Atiba Hutchinson

[jhoops__]

This is not good news at all.  End of October means he could maybe play 2 league games before the WC window starts.  We need to find out who can start alongside Eustaquio real quick..,

Edited September 16, 2022 by jhoops__

[johnyb]

5 hours ago, jhoops__ said:

This is not good news at all.  End of October means he could maybe play 2 league games before the WC window starts.  We need to find out who can start alongside Eustaquio real quick..,

2 Games coming up where we will test just that.

Edited September 16, 2022 by johnyb
spelling

[Corazon]

I'm excited to see what Eustaquio & Kone can do together.  Could be two of our core midfielders for the next two cycles.  Eustaquio to play the standard 6 role while Kone a more 8 box to box midfielder.  Osorio or Hoilett slongside those two might make a unique trio of midfielders.  Eustaquio loves playing alongside Kaye but his slow regression over the past year or so worries me and I think Piette is much more of a shut down player off the bench rather than a starter.

Given Holmes is ineligible for Canada, I feel the need for Smith to develop into a CB for Canada is more important but he also looks like he's got the tools to be a solid central midfielder in the future as well.

Edited September 16, 2022 by Corazon

[PegCityCam]

"Coming weeks"...😑

 

[SoCalTransport]

1 minute ago, PegCityCam said:

"Coming weeks"...😑

 

I think even if he goes to Qatar, I don’t think you can expect a lot of minutes from him.

[JAVIERF]

He will play as libero for me with vitoria

[Alex]

7 hours ago, JAVIERF said:

He will play as libero for me with vitoria

If this happens we have serious issues. 

[Floortom]

The most you can expect of him at this point is a few substitute minutes if there’s a result we’re trying to hold on to. Even then I’m not sure he would be the best option.

[SoCalTransport]

I know this is a bit off topic, and with all due respect to Atiba, he is a Canadian soccer legend, but I played with Atiba in youth soccer, and he wasn’t even close to the best player on the team. Most of the players that were better than him, were playing soccer as a secondary sport.

I think the US has this issue also, but what can we do to get more athletes to make soccer their primary sport of choice. 

[Alex]

 

[Free kick]

10 hours ago, JAVIERF said:

He will play as libero for me with vitoria

There is no libero (AKA the sweeper) in soccer anymore.  The libero role became extinct about 30-40 years ago.  

Also, you could only play with one libero.   

Edited October 3, 2022 by Free kick

[Califax]

21 minutes ago, Alex said:

 

What an amazing tweet. 

[EJsens1]

19 minutes ago, Alex said:

 

Great to see. Hopefully no setbacks and he can get a couple league games in before the break. Besides the fact we need him, the most under appreciated male Canadian athlete of the last 20 years deserves to be on the field when the national anthem is sung against Belgium 

[dyslexic nam]

If he could get back to playing even a game or two prior to Qatar, it would be huge.  You know he would be pushing hard to be as fit as possible.   And they said that Herdman was sending Canadian medical staff over to assist with his recovery and rehab.  Fingers crossed.   Would be the perfect development in his ongoing story if he could get back and be fit  for the WC.  

[Unnamed Trialist]

47 minutes ago, Free kick said:

There is no libero (AKA the sweeper) in soccer anymore.  The libero roll became extinct about 30-40 years ago.  

Also, you could only play with one libero.   

Technically, yes, though the sweeper role was usually a defender who also had passing and play development skills, as well as being a CB who covered the back of the other and other defenders. 

Now most CBs are called on to play the ball out. Then, by pushing the outside backs up high and wide, the CB pairing is often split and the DM falls into the middle in possession--and also as a support if being countered with the backs up too high. So that player is also doing the role. 

Skilled possession CBs, supporting DMs. Atiba could perfectly well be the latter. You could argue, for example, that on that Núñez goal, where the hell was the DM, Piette or Eustaquio? And why not?

[WestHamCanadianinOxford]

The centre CB in a three can be used as a kind of sweeper/libero, but your other two need to be good in the air.

Even if you are the centre tall guy in a back 3, you should be roaming a bit as there is in theory a extra man. 

For me, the Nunez goal was partially down to Vitoria.  If you watch the DMs had late runners, but Vitoria had Adekugbe (before he slipped) and Miller between him and the ball and no one near him in the box.  He should have moved to help against a good heading striker who was very much in the box. 

[Free kick]

2 hours ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

Technically, yes, though the sweeper role was usually a defender who also had passing and play development skills, as well as being a CB who covered the back of the other and other defenders. 

Now most CBs are called on to play the ball out. Then, by pushing the outside backs up high and wide, the CB pairing is often split and the DM falls into the middle in possession--and also as a support if being countered with the backs up too high. So that player is also doing the role. 

Skilled possession CBs, supporting DMs. Atiba could perfectly well be the latter. You could argue, for example, that on that Núñez goal, where the hell was the DM, Piette or Eustaquio? And why not?

True.  The libero (for those who are not aware of it) was a single player who is positioned to play right in front of the GK but behind the defensive line.

He would be required to clear any ball in the box but WOULD NOT MAN MARK.

He would be required to read and anticipate plays and react to those plays and Marshall the defensive line. 

He would take the ball from the GK and hence the GK didn't have to do any ball handling/kicking or distribution.

Most importantly, or what they are most known for, would be handling the ball and making runs into the attacking zone and even into teh opponent's box to create scoring chances.

They had to be good at dribbling the ball, making runs and reading the play.   Basically, this was a very important role and a high-profile role (eg.: Beckenbaur, Daniel Passarella. etc).  Often it was your team's best talent.  More important than a #10 or the false #9

What made them extinct is the fact that linesmen got better at calling the offside.   Whereas before, you never trusted linesmen to call the offside correctly.  Also, the GK, now does most of what the Libero used to do.  Players pass the ball back to the GK today, that use to never happen.

In 1986,  i think that Bob Lenarduzzi was our Libero

Edited October 3, 2022 by Free kick

[Unnamed Trialist]

6 minutes ago, WestHamCanadianinOxford said:

The centre CB in a three can be used as a kind of sweeper/libero, but your other two need to be good in the air.

Even if you are the centre tall guy in a back 3, you should be roaming a bit as there is in theory a extra man. 

For me, the Nunez goal was partially down to Vitoria.  If you watch the DMs had late runners, but Vitoria had Adekugbe (before he slipped) and Miller between him and the ball and no one near him in the box.  He should have moved to help against a good heading striker who was very much in the box. 

It is true that Vitoria is a more a stay-home kind of CB, which is why you are right, as many observed: he did not stay home to help Johnston. 

The argument for the kind of support we are talking about, in that sweeper role, is that Atiba would be the only one of our DMs who could in fact play CB. Then, Herdman played him there in Panama when I would have thought he'd have looked at Cornelius or Kennedy. Then Atiba has played CB in his career, covering for injuries and the like. He has the height and presence and skill. 

Then the other argument: the three-man back line leaves the middle exposed often, which is why you have wingbacks, to move up the pitch; meaning the outside backs in the back 3 do not move up so much as they don't have that role. And then you could still someone in there to be the supporting CB if the back line is stretched.

Edited October 3, 2022 by Unnamed Trialist

[Free kick]

4 minutes ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

It is true that Vitoria is a more a stay-home kind of CB, which is why you are right, as many observed: he did not stay home to help Johnston. 

The argument for the kind of support we are talking about, in that sweeper role, is that Atiba would be the only one of our DMs who could in fact play CB. Then, Herdman played him there in Panama when I would have thought he'd have looked at Cornelius or Kennedy. Then Atiba has played CB in his career, covering for injuries and the like. He has the height and presence and skill. 

Then the other argument: the three-man back line leaves the middle exposed often, which is why you have wingbacks, to move up the pitch; meaning the outside backs in the back 3 do not move up so much as they don't have that role. And then you could still someone in there to be the supporting CB if the back line is stretched.

But he couldnt be counted on to make those forays into the attacking zone.   Not today. 10 years ago maybe.

Edited October 3, 2022 by Free kick

[Unnamed Trialist]

6 minutes ago, Free kick said:

True.  The libero (for those who are not aware of it) was a single player who position to play right in front of the GK but behind the defensive line.

He would be required to clear any ball in the box but WOULD NOT MAN MARK.

He would be required to read and anticipate plays and react to those plays and Marshall the defensive line. 

He would take the ball from the GK and hence the GK didn't have to do any ball handling or distribution.

Most importantly, or what they are most known for, would be handling the ball and making runs into the attacking zone and even into teh opponent's box to create scoring chances.

They had to be good at dribbling the ball, making runs and reading the play.   Basically, this was a very important role and a high profile role (eg.: beckenbaur, Daniel Passarella. etc).  Often it was your team's best talent.  

What made them extinct is the fact that linesmen got better at calling the off side.   Whereas before,  you never trust linesmen to call the offside correctly

True that the classic sweep swept behind the back line, they cleaned up. 

When my kid played 7 a side, half pitch, where they have offside only near the opposing box, at the top of it, many coaches had a kid play libero as he was covering for the balls over the top and there was no risk of him letting attackers onside.

Now it is archaic, no question, in that way. Behind the other CB. But as a sort of skilled CB in possession with good positioning, not so much behind the other CB but alongside or moving forwards, that is how Koeman played for Barça, then Rafa Márquez, Xabi Alonso often played like that from the middle, Pochettino was a player like that, there is a bit of a tradition. 

