Ansem Posted January 24 Share Posted January 24 (edited) 3 hours ago, jonovision said: School group games are pretty common in minor league sports. It's less about creating future STHs, and more about a guaranteed gate with a captive audience that needs to buy lunch and other concessions with mommy and daddy's money. Source: teacher that accompanies his students to a minor league baseball game every year. The team makes bank on these days. Both statements can be true hence why I get the reason they are doing it - not a judgement on if it's a good idea or not. I mean if enough kids likes it and forces their parents to take them again and more often - that's more fans in the end lol Edited January 24 by Ansem johnyb 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnyb Posted January 24 Share Posted January 24 4 hours ago, Cheeta said: WTF? Whatever huckster sold that idea to the board, man have they found their calling. Seriously. I salute you. Manitoba Moose do this every season and it's their best selling game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gator Posted January 25 Share Posted January 25 1 hour ago, johnyb said: Manitoba Moose do this every season and it's their best selling game. And as I stated earlier the Bulldogs have done this for years with similar results, I assume with the discounted tickets the sheer volume and concession sales make this worth doing! There is a difference though in taking away or making it hard to attend for most, hockey teams play around 40 home games whereas Forge only play around 15, I hope this works as intended! johnyb 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watchmen Posted January 25 Share Posted January 25 1 hour ago, johnyb said: Manitoba Moose do this every season and it's their best selling game. But as someone pointed out, you're talking about 40 or so home games vs 14 or 15 games. It's proportionally a much bigger deal for a CPL side to do it. johnyb, gator and nolando 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheeta Posted January 25 Share Posted January 25 5 hours ago, johnyb said: Manitoba Moose do this every season and it's their best selling game. Says it all right there. No disrespect to the Moose, they've choosen their market, it's a wonderful game day experience for those who are part of that market, but I, and no one I know, has ever paid for a ticket to watch the Moose play. (Disclaimer; Partially true. I know people who have Moose season tickets who also have Jet's seasons tickets. One does not equate equal value from one to the other). POINT BEING. I'll defer to the powers that be to market and promote their product as they see fit. Wish them all the best at it. Just I'm one of those who's very cynical of marketing schemes which devalue/bargain price a product. As a one of...OK. A bit of fun, and that's never a bad thing. However, the value beyond that can be overstated in my opinion. johnyb 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mihairokov Posted January 25 Share Posted January 25 6 hours ago, johnyb said: Manitoba Moose do this every season and it's their best selling game. Is it correct to use the word "selling"? My understanding is that school day games in leagues like the CHL are always typically free for the schools attending. As someone else pointed out, it's less of an impact if a CHL/AHL team does it because it's only one of thirty home games - Forge doing it cuts in far more to a match which otherwise would have had thousands of sales. I'm on the fence whether or not this is a good idea in the long run but they're usually matches I absolutely avoid, if not for the scheduling than for the thousands of screaming children for two hours. As an aside, if anyone goes to a CHL or other sporting event it's easy to tell when teams are struggling to get people into the door when they have things like school choirs doing the anthem; Now you have twenty anthem singers instead of one, and most of them need a parent to join them at the game... an easy way to get a few dozen more people into the building. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozzie_the_parrot Posted January 25 Share Posted January 25 (edited) 5 hours ago, Mihairokov said: Is it correct to use the word "selling"? My understanding is that school day games in leagues like the CHL are always typically free for the schools attending... Think it's typically a discounted group sale rate rather than a freebie when pro soccer teams like the Toronto Lynx and TFC II have done it but it's been a while since Nicole Hartrell used to post about stuff like that in the old Network 54 days. Edited January 25 by Ozzie_the_parrot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingston Posted January 25 Share Posted January 25 15 hours ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said: ...if you believe official attendance numbers. Which I do. Even if we all acknowledge that there may be some comp tickets or whatever included in the count. You can, of course, post what you like. You'd do your credibility a favour, however, if you didn't pretend that every attendance number was some sort of complete fabrication from George Orwell's Ministry of Truth. gator 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozzie_the_parrot Posted January 25 Share Posted January 25 Given I have never done what you mention I have no concerns about my credibility. Have you ever seen me question Halifax attendance numbers on here? Tigers 