Alistair Johnston

[nolando]

1 hour ago, shorty said:

Cool. Pat Onstad is there as well. Tom Pinkerton was on the 96 team. He played at Queens and his whole family were good too. I played with his younger brothers Rich and Andrew in high school (Tom had graduated already)

A Johnston was also listed as the coach. I wonder if that is his grandfather? 

[BearcatSA]

4 hours ago, nolando said:

I think it's likely his dad is a fellow by the same name who won the  Canadian Challenge Cup with Vancouver Westside Rhinos in 93 and 96. Same general group as John Catliff, Steve Kindel, Colin Elmes: https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://bcsoccer.net/files/MemberService/BC%20Teams%20Winning%20CSA%20Club%20Championships%20-%20Games%20and%20Team%20Details%20-%20web.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwiO5cbvr5j1AhUDNH0KHURNBAAQFnoECAMQAQ&usg=AOvVaw3C5sNRRWxG8OwxJkGH1BYD

All those Vancouver based teams winning:  boy, contrast that now with the ranks of Lower Mainland/Vancouver raised players in our MNT.

[Aird25]

10 minutes ago, BearcatSA said:

All those Vancouver based teams winning:  boy, contrast that now with the ranks of Lower Mainland/Vancouver raised players in our MNT.

Pacific just won our national league with a bunch of players from the Lower Mainland/Vancouver

[BearcatSA]

2 minutes ago, Aird25 said:

Pacific just won our national league with a bunch of players from the Lower Mainland/Vancouver

Do it some more to buck the trend.

[Corazon]

5 minutes ago, Aird25 said:

Pacific just won our national league with a bunch of players from the Lower Mainland/Vancouver

I think he was also referring to Lower Mainland/Vancouver raised players in our MNT (as mentioned in the original post).  No players from Pacific FC are a part of our MNT program right now.

Edited January 4, 2022 by Corazon

[BearcatSA]

15 minutes ago, Corazon said:

I think he was also referring to Lower Mainland/Vancouver raised players in our MNT (as mentioned in the original post).  No players from Pacific FC are a part of our MNT program right now.

This.

[Aird25]

21 minutes ago, Corazon said:

I think he was also referring to Lower Mainland/Vancouver raised players in our MNT (as mentioned in the original post).  No players from Pacific FC are a part of our MNT program right now.

I know, but those seem like very different contexts. Has BC really dropped, or is Ontario just stronger than ever. I presume Pacific/BC players would be more prevalent in the national team if Ontario wasn't on a peak/wave in terms of player development. Though perhaps I'm wrong.

Edited January 4, 2022 by Aird25

[BearcatSA]

1 minute ago, Aird25 said:

I know, but those are very different contexts. Has BC really dropped, or is Ontario just stronger than ever. I presume Pacific/BC players would be more prevalent in the national team if Ontario wasn't on a peak/wave in terms of player development. Though perhaps I'm wrong.

Yes.

The third largest metropolitan area in Canada with a friendly year round climate can't produce a born and bred player for our MNT?  

[Corazon]

1 hour ago, Aird25 said:

I know, but those seem like very different contexts. Has BC really dropped, or is Ontario just stronger than ever. I presume Pacific/BC players would be more prevalent in the national team if Ontario wasn't on a peak/wave in terms of player development. Though perhaps I'm wrong.

Just for context.  Historically BC has produced many quality players for our CMNT program.  As mentioned by @BearcatSA, they do have a climate benefit although I will say that immigration patterns definitely support Toronto & Montreal growth in comparison.

There have been 0 caps given to a BC raised player under Herdman.  Zero!  Alistair is the only player born in BC that has featured for Herdman but he was raisedin Quebec & Ontario.

A few players such as Waterman, Baldisimo, Metcalfe, Verhoeven & Straith have been included in squads/preliminary squads but none have featured in the past 4 years under Herdman.  Of course there have been successful Whitecaps prospects that have come over from other provinces such as Davies, Adekugbe, Teibert & Bustos. 