When I watched Whitecaps in the 70s they signed a Dutch defender who was part of that great generation, Rudi Krol, but instead of having him sweep, being so skilled, they put him in the DM role and asked him to look forwards. He was a great player, but it really did not work that well for us.

[BearcatSA]

Back fours with very attack minded fullbacks are less exposed with double holding mids, like you see with a 4-2-3-1.  The "2" need to be cognizant of coverage and putting out other fires which may happen.

I felt we really missed Atiba's defensive strengths in the semi-final Gold Cup loss to Mexico, where we conceded very late with Eusatquio running around and Fraser camped on the six yard box beside Vitoria and the other too deep defenders as either of two Mexican attackers could have shot that winner from just outside the box from the cutback pass.

[El Hombre]

36 minutes ago, dyslexic nam said:

If he could get back to playing even a game or two prior to Qatar, it would be huge.  You know he would be pushing hard to be as fit as possible.   And they said that Herdman was sending Canadian medical staff over to assist with his recovery and rehab.  Fingers crossed.   Would be the perfect development in his ongoing story if he could get back and be fit  for the WC.  

I think Atiba keeps himself in such great shape anyway that I'm hoping that the time from going from training to game shape should be relatively short.  I'm confident he'll be fit come late November.

[Free kick]

26 minutes ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

True that the classic sweep swept behind the back line, they cleaned up. 

When my kid played 7 a side, half pitch, where they have offside only near the opposing box, at the top of it, many coaches had a kid play libero as he was covering for the balls over the top and there was no risk of him letting attackers onside.

Now it is archaic, no question, in that way. Behind the other CB. But as a sort of skilled CB in possession with good positioning, not so much behind the other CB but alongside or moving forwards, that is how Koeman played for Barça, then Rafa Márquez, Xabi Alonso often played like that from the middle, Pochettino was a player like that, there is a bit of a tradition. 

When I watched Whitecaps in the 70s they signed a Dutch defender who was part of that great generation, Rudi Krol, but instead of having him sweep, being so skilled, they put him in the DM role and asked him to look forwards. He was a great player, but it really did not work that well for us.

Yes, I have heard that in youth soccer, some teams still employ the libero.  that's probably because you don't have enough quality ref's or linesmen or any of them at all.  And the goal keepers haven't developed the needed foot skills.  If you have a keeper who is a good shot stopper but can do nothing else, it's probably a good idea to play a Libero

As for the point about Kroll.  Thats probably because Lennarduzzi was the Libero.

Edited October 3, 2022 by Free kick

[BearcatSA]

8 minutes ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

When I watched Whitecaps in the 70s they signed a Dutch defender who was part of that great generation, Rudi Krol, but instead of having him sweep, being so skilled, they put him in the DM role and asked him to look forwards. He was a great player, but it really did not work that well for us.

He had great long distribution for the Caps (the forerunner to Pedro Morales) but even though in his early 30s he didn't have the engine room for the way the role was played during that time and the bane of old time Astro turf didn't help for durabilty.

He started out as a fullback but to moved to sweeper in the time around WC 78, while the West German sweeper at that time, Manny Kaltz, moved to RB and thrived there at Euro 80 and WC 82.

The last guy who really stood out to me as a sweeper was Sammer at Euro 96.

[WestHamCanadianinOxford]

 

42 minutes ago, Free kick said:

True.  The libero (for those who are not aware of it) was a single player who is positioned to play right in front of the GK but behind the defensive line.

He would be required to clear any ball in the box but WOULD NOT MAN MARK.

He would be required to read and anticipate plays and react to those plays and Marshall the defensive line. 

He would take the ball from the GK and hence the GK didn't have to do any ball handling or distribution.

Most importantly, or what they are most known for, would be handling the ball and making runs into the attacking zone and even into teh opponent's box to create scoring chances.

They had to be good at dribbling the ball, making runs and reading the play.   Basically, this was a very important role and a high profile role (eg.: Beckenbaur, Daniel Passarella. etc).  Often it was your team's best talent.  More important than a #10 or the false #9

What made them extinct is the fact that linesmen got better at calling the offside.   Whereas before, you never trust linesmen to call the offside correctly.  Also, the GK, now does most of what the Libero used to do.  Player pass the ball back to the Gk today, that use to never happen.

In 1986,  i think that Bob Lenarduzzi was our Libero

I look at Sheffield United when they first came up in 19/20.  They played three at the back and their CBs were allowed to perform some of those roles.  They surprised a lot of teams that first year with attacking runs and finished well above their talent level (in my opinion of course). 

But I agree the time of a dedicated libero has passed. 

Edited October 3, 2022 by WestHamCanadianinOxford