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Markoaleks Posted January 25 Share Posted January 25 Am a Forge SSH since day 1 think this is a great idea for a game Forge per their socials do a lot of school visits during season and off season too Great way to start an annual game like this tradition in my view johnyb 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cicero Posted January 25 Share Posted January 25 11 hours ago, Mihairokov said: Is it correct to use the word "selling"? My understanding is that school day games in leagues like the CHL are always typically free for the schools attending. As someone else pointed out, it's less of an impact if a CHL/AHL team does it because it's only one of thirty home games - Forge doing it cuts in far more to a match which otherwise would have had thousands of sales. I'm on the fence whether or not this is a good idea in the long run but they're usually matches I absolutely avoid, if not for the scheduling than for the thousands of screaming children for two hours. They could open up the upper decks and sell/comp the school day tickets up there and no one would object. It's not quite the same thing as getting to be down near the ice, but still might work without cutting into revenue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cicero Posted January 25 Share Posted January 25 I guess it couldn't be during the school day then though. So, not quite the same thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozzie_the_parrot Posted January 26 Share Posted January 26 In retrospect this school day game was a sign something was going off the rails with Onesoccer and Mediapro because there's no way they would have wanted that broadcast time. The Forge scrambling for extra revenue from busloads of screaming high school kids Toronto Lynx style fits a post-Mediapro deal fiscal environment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingston Posted January 26 Share Posted January 26 5 hours ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said: Forge scrambling for extra revenue from busloads of screaming high school kids That's what businesses do. Again, we can debate whether the school day game as organized is a good long term play. But if Forge could hold 14 school day games and make more money than the traditional model, that's what they should do. I seriously doubt that's the case in reality but there's nothing wrong with chasing extra revenue. Shway 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Califax Posted January 26 Share Posted January 26 They should actually make it an annual Kids Game between York and Forge. Done right, it could be absolute scenes. narduch 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mihairokov Posted January 26 Share Posted January 26 School day games aren't high schoolers - usually they're in elementary. To expose them to the sport and team. 7 hours ago, Califax said: They should actually make it an annual Kids Game between York and Forge. Done right, it could be absolute scenes. They have these in Ottawa they call it the Panda Game 😛 narduch, Trois Reds and Califax 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unnamed Trialist Posted January 31 Share Posted January 31 I am going to try to ask the most important question for the CPL in 2024 as I see it. In the light of the CSB-MediaPro stand-off: Does the CPL and do its clubs have the same potential revenue coming in this year as last? Does this conflict mean a budget cut that will also affect how the clubs budget? Was MediaPro paying something to CPL clubs, directly or via the league? Or was it all in kind? If what MediaPro was putting in went all or primarily to One Soccer, does that mean we can have a league, the teams, flights, preseason, staff for ticketing and marketing, but the only piece missing will be its media presence? Or will this situation affect in any way the rest? And to what degree? If the problem is that we have to replace those producing broadcasts of games, and highlight reels, then that is manageable, as I see it. You slowly put into place the means by which you can film a game, call it live, stream it, and have a barebones editing team to do highlights. Then posted on a CPL website with a bolstered capacity for video hosting. If the rights are sold whole or in part to a national or regional broadcasters, to what degree will those deals compensate presumed losses? It is also manageable if the league now decides to hire a half dozen more people to generate articles, do social media, market, getting the message from the CPL to the viewers, bypassing the OneSoccer mediation. Will that investment pay off? Final observation: if clubs feel they can still get the same fans out, even raise some prices, and even increase attendance, as well as raise merchandising revenues, will that extra income compensate the sums, if any, previously coming from MediaPro and now not available? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
