Atiba Hutchinson

[Free kick]

Yes, Mathias Sammer may have been the last of the Sweeper/Libero.  I cant think of any others after that

Edited October 3, 2022 by Free kick

[BearcatSA]

7 minutes ago, Free kick said:

Yes, I have heard that in youth soccer, some teams still employ the libero.  that's probably because you don't have enough quality ref's or linesmen or any of them at all.  And the goal keepers haven't developed the needed foot skills.  If you have a keeper who is a good shot stopper but can do nothing else, it's probably a good idea to play a Libero

If you play in a masters rec league 50/55 plus with no RAs to call the offsides, it's better to have someone in a type of sweeper role.

[WestHamCanadianinOxford]

39 minutes ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

Three-man back line leaves the middle exposed often, which is why you have wingbacks, to move up the pitch; meaning the outside backs in the back 3 do not move up so much as they don't have that role. And then you could still someone in there to be the supporting CB if the back line is stretched.

It really does when you play 343 like we have been doing.  More common, I think is 352, where the extra midfielder can help and a younger Atiba is ideal in the central 3.  You need to be smart and fast enough to cover the wings when your wingbacks really attack.  

[WestHamCanadianinOxford]

9 minutes ago, Free kick said:

Yes, Mathias Sammer many have been the last of the Sweeper/Libero.  I cant think of any others after that

Franco Baresi was about the same time I think. 

[Canuckia]

2 hours ago, Alex said:

 

Great news!!!!

[dyslexic nam]

2 hours ago, El Hombre said:

I think Atiba keeps himself in such great shape anyway that I'm hoping that the time from going from training to game shape should be relatively short.  I'm confident he'll be fit come late November.

I tend to agree - but it is hard to say without knowing the extent of his injury. But if anyone can manage it, it should be the guy who has managed to prolong his career by taking ridiculously good care of himself.  I really want it to happen - both for the team and our chances of success but also for him personally. 

[Unnamed Trialist]

4 hours ago, Free kick said:

Yes, I have heard that in youth soccer, some teams still employ the libero.  that's probably because you don't have enough quality ref's or linesmen or any of them at all.  And the goal keepers haven't developed the needed foot skills.  If you have a keeper who is a good shot stopper but can do nothing else, it's probably a good idea to play a Libero

As for the point about Kroll.  Thats probably because Lennarduzzi was the Libero.

I'd hate to think it was Lenarduzzi who forced Krol out of position, as if the former took precedent over the latter.

We just understood it--and in fact this is how the Caps explained it, I remember it clearly--that being more talented on the ball he could do more further up the field. It was logical, in principle, but he did not have to time to learn that role, and the team was in a bit of a hangover after winning NASL. So he only lasted a year, and he in fact continued at a high level in Europe.

Funny folks referring to Sammer but I don't have any clear recollection of Sammer playing.

[BearcatSA]

39 minutes ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

Funny folks referring to Sammer but I don't have any clear recollection of Sammer playing.

Really?  Stuttgart, Borussia Dortmand:  with the nats had defensive mid Deiter Eilts covering him when he went on attacking forays.  Very good player, the best the former East Germany produced.  I liked him.

[Free kick]

2 hours ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

I'd hate to think it was Lenarduzzi who forced Krol out of position, as if the former took precedent over the latter.

We just understood it--and in fact this is how the Caps explained it, I remember it clearly--that being more talented on the ball he could do more further up the field. It was logical, in principle, but he did not have to time to learn that role, and the team was in a bit of a hangover after winning NASL. So he only lasted a year, and he in fact continued at a high level in Europe.

Funny folks referring to Sammer but I don't have any clear recollection of Sammer playing.

I recall Mathias Sammer and seen him play.   Mostly at the world cup and in that Champions league final versus Juventus when he was playing for Borussia Dortmund.    His play nullified Zidane and Pirlo.  

Also, a classic libero in the mold of Beckenbauer and Passarella.  The reason I never mentioned Baresi in the same sentence as the other two is because he was different libero.  Baresi would step up a lot in MF and take control from there with distribution and decisive passing.   Whereas the other three were more libero's on steroids (figuratively not literally).  They would actually attack the opposing box and score a lot goals.  Whereas Baresi, yes, he was a libero no doubt, but when you think of Baresi most still think central defender.  Thats not the case with Beckenbaur

Edited October 3, 2022 by Free kick

[WestHamCanadianinOxford]

5 minutes ago, Free kick said:

I recall Mathias Sammer and seen him play.   Mostly at the world cup and in that Champions league final versus Juventus when he was playing for Borussia Dortmund.    He took care of Zidane

The libero performance I remember best was Baresi in the WC '94 final against Brazil. Absolutely everywhere on the pitch that day. 

