TFC Roster Thread for 2014 Season

[narduch]

Henry has improved. I actually think he is still better than all other options at CB (other than Caldwell).

 

But he is still prone to the odd rash challenge or brain fart.

 

A lot of players on this team make similar bad plays but they either get a pass from the fan base or because of where they are on the pitch it doesn't always lead to goals.

 

Henry is the official team scapegoat, imo.

 

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Also part of the issue is the team's style of play. When you are bunkering and continually being pressured eventually mistakes will be made that lead to goals. Henry unfortuneately has been involved in a lot of the goals against and therefore gets picked on. But I still contend there are a number of players on this team that get a free pass (like Bradley).

[Keegan]

Question for people who get to see this team live, has Henry really become the terrible player that the TFC fans makes him out to be?  I keep reading nothing but bad things about him online.  I no longer living in TO so I don't get to see much of him but is he really that bad now?  It was only a few months ago he was sparking interest from West Ham.

 

No, but guys like Kurt Larson control the way that those who can't think for themselves see the players.  When I think Kurt Larson I think of some giddy fan boy just following Bradley around at every turn and eating his every word while dismissing every Canadian for any mistake.  Also, those who don't know the game see a mistake and think that it's the end of the world and exaggerate it because Henry is the easy target, a young Canadian center back. It's Henry's fault not the guys getting paid DP money who didn't perform on the day, because Larson doesn't have the balls to call out his man crush Bradley.

 

Yes, he's made some mistakes.  I was sat behind the goal when he gave the ball away needlessly and NE scored and when he gave away the penalty.  But aside from those two mistakes can you recall others?  Because on another day the NE player doesn't have such a great strike or Julio Cesar earns his salary and no one remembers that errant pass.  And on another day the ball doesn't hit Doneil's trailing arm. 

 

But where's the credit when he scores a crucial away goal inVancouver? Or take a look at his numbers away to Seattle in the opener...

[Greatest Cockney Rip Off]

Cool, good to hear things are not as bad as I read.  I like Henry and hope he continues to improve.  Also, hoping to get to a few matches when I am around in the summer.  

 

There does seem to be a stronger anti-Canadian vibe going on with some supporters again.  Reminds me of when Winter was in charge.

[narduch]

Yes, he's made some mistakes.  I was sat behind the goal when he gave the ball away needlessly and NE scored and when he gave away the penalty.  But aside from those two mistakes can you recall others?  Because on another day the NE player doesn't have such a great strike or Julio Cesar earns his salary and no one remembers that errant pass.  And on another day the ball doesn't hit Doneil's trailing arm.

 

On the penalty, Morrow made a truly awful clearance that led to Henry needing to make an attempt to stop the attack. Yet it was hard to find any criticism of Morrow, who is one of the new acquisitons with 'MLS experience' that gets a free pass.

 

Henry is actually one of the best defenders in the league in terms of making interceptions. He is also good at defending crosses/corners/set pieces, etc (better than Orr or Hagglund at that).

[madmonte]

A lot of fans in Toronto burn Phaneuf to the ground too.  Well...Phaneuf CAN be a bonehead, but heck, there was a small yet vocal minority that even turned on Mats Sundin in Toronto instead favoring players like Domi.  

 

Toronto is kind of a pretty good sports city...and in this day and age that means players, and every play they make, can get overanalyzed in a hurry.  For me, Henry has a huge upside, and still can't even drink in the USA for some time yet.  He's been around so long already, people tend to forget he's still just barely an adult.

[Keegan]

On the penalty, Morrow made a truly awful clearance that led to Henry needing to make an attempt to stop the attack. Yet it was hard to find any criticism of Morrow, who is one of the new acquisitons with 'MLS experience' that gets a free pass.

 

Henry is actually one of the best defenders in the league in terms of making interceptions. He is also good at defending crosses/corners/set pieces, etc (better than Orr or Hagglund at that).

 

Of course you're not going to find criticism of Morrow.  All he had to do was touch the ball once and Kurt Larson was calling him a huge improvement on Ashtone Morgan like he were Ashley Cole.  If he were to criticize Morrow the only alternative would be a Canadian, clearly not Kurt's cup of tea. 

