CPL new teams speculation

[Ansem]

Quebec City is needed, but they need their own SSS. Also, they are crucial to get investors interested in bringing CPL in Montreal. Quebec City vs Montreal transcends sports and those would be guaranteed sellouts.

[ChrisinOrleans]

2 hours ago, Ansem said:

Quebec City is needed, but they need their own SSS. Also, they are crucial to get investors interested in bringing CPL in Montreal. Quebec City vs Montreal transcends sports and those would be guaranteed sellouts.

Why do they need their own SSS, but Ottawa, Saskatchewan, Winnipeg and Hamilton do not? Given the financial constraints on the CanPL at launch, I don't think anywhere *needs* an SSS. 

[Ansem]

3 minutes ago, ChrisinOrleans said:

Why do they need their own SSS, but Ottawa, Saskatchewan, Winnipeg and Hamilton do not?

The Quebec Peps is really sub-par compared to the CFL stadiums

3 minutes ago, ChrisinOrleans said:

Given the financial constraints on the CanPL at launch, I don't think anywhere *needs* an SSS. 

Not even a temporary stadium like Saskatoon is doing?

[ChrisinOrleans]

On 11/14/2017 at 12:41 PM, Ansem said:

The Quebec Peps is really sub-par compared to the CFL stadiums

Not even a temporary stadium like Saskatoon is doing?

Sure, I'll concede that. However, if we're going to talk about the adequacy of stadiums for large events, and assume that CanPL will bring near-capacity soccer crowds, then sure. I'll concede that Stade Telus at only 12,000 seats is relatively unimpressive when compared to say, Place TD in Ottawa, which is brand new and seats 24,000. However, since the CanPL is targeting an audience of around 5,000 per game (which Ottawa attracts in an urban area of around 930,000), then these stadiums are simply over-sized and too cost prohibitive to maintain. In that case, a modular stadium like that of Halifax or Saskatoon would be ideal. 

I'm more concerned with financial stability and solvency than I am with the amenities of the locale. I merely want the league to succeed. We'll talk about new stadiums when each of the 6 - 10 teams are clearly drawing 5,000 spectators regularly. 

[Initial B]

Well, it looks like FCE isn't going to be one of the starting clubs... 

[Kent]

Here's the link for Edmonton news.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton/fc-edmonton-soccer-north-american-soccer-league-1.4418279

The only encouraging part of the article...

"The statement also made a point of reaching out to the local youth soccer community involved in its development program, stating "we remain committed to our FC Edmonton Academy." "

Perhaps they could be keeping it alive to keep the door open on the possibility of joining CPL. Or perhaps that part of the business was profitable (I am assuming it's pay-to-play) and he wants minimize his losses a bit.

[Ansem]

22 minutes ago, Kent said:

Here's the link for Edmonton news.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton/fc-edmonton-soccer-north-american-soccer-league-1.4418279

The only encouraging part of the article...

"The statement also made a point of reaching out to the local youth soccer community involved in its development program, stating "we remain committed to our FC Edmonton Academy." "

Perhaps they could be keeping it alive to keep the door open on the possibility of joining CPL. Or perhaps that part of the business was profitable (I am assuming it's pay-to-play) and he wants minimize his losses a bit.

Quotes:
"We would need 8,000 or 9,000 people to be sustainable, and that's not just bums in the seats. It's the eyeballs," Fath said. "If you've got the people watching, that also captures corporate sponsorship. We've got some great corporate sponsors, but we never captured the heart of corporate Edmonton to the extent we needed to."

The importance of television which in turn attracts more sponsorship and ironically, more fans
 

Tom and Dave Fath said they believed in and supported the league's business model, but "our franchise has proven to be unsustainable in the Edmonton market."

The NASL business model (Free for all, no marketing, no TV, crazy travel, US dollars), that could never fly indefinitely for Edmonton

"We needed to fill the stadium regularly to create the demand to build a bigger stadium to carry ... the costs that we had in the NASL, and the travel, and everything else."

Looks like he'll need a richer partner to help with the capital costs of an improved/new stadium with a partnership with the city. As long as Fath are on their own, forget FC Edmonton

a bigger issue was the lack of "close rivals," Fath said. "Is it relevant if we are playing someone from the south of the United States?"

The man said it himself. Huge factor for lack of attendance and viewership

"we remain committed to our FC Edmonton Academy."

Doors are open to CPL, just need the right set of circumstances - (sounds like setting the table for negotiations)
 

"For us to look at the Canadian Premier League, we have to be able to see a path towards sustainability and that's to have an increased commitment of attendance and an increased commitment of corporate Edmonton on sponsorship."

