Vic Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 Curious where our men's team would be if we used the approach like we do with the women - pick 20 affordable players and pay their salaries and run a year-round residency program. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unnamed Trialist Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 Have to agree with those questioning Piette here, not because he's bad, but because he IS fourth tier in a weak division and he is playing at least two tiers below others sitting on the bench. There is a minimum hierarchy that should be respected, and club play is the only play to base real quality on, except when a player does dramatically different things with one team than with another. Basically a way to say yes, Osorio and Teibert have the quality and the club experience to be doing what they are required and contributing in more important ways than Piette. Even Bekker plays at a higher level, and JDG does not but we understand to at least have the chops and experience. I have a certain sympathy for Floro, me living in Spain, and having met him when we played Mauritania, he's a good guy, dead honest, what he says is mostly right and obviously he's a serious professional coach. But I have never been on the bandwagon, mostly because I'm a Barcelona supporter and yes, I have no sympathy for a former Real Madrid man. Even today he is fanatically anti-Barcelona, so screw him on that level. But like the way I respect Del Bosque working with Spain, for his character and quality, I am pleased to let Floro have his time, build what he has to build, and work for the results he thinks he can get for us. Floro said he wanted to play at least 4 or 5 matches this Gold Cup, to prepare for the qualifying, so for sure he has underperformed in his own terms, and will consider he has not been up to par if can't get by Costa Rica. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nolando Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 According to his twitter feed, Carlo Corazzin is apparently not on the wagon. https://mobile.twitter.com/carloc19 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJB Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 I mean if you look at the rankings in CONCACAF, Haiti and El Salvador are ahead of us. And deservedly so. Canada is not very good I'm afraid, and it isn't Floro's fault. We are a minnow, and putting in Russel Teibert or Osorio isn't going to magically solve all of our problems. It's interesting how the CSA and the Voyageurs threw everything into getting clubs in MLS. But TFC is in their ninth season, Whitecaps are in their fifth, and Montreal is in their fourth. Some good this has done us at the national team level. Duane Rollins, in this blogpost said that Floro dropped a bombshell when he said MLS is a foreign league. Bombshell? Really? And Floro said that we are working for the American system. Another bombshell? Not only are we underserved, but we are misleading ourselves to think that MLS somehow is partly Canadian. It isn't, it's American, that's NOT a bombshell, and perhaps we should start to consider that as part of the problem. Of course, watch us beat Costa Rica, and slip into the quarters. Despite this diatribe, the tournament is at this point far from over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shamrock Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 And deservedly so. Canada is not very good I'm afraid, and it isn't Floro's fault. We are a minnow, and putting in Russel Teibert or Osorio isn't going to magically solve all of our problems. It's interesting how the CSA and the Voyageurs threw everything into getting clubs in MLS. But TFC is in their ninth season, Whitecaps are in their fifth, and Montreal is in their fourth. Some good this has done us at the national team level. Duane Rollins, in this blogpost said that Floro dropped a bombshell when he said MLS is a foreign league. Bombshell? Really? And Floro said that we are working for the American system. Another bombshell? Not only are we underserved, but we are misleading ourselves to think that MLS somehow is partly Canadian. It isn't, it's American, that's NOT a bombshell, and perhaps we should start to consider that as part of the problem. Of course, watch us beat Costa Rica, and slip into the quarters. Despite this diatribe, the tournament is at this point far from over. You have reached your quota of positive votes for the day Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
finchster Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 And deservedly so. Canada is not very good I'm afraid, and it isn't Floro's fault. We are a minnow, and putting in Russel Teibert or Osorio isn't going to magically solve all of our problems. It's interesting how the CSA and the Voyageurs threw everything into getting clubs in MLS. But TFC is in their ninth season, Whitecaps are in their fifth, and Montreal is in their fourth. Some good this has done us at the national team level. Duane Rollins, in this blogpost said that Floro dropped a bombshell when he said MLS is a foreign league. Bombshell? Really? And Floro said that we are working for the American system. Another bombshell? Not only are we underserved, but we are misleading ourselves to think that MLS somehow is partly Canadian. It isn't, it's American, that's NOT a bombshell, and perhaps we should start to consider that as part of the problem. Of course, watch us beat Costa Rica, and slip into the quarters. Despite this diatribe, the tournament is at this point far from over. We finished 9th and 11th at the last two gold cups and we will do the same this time. We aren't very good, we lack talent and no coach can turn chicken s*** into chicken soup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Ref Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 We finished 9th and 11th at the last two gold cups and we will do the same this time. We aren't very good, we lack talent and no coach can turn chicken s*** into chicken soup. Don't argue with that. How many different coaches have we gone through! and little to nothing changes. What do these coaches really expect to do after they have a look at the players we got. Is it fair for the CSA to really think that there is somebody in this world that will coach our teams to endless success. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
