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11 hours ago, canta15 said:

Vidal and Marchisio are box-to-box midfielders.

I know, there is usually one good one per good team. Rakitic at Barça, too, Khedira, even Yaya Toure, I have seen lots.

It is a very demanding role to play, I realize I was exagerrating, but if you look at the position, it is perhaps the most demanding in football, and many teams make do without such a player: you have a good attacking mid, a good defensive mid, and the other mids simply do their job helping on either side, without making them into this overblown box-to-box thing.

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3 hours ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

I know, there is usually one good one per good team. Rakitic at Barça, too, Khedira, even Yaya Toure, I have seen lots.

It is a very demanding role to play, I realize I was exagerrating, but if you look at the position, it is perhaps the most demanding in football, and many teams make do without such a player: you have a good attacking mid, a good defensive mid, and the other mids simply do their job helping on either side, without making them into this overblown box-to-box thing.

I think you make a good point, in that it's normally the top teams that utilize a box to box midfielder these days. The modern game is so quick that the role is often too demanding, unless you can dominate possession and force the opposition to defend from deep. I don't think Vancouver's style of run and gun counterattacks from last season is ideal for that role. That being said, I thought Froese looked very promising there last night.

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1 hour ago, C2SKI said:

I think you make a good point, in that it's normally the top teams that utilize a box to box midfielder these days. The modern game is so quick that the role is often too demanding, unless you can dominate possession and force the opposition to defend from deep. I don't think Vancouver's style of run and gun counterattacks from last season is ideal for that role. That being said, I thought Froese looked very promising there last night.

We all know that mids are the fittest players, stats say they run the most too. The player that ran the most km for Barça historically was Xavi, vs. Arsenal the other night it was Iniesta, which is incredible since no one thinks of him as a defender, and he's a veteran, oldest field player on the team.

As I see it, if Robbo wants Kianz to go help in attack, let one of the other mids cover in the back. Expecting a player to go both ways is a formula for burnout and, as I see it, means you are not interested in coaching proper positional play.

(I must admit that lately Robinson's declarations irk me, he is no great tactician, does not demand possession from his players and even discourages it--eg Ousted is very nervous about passing out, even when he has someone open--and thus does not know how to organize creative play in attack. The defense is fine, so everything depends on that. But then, if things go wrong, since he does not sign anyone really important, he has the excuse of being the youngest team or inexperienced. So it is a bit of a cop out when you need a goal. And it is not the prettiest football in MLS, though it can be fun when the counters and speed work.)

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6 hours ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

I know, there is usually one good one per good team. Rakitic at Barça, too, Khedira, even Yaya Toure, I have seen lots.

 

Let's add Hector Herrera to this list as well. He's FC Porto's number 8 and wears the captain's armband for the club and we'll have to deal with him in March.

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1 hour ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

We all know that mids are the fittest players, stats say they run the most too. The player that ran the most km for Barça historically was Xavi, vs. Arsenal the other night it was Iniesta, which is incredible since no one thinks of him as a defender, and he's a veteran, oldest field player on the team.

As I see it, if Robbo wants Kianz to go help in attack, let one of the other mids cover in the back. Expecting a player to go both ways is a formula for burnout and, as I see it, means you are not interested in coaching proper positional play.

(I must admit that lately Robinson's declarations irk me, he is no great tactician, does not demand possession from his players and even discourages it--eg Ousted is very nervous about passing out, even when he has someone open--and thus does not know how to organize creative play in attack. The defense is fine, so everything depends on that. But then, if things go wrong, since he does not sign anyone really important, he has the excuse of being the youngest team or inexperienced. So it is a bit of a cop out when you need a goal. And it is not the prettiest football in MLS, though it can be fun when the counters and speed work.)

I think Robbo is an OK tactician.  He even admitted that he's learning on the job still, so he's bound to make mistakes.  Regarding possession.  The Caps play abit of possession when it counts.  Unfortunately most of the younger players don't have possession or flair skills to play like Barcelona.  Manneh, Harvey, Froese, Parker, Aird, Tiebert, Mattocks and a few others aren't technically skilled, so he has to play with what he has, which is like a hybrid system of British composure and quick pacing and counter-attack using the front 4.  Now that we have Bolanos in the wings, should help Trchera.  Also Rivero needs a good partner, so hopefully Kudo shows us what he has.

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3 hours ago, nolbertos said:

I think Robbo is an OK tactician.  He even admitted that he's learning on the job still, so he's bound to make mistakes.  Regarding possession.  The Caps play abit of possession when it counts.  Unfortunately most of the younger players don't have possession or flair skills to play like Barcelona.  Manneh, Harvey, Froese, Parker, Aird, Tiebert, Mattocks and a few others aren't technically skilled, so he has to play with what he has, which is like a hybrid system of British composure and quick pacing and counter-attack using the front 4.  Now that we have Bolanos in the wings, should help Trchera.  Also Rivero needs a good partner, so hopefully Kudo shows us what he has.

I don't necessarily agree about Froese. Watching him and Bustos ping the ball around is a joy at times. I think they're both capable of playing quick, possession football.

I'm also not convinced Parker is even the least technical CB for the Caps.

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6 hours ago, nolbertos said:

I think Robbo is an OK tactician.  He even admitted that he's learning on the job still, so he's bound to make mistakes.  Regarding possession.  The Caps play abit of possession when it counts.  Unfortunately most of the younger players don't have possession or flair skills to play like Barcelona.  Manneh, Harvey, Froese, Parker, Aird, Tiebert, Mattocks and a few others aren't technically skilled, so he has to play with what he has, which is like a hybrid system of British composure and quick pacing and counter-attack using the front 4.  Now that we have Bolanos in the wings, should help Trchera.  Also Rivero needs a good partner, so hopefully Kudo shows us what he has.