This is a remarkable stat for such a large province with a large metropolitan population in Greater Vancouver.  Not too mention a province with an MLS and CPL team in it.  As well as the only province that benefits from a climate where you can play outdoors year round.  Perhaps I am missing another player that was born and/or raised in BC but I don't think so (not including players brought in from other provinces to Whitecaps).

 

 

Edited January 4, 2022 by Corazon

[Obinna]

Can we infer that BC soccer is dropping off from this? I am not sure. CMNT caps is such a limited indicator. It would be better to compare provinces in terms of professional players. You'd get a far larger sample size and it would make for a more accurate picture as far as player development goes. I am not sure who out there has time to tally up the results for that, but it would be interesting to see how that pans out. I am sure it would paint a more rosy picture. 

[Soro17]

53 minutes ago, Corazon said:

Just for context.  Historically BC has produced many quality players for our CMNT program.  As mentioned by @BearcatSA, they do have a climate benefit although I will say that immigration patterns definitely support Toronto & Montreal growth in comparison.

There have been 0 caps given to a BC raised player under Herdman.  Zero!  Alistair is the only player born in BC that has featured for Herdman but he was raisedin Quebec & Ontario.

A few players such as Waterman, Baldisimo, Metcalfe, Verhoeven & Straith have been included in squads/preliminary squads but none have featured in the past 4 years under Herdman.  Of course there have been successful Whitecaps prospects that have come over from other provinces such as Davies, Adekugbe, Teibert & Bustos. 

This is a remarkable stat for such a large province with a large metropolitan population in Greater Vancouver.  Not too mention a province with an MLS and CPL team in it.  As well as the only province that benefits from a climate where you can play outdoors year round.  Perhaps I am missing another player that was born and/or raised in BC but I don't think so (not including players brought in from other provinces to Whitecaps).

 

 

The 'playing year round' thing in Vancouver is a a bit of a myth. Each year my kid's games and practices are regularly cancelled from mid-Nov to end of Feb due to frozen pitch, snow-covered pitch or water-logged pitch. When they do play, conditions are less than ideal even into March. As turf fields replace grass, this is abating somewhat but progress is slow.  If anything, the absence of quality indoor facilities is holding kids in Vancouver back.

[Corazon]

8 minutes ago, Soro17 said:

The 'playing year round' thing in Vancouver is a a bit of a myth. Each year my kid's games and practices are regularly cancelled from mid-Nov to end of Feb due to frozen pitch, snow-covered pitch or water-logged pitch. When they do play, conditions are less than ideal even into March. As turf fields replace grass, this is abating somewhat but progress is slow.  If anything, the absence of quality indoor facilities is holding kids in Vancouver back.

Good to know, I had no idea about the lack of indoor facilities which is unfortunate.

I did have a coworker from Vancouver tell me that his kid's club soccer season ran through the winters outdoors so I took his word on that.  

[Soro17]

1 hour ago, Corazon said:

Good to know, I had no idea about the lack of indoor facilities which is unfortunate.

I did have a coworker from Vancouver tell me that his kid's club soccer season ran through the winters outdoors so I took his word on that.  

The season runs alright, but with regular interruptions in marginal conditions.  

[Free kick]

Johnston seems to be doing the media tour around the country.  Last week he was on a station in Montreal.  Today it was on an affiliated station in Edmonton:

https://www.tsn.ca/radio/edmonton-1260/audio/alistair-johnston-people-in-edmonton-are-troopers-that-was-unbelievable-1.1741791

I listened to both interviews.  Both were good.

 

Edited January 5, 2022 by Free kick

[N1ckbr0wn]

2 hours ago, Soro17 said:

The 'playing year round' thing in Vancouver is a a bit of a myth. Each year my kid's games and practices are regularly cancelled from mid-Nov to end of Feb due to frozen pitch, snow-covered pitch or water-logged pitch. When they do play, conditions are less than ideal even into March. As turf fields replace grass, this is abating somewhat but progress is slow.  If anything, the absence of quality indoor facilities is holding kids in Vancouver back.

