Keegan Posted July 12, 2015 Share Posted July 12, 2015 Jamaica only scoring once flatters Canada. Canada was outshot 21 to 7. 6 shots on target to 2. In terms of chances: Canada missed one clear cut chance and Piette spurned another. I can't remember Canada creating a real chance after the 30th minute, though I'm prepared to be corrected. Play that game 10 times and, based on that shot ratio and chances generated, Canada probably wins twice, draws three times, and loses half the time. And, for the record, I unequivocally agree with ynwa: there's no point in giving up on Floro before WCQ concludes. I can still imagine it all working out. We could even win on Tuesday. I just reserve the right to think that he's not making the best of a bad situation before we get there. I don't think them scoring once flatters us at all. Look at the USA they've been outshot in both matches so far and they thrive. We are going to be a team that concedes shots against but that doesn't necessarily mean chances. We need to take advantage on the break and that's why we are favouring Ricketts and Akindele on the wings instead of Teibert/Osorio. As for chances we had quite a few early on. Larin's header from the JDG flick, Piette's blocked shot and of course Ricketts breakaway. 1 clear cut chance and 2 half chances in the first 15 minutes and then we fell off. Jamaica was clearly more talented than us on the day but obviously our plan wasn't to out skill them. We just need to find the net, period. Floro isn't the problem, the backline isn't the problem either. We can't score and everyone knows it, casuals at the local bar I was watching at even said to me and my friends "are we going to score this year?". I wanted Piette to unleash one with that hammer of a right peg from distance. We didn't challenge that keeper. One major disappointment thus far has been our set pieces. Come on... Where are the creative plays that we saw in friendlies? Where is the quick thinking? And even if we are going to send them in conventionally where is the delivery? Are we holding all our tricks until WCQ? LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theaub Posted July 12, 2015 Share Posted July 12, 2015 Thinking about it more this morning. I get what Floro is trying. Strategically it probably makes sense. Canada does need to be hard to beat away in WCQ to have any hope of actually making it through the Hex. We could possibly get through the semi round playing something a little more expansive and ambitious. By the Hex, however, we'd always be outgunned. Combined with our lack of strength in depth, that means we will almost certainly have to rely on players like Bekker, Straith, Piette, Hainault, etc. at some point. But as a fan, after years of not scoring at this tournament, my God does it suck. Floro didn't live through that, and suffer along with us. And it won't be any easier to get folks to actually watch this team. It's the dilemma of Canada: we need wins to get people to care, but we (probably) need to play ugly to get wins in the games that matter. And if the result is making games ugly, yet still not getting results... I mean, we are the Greece of North America. Just we're not broke. I do completely agree with the strategy. A match like Panama away in 2012 is where I think Floro is able to use his organizational tactics to get us a 0-0 draw and then its just settling for a 1-0 loss in Honduras and going off to the hex. I just don't think this is the place to try it. Go schedule more friendlies in Central America if we want to work on bunkering. I don't think them scoring once flatters us at all. Look at the USA they've been outshot in both matches so far and they thrive. We are going to be a team that concedes shots against but that doesn't necessarily mean chances. We need to take advantage on the break and that's why we are favouring Ricketts and Akindele on the wings instead of Teibert/Osorio. As for chances we had quite a few early on. Larin's header from the JDG flick, Piette's blocked shot and of course Ricketts breakaway. 1 clear cut chance and 2 half chances in the first 15 minutes and then we fell off. Jamaica was clearly more talented than us on the day but obviously our plan wasn't to out skill them. We just need to find the net, period. Floro isn't the problem, the backline isn't the problem either. We can't score and everyone knows it, casuals at the local bar I was watching at even said to me and my friends "are we going to score this year?". I wanted Piette to unleash one with that hammer of a right peg from distance. We didn't challenge that keeper. One major disappointment thus far has been our set pieces. Come on... Where are the creative plays that we saw in friendlies? Where is the quick thinking? And even if we are going to send them in conventionally where is the delivery? Are we holding all our tricks until WCQ? LOL This is also true. By nature, a team that is going to be largely dependent on the counter attack needs to have clinical strikers or they are just a terrible team. Needless to say our striking has been...less than clinical so far. I thought we had one decent set piece against ESV but it was designed for Piette who doesn't strike me as the guy who should be heading the ball there. Outside of de Jong kicking it sideways off the wall and an iffy short corner play did we even have a true set piece chance yesterday? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free kick Posted July 12, 2015 Share Posted July 12, 2015 as much as it bugs me to say it, i am off the bandwagon. When it come to cocahes, i seldom jump on bandwagons to begin with. It bugs me because anytime we discuss and debate NT coach's, we are really overlooking the bigger picture. In the bigger picture, there is no star talent and or there is a collective overall issue with talent. i am not sure anyone could have success with the current pool. But, a coach has to play the best players at his disposal and it doesnt seem to me that he is. Also, there problem that we are seeing time and time again over the past 20years with european coaches comming over. It seems to me that they bring preconceived biases with them rather than comming with an open mind. North american is not like europe in the way you have to operate here. You can bring your tactical acumen but talent evalution is not done for you like it is in europe. we saw this with Oscieck, with Klinsman and now with floro. they dismiss (without properly assesing) domestic profesional talent and assume that some guy in some beer league in europe is more noteworthy than some key contributors play proffesionally at home. Yallop, a north american coach, actually opened his eyes to home grown talent and some surprises were revealed. and with Yallop, it seems that the best availble got called up. I might be wrong, but has anybody ever seen Floro at an MLS game? honnest question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DigzTFC Posted July 12, 2015 Share Posted July 12, 2015 I'm still on it. I don't like the tactics but that's our talent pool right now. Most of our players play at a low level and hardly get regular minutes. Fitness is an issue. Talent is an issue. The only thing we can do is put our tactics together so that we are hard to breakdown. We did that. We just have nothing going forward. That's because our midfield lacks talent. Larin and Akindele score in MLS because of strong service. Take away that service and that's what you got. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nolbertos Posted July 12, 2015 Share Posted July 12, 2015 as much as it bugs me to say it, i am off the bandwagon. When it come to cocahes, i seldom jump on bandwagons to begin with. It bugs me because anytime we discuss and debate NT coach's, we are really overlooking the bigger picture. In the bigger picture, there is no star talent and or there is a collective overall issue with talent. i am not sure anyone could have success with the current pool. But, a coach has to play the best players at his disposal and it doesnt seem to me that he is. Also, there problem that we are seeing time and time again over the past 20years with european coaches comming over. It seems to me that they bring preconceived biases with them rather than comming with an open mind. North american is not like europe in the way you have to operate here. You can bring your tactical acumen but talent evalution is not done for you like it is in europe. we saw this with Oscieck, with Klinsman and now with floro. they dismiss (without properly assesing) domestic profesional talent and assume that some guy in some beer league in europe is more noteworthy than some key contributors play proffesionally at home. Yallop, a north american coach, actually opened his eyes to home grown talent and some surprises were revealed. and with Yallop, it seems that the best availble got called up. I might be wrong, but has anybody ever seen Floro at an MLS game? honnest question. It was a different era though. When Osieck preferred Europeans over domestics, there weren't many Canadians in MLS in 2001, and I think he got way better results than Floro, as Floro has MLS Canadian sides academy player to choose from, while Osieck had Scottish 3rd Division players to choose from. Osieck got more resuts with little raw product. The same can't be said of Floro. At this stage of 2015, I think we can benefit with more MLS qualified coaches that have coached in Canada at least, played in Champions league action and know the local scene inside out. MLS is getting better, but where not at the stage where Jurgen criticIzes MLs that the players are world champion calibre, we're at the stage where making a Hex is seen as positive progress. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tuscan Posted July 12, 2015 Share Posted July 12, 2015 Ryan give your head a shake... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Floortom Posted July 12, 2015 Share Posted July 12, 2015 I might be wrong, but has anybody ever seen Floro at an MLS game? honnest question. Floro is at most TFC home games Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theaub Posted July 12, 2015 Share Posted July 12, 2015 #FloroHatesCanada Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
finchster Posted July 12, 2015 Share Posted July 12, 2015 What were we expecting? Our national team is currently so bereft of talent we are a 10th place team in CONCACAF, especially with our current injuries. Having said that, the team selection is non-sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