finchster Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 Don't argue with that. How many different coaches have we gone through! and little to nothing changes. What do these coaches really expect to do after they have a look at the players we got. Is it fair for the CSA to really think that there is somebody in this world that will coach our teams to endless success. It's kind of depressing for me in a way, I was looking at our last 5 gold cup entries. You can see a slow steady decrease in talent. I wish we had a real coach around 04-09, maybe we could've done something Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob.notenboom Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 Thinking back to the 2013 Gold Cup I just remember thinking that we never looked like we were going to score. We almost never created half chances or full chances. It's a very small improvement perhaps but we have had more clear-cut chances in these two games. Admittedly I expected better (and a different lineup) vs El Salvador, but I'm not ready to run Floro out of town yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David C. Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 We finished 9th and 11th at the last two gold cups and we will do the same this time. We aren't very good, we lack talent and no coach can turn chicken s*** into chicken soup. That's certainly a fair point but I do believe that a good coach can help a program improve within a reasonable range. Sure, we may not be talented enough to knock off the top six teams that made up the last HEX, however, I do believe that we should at least aim to entrench our program as the clear 7th best in CONCACAF - firmly taking care of the Trinidads, Cubas, Guatemalas and El Salvadors of the region. We failed that goal with the El Salvador match and that's the one that really stings with me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
finchster Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 I am in favour of keeping Floro because he ISN'T the guy to lead us anywhere. Sounds strange, but Canada is now at the bottom (I hope) in terms of our national team. He's a guy to bring respectability to our program while our players are terrible. I'd rather have him around now and hopefully when our program turns around we can get someone to bring us somewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keegan Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 We finished 9th and 11th at the last two gold cups and we will do the same this time. We aren't very good, we lack talent and no coach can turn chicken s*** into chicken soup. Plenty of teams with our level of talent have success in world football. Iraq and UAE at the recent Asian Cup.. Zambia winning the African Cup. Bolivia/Venezeula at the recent Copa America. North Korea qualified for the 2010 World Cup FFS. I wouldn't trade our talent pool/clubs with any of those nations yet they find success. And we even did it in 2000, so it is possible. Treat every match as a battle, don't look beyond teams and you can go places. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
finchster Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 Plenty of teams with our level of talent have success in world football. Iraq and UAE at the recent Asian Cup.. Zambia winning the African Cup. Bolivia/Venezeula at the recent Copa America. North Korea qualified for the 2010 World Cup FFS. I wouldn't trade our talent pool/clubs with any of those nations yet they find success. And we even did it in 2000, so it is possible. Treat every match as a battle, don't look beyond teams and you can go places. I think you mean to say these teams had success not have success. Sure these teams can put together a good run of games in a short tournament, but long term it isn't sustainable. Canada went to the World Cup in 86, won the Gold Cup in 2000, 3rd in 2002, technically finished 3rd in the Gold Cup in 2007. I think we had a good generation of players at that time and found some level of success. Right now our player pool is it's weakest that I can remember. So really we had some success and now we are playing where this talent will take us, no where. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 It's kind of depressing for me in a way, I was looking at our last 5 gold cup entries. You can see a slow steady decrease in talent. I wish we had a real coach around 04-09, maybe we could've done something What has been particularly sad is the decline in player quality over the last 15-20 years. There was a blip there in 03/04/05 but otherwise it's been all downhill. The guys playing for other countries has been a massive blow to an already flawed system. I don't agree with their decisions and how they went about them (save for maybe Begovic, if the rumours are true) but I can't argue with the rationale. I used to argue with American and Mexican fans that we were Concacaf's sleeper. They used to laugh me out of the room, saying that it was the Ticos that were underrated and they have been proven correct. I used to feel that supporting Canada was an eternally positive experience because there was nowhere to go but up - the issue was always how slow would that rise be - but that simply hasn't proven the case since the 1990s. What is most crushing is that our decline has had an inverse relationship to attendance at matches. If only we'd had today's attendances back in the 1990s or 2000s. As is the case for 50-60 percent of countries in FIFA, we just are not very good and probably won't ever be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theaub Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 You just need that one guy who is a truly generational talent and is committed to the country (the Milos effect) or the one transcendent club talent that draws a bunch of kids and capital into the game (the Vince effect). Obviously both of those aren't something you can control though. Just need to hope it happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theaub Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 Also John Molinaro @JohnMolinaro 6m6 minutes ago Just asked Benito about his tactics and formation. Doesn't sound like he's going to abandon his approach vs Costa Rica. #canMNT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keegan Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 What has been particularly sad is the decline in player quality over the last 15-20 years. There was a blip there in 03/04/05 but otherwise it's been all downhill. The guys playing for other countries has been a massive blow to an already flawed system. I don't agree with their decisions and how they went about them (save for maybe Begovic, if the rumours are true) but I can't argue with the rationale. I used to argue with American and Mexican fans that we were Concacaf's sleeper. They used to laugh me out of the room, saying that it was the Ticos that were underrated back in the 90s and 2000s and they have been proven correct. I used to feel that supporting Canada was an eternally positive experience because there was nowhere to go but up - the issue was always how slow would that rise be - but that simply hasn't proven the case since the 1990s. As is the case for 50-60 percent of countries in FIFA, we just are not very good and probably won't ever be. BS. We have the resources, population and league to be a good nation at the level of Switzerland in the next 20 years. We just need our damn association to grab the bull (MLS) by the horns and make it work for us. Or start up a national league or anything! Mo Balbouli should not be 22 years old and playing USL for Toronto FC II, he should be a on a first team for a Canadian club. Realistically we have resources greater than 80% of FIFA countries at least. And with the game growing in this country at an unbelievable pace we will see change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
