback or striker and im not sure hes near the conversation at CAM. 

Of course theres a case for mitrovic but only because hes a dual.... otherwise I think hes 100% overlooked. 

[Obinna]

11 minutes ago, Bigandy said:

Mitrovic has an asterisk because of the cynical nature.... I am shocked that mitrovic is even on the radar of serbia that they want to cap tie him.... 

But why put an asterisk there? The prospect of a cynical cap is definitely in play, no? You mentioned it yourself upthread. 

20 minutes ago, Bigandy said:

I might be too pessimistic over his chances to play for croatia and thats why I see it being a coin toss. 
 

I think it comes down to how much he has to do to get a cap, not to be a regular fixture in the Croatian side.

And for me I don't think he'll have to do a whole lot more. Croatia aren't Brazil where you have to be in a top 5 league at minimum (or a Porto or Ajax type club). All it takes is for him to play for them once to put any prospect of Sigur with Canada into a serious doubt, if not an impossibility. 

[narduch]

The Crew picked up Mo's option for 2024.

They also confirmed Gressel is not returning 

[Stoppage Time]

2 hours ago, Obinna said:

 

I hope all 3 play with us but I don't think any of them will based on how things are looking. 

For which country could Abzi play? Thanks.

[Mihairokov]

28 minutes ago, Stoppage Time said:

For which country could Abzi play? Thanks.

Abzi was born in Morocco.

[Stoppage Time]

Is Ali Musse of Cavalry a dual national, or is he only eligible for Somalia? Sorry to be a bit off Farsi's thread.

[VinceA]

10 minutes ago, Stoppage Time said:

Is Ali Musse of Cavalry a dual national, or is he only eligible for Somalia? Sorry to be a bit off Farsi's thread.

Ali was a Dual National but he's since played for Somalia. He's repped us at the u17 level.

[MtlMario]

If all these guys mentioned did in fact reject call ups I have 2 words for them.

[InglewoodJack]

15 hours ago, Bigandy said:

Mitrovic has an asterisk because of the cynical nature.... I am shocked that mitrovic is even on the radar of serbia that they want to cap tie him.... 

19 year old player scoring goals for their biggest domestic club, that’s worth a call up. I get we’re not Serbia, but no different from us capping Kone or demanding Nathan Saliba get calls because they performed well for Montreal as teenagers. 
 

The reason I’ve completely ignored Sigur and think we have a <5% chance of capping him is that unlike every other dual national that we’ve lost, he’s made zero indication that he has any interest in Canada. No Canadian flag in the social media bio. Never been called, never mentioned Canada in any interview. From the soccer perspective, he seems as Canadian as Yassine Bounou is- in other words, a guy that was born here but never in our plans and we were never in his.

Would be a fantastic coup, but my guess is if he doesn’t crack Croatia’s team, he’ll slide so far that he probably wouldn’t crack ours either.

[Bigandy]

55 minutes ago, InglewoodJack said:

19 year old player scoring goals for their biggest domestic club, that’s worth a call up. I get we’re not Serbia, but no different from us capping Kone or demanding Nathan Saliba get calls because they performed well for Montreal as teenagers. 
 

The reason I’ve completely ignored Sigur and think we have a <5% chance of capping him is that unlike every other dual national that we’ve lost, he’s made zero indication that he has any interest in Canada. No Canadian flag in the social media bio. Never been called, never mentioned Canada in any interview. From the soccer perspective, he seems as Canadian as Yassine Bounou is- in other words, a guy that was born here but never in our plans and we were never in his.

Would be a fantastic coup, but my guess is if he doesn’t crack Croatia’s team, he’ll slide so far that he probably wouldn’t crack ours either.

I think he was 20 when he went to red star. 

Mijatovic has better serbia youth numbers and 6 goals in 24 games for red star when he was 17. No serbia caps. no u21 serbia caps. (mitrovic has 5 in 26 as a 20 year old). 

Lucic was playing as a 17 year old for red star and just recently got his first cap for serbia in a friendly that was their B team

slijvic is 18 and included on the next gen list 2022. no serbia caps, no u21 serbia caps 

Nedeljkovic is 17 and getting red star minutes... no call ups... no u21 caps. 

These are just some young guys on red star, I would imagine most of their best youngsters are on better teams. (samardzic, ilic, stevanovic, milovanovic etc). 

Its alot different to kone because of the alternative options. Kone vs MAK, Oso, Piette, fraser etc.... Its pretty clear hes better than all of them and that we havnt had a midfield prospect like him.... probably ever. 

As for saliba, he hasnt been called up yet so its a null point. 

Mitrovic is fighting tadic, mitrovic, etc plus waaaay more prospects who are around his level. 

Kone becomes a starter.... mitrovic is only called up on the dates where his cap ties are in question.... Its a lot different imo. 


Edit: IMO its like the CMNT calling up the best striker from UBC.  Sure hes young and performing at a decent level. But the CMNT is several rungs higher. 

Sure mitrovic is playing well, but hes jumping several levels to be on serbias A squad and theres nothing to suggest he deserves that spot ahead of much better players/prospects

 

Edited December 13, 2023 by Bigandy