The Importance of Jr. Hoilett

[Joe MacCarthy]

The problem is that Shamrock is telling people to get over it and support that decision. 1) That's a pretty lame thing to do on a Canadian soccer messageboard. 2) Be rational is what is he saying. Be rational? WTF? None of us would be here, including himself! If we were all rational, there'd be no international soccer in the first place. His posts make no sense.

Praise Allah!

[RamR]

Is it that hard to come up with arguments instead of insults? And not an original one either...

I'm not promoting anything. I hope the Mens team will win the Cup someday, but that's not realistic now is it? I just tried to explain why players make these choices and will be making these choices in the future.

You don't like it, but that's irrelevant.

All the arguments in response to your posts (including the post your partially quote) and this is the single thought you reply to? How about replying to all the counters to your notion that these types of choices made by some players are totally acceptable?

[shamrock]

I think it's shocking how some people react to a different opinion. I just don't blame any players for a hard choice they have to make. That's all. And I've never heard unrest in Spain because Messi wants to rep his birth country instead of the one that gave him like everything. And that's Messi! So it must be something about Canadian soccer...

I will restrain from posting here anymore, since it doesn't add anything anymore. But is is strange that I'm considered a troll (don't even know what that is) just because I think differently about something. Fortunately I see some more thought-through posts above.

[narduch]

I think it's shocking how some people react to a different opinion. I just don't blame any players for a hard choice they have to make. That's all. And I've never heard unrest in Spain because Messi wants to rep his birth country instead of the one that gave him like everything. And that's Messi! So it must be something about Canadian soccer...

LOL. This example makes absolutely no sense at all. Totally irrelevant to the topic.

[madmonte]

I think it's shocking how some people react to a different opinion. I just don't blame any players for a hard choice they have to make. That's all. And I've never heard unrest in Spain because Messi wants to rep his birth country instead of the one that gave him like everything. And that's Messi! So it must be something about Canadian soccer...

I will restrain from posting here anymore, since it doesn't add anything anymore. But is is strange that I'm considered a troll (don't even know what that is) just because I think differently about something. Fortunately I see some more thought-through posts above.

For the record, I never once considered you a troll about it. If you stick around the Voyageurs board, yes, you WILL see unbridled passion about soccer, particularly Canadian soccer, with definite nationalism and Canadian pride, but you will also see intelligent arguments. When I first joined this board, I posted on it like it was a regular board, with a couple sarcastic, snide comments, and I was QUICKLY put down. You didn't do that, but it is difficult to defend, