The Floro Bandwagon

[madmonte]

He's been at the helm a while implementing his system.  Are the results there?  Not yet.  6-0 against Dominica is still less impressive than our results against, say, St Lucia last run-around. 

 

I can't believe he continues to choose all defensive players in the midfield and won't give the creative mids more chances.  Tactically I'm not impressed.  Formation wise, I'm not impressed.  I think Floro is trying to make the squad as defensive as possible, which frankly is no better than how Hart approached it.

 

Need offence, and always have.  With your cock, Floro.  With your cock.

[BearcatSA]

Back in October in this thread I gave my guess as to what to expect from Floro and this has been shown to be the case, so far.  It's not that much different than what Trappattoni did with the Republic of Ireland. 

[BearcatSA]

It's also kinda like having Preki run your national team.

[gigi riva]

  I  was  never  on or  off  the  Bandwagon   I    think  Floro  is  not  the  problem  when  he  came  here   at   first   he  had  to  deal  with  a  lot,  of  nonsense .  Look   I  did  not  expect  anything  from   this  Gold  Cup   to  start  with  any  way,  I  am  more  concerned  with  WC Qualifying.  Our  team  is  maybe the youngest in  the  Tournament   Our  two starting  strikers    are  20,  and 22,   Piette   is  20   also,   compared  to  other  teams  that  is  young.  I    cannot  figure  why  Oso  and  Tiebert  are  not  starting   that  I  do  find  weird.  Our  major  problem  here  is  we  do  not  have  that  Andrea  Pirlo  kind  of  player  someone  who  take  control  of  a  game  hold  the  ball   make  that perfect  pass,  That  is  kind  of  player you  cannot  coach  they  just come  naturally.

 

              Goalkeeping   we  are  fine  ,   At  the  back   we  are  ok   but  we  could  use  some  improvements,   Midfield   we  do  need  help  big  time.  We  just  do not  hold  possession   we  just  kick  it  around.  At  forward   we  will   be  good  I  am  okay  with  Larin,  Akedele. and  Habar,  but  with  more  experience  they  will  get  better, and  hopefully  some  other  guys  will  come  in  and  challenge  for  a  spot. 

 

                All   Canada  needs  is  better  coaching,   and  more  clubs.

[matthew]

I think it's better that we didn't manage a 0-0 draw today and that Larin missed because it might mask the obvious: you can't win a match without midfielders. And we aren't playing any. You can argue that Akindele and Ricketts aren't out-and-out strikers, but the difference for me is that neither one defends worth a damn. And I know Straith plays a little d-mid for Fredrikstad. To me he is and always will be a defender. We finished the Jamaica match with six defenders on the pitch. Four of them were centre halves. If a match is still up for grabs, in my opinion you cannot win it with six defenders on the pitch.

 

We've shown some good movement in friendlies and showed some tactical creativity and until the Gold Cup (inexplicably) it looked like we were putting real time and effort into our set pieces. But this goes beyond player selection. We would be much better with Johnson and Hutchinson. Teibert and Osorio should be playing, if not both starting. But beyond the player's he's choosing, it's what it says: we're here to destroy. We're here to prevent soccer from happening. We're here to defend.

 

I am fine with us being organized and being a counter-attacking team. That's just realistic. But we were already forcing round pegs into square holes with the 4-1-4-1 and it keeps getting worse and worse as the matches get more important.

 

If we don't play three honest-to-god midfielders in the centre of the field against Costa Rica in a match we need to win I will assume Floro to be either a coward, senile or incorrigible. 

 

cheers,

matthew

[Gian-Luca]

My confidence in Floro was at a high after the loss against Colombia because we looked so organized and disciplined. My confidence took a serious knock after that Hainault sub last night. It signified several things: 1. He was content with holding on for 0-0 draw as the best possible result in a game we needed to win 2. He believed in parking the bus against a team that, at best, most people would only give a slight personnel edge to based on available rosters 3. In order to achieve such lofty goals, he is willing to play players out of position and in positions they have never played before and are totally unsuitable for.

Even if he felt that the team was tiring badly in the heat in Houston and a win in the second was out of out hands and a draw was the best we could do, the best way to preserve that would have been to sub in a midfielder capable of running around with some energy and keeping possession, exactly the sort of qualities that Hainault isn't going to give you in the middle of the park (which is one reason why no club ever employs him there!). This is not a criticism of Andre, any more than it would be a criticism of Lars if he was inserted as a striker.

[Addona]

Even if he felt that the team was tiring badly in the heat in Houston and a win in the second was out of out hands and a draw was the best we could do, the best way to preserve that would have been to sub in a midfielder capable of running around with some energy and keeping possession, exactly the sort of qualities that Hainault isn't going to give you in the middle of the park (which is one reason why no club ever employs him there!). This is not a criticism of Andre, any more than it would be a criticism of Lars if he was inserted as a striker.

 

Yes.  This.  This exactly.  It was pretty clear to me that our players were completely, totally, and utterly gassed .  Now, part of that was not making a few changes in the 11 with so few days of rest after match 1.  If he had started RT and JO, and maybe Morgan and Hainault at LB and RB, respectively, then we would have had more fresh legs out there to begin with.

 

BUT, even if he was thinking what I was thinking around minute 60, which was "we are completely gassed and can do no better than 0-0, he still could have subbed in JO in midfield instead of AH.  RT came in and gave a few guys a breather by winning some possession, and JO could have done the same.

[youllneverwalkalone]

I was firmly in the hiring a foreign manager camp, particularly one without a shiny UK accent. I was pretty damn impressed that the CSA were able to get Floro, although thought the Antonio thing was bush. Since day 1, I've been paradoxically frustrated that I can't understand a damn word this guy says -which makes it increasingly difficult to interpret his decisions. I will say this...

 

There's some revisionist history going on here on Voyageur proportions. Hart never played a kick and chase style. He always emphasized playing the ball on the ground and, while the attack was often impotent, we did stroke the ball around a lot better than last night. And remember, Hart got us within one result of the Hex. Then the 8-1 drubbing where we all concluded Hart lacked the leadership qualities to carry us forward  -including Stephen himself.

 

So we've gone out and hired a leader. You don't manage Real Madrid, without these qualities. At this point, I think we need to let him lead. Hart always picked the team 9 out of 10 of us would have done, which got us to 8-1 despite a few nice results along the way. Personally, I wanted someone to come in and challenge the players, challenge the CSA, and challenge the Voyageurs. This is what we have. It looks like a huge steaming pile of shit, but I think we need to give him until the close of WCQ to evaluate the job done. Fonseca or whatever other coach might be readily available will get us nowhere, probably with the same level of entertainment from the football.

[mpg_29]

I was firmly in the hiring a foreign manager camp, particularly one without a shiny UK accent. I was pretty damn impressed that the CSA were able to get Floro, although thought the Antonio thing was bush. Since day 1, I've been paradoxically frustrated that I can't understand a damn word this guy says -which makes it increasingly difficult to interpret his decisions. I will say this...

 

There's some revisionist history going on here on Voyageur proportions. Hart never played a kick and chase style. He always emphasized playing the ball on the ground and, while the attack was often impotent, we did stroke the ball around a lot better than last night. And remember, Hart got us within one result of the Hex. Then the 8-1 drubbing where we all concluded Hart lacked the leadership qualities to carry us forward  -including Stephen himself.

 

So we've gone out and hired a leader. You don't manage Real Madrid, without these qualities. At this point, I think we need to let him lead. Hart always picked the team 9 out of 10 of us would have done, which got us to 8-1 despite a few nice results along the way. Personally, I wanted someone to come in and challenge the players, challenge the CSA, and challenge the Voyageurs. This is what we have. It looks like a huge steaming pile of shit, but I think we need to give him until the close of WCQ to evaluate the job done. Fonseca or whatever other coach might be readily available will get us nowhere, probably with the same level of entertainment from the football.

 

Well that's an issue in my books in that his English is pretty poor.  And this isn't Europe where a lot of people/players might be bilingual/multilingual.  I'm trying to picture practice where he is trying to explain things in his broken english...let alone yelling at players on the field during a big game.

[Keegan]

Floro's squad selections are puzzling, yes.  But are we really aiming our fire in the right direction here?  

 

 

Facts:

 

- We've conceded ONE goal competitively so far under Floro

- In both matches we missed clear cut chances.  Did Floro miss them?  No. 

 

 

We are tough to beat.  Let's do what we can as supporters and cheer our boys on to a goal at home because I'm confident we can keep a zero with Floro at the helm.  The one goal we conceded was down to a lack of concentration/fatigue... Jamaica outnumbered us in the box on ONE cross and buried it.

 

As for the selections, I'm as puzzled as anyone.  I thought he was rotating the squad and that's why vs. ES we played such a lineup... but we play a match THREE days later in scorching temperatures and make one change while leaving players who showed a spark last match on the bench?  What's that all about... playing for the zero?

[theaub]

 

Back in October in this thread I gave my guess as to what to expect from Floro and this has been shown to be the case, so far.  It's not that much different than what Trappattoni did with the Republic of Ireland. 

 

 

But I 100% agree with your post there.  If we're going on the road to some hostile environment Central American country in WCQ there is absolutely zero wrong with bunkering, even against a team like El Salvador.  Draw on the road, win at home. 

 

At a neutral site tournament?  Not buying it.  Unless Floro truly sees Tuesday as a home game and he's going to open up the reigns but I'd be shocked if that's the case.

 

As to the topic itself, I'm not off the bandwagon because I do believe Floro has actually made these guys really organized as a unit to get those 0-0 draws in Central America.  I've just seen nothing to indicate that they can actually score a goal which is rather concerning (strong understatement eh?), but I think the answers to those questions don't truly come until November onwards.

[Blackdude]

I'm not on or off by the Floro bandwagon. He's made our team a team difficult to beat.I'm pretty sure that 8-1 won't happen now under Floro. Now, is there a creativity problem? Yes, but I don't think that Teibert and Osorio fix everything. It's possible that some of them don't like the system. I don't think that the coach is that good, but he isn't as bad as we want to say. Still, he needs a good showing against Costa Rica IMO. Now, it would be interesting to see now that Canada needs a win to advance. How will Floro manage a game now that he needs it?

[BearcatSA]

Now, is there a creativity problem? Yes, but I don't think that Teibert and Osorio fix everything.

 

Agreed, but in the land of the blind, they are the one eyed kings.  

 

As was mentioned earlier and/or elsewhere, it's funny that the coach called out MLS and yet two younger midfielders who are key contributors for their top MLS sides can't be incorporated into the starting XI, so you are left wondering if there is a back story here.

[Northvansteve]

The shocker for me is and always will be selecting Bekker ahead of Teibert and Osorio. There is absolutely no circumstance (absence injury) in which you can justify playing Bekker ahead of either of those two or even Pacheco.

 

We've seen some really good rationales on this board of Floro's decisions but that player selection is incomprehensible. Bekker is slow, has poor touch, is a giveaway machine in mid, hasn't played much this season, doesn't win 1v1 battles, can't beat anyone 1v1, has poor distribution and his set pieces are average at best.

 

How does a senior coach make this decision?

[nolbertos]

I think anybody or coach can play a bunkering style and get results. Its not hard to play a 5-4-1 formation and preach that. Holger used that same tactic and got success. Its when you need to play attacking soccer anf can ge a result and so far, Floro has shown he's afraid or doesn't trust the players to play attacking soccer against some more upbeat competition. I'm for hiring somebody even if its a UK coach, but is familiar with MLS league, and CONCACAF environment. So far in our club coaches that have that Vanney, Robbo and the Impacts coach have that experience. In an ideal world, they'd be best qualified to lead the country, but I doubt they's want the job. At this point since we're not going to churn out quality academy grads yet, it should be a mindset of getting positive results, playing attractive football and slowly getting experience playing in hostile environments in Central America. The Gold Cup is usually the best thermometer on where you stand compared to other countries and whether you can take the heat or not and so far, out chances of even getting past rhe next round of WCQ looks in jeopardy. Canada can do what Bolivia did in the 90's and choose there national team from the top academies only and build a unit from that. They became U-17 South American champions in 1986 and 8 years later qualified to a World Cup. After that we can disband the only academy route as we should have more player options by then via NASL, USL, etc

[Michael Crampton]

We are tough to beat.  

 

Jamaica only scoring once flatters Canada.

 

Canada was outshot 21 to 7.  6 shots on target to 2.

 

In terms of chances: Canada missed one clear cut chance and Piette spurned another. I can't remember Canada creating a real chance after the 30th minute, though I'm prepared to be corrected.

 

Play that game 10 times and, based on that shot ratio and chances generated, Canada probably wins twice, draws three times, and loses half the time.

 

And, for the record, I unequivocally agree with ynwa: there's no point in giving up on Floro before WCQ concludes.  I can still imagine it all working out.  We could even win on Tuesday.  I just reserve the right to think that he's not making the best of a bad situation before we get there.

[Blackdude]

I'm for hiring somebody even if its a UK coach, but is familiar with MLS league, and CONCACAF environment.

 

We did that (Frank Yallop) and he was arguably the worst manager in the past 30 years.