narduch Posted January 31 Share Posted January 31 3 minutes ago, Unnamed Trialist said: I am going to try to ask the most important question for the CPL in 2024 as I see it. In the light of the CSB-MediaPro stand-off: Does the CPL and do its clubs have the same potential revenue coming in this year as last? Does this conflict mean a budget cut that will also affect how the clubs budget? Was MediaPro paying something to CPL clubs, directly or via the league? Or was it all in kind? If what MediaPro was putting in went all or primarily to One Soccer, does that mean we can have a league, the teams, flights, preseason, staff for ticketing and marketing, but the only piece missing will be its media presence? Or will this situation affect in any way the rest? And to what degree? If the problem is that we have to replace those producing broadcasts of games, and highlight reels, then that is manageable, as I see it. You slowly put into place the means by which you can film a game, call it live, stream it, and have a barebones editing team to do highlights. Then posted on a CPL website with a bolstered capacity for video hosting. If the rights are sold whole or in part to a national or regional broadcasters, to what degree will those deals compensate presumed losses? It is also manageable if the league now decides to hire a half dozen more people to generate articles, do social media, market, getting the message from the CPL to the viewers, bypassing the OneSoccer mediation. Will that investment pay off? Final observation: if clubs feel they can still get the same fans out, even raise some prices, and even increase attendance, as well as raise merchandising revenues, will that extra income compensate the sums, if any, previously coming from MediaPro and now not available? One of the Neil Davidson articles from last week stated that Mediapro was indeed making payments to CSB. They missed $6 million in 2023. It's basically the impetus for CSB pulling the rights. Teams are still making signings. Which is a good sign. But sometimes these things take time to trickle down Unnamed Trialist 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yellowsweatygorilla Posted January 31 Share Posted January 31 12 minutes ago, narduch said: One of the Neil Davidson articles from last week stated that Mediapro was indeed making payments to CSB. They missed $6 million in 2023. It's basically the impetus for CSB pulling the rights. Teams are still making signings. Which is a good sign. But sometimes these things take time to trickle down Remember the other important tidbit from that article is that media pro takes half of the sponsorship revenue from CSB as part of the deal. According to the heritage committee, CSA took in $8 million in 2022. Another deal estimated at 3 million with struck with CIBC in 2023. So let's estimate that it's at 10 million. By scrapping the deal in theory CSB should also get back 5 million. If that is the case, it should significantly offset the loss in licensing revenue. Metro, narduch and Kent 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozzie_the_parrot Posted January 31 Share Posted January 31 (edited) Don't think that necessarily referred to 50% of the entire CSA-CSB deal take. This is what was in the article: ...CSB and Mediapro agreed to share sponsorship revenue from commercial inventory 50/50, with CSB providing annual minimum guaranteed payments for the first three years of the deal ($1 million in 2019, $2 million in 2020 and $3 million in 2021)... All revolves around what "commercial inventory" means. Edited January 31 by Ozzie_the_parrot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yellowsweatygorilla Posted January 31 Share Posted January 31 1 minute ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said: Don't think that necessarily referred to 50% of the entire CSA-CSB deal take. This is what was in the article: ...CSB and Mediapro agreed to share sponsorship revenue from commercial inventory 50/50, with CSB providing annual minimum guaranteed payments for the first three years of the deal ($1 million in 2019, $2 million in 2020 and $3 million in 2021)... I read that as the minimum payment irrespective of the amount of revenue. And since the sponsorship revenue far exceeds that it should be above that number? How do you read it as? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
narduch Posted January 31 Share Posted January 31 1 minute ago, yellowsweatygorilla said: I read that as the minimum payment irrespective of the amount of revenue. And since the sponsorship revenue far exceeds that it should be above that number? How do you read it as? I would assume it's only broadcast related sponsorship money being split Watchmen 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yellowsweatygorilla Posted January 31 Share Posted January 31 2 minutes ago, narduch said: I would assume it's only broadcast related sponsorship money being split Ahh. Fair enough. I suppose overall sponsorship revenue would be very generous. That said, I do wonder if there's quite a bit of overlap considering every one of CSA's sponsors also has advertisements on one soccer narduch 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozzie_the_parrot Posted January 31 Share Posted January 31 There will likely be some overlap but I think it's unlikely CSB's take was whatever is left after -50% to Mediapro and -$3.5 million to the CSA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yellowsweatygorilla Posted January 31 Share Posted January 31 3 minutes ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said: There will likely be some overlap but I think it's unlikely CSB's take was whatever is left after -50% to Mediapro and -$3.5 million to the CSA. Yea. Fair. Though obviously hoping it is the higher amount since it'll make the fallout from losing licensing fees less dramatic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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