WCQ Honduras - Canada 2 Sept Pre-game

[TOcanadafan]

13 hours ago, Ruffian said:

Quatar is 6 years away. Hutchinson, JDG, Ledgerwood, de Jong, Hainault, Edgar, Jakovic, Vitoria, Ricketts, Johnson and Jackson all likely to be retired by then as they will be 35 or over. Where are we going to get their replacements??? I hope we see some good players come through the systems. 

Hahahaha... other than Hutchinson, the rest of the list is embarrassing - OK, JDG was quality but that was over 7 years ago, and Johnson is a heart-and-soul warrior, but we can only hope some quality comes through the system.

[Ruffian]

3 minutes ago, TOcanadafan said:

Hahahaha... other than Hutchinson, the rest of the list is embarrassing - OK, JDG was quality but that was over 7 years ago, and Johnson is a heart-and-soul warrior, but we can only hope some quality comes through the system.

Embarrassing? These are the best soccer players in Canada and they have put a huge amount of effort and dedication into playing for this country and representing us. Without these players we are even worse than we are now. 

[TOcanadafan]

6 minutes ago, Ruffian said:

Embarrassing? These are the best soccer players in Canada and they have put a huge amount of effort and dedication into playing for this country and representing us. Without these players we are even worse than we are now. 

Not that the players' efforts or dedication to our program is embarrassing... just that this is the best that Canada can produce. 

There is no chance that we will be worse off 4 years down the road (...we could be, and I sure hope we won't be, in a similar state)  There will always be a best of a shotty lot.

[gator]

I'm very disappointed with the loss like many but I'm not surprised, scoring the 1st goal gave me hope we might be able to get a result, the goal conceded just before the half was a ball breaker! In all due respect some posters on here are delusional, our talent pool is somewhat limited and unless you have experienced that heat and humidity you just have no clue what it can do to individual athletes and team tactics! I was in Cuba 4 years ago for the qualifier and was amazed these guys could run around in the blazing sun and not suffer heat stroke, it was so hot for us supporters and we were in the shade drinking Cristal! All is not lost yet, we are still in with a chance, had we conceded one more late goal that wouldn't have been the case!

[Moldy9]

Guys stop saying we don't have the player pool. I believe I read somewhere that this WCQ we used the most players some 40 or something. So we do have a pool. The problem was FLORO chose the WRONG PLAYERS. They were out of position, lower caliber, or unfit to play 45 minutes never mind 90! Had he gone with better fit players, that played in higher level then D2 and D3 maybe just maybe that 1-0 could've lasted a little longer. Johnson, Osorio, Bekker, Lefevre, Aird all played more minutes and had a lot more touches with the ball in competitive matches than most of the guys on the field yesterday. The man is just old and stubborn. 

[BrennanFan]

It's easy to scapegoat Floro.  We may not agree with all his decisions, but they were all reasonable.

In my view we lost yesterday due to the conditions. The heat. In a neutral venue Floros tactics and selections get the job done against a team like Honduras. We wilted in the second half, we did not have the legs to get back into our defensive shape. 

Our subs offered nothing.

Hoilett should have been saved as a sub, especially given his not being in game shape. Ricketts, maybe the best pure athlete we have, should have started. Bringing Hoilett and Johnson on in the second half could have done something for us.  More likely than Straith and Ledgerwood.

James and Henry didn't have great games, but what can you expect from guys in their first do or die away WCQ? Their experience will help us in 4 years.

It's too bad.  But where there's a will, there's a way.  If nothing else, I expect our Vancouver crowd to give Hutchinson the send off that he deserves on Tuesday.

[Moldy9]

Ok I just watched the game again on Bell On Demand. We really were not horrible. Unfortunate with the 45+2min goal that was screened.  Yes we definitely wilted from the 40c heat and humidity and soft ground. The guys did a great job stalling and taking their time conserving their energy. I just strongly believe Floro didn't put the right players on the field and their rust showed. Edgar at midfield? He looked sluggish and out of place. Could've easily done better in Jakovic spot who honestly 1 game in Japan's D2 is a lot to be desired. Johnson would've been more productive in Edgar's spot. You could've had Ledgerwood start instead of Henry. Henry 0 games in 2016. Slow and out of shape and got burnt for the winning goal. Ledgerwood has been playing regularly for FC Edmonton who are having a good season. Just stuff like that. I'd have gone with the most fit Cdns. 

[baulderdash77]

If we really looked at the best rotation then it would have been a totally different result.

Most people would have started Edgar over Jakovic and Ledgerwood or Aird (probably Ledgerwood) over Henry and had Johnson in Edgar's spot.  That would have been a big improvement over what we fielded.  Also most people would have had Osorio on the bench for a spark in the 2nd half.

We lost 2-1 and packed it in after 68" with the Ledgerwood sub.  I think these 3 roster moves would have given us a 1-1 draw.