[BearcatSA]

I always think of Baresi as more of a back four CB. His Milan (and NT) quartet were an all time great.

[MauditYvon]

6 hours ago, Free kick said:

Yes, Mathias Sammer may have been the last of the Sweeper/Libero.  I cant think of any others after that

Laurent Blanc

[VinceA]

So did Scianetti get it completely wrong?

[Free kick]

5 minutes ago, MauditYvon said:

Laurent Blanc

Hmmm.  Thats tough one for me.  Yes, I ahve heard of him come up in the conversation of libero.  But he was a more i deep lying mid for me.  But i could be wrong

[WestHamCanadianinOxford]

17 minutes ago, BearcatSA said:

I always think of Baresi as more of a back four CB. His Milan (and NT) quartet were an all time great.

"Kaiser Franz" named after "Der Kaiser," because he was like Beckenbauer - definitely played a lot of libero. 

[PegCityCam]

8 hours ago, Alex said:

 

Just so it's crystal clear...

 

[dyslexic nam]

At this point I would be extremely happy with 2 months of full training, sub appearances and maybe a start.  

[Unnamed Trialist]

10 hours ago, Free kick said:

Hmmm.  Thats tough one for me.  Yes, I ahve heard of him come up in the conversation of libero.  But he was a more i deep lying mid for me.  But i could be wrong

He played CB for Barça.

Talking about Baresi, a player who had those qualities as someone shorter, though not scoring, was Mascherano. Who Barça converted into a CB despite being clearly a DM. For me one of the most extraordinary positional success stories, especially as he's 5'8" and played perfectly. Then, for Argentina, he was the DM floating into the back line and often sweeping.

[BearcatSA]

5 hours ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

He played CB for Barça.

Talking about Baresi, a player who had those qualities as someone shorter, though not scoring, was Mascherano. Who Barça converted into a CB despite being clearly a DM. For me one of the most extraordinary positional success stories, especially as he's 5'8" and played perfectly. Then, for Argentina, he was the DM floating into the back line and often sweeping.

The Litttle Chief was another all time talent and a fav of mine.

 

[WestHamCanadianinOxford]

5 hours ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

Talking about Baresi, a player who had those qualities as someone shorter, though not scoring, was Mascherano. Who Barça converted into a CB despite being clearly a DM. For me one of the most extraordinary positional success stories, especially as he's 5'8" and played perfectly. Then, for Argentina, he was the DM floating into the back line and often sweeping.

Pfft.  Not good enough to displace Hayden Mullins.

 

(Very much a joke, before we get into it.)

[BearcatSA]

15 hours ago, WestHamCanadianinOxford said:

"Kaiser Franz" named after "Der Kaiser," because he was like Beckenbauer - definitely played a lot of libero. 

Baresi did play it but when I started paying attention I thought he was playing as the second central defender.  I always thought that if you are playing in a back four with zonal marking, you don't really utilize a sweeper.  I'd have to re-watch AC Milan matches from the mid 90s to see how they set up. 

[WestHamCanadianinOxford]

Just now, BearcatSA said:

Baresi did play it but when I started paying attention I thought he was playing as the second central defender.  I always thought that if you are playing in a back four with zonal marking, you don't really utilize a sweeper.  I'd have to re-watch AC Milan matches from the mid 90s to see how they set up. 

That performance against Brazil, he was playing in a central pair with Maldini but just acted like a libero, roaming and heading up the field with the ball. Just following the ball on defence.  

I have found this since; should never have taken the penalty.

 

[BearcatSA]

18 minutes ago, WestHamCanadianinOxford said:

That performance against Brazil, he was playing in a central pair with Maldini but just acted like a libero, roaming and heading up the field with the ball. Just following the ball on defence.  

I have found this since; should never have taken the penalty.

 

Thanks for that clip.  He was a terrific defender!

 

 

[rkomar]

Baresi is my favourite Italian player of all time.  It's great to see that I'm not the only one who has so much respect for him.

Oh, and he was pretty good in Italia '90, as well.

[PegCityCam]