king1010 Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 Also John Molinaro @JohnMolinaro 6m6 minutes ago Just asked Benito about his tactics and formation. Doesn't sound like he's going to abandon his approach vs Costa Rica. #canMNT Well at least he'll die on his sword if we crash out of the Gold Cup and WCQ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
finchster Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 What has been particularly sad is the decline in player quality over the last 15-20 years. There was a blip there in 03/04/05 but otherwise it's been all downhill. I used to feel that supporting Canada was an eternally positive experience because there was nowhere to go but up - the issue was always how slow or fast - but that simply hasn't been the case. The guys playing for other countries has been a massive blow to an already flawed system. We just are not very good, and probably won't ever be. I have some hope that young established guys like Teibert, Osorio, Larin, Akindele, Henry, Adekugbe, Petrasso will be the backbone of our team in the near future. If they can continue to develop and we have some young prospects come through, I hope we are at the bottom in terms of MNT quality right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
koolvid Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 BS. We have the resources, population and league to be a good nation at the level of Switzerland in the next 20 years. We just need our damn association to grab the bull (MLS) by the horns and make it work for us. Or start up a national league or anything! Mo Balbouli should not be 22 years old and playing USL for Toronto FC II, he should be a on a first team for a Canadian club. Realistically we have resources greater than 80% of FIFA countries at least. And with the game growing in this country at an unbelievable pace we will see change. The game is growing faster in the states and blow us out the water in resources. Yet there is a better chance for the USA to become a world power than us producing a squad like switzerland in 20 years:(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Switzerland_national_football_team) I highly doubt we'll have most of our players playing in division 1 regularly in germany/italy/ect.. They actually have a league filled with locals while we only have 3 teams part of another nations league and only 1 of those clubs having at most 1/4 canadians in the entire squad, Montreal in the CCL never started a canadian in quarters to finals I believe, nor was their coach canadian. "Canadian club" eh? The culture/history of soccer difference between both nations is huge as well. How about we start producing better talent then say a 200k populated country like Iceland? or 5 million Costa Rica? 3 million Uruguay? Unfortunately resources aren't the end be all, soccer culture and a stable league is. We won't be top 20 in 20 years come like Switzerland, especially without having a league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sose Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 You just need that one guy who is a truly generational talent and is committed to the country (the Milos effect) or the one transcendent club talent that draws a bunch of kids and capital into the game (the Vince effect). Obviously both of those aren't something you can control though. Just need to hope it happens. The giovinco effect ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearcatSA Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 Well at least he'll die on his sword if we crash out of the Gold Cup and WCQ. Also John Molinaro @JohnMolinaro 6m6 minutes ago Just asked Benito about his tactics and formation. Doesn't sound like he's going to abandon his approach vs Costa Rica. #canMNT So, Straith and De Guzman to start in mid. Are we going to see either Teibert or Osorio join them in place of Piette, or will it be a return for Bekker? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
koolvid Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 Plenty of teams with our level of talent have success in world football. Iraq and UAE at the recent Asian Cup.. Zambia winning the African Cup. Bolivia/Venezeula at the recent Copa America. North Korea qualified for the 2010 World Cup FFS. I wouldn't trade our talent pool/clubs with any of those nations yet they find success. And we even did it in 2000, so it is possible. Treat every match as a battle, don't look beyond teams and you can go places. Just thought I should say that you are severely underrating Venezuela if you think they're clearly not better then us. On paper/player pool it's obvious and recent results from the last 2 copa americas show they're on the upward even if they didn't do that well this year. I would also trade 3 clubs that if you bombined all together would not be able to form a full 23 canadian roster over an actual league filled with native players like the countries you mentioned above. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oilers000 Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 I've never been on the Floro bandwagon. From day one I thought it was a bad choice and I still think today that it is a bad choice! Benito Floro has also never managed to keep a job for more than 2 years. In what mindset did we think that Benito Floro can turn this program around when he's never kept a job for more than 2 years?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dub Narcotic Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 One thing this team can do is play together more. This has always been an issue, the team should be playing on way more friendly dates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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