Unfortunately Floro didn't call in, sub in or start players like this and it's really indefensible. The loss is a pure coaching loss IMO and not a program loss.  Player selection, player deployment and substitution patterns is why we lost this game.

  

[jonovision]

Nothing to say about yesterday other than the result was better than I would have expected, and that Honduras' anti-fair play ruse that led to their first goal was typical Central American cynical garbage and utterly unsurprising.

But a stray thought: Was that not one of the smaller pitches you've seen a match on, or were my eyes deceiving me? Seemed even smaller than NYCFC at Yankee Stadium.

[Addona]

7 minutes ago, jonovision said:

Nothing to say about yesterday other than the result was better than I would have expected, and that Honduras' anti-fair play ruse that led to their first goal was typical Central American cynical garbage and utterly unsurprising.

But a stray thought: Was that not one of the smaller pitches you've seen a match on, or were my eyes deceiving me? Seemed even smaller than NYCFC at Yankee Stadium.

Yeah, I couldn't believe my eyes when they didn't play the ball back to us ... like, WTF.  There is, hopefully, some F**KING bad karma coming for that.  And it led quite directly to their first goal.  Unbelievable.

That aside, I must say, I am surprised by the reaction on here.  Yes, I am disappointed that we didn't get at least a point, but we fought.  Maybe it didn't seem that way, because of the heat, but from what I could tell everyone was working their asses off.  It's true that I would have likely started someone like Straith instead of Jakovic, just because Straith has been consistently playing 90 minutes every week.  And maybe Ledge over Henry for the same reason.  Still, who knows if things would've turned out worst with these switches.

A 2-1 in SPS is not a terrible result by any stretch of the imagination.  It is the exact same scoreline that the U.S. had in their last visit their during the last HEX.  I was actually pretty damn proud of the way the team fought ... 

I know that the odds are long, but honestly, the other thing that hurt us (aside from the 0-0 away at ES) is the mere ordering of the matches (just bad luck there).  We have played 180 minutes vs. H. and it is 2-2.  We played 90 vs. ES at 0-0, and H has them 4-2 over 180 minutes (getting a goal in stoppage time of their home win) ... after Tuesday, maybe we could be +2 on ES as well.  The only reason we are lagging behind in GD is because we are down 5-0 to Mexico.  H is down 2-0, and has yet to play in Azteca.  If this weren't the last match, with nothing to play for, how many would pick Mexico to win 3-0 vs. H in Azteca ... This time around, there has been extremely little to chose between us and Honduras.

[NUFCfan]

I'm actually glad of the sequence of the games which I believe are in our favour. If we had played EL salvador at home before playing in Honduras we may have eked out a 1 or 2-0 win and gotten the same result in Honduras. Playing at home in the last match with El salvador having nothing to play for means we know what we have to do to qualify.

 

 

[hectorj]

It was around -4 in Winnipeg when we hosted Mexico in Vancouver in March. Can you imagine 35000 pro-Canadian fans and Mexico playing in the cold Canadian prairie? They don't win 3-0 in my opinion. That was a big mistake. Saying that, the scheduling has worked in our favour. If Mexico can pop in a couple of quick ones and Honduras is down 2-0 before 25 minutes, it'll boost our team and it will make Honduras shit their pants. I honestly think we'll both end up with 7 points and it'll be close regarding goal difference.

[Addona]

1 hour ago, hectorj said:

It was around -4 in Winnipeg when we hosted Mexico in Vancouver in March. Can you imagine 35000 pro-Canadian fans and Mexico playing in the cold Canadian prairie? They don't win 3-0 in my opinion. That was a big mistake. Saying that, the scheduling has worked in our favour. If Mexico can pop in a couple of quick ones and Honduras is down 2-0 before 25 minutes, it'll boost our team and it will make Honduras shit their pants. I honestly think we'll both end up with 7 points and it'll be close regarding goal difference.

Yes, but that is a HUGE if ...

[rightback]

3 hours ago, jonovision said:

But a stray thought: Was that not one of the smaller pitches you've seen a match on, or were my eyes deceiving me? Seemed even smaller than NYCFC at Yankee Stadium.

The thing that amazed me about that pitch was the way they could put through a long pass and the ball would just sit up like a pro golfer's approach to the green. I think that pitch and the Honduran's familiarity with it may have been a big factor.

[JamboAl]

I've had 24 hrs to think about yesterday and yes, we could have lost 6-1 yesterday but we didn't.  I'd like to think the Mexicans hate the Hondurans as much as us and will demand a good performance from their team.  It's up to us to try to win and win handsomely on Tuesday.  I'm still 20% optimistic we can pull this off.

[Moldy9]

40 minutes ago, dsqpr said:

This is a fun game to play because you always win! We will never know if your team (or mine!) would have done any better so be can just assume they would have won 10-0. We are good!!! The CSA needs us!