[Dub Narcotic]

Eh, as a Vancouver fan primarily I was confident that Henry was going to make some bone-headed mistake to let the 'caps back in the game. He can be physically dominant one-on-one but he makes a ludicrous amount of dumb challenges, handball errors and giveaways, and he hasn't really improved that part of his game. Technically he's better than he used to be but can not be called good yet. He is young but he's physically mature and has played a lot of games at senior level, I think Nelsen's patience with his constant mistakes must be waning. Hagglund has looked very promising and Orr has been solid back there too, he's not competing against Ryan Richter and Agbossaboumonde any more. He will still get better but TFC can't invest an infinite number of games in him to allow him to find consistency and cut down the fatal errors.

 

The future of Ashtone Morgan must also be in question. Nelsen doesn't seem to rate him much (he got subbed by a right back for defensive purposes!) and his touch looks very poor right now, while his speed is not elite in MLS and he's not that solid a defender. If Nelsen stays I could see him leaving. 

[Blackdude]

Of course you're not going to find criticism of Morrow. All he had to do was touch the ball once and Kurt Larson was calling him a huge improvement on Ashtone Morgan like he were Ashley Cole. If he were to criticize Morrow the only alternative would be a Canadian, clearly not Kurt's cup of tea.

Duane Rollins said that Morrow is the MVP of the team if you exclude Bradley. He's a great MLS left back and made one bad mistake that ended in the back of the net. If Rollins a Canadian fan and not a 'merican says that, and uses stats to back it off, you wouldn't say the same thing.

[Grizzly]

Duane Rollins said that Morrow is the MVP of the team if you exclude Bradley. He's a great MLS left back and made one bad mistake that ended in the back of the net. If Rollins a Canadian fan and not a 'merican says that, and uses stats to back it off, you wouldn't say the same thing.

 

LOL. I think everyone on this site agrees that if Rollins says it, it must be true! 

[Gian-Luca]

I doubt there was a lot of interest in Jackson from Montreal given that he hasn't played well this season and is twice the salary cap hit of Issey. Also according to the Impact article, they did want to sign Issey during the offseason but TFC held his MLS rights.

 

http://www.impactmontreal.com/en/news/2014/05/impact-acquires-canadian-international-issey-nakajima-farran-toronto-fc

Having watched the Nelsen interview on TFC's website, he claims that Issey wouldn't likely be starting with a full TFC  line-up available whereas Warner will be. So presumably this means that they will be playing Warner out of position or benching Michael Bradley. Failing that, benching Osorio & making Warner the go-to offensive central midfielder. All three options do not make any sense to me.

[Grizzly]

Having watched the Nelsen interview on TFC's website, he claims that Issey wouldn't likely be starting with a full TFC  line-up available whereas Warner will be. So presumably this means that they will be playing Warner out of position or benching Michael Bradley. Failing that, benching Osorio & making Warner the go-to offensive central midfielder. All three options do not make any sense to me.

 

Warner would be playing beside Bradley at defensive mid not replacing him. Bekker is likely the guy to get benched for Warner. Bekker moves the ball a bit better but Warner is a lot more solid defensively.

[Ivan]

I think Warner was brought in as a replacement/sub for Bradley.  When he returns from the WC, Bradley will start with one of Osorio or Bekker.  As long as they produce, one or both of the young Canucks will play.

 

As for Henry, there is no question he is better.  I think he has a reputation as being overly physical and the refs watch him closely.  Didn't think that was a penalty vs. the Caps.  Hurtado sold that very well.  Unfortunate part of the game, I know, but still an obvious dive and Henry has to learn not to put himself in those positions. 

[BearcatSA]

As for Henry, there is no question he is better.  I think he has a reputation as being overly physical and the refs watch him closely.  Didn't think that was a penalty vs. the Caps.  Hurtado sold that very well.  Unfortunate part of the game, I know, but still an obvious dive and Henry has to learn not to put himself in those positions. 

 

Normally, I agree with you on many things here but I thought that was a penalty.  Henry takes chances in the box looking for the "big stop," for want of a better term, and needs to realize that he has the athleticism/quickness to shepherd even a pacy opponent to a position of lesser advantage.  He dives in too much and is simply asking for trouble in that area of the pitch.