This. I played soccer in the Lower Mainland for over 19 years now, from house leagues as a child, to rep as a teenager, and now men’s league. The amount of games I’ve had canceled over my lifetime due to excessive rain or frozen pitches is ridiculous. I think most people outside of BC don’t realize we play from September through to April/Early June, or just how much it rains here for 90% of the year.

BC absolutely needs indoor facilities to keep up with the rest of the country. That or switch to playing from Spring to Fall and let the Summer academy teams become Winter academy teams

Edited January 5, 2022 by N1ckbr0wn

[BearcatSA]

4 hours ago, Soro17 said:

The 'playing year round' thing in Vancouver is a a bit of a myth. Each year my kid's games and practices are regularly cancelled from mid-Nov to end of Feb due to frozen pitch, snow-covered pitch or water-logged pitch. When they do play, conditions are less than ideal even into March. As turf fields replace grass, this is abating somewhat but progress is slow.  If anything, the absence of quality indoor facilities is holding kids in Vancouver back.

We had this same discussion awhile back on this forum about Lower Mainland player development and I agree, especially with the facilities point. In urban centres with more indoor facilities in classic Canadian climes, you are more likely to see guys moving up the pyramid.  And unless there is a signicant, longer term plan commitment, I don't see much changing.

Back to Johnston:  being this a fairly notable Cancon signing, I hope he handles the expectations in Montreal.

 

[youllneverwalkalone]

The big change imo is hockey. As much as we had almost all the MNT in the 80s & 90s you could count NHLers from BC on one hand back then. Now the best athletes from BC are playing hockey and rivaling anywhere else in the country with the climate advantage of cheap ice.

Immigration from Asia/South Asia really embrace the ice too. You play any men's league locally you really see that. This group far outnumbers the Latin Americans who play football, and there isn't the same level of immigration from Croatia/Portugal/Italy that you used to see here.

[EJsens1]

10 minutes ago, youllneverwalkalone said:

The big change imo is hockey. As much as we had almost all the MNT in the 80s & 90s you could count NHLers from BC on one hand back then. Now the best athletes from BC are playing hockey and rivaling anywhere else in the country with the climate advantage of cheap ice.

Cheap ice?  Not around here in Ontario.  I’m not sure what the numbers from BC are like, but most players come through Toronto for a reason.  That’s where the best training, facilities and coaching is, on top of the biggest number of people to choose from.  Most super talented kids who live in rural Ontario move to Toronto and billet with a family.  The same applies for soccer in this country.  Best facilities, training and coaching is in Toronto. 

[SthMelbRed]

1 hour ago, EJsens1 said:

Cheap ice?  Not around here in Ontario.  I’m not sure what the numbers from BC are like, but most players come through Toronto for a reason.  That’s where the best training, facilities and coaching is, on top of the biggest number of people to choose from.  Most super talented kids who live in rural Ontario move to Toronto and billet with a family.  The same applies for soccer in this country.  Best facilities, training and coaching is in Toronto. 

Just in Burnaby, there were only 3 sheets of ice in 1980. There are now 13. Similar can be said for Coquitlam. I'm sure many other Lower Mainland municipalities, as well. You no longer have 7-year old kids having to wake up at 4 am for hockey practice because there's plenty of ice available for them to practice at normal hours. Also, in 1980, you could argue that the Whitecaps were the biggest pro sports team in town. The Canucks were an enduring joke. Now, the Canucks dominate the market in every way. I'm not saying that BC's current shit situation in producing CMNT players is entirely down to hockey, but it's definitely a factor.

At the same time, I'd guess that the 'Leafs iron grip on the Toronto market is not quite as tight in 2022 as it was in 1980.