[BrennanFan]

There are too many unanswered questions for me to jump off the bandwagon just yet.  Only failure in WCQ would lead me to call for Floro's head.  

 

But obviously, things are not looking good.  

 

Floro's system, selections, and substitutions have all failed.   Disturbing.

[jordan]

We did that (Frank Yallop) and he was arguably the worst manager in the past 30 years.

 

Having been able to watch a yallop national team training session i would say he was terrible

[BearcatSA]

Jamaica only scoring once flatters Canada.

 

Canada was outshot 21 to 7.  6 shots on target to 2.

 

In terms of chances: Canada missed one clear cut chance and Piette spurned another. I can't remember Canada creating a real chance after the 30th minute, though I'm prepared to be corrected.

 

Play that game 10 times and, based on that shot ratio and chances generated, Canada probably wins twice, draws three times, and loses half the time.

 

And, for the record, I unequivocally agree with ynwa: there's no point in giving up on Floro before WCQ concludes.  I can still imagine it all working out.  We could even win on Tuesday.  I just reserve the right to think that he's not making the best of a bad situation before we get there.

 

Saturday's performance conjured up images for me of the ghosts of bad Gold Cups past, notably 2005 (Yallop), 2011 (Hart 2.0) , and 2013 (Miller Time).

[Ruud]

Floro's squad selections are puzzling, yes.  But are we really aiming our fire in the right direction here?  

 

 

Facts:

 

- We've conceded ONE goal competitively so far under Floro

- In both matches we missed clear cut chances.  Did Floro miss them?  No. 

 

 

We are tough to beat.  Let's do what we can as supporters and cheer our boys on to a goal at home because I'm confident we can keep a zero with Floro at the helm.  The one goal we conceded was down to a lack of concentration/fatigue... Jamaica outnumbered us in the box on ONE cross and buried it.

 

As for the selections, I'm as puzzled as anyone.  I thought he was rotating the squad and that's why vs. ES we played such a lineup... but we play a match THREE days later in scorching temperatures and make one change while leaving players who showed a spark last match on the bench?  What's that all about... playing for the zero?

 

Agreed on this. 

 

Can someone from the media get an interview and find out why two players who are starters on MLS teams are NOT starting, while two players who haven't been playing (Bekker, JDG) were?  We really need to stop the speculation.  In any other country, we would have an answer by now.  

[jordan]

If Larin didn't miss the empty net I doubt this thread even exists.

[nolbertos]

We did that (Frank Yallop) and he was arguably the worst manager in the past 30 years.

i should've elaborated. When frank yallop was coach we didn't have a single MLS club or a pyramid academy structure like now. I honestly think Yallop was far removed from the realities of Canadian Soccer and obviously thought his MLS success with decent players around the Earthquakes would equal the national team, he bombed bad. Now in 2015, we have Klopas who had a good run in CONCACAF qualifying, and got good results away and Robbo from thr Caps that will have his test by fire soon in Champions League action. He's also gotten the Caps success on an average MLS budget that dwarfs the top teams, plus he's involved in the Caps Academy and knows better than anybody on the state of futbol in this country. We should honestly at this stage poach from within as those that know the system is broken and have a decent success in the MLS team should get a chance, unless by fluke we get another German coach as qualified as Osieck to implement a national blueprint.

[Michael Crampton]

I hope the media guys do grill Floro on why guys like Osorio and Teibert don't play with Floro bitches about MLS playing time and they being two with substantial minutes.

 

It does look strange that the MLS players from Canadian MLS teams don't get started, while the ones from American teams do.  I'm sure that it's simply a coincidence.  The choices are matter of tactics, fitness, type of player, and what not.  But it does look strange.  Canada doesn't have a deep enough player pool to play politics with selections.

[Michael Crampton]

Thinking about it more this morning.

 

I get what Floro is trying.  Strategically it probably makes sense.  Canada does need to be hard to beat away in WCQ to have any hope of actually making it through the Hex.  We could possibly get through the semi round playing something a little more expansive and ambitious.  By the Hex, however, we'd always be outgunned.  Combined with our lack of strength in depth, that means we will almost certainly have to rely on players like Bekker, Straith, Piette, Hainault, etc. at some point.

 

But as a fan, after years of not scoring at this tournament, my God does it suck.  Floro didn't live through that, and suffer along with us.

 

And it won't be any easier to get folks to actually watch this team.  It's the dilemma of Canada: we need wins to get people to care, but we (probably) need to play ugly to get wins in the games that matter.  And if the result is making games ugly, yet still not getting results...