I personally believe that at this level they are all skilled enough to play more possession, if the coach asks for it and trains for it. All of them. The technically worst player happens to be Waston, who is really lead-footed, the rest are fine. 

And I am not asking for a top level, just a good MLS level, like the Portand we could not score on in quarter finals, like Dallas, like Red Bulls, like Galaxy even. We are nowhere near Dallas for example, or New York RB. That is fine, we play another way, great. But when you need a goal and haven't a clue how to even get close to the 18 yard box because the rival absorbs your speed and steals the ball of you in the midfield, then you are screwed.

BTW, I give Robinson all this credit for signing young talent from South America, then he squeezes the ball skills out of these players and condemns them to Robbo-ball, which is a vulgar recipe for the kind of players you have put on the field.

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I was out of town for a bit this month and was wondering where Kianz is. I see links from two weeks ago suggesting he was trialing (training?) with  FC Kaiserslautern. I like the sounds of that for a whole lot of reasons, not the least of which is Bobby saying this week that the club needs to step back from pushing the homegrown players too much in favour of proven difference makers. Yep, good luck to the kid; I like him, and think it's a good time to take a break from the club, as it seems like it is for Sam as well.

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26 minutes ago, nolando said:

I was out of town for a bit this month and was wondering where Kianz is. I see links from two weeks ago suggesting he was trialing (training?) with  FC Kaiserslautern. I like the sounds of that for a whole lot of reasons, not the least of which is Bobby saying this week that the club needs to step back from pushing the homegrown players too much in favour of proven difference makers. Yep, good luck to the kid; I like him, and think it's a good time to take a break from the club, as it seems like it is for Sam as well.

Le sigh. The "proven difference makers" have really led the Whitecaps to the glory land, so they should continue to pursue them.

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Yea that "proven difference makers" line is a bit of a mystery to me as well. Ousted!!! There we are, I knew it would come to me. Other than that? I'm struggling to think of any players who consistently made a positive difference. Laba and Waston last year sure but both have been off their games a lot this year.

Maybe he means they are getting Gersh back?

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My thoughts exactly. Plus, if Vancouver giving 860 minutes to Teibert, Froese, Adekugbe, Davies and Bustos (which is a mere 3.34% of the available minutes in MLS this year) is "pushing the homegrown players", I shudder to think how little time they will see when the Whitecaps step back from using them...

Always seems to be one step forward, one step back with the Whitecaps. I guess we will see what they do to close out the season.

Edited by shermanator

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10 hours ago, Macksam said:

I get really anxious now every time I see a thread of a Cap or Impact HG getting bumped after a while of inactivity. Thankfully he's not getting cut...yet that is lol

Funny. I have the exact same reaction, but for a completely opposing reason. I get anxious because it seems like every single thread there is one comment containing pertinent information about that player, followed by a torrent of biased, irrelevant comments bashing the organization. It shocks me that people can still amused by finding new ways to repeat themselves.

From what I gather, the 'Caps must be confident in a loan for Kianz. I don't see how they'll meet roster regulations without one. I think he's to be loaned to FC Kaiserslautern for the remainder of the MLS season at the very least, but it's unclear whether he'll play with the first team or the U-23 team. I suppose that will be a good indication of how they rate him.

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3 hours ago, C2SKI said:

Funny. I have the exact same reaction, but for a completely opposing reason. I get anxious because it seems like every single thread there is one comment containing pertinent information about that player, followed by a torrent of biased, irrelevant comments bashing the organization. It shocks me that people can still amused by finding new ways to repeat themselves.

From what I gather, the 'Caps must be confident in a loan for Kianz. I don't see how they'll meet roster regulations without one. I think he's to be loaned to FC Kaiserslautern for the remainder of the MLS season at the very least, but it's unclear whether he'll play with the first team or the U-23 team. I suppose that will be a good indication of how they rate him.

It would have to be the U23 team no? If the Caps or FCK thought he was able to contribute now to a 2.B team wouldn't he stay with the Caps?

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On 8/24/2016 at 0:08 AM, shermanator said:

My thoughts exactly. Plus, if Vancouver giving 860 minutes to Teibert, Froese, Adekugbe, Davies and Bustos (which is a mere 3.34% of the available minutes in MLS this year) is "pushing the homegrown players", I shudder to think how little time they will see when the Whitecaps step back from using them...

Always seems to be one step forward, one step back with the Whitecaps. I guess we will see what they do to close out the season.

Yeah, and for the record, HG players have had nothing to do with VWFC sucking this year.

Wanna talk about "relying on proven difference makers"... would the Duzz perhaps be referring to Octavio Rivero? At least it didn't take them a year and a half to ship Mustafa Jarju. Epic flop. Or perhaps captain Pedro? I'm pretty sure when your 2Mil a year DP registers 7 (non-PK) points, it's gonna be ****** season. Or maybe that Laba guy who got himself a fresh new deal, only to show up late to camp with his head somewhere else and proceed to suck for half the year. (although admittedly some of that was not having Gersh's athleticism their to back him up)...

I could keep going, but basically those "proven difference makers" collectively **** the bed this year. 

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11 hours ago, shermanator said:

And according to this article, he's being considered for the first team. I don't know if this is a tabloid article, or a good source.

http://www.liga-zwei.de/fortuna-duesseldorf-kianz-froese-spielt-vor/

It is a good source. It quotes from this Rheinisch Post article which is the main non-tabloid newspaper in Dusseldorf. The coach of the U23 team says he and another trialist both played quite well. It says though that they need to offload a current squad player before they could sign a new one. 

http://www.rp-online.de/sport/fussball/fortuna/fortuna-duesseldorf-u23-praesentiert-sich-in-guter-fruehform-aid-1.6543728

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