[rob.notenboom]

Normally, I agree with you on many things here but I thought that was a penalty.  Henry takes chances in the box looking for the "big stop," for want of a better term, and needs to realize that he has the athleticism/quickness to shepherd even a pacy opponent to a position of lesser advantage.  He dives in too much and is simply asking for trouble in that area of the pitch.

Gotta agree with that too … and trust me … I want Henry to do well so if anything my view is biased in his favour. Would love to see him shutting down opponents in MLS or across the pond for years to come, but esp with the Nats. But to me that looked like a clear foul live and after many subsequent replays. And as it has been explored above, it was an unnecessary attempt at the clearance … rash and uncalled for. He had to go through Hurtado to get it and would have been much better served to concede possession (Hurtado's first touch isn't that great anyway and there is a good chance he'd have spilled it), usher him to the end line and shut down any chance of a dangerous pass.

[Gian-Luca]

Warner would be playing beside Bradley at defensive mid not replacing him. Bekker is likely the guy to get benched for Warner. Bekker moves the ball a bit better but Warner is a lot more solid defensively.

Bekker isn't a regular starter though either when all of the team is healthy & available (the criteria that Nelsen used). It is Jackson-Bradley-Osorio-Rey. One of those four would have to make room for Warner as a starter going by Nelsen's comments in attempting to justify the trade.

 

Of course, I don't actually believe Nelsen. His comments in response to Molinaro in the media scrum in question seemed a mite defensive to me. For those that haven't seen it, when asked why they traded Issey so quickly after pursuing him for so long & even though he had played well, Nelsen responded with a comment that they had been pursuing Warner even longer. Which if true, only makes the trade look worse.

[AvroArrow]

I get that trades are the norm in North American sports and, unless they have a no trade clause, players should have this possibility in the back of their minds.  However, this trade just makes TFC look like a dysfunctional organization (a reputation that they've had for a number of years).  Why?

 

1.  I can't think of another team in any other professional sport that signs a player as a free agent and then trades them away a short while later.  TFC has done this at least twice in the past two seasons (Urruti and now Issey).

 

2.  I can't think of another team in any other professional sport that has a player win a game for the team in a high pressure "walk off" fashion and then trades him away before the team even plays its next game.

 

3.  One of the main reasons given for this trade was that TFC needs coverage for Bradley during the World Cup.  Did management just realize last week that the World Cup was just around the corner?  Is this not something that should have been taken care of in the offseason?  Was Hall (ineffective) or Bekker/Osorio (more offensive minded then defensive) expected to play the role of a defensive midfielder?  This isn't as bad as when TFC showed up on opening day with an incomplete roster, but glaring holes need to be taken care of before the season starts, not one week before hand.

 

You know who runs their team this way? My friends with their fantasy sports teams.  You know who doesn't run their team this way?  A professional sports club.

[Keegan]

What did Lovitz do to make Issey expendable? What I saw was an average looking player in his minutes against Vancouver, similar to a Richter, Hall, Bloom, Warner etc. but that's what gets the fans in the seats right?  Sub-par American players.

 

And Hagglund starts today over Henry.  But no one calls out Hagglund when he was embarrassed by Manneh time and time again on Wednesday.  Makes sense. 

 

Is replacing Bloom not a priority?

 

Before the season started everyone picked out two parts of the pitch we needed help.. left wing and right back!  We just traded one of our only wingers (seriously where is the depth now?) who we coveted for months for a dime dozen defensive midfielder and not a right back!! Come on.  Bloom has been our weakest link since the beginning of the year but no one seems to notice/care or wonder what it might mean to the team to shore up that position. 

[jonovision]

I don't get guys like Larson who were praising Hagglund in Wednesday's game. He showed an ability to win headers, but not much else. As Keegan points out, he was made to look pretty average by Manneh, who himself did not have a good game at all.

[madmonte]

I also agree with Keegan on his points.