king1010 Posted July 12, 2015 Share Posted July 12, 2015 What were we expecting? Our national team is currently so bereft of talent we are a 10th place team in CONCACAF, especially with our current injuries. Having said that, the team selection is non-sense. I was expecting a top 8 finish and copa qualifcation. Losing in the qfs. Dont think thats much to expect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearcatSA Posted July 12, 2015 Share Posted July 12, 2015 In the bigger picture, there is no star talent and or there is a collective overall issue with talent. i am not sure anyone could have success with the current pool. We are a team of supporting cast role players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
finchster Posted July 12, 2015 Share Posted July 12, 2015 I was expecting a top 8 finish and copa qualifcation. Losing in the qfs. Dont think thats much to expect. With players like Lederwood, Piette, Straith, De Guzman and Ricketts in the starting line up we aren't going anywhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madmonte Posted July 12, 2015 Author Share Posted July 12, 2015 I'm not on or off by the Floro bandwagon. He's made our team a team difficult to beat.I'm pretty sure that 8-1 won't happen now under Floro. Now, is there a creativity problem? Yes, but I don't think that Teibert and Osorio fix everything. It's possible that some of them don't like the system. I don't think that the coach is that good, but he isn't as bad as we want to say. Still, he needs a good showing against Costa Rica IMO. Now, it would be interesting to see now that Canada needs a win to advance. How will Floro manage a game now that he needs it? In fairness, before 8-1 happened, our team also looked very tough to beat. And tough to score against. Under Hart. If you think that won't happen under Floro, that's fine, but to me I don't see any improvements or reasons we are better under Floro. We had defensive organization and such under Hart as well. I don't see how Floro is doing it that much better, to be honest? Ryan give your head a shake... I'm a fair guy Jeff. I'm a little disillusioned, but I can be won back, I just want to see better decision making. I agree with one thing squizz said on twitter the other day, to be a hardcore supporter does mean you give support unconditionally. But it doesn't mean that you can't question and critique. The bandwagon is a funny thing...I only recently fell off... If 1) The players Floro chooses suddenly perform on a club/national level at a level that surprises me, I'll go "Oh, Floro was right all along", that's why he's the coach and we are just fans or 2) Floro learns from these performances and starts changing tactically to adjust, and improves the results accordingly We can all be won back. Floro is definitely not an idiot. Tactically I don't think he's all that far off for what we will need to do against GREAT opposition, and we will probably see hints of that with a partisan home crowd against Costa Rica. But against weaker opposition, I'm not a fan of how he puts out the lineups, and think he needs to allow a little more freedom on the offensive tactical side of things so we aren't so predictable. And some of the players he has out there aren't even capable of that. Perhaps tactically, he's so concerned with defensive positioning, that it makes the offence too rigid and structurally predictable. You can only deal with the players you have, but the frustrating thing is that there are players riding pine that can do what is being talked about here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
king1010 Posted July 12, 2015 Share Posted July 12, 2015 With players like Lederwood, Piette, Straith, De Guzman and Ricketts in the starting line up we aren't going anywhere.Define "going anywhere". I dont think top 8 is unreasonable with those players. I also dont think losing in the qfs is an example of "going somewhere" Also piette is a highly rated player at deportivo. And the coach doesnt have to play any of them when osorio teibert and morgan should be on the pitch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obinna Posted July 12, 2015 Share Posted July 12, 2015 I have one foot dangling off the bandwagon, waiting on Tuesday's starting 11 to make the leap. If Teibert and Osorio are NOT starting, it's madness. If Ricketts gets another start, it's madness. If this team is not something close to: ---------------Stama--------------- Ledgerwood--Jakovic--Edgar--Morgan/de Jong -------------de Guzman------------ Akindele--Teibert--Osorio---Tissot/Jackson ---------------Larin--------------------- Then, it's madness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
finchster Posted July 12, 2015 Share Posted July 12, 2015 Define "going anywhere". I dont think top 8 is unreasonable with those players. I also dont think losing in the qfs is an example of "going somewhere" Also piette is a highly rated player at deportivo. And the coach doesnt have to play any of them when osorio teibert and morgan should be on the pitch. Piette is playing in the 4th division in Spain. Several years ago a player like that wouldn't have got a call up no matter how highly touted, and he is starting. I mean if you look at the rankings in CONCACAF, Haiti and El Salvador are ahead of us. But the other teams USA, Mexico, Costa Rica, Panama, T&T, Jamaica, and Honduras are all clearly better than Canada right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearcatSA Posted July 12, 2015 Share Posted July 12, 2015 I have one foot dangling off the bandwagon, waiting on Tuesday's starting 11 to make the leap. If Teibert and Osorio are NOT starting, it's madness. If Ricketts gets another start, it's madness. If this team is not something close to: ---------------Stama--------------- Ledgerwood--Jakovic--Edgar--Morgan/de Jong -------------de Guzman------------ Akindele--Teibert--Osorio---Tissot/Jackson ---------------Larin--------------------- Then, it's madness. Ledgerwood is caution ineligible, so either Ouimette or Hainault will be the RB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
youllneverwalkalone Posted July 12, 2015 Share Posted July 12, 2015 Ledgerwood is caution ineligible, so either Ouimette or Hainault will be the RB And here I thought we had nothing to look forward to! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearcatSA Posted July 12, 2015 Share Posted July 12, 2015 And here I thought we had nothing to look forward to! They're all interchangeable, though in a goal-shy side Hainault has always shown a knack for getting his head on attacking free kicks and corners, so I'd go with him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madmonte Posted July 12, 2015 Author Share Posted July 12, 2015 Actually one of the things I considered was that Floro was just hoping to get enough strength and physicality inside of the oppositions' box to guarantee a headed goal off a Teibert corner or free kick. I have to wonder if JDG WAS about to get subbed but was like DUDE NO! PIETTE IS ALSO SHORT! Maybe it's just that simple...enough big tall scrappy bodies in the box in the last ten minutes, and how can Jamaica contend if we get a corner? Is that a possible thought process for Floro in terms of the Hainault sub? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
koolvid Posted July 12, 2015 Share Posted July 12, 2015 Floro's squad selections are puzzling, yes. But are we really aiming our fire in the right direction here? Facts: - We've conceded ONE goal competitively so far under Floro - In both matches we missed clear cut chances. Did Floro miss them? No. We are tough to beat. Let's do what we can as supporters and cheer our boys on to a goal at home because I'm confident we can keep a zero with Floro at the helm. The one goal we conceded was down to a lack of concentration/fatigue... Jamaica outnumbered us in the box on ONE cross and buried it. As for the selections, I'm as puzzled as anyone. I thought he was rotating the squad and that's why vs. ES we played such a lineup... but we play a match THREE days later in scorching temperatures and make one change while leaving players who showed a spark last match on the bench? What's that all about... playing for the zero? Addressing the bold. Hypotheticals are useless excuses, you can say the same what ifs in World Cup tournaments and you'll see different results/winners in history. The best team finishes its chances period. With that being said ES and Jamaica have each had more chances then we did. Jamaica clearly could have won by more. In the end we can't complain about such results when they created more chances and outplayed us. I have no idea why you're making excuses for bad our defending on the lone goal we gave up but not giving excuses for Jamaica's bad finishing. They were bound to score the way we were getting dominated. So far our ranking is giving us justice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
king1010 Posted July 12, 2015 Share Posted July 12, 2015 Piette is playing in the 4th division in Spain. Several years ago a player like that wouldn't have got a call up no matter how highly touted, and he is starting. I mean if you look at the rankings in CONCACAF, Haiti and El Salvador are ahead of us. But the other teams USA, Mexico, Costa Rica, Panama, T&T, Jamaica, and Honduras are all clearly better than Canada right now. Huh? Several years ago piette did get called to the gold cup? Aleman too. So the exact player like that did get called up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince193 Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 No point in hopping off the bandwagon. According to Rollins, Squizz and Schuller, Canada can only ever hope to aspire to scrape out 0-0 draws or narrow losses. Guys like Osorio and Aleman have no place in Canada with their creativity. We have to bunker, especially against teams we are better than. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madmonte Posted July 13, 2015 Author Share Posted July 13, 2015 ^Sarcasm. Pointing out that this is sarcasm before this thread jumps off the rails with responses of people with no "Sarcasm-Meter" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheeta Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 I don't know. 3 matches in 7 days spread over what? 5,000 km? Ug. Aside from being a bit stingy with the subs I'm not going to beat up on Floro just yet, especially over squad selectgion.. That's a BRUTAL schedule for a team lacking any sort of quality in squad depth so you make due with what you have. If the gaffer feels he has to save his best for Toronto and the Canada supports then great. Glad to see it. If however, he feels the Gold Cup is just another opportunity to try to develop his line up and not concern himself with results, well, me and senor Floro are going to have a serious difference of opinion. Stern words will be exchanged. All in all I'm not discouraged at this point at all. Well, aside from the worrying lack of goal scoring. But the answer to THAT is beyond any mortal man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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