CPL & CSA: You got work to do... He can't do it on his own. Help him

 

[Rheo]

PB spreading positive vibes on this sad day 

 

[matty]

54 minutes ago, Rheo said:

PB spreading positive vibes on this sad day 

 

Pfft that's not how you cheer people up on glum days pb.....you keep it Canadian

 

[matty]

2 hours ago, Ansem said:

Quotes:
"We would need 8,000 or 9,000 people to be sustainable, and that's not just bums in the seats. It's the eyeballs," Fath said. "If you've got the people watching, that also captures corporate sponsorship. We've got some great corporate sponsors, but we never captured the heart of corporate Edmonton to the extent we needed to."

The importance of television which in turn attracts more sponsorship and ironically, more fans

That's why I'm weirded out by PB saying the plan doesn't need TV to work and which is why others should be too

Edited November 25, 2017 by matty

[Big_M]

Time for new ownership in Edmonton for a cpl team plain and simple..good on Fath for keeping it going these years but he's not a big money guy and doesn't want any more loses

[GuillermoDelQuarto]

10 hours ago, Ansem said:

a bigger issue was the lack of "close rivals," Fath said. "Is it relevant if we are playing someone from the south of the United States?"

The man said it himself. Huge factor for lack of attendance and viewership

 

this is the one main counterpoint I have for anyone who says FCEds collapse is due to Edmonton "not being a soccer town"

it really hasn't been tested yet.

Plop a team in a pro league in Calgary and Van that they see regularly and then we really see what kind of town Edmonton is.

When I first saw FCEd on TV I thought it looked bush league and so would everyone else who watches sports.  If they were in MLS they would be doing at least as well as Columbus, IMO

 

[ReedOnTheGrand]

12 hours ago, Big_M said:

Time for new ownership in Edmonton for a cpl team plain and simple..good on Fath for keeping it going these years but he's not a big money guy and doesn't want any more loses

I think He's fine, he has been willing to lose money before he/they just need evidence that there's a path to making money or at least breaking even. Canadian sponsors in the CPL will be exposed to a market much larger as home and away games will be in front of Canadians so profits from them could be much higher. Not to mention travel costs could likely be halved a season, he said a game's travel costs could be as high as 50k per game in NASL; let's say average is 25k-30k. That's 400-500k a season just for team travel where as seasons in CPL could probably cost half that. 

 

I do think having another investor involved could be nice for for an Edmonton team but the Eddies are already pretty established and have a good academy, maybe a slight rebrand could go a long way with the improved corporate potential of CPL over NASL. 

[Bison44]

Geesh if Edmonton isnt a CDN soccer town, what is? The drillers off and on over the years, (NASL/indoor etc), then FCE.  Plus spitting out some exciting prospects (Bokai, Davies, Shome, Didic etc) in last few years.  If Edmonton isnt a (CDN) soccer town, what does that say about Winnipeg, Saskatoon or Halifax then??  

[Rheo]

Here's Sandor's wrap up of yesterday

https://the11.ca/fath-fc-edmonton-will-not-return-in-any-league-unless-edmonton-proves-soccer-can-be-sustainable/

[GuillermoDelQuarto]

2 hours ago, Rheo said:

Here's Sandor's wrap up of yesterday

https://the11.ca/fath-fc-edmonton-will-not-return-in-any-league-unless-edmonton-proves-soccer-can-be-sustainable/

basically, he's calling on us to step up.  Well, what should we do?  

[stevensandor]

16 hours ago, Big_M said:

Time for new ownership in Edmonton for a cpl team plain and simple..good on Fath for keeping it going these years but he's not a big money guy and doesn't want any more loses

Actually, Tom Fath IS indeed what we'd consider a big-money guy. Fath Industries, O'Hanlon Paving... In terms of finding deeper pocketed owners in Edmonton, you'd be hard pressed to find them.

[matty]

12 minutes ago, GuillermoDelQuarto said:

basically, he's calling on us to step up.  Well, what should we do?  

Partly yes but also calling out corporate edmonton and the cpl itself. But yea

Also sandor Quick q regarding new ownership: is there anyone else in the city that's been thinking of starting a team but isn't 100% that may look to join fath if it's cpl that you're aware of?

[stevensandor]

1 minute ago, matty said:

Partly yes but also calling out corporate edmonton and the cpl itself. But yea

Also sandor Quick q regarding new ownership: is there anyone else in the city that's been thinking of starting a team but isn't 100% that may look to join fath if it's cpl that you're aware of?