[shermanator]

I thought Lovitz looked pretty poor in his minutes against NYRB. Terrible decisions with the ball once he got forward

[BearcatSA]

Gotta agree with that too … and trust me … I want Henry to do well so if anything my view is biased in his favour. Would love to see him shutting down opponents in MLS or across the pond for years to come, but esp with the Nats. But to me that looked like a clear foul live and after many subsequent replays. And as it has been explored above, it was an unnecessary attempt at the clearance … rash and uncalled for. He had to go through Hurtado to get it and would have been much better served to concede possession (Hurtado's first touch isn't that great anyway and there is a good chance he'd have spilled it), usher him to the end line and shut down any chance of a dangerous pass.

 

^This.  If you look back at the NE game, not long after his giveaway for the first NE goal, he dove in on Nguyen (I think, maybe Fagundez?) in the box, got skinned but had contact been made he probably would have had the NE guy sell the foul and a penalty called in the process.  He just seems to press and feel he has to make a "big play" (American pointy ball term) to make up for a previous error.  That's not the way to go about things.  He just needs to trust his (excellent) athletic abilities and rely on positioning to eliminate space and angle.  Hate to be Dan Dunleavy here and use a hockey analogy, but he has to be less younger Dion Phaneuf (big play highlight reel hit attempt taking himself out of position) and more Serge Savard in his defensive acumen.  Once he "gets" that on a consistent basis, he'll be off to the races, regardless of his passing skills that others here have pointed out.

 

Rare observance:  apart from one pass I was disappointed with Osorio's overall contributions today.  Looked like a guy who felt he should be starting in the middle of the park.  

 

No camera shots on DeRo today.  I wonder what he's thinking and how much longer he's going to stay the "company man."  This is the first time in his career (minus injury issues) where he's been a clear bench guy (though I definitely am open to being corrected on this point).  I think his situation is going to have, as they say in the news business, some "legs" pretty quickly.

[Blackdude]

No camera shots on DeRo today.  I wonder what he's thinking and how much longer he's going to stay the "company man."  This is the first time in his career (minus injury issues) where he's been a clear bench guy (though I definitely am open to being corrected on this point).  I think his situation is going to have, as they say in the news business, some "legs" pretty quickly.

 

I'm sure that when TFC brought back DeRo, they told him what the plan was. They told him that they'll be bringing two DP strikers and that Dike is part of their plans. I don't think that DeRo would be frustrated for that reason. I highly doubt that TFC was stupid enough to not tell DeRo that their plan was for him to be a substitute. On the other hand, if TFC starts losing and their attacking players stop producing, then it might become a problem.  He could have said no thanks TFC, I don't want to be a role player and be the fourth attacking option. He signed because he knew that it might be his last shot in MLS with the poor season he had last year.

 

Oh and DeRo was a bench player for San José when they won their 2 MLS Cups in '01 and '03. 

[BearcatSA]

Oh and DeRo was a bench player for San José when they won their 2 MLS Cups in '01 and '03. 

 

13 and 11 years ago, with a guy still trying to prove himself as a starter.  A little different scenario there.

 

He might have been told one thing here but at the same time he might be hearing (and, more importantly, seeing and thinking) another.  And frankly, he should be aspiring to be "the man" again.  I have no issue with that.  Any professional worth his salt is going to see himself as a starter as opposed to a bench guy.  That's the way it should be:  a player competing for a starting XI place.  I have just never seen this guy as a player who'd accept a lesser role (unless injury influenced).  I'll definitely be impressed with his character should he go through his time here in acceptance of his place in the pecking order without a public peep.

[RS]

Never mind. 

 

[Michael Crampton]

No camera shots on DeRo today.  I wonder what he's thinking and how much longer he's going to stay the "company man." 

 

Honestly, based on his Twitter feed, I'm getting the impression that he's here as much as a PR exercise, for both parties, with the specific intention of rebuilding his reputation in the city before retirement.  He's got very little incentive to revive the nasty feelings unleashed during the long winter of his discontent in 2010-11.

 

He got cut by the worst team in the league last year, he's not going to get a deal anywhere else.  Professionally, that would probably have been it if there wasn't unfinished business in Toronto that made it useful for both parties to have him around.

 

My bigger concern is that they "Dichio" him in the summer if budget space is needed for a new signing.  Unless he initiates it, THAT would by ugly.