[Soro17]

4 hours ago, youllneverwalkalone said:

The big change imo is hockey. As much as we had almost all the MNT in the 80s & 90s you could count NHLers from BC on one hand back then. Now the best athletes from BC are playing hockey and rivaling anywhere else in the country with the climate advantage of cheap ice.

Immigration from Asia/South Asia really embrace the ice too. You play any men's league locally you really see that. This group far outnumbers the Latin Americans who play football, and there isn't the same level of immigration from Croatia/Portugal/Italy that you used to see here.

100%. I referee hockey and my kids play in Vancouver. The asian and south asian communities play hockey in huge numbers. I am not sure about all the best athletes playing hockey in BC though, PCAHA posts participation numbers in Vancouver annually and I think they are pretty flat (or even down for boys hockey). I think the increased number of NHL players comes from increased access to professional coaching and specialization at a younger age, especially at clubs like BWC and NSWC. I played on a BC U16 team in the early 90s and it was the first time I ever had a professional (ie. non volunteer dad) coach. Now, kids are getting professional coaches at U9 in most places. 

  

[youllneverwalkalone]

14 hours ago, EJsens1 said:

Cheap ice?  Not around here in Ontario.  I’m not sure what the numbers from BC are like, but most players come through Toronto for a reason.  That’s where the best training, facilities and coaching is, on top of the biggest number of people to choose from.  Most super talented kids who live in rural Ontario move to Toronto and billet with a family.  The same applies for soccer in this country.  Best facilities, training and coaching is in Brampton. 

FYP

[BearcatSA]

11 hours ago, Soro17 said:

100%. I referee hockey and my kids play in Vancouver. The asian and south asian communities play hockey in huge numbers. I am not sure about all the best athletes playing hockey in BC though, PCAHA posts participation numbers in Vancouver annually and I think they are pretty flat (or even down for boys hockey). I think the increased number of NHL players comes from increased access to professional coaching and specialization at a younger age, especially at clubs like BWC and NSWC. I played on a BC U16 team in the early 90s and it was the first time I ever had a professional (ie. non volunteer dad) coach. Now, kids are getting professional coaches at U9 in most places. 

Hockey is a big time money sport and if you really want to have a leg up you need to have a family with deep pockets for the "extras."  I see the same thing here in soccer with these pay to play academies.  You are getting the best athletes that parents can pay for.  

[Soro17]

6 minutes ago, BearcatSA said:

Hockey is a big time money sport and if you really want to have a leg up you need to have a family with deep pockets for the "extras."  I see the same thing here in soccer with these pay to play academies.  You are getting the best athletes that parents can pay for.  

Yep. I have several friends whose kids play on the NSWC U13 A1 team which usually one of the best U13 teams in Canada. Their team budget per family is about $10k, which includes the Quebec Peewee tourney and coaches fees. The team coaches then also run 'voluntary' training sessions on the side year-round to provide supplementary development. Their total hockey budget for the year is about $25k all-in per kid. My friends are relatively well-off (doctor, business owner, lawyer), but there are those that aren't that are also dropping this kind of money, which is frightening to me. 

My sense is that youth soccer (in Vancouver at least) is about 10 years behind this trend in Canada, but as more opportunities open up for Canadian kids to start making a career and $$, more 'professional' coaches and private academies will appear and more parents will be willing (conned into?) to drop serious $ on their kid's development.    

[BearcatSA]

1 hour ago, Soro17 said:

My sense is that youth soccer (in Vancouver at least) is about 10 years behind this trend in Canada, but as more opportunities open up for Canadian kids to start making a career and $$, more 'professional' coaches and private academies will appear and more parents will be willing (conned into?) to drop serious $ on their kid's development.    

If it is behind, it's not by much.  And there are a lot of gullible rubes out there will to fork out the dough for their soccer playing kids.

[Blackjack15]

Interview with Johnston starts at 48:32