Not at all. No looks from the Eskimos. I've asked the Oilers Ent. Group and there is no interest on their part. I asked Tom yesterday if he's ever thought about selling, and he said no one has ever even come forward with any kind of offer, so he kind of laughed it off.

Basically, I find it frustrating when we sit back and say "find other investors" like that's easy. Soccer is an exceptionally bad investment. We all know that. Finding soccer investors in Canada who would be serious is like finding needles in a haystack. You need to find people worth hundreds of millions (at least) willing to lose tens of millions (at least). If you guys know of those people, maybe a guy at the bar who says he's got like $100 million to burn, please put their names out there for us. If we don't, we shouldn't say "find investors!" like it's easy. 

[toontownman]

Tough to market NASL to big investors or sponsors in comparison to top leagues like NHL and CFL both in the city.

I think Saskatoon will be fine. Lacrosse was not exactly a hot topic before the rush jumped from Edmonton now it's sold out every game and all over the city. Where there is less competition and the fact it will be the countries top league and a Canadian league I think (maybe it's just a wild hope) that people and investors would get behind it. 

What will be testing is the away support and following. Hard to get across the country for a match for many and if there is no way of following (on tv) that could damper things Maybe.

Seems like a help plea to the cpl. I think there will likely be a team there either way eventually.

[Big_M]

O'Hanlon Paving is listed at $5-10 M in revenue per year..other than that Fath has Fath Industries and a few small businesses..so not a high net worth, much less than most nasl owners..of course he can't keep losing so much every year

[Ansem]

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Edited November 27, 2017 by Ansem

[ironcub14]

On 11/25/2017 at 5:18 PM, stevensandor said:

Not at all. No looks from the Eskimos. I've asked the Oilers Ent. Group and there is no interest on their part. I asked Tom yesterday if he's ever thought about selling, and he said no one has ever even come forward with any kind of offer, so he kind of laughed it off.

Basically, I find it frustrating when we sit back and say "find other investors" like that's easy. Soccer is an exceptionally bad investment. We all know that. Finding soccer investors in Canada who would be serious is like finding needles in a haystack. You need to find people worth hundreds of millions (at least) willing to lose tens of millions (at least). If you guys know of those people, maybe a guy at the bar who says he's got like $100 million to burn, please put their names out there for us. If we don't, we shouldn't say "find investors!" like it's easy. 

This statement by Steve is accurate (obviously duh) but also for me really troubling. If PB and Bob Young can't convince the Eskimos or the Oilers to get onboard, and there's no other concrete parties interested in footy in Edmonton, then I'm far less optimistic on CPL Edmonton than I was on Friday.

And I was optimistic on Friday on CPL Edmonton because everything on the V's, Reddit and Twitter the last few months was telling us that the Faths were expected to shut it down, in anticipation of a grand new opening for CPL in 2019. However, that optimism was very much based on the fact that I'm hoping that the Faths are as gung-ho on CPL as they were about NASL for a long time, and that there are other investors who are considering CPL Edmonton. If there aren't any, then yeah, Edmonton most definitely is in serious trouble, and by extension, CPL.

I'll say this once before I turn back to blind optimism for now. If CPL doesn't launch by 2020, then CSA and the V's should forget about this idea once and for all and reverse the USL moratoriums that's piled up the last 5 years. If the Canadian soccer business community, whatever of that exists, can't get it done in this modern age, it just isn't gonna happen. And all of us fans in Ottawa and Edmonton who were gung-ho on NASL for a long time now know in hindsight that the wild wild west that is NASL is never going to be allowed to be sustainable, for a myriad of various reasons.

That said, I'm going to remain optimistic on CPL Edmonton, and I'm going to hold on to the faith that perhaps CPL might be approaching ownership groups completely independent of the Faths. I don't know their net worth. But I'm assuming they just don't have the political capital to get a cool stadium better than Clarke Stadium. And really, the stadium makes or breaks a team. Maybe the Eskimos and the Oilers have no interest in FCEd. That doesn't preclude them from being interested in CPL. Back to blind optimism, for now.

Edited November 27, 2017 by ironcub14

[Gopherbashi]

2 hours ago, ironcub14 said:

I'll say this once before I turn back to blind optimism for now. If CPL doesn't launch by 2020, then CSA and the V's should forget about this idea once and for all and reverse the USL moratoriums that's piled up the last 5 years.

It's put-up-or-shut-up time for Beirne & co.

[Rheo]

Or it's time to not panic and rush things because a vocal minority of hardcore fans on the internet are freaking out.

That being said the early announcement of the league has worked out poorly in hindsight given the above said freaking out by some.