(Not having a go, just having a bit of fun while making my point )

Hey man It's all good, whether you're pro or anti Floro criticism is good for our game. If nobody bitched or couch quarterbacked then we truly would be a country of mediocrity. And the only people that truly give a damn about Canadian soccer are the Voyageurs.  Surely someone on the CSA payroll must be reading this and I'm sure some might agree with some of the supporters dissatisfaction. I saw a Michael Moore documentary and in Germany they actually take into consideration the concerns of their employees. They said if they didn't it would mean bad business and would be silly of them not to. 

[Moldy9]

11 minutes ago, dsqpr said:

Site would not be the same if people didn't offer up improvements to team and squad selection! But I hope people stay real and realize that their suggestions may have performed worse than the coach's.

Oh man watching yesterday's game I would've loved to re-make his picks. "Ok you Jakovic take a seat, you Edgar get your ass back in D." " Henry sit the f*ck down Ledgerwood get out there. " Larin, you okkkk??? Sit down. Jackson take his place, Ricketts inject your speed and take tired Hoillett off he's done. " DSQR when a coach makes amateur mistakes like playing his favorites, that are 1 not in shape and 2 out of position it really makes guys like me who criticize him look good and makes you wonder what if we actually did play in shape players or players comfortable in their position. 

[Big_M]

Mason Trafford got his 20th start of the season tonight in a 3-0 win. That's 20 more than Vitoria and 19 more than Jakovic.

[Stryker911]

9 hours ago, BrennanFan said:

It's easy to scapegoat Floro.  We may not agree with all his decisions, but they were all reasonable.

In my view we lost yesterday due to the conditions. The heat. In a neutral venue Floros tactics and selections get the job done against a team like Honduras. We wilted in the second half, we did not have the legs to get back into our defensive shape. 

Our subs offered nothing.

Hoilett should have been saved as a sub, especially given his not being in game shape. Ricketts, maybe the best pure athlete we have, should have started. Bringing Hoilett and Johnson on in the second half could have done something for us.  More likely than Straith and Ledgerwood.

James and Henry didn't have great games, but what can you expect from guys in their first do or die away WCQ? Their experience will help us in 4 years.

It's too bad.  But where there's a will, there's a way.  If nothing else, I expect our Vancouver crowd to give Hutchinson the send off that he deserves on Tuesday.

Hold on for a second. If Ricketts had started over Hoilett everyone would have freaked on Floro and said how much of an idiot he is. 

[RJB]

17 hours ago, Free kick said:

Yes. 

Stephen Hart has qualified his team for the hex.   Imagine that. 

So why couldn't he do it with Canada?  Was he a bad coach then, and a good coach now?  Or is it that he's the same coach, and they are just better than us?  Or is he a better coach now, rendering the whole thing moot? 

[nolando]

3 hours ago, Big_M said:

Mason Trafford got his 20th start of the season tonight in a 3-0 win. That's 20 more than Vitoria and 19 more than Jakovic.

Jakovic was awful, I thought. Not fair for Henry and James to get all the flack.

[Grizzly]

57 minutes ago, RJB said:

So why couldn't he do it with Canada?  Was he a bad coach then, and a good coach now?  Or is it that he's the same coach, and they are just better than us?  Or is he a better coach now, rendering the whole thing moot? 

Hart may be a better coach now than he was with us as he has had 4 more years experience including working very closely with Beenhaker. Still I think all the Hart revisionists are ignoring that Trinidad is in a much much easier group than we are. We were also in a much easier group 4 years ago when Hart was in charge. If we do not qualify this time it will likely be on goal differential. Switch us groups with Trinidad and I think we qualify. Also I watched the Trinidad - Guatemala game and Trinidad was very athletic and fit but they did not seem to play with much tactical shape. 

[BrennanFan]

2 hours ago, RJB said:

So why couldn't he do it with Canada?  Was he a bad coach then, and a good coach now?  Or is it that he's the same coach, and they are just better than us?  Or is he a better coach now, rendering the whole thing moot? 

He's the same guy with the same simple ideas. His team is no better than us. The difference is he was drawn into an easy group.  Guatemala is the weakest central American country in the round and St Vag is the weakest overall.  

If we were in that group, in place of Guatemala or TnT, we go through.

[Bertuzzi44]

Let's see how TnT do in the Hex, but congrats to Hart in the meantime!

[Lurker]

I'm happy to see Hart is doing well... our stretch in the 2008 Gold Cup leading up to our failed 2010 qualification was one of our more enjoyable periods of play to watch.  We moved the ball, created chances, looked like a serious contender...

... one thing to keep in mind is Hart is guiding a team ranked in the Top 6... which means he only has to face one team in this round of any major concern.  Guatemala is no push over but between them and the Bakery it wasn't a surprise that he guided this team into the Hex.  If we could get ranked in the top 6 then things would be a lot simpler for us as well.  (Apologies for basically repeating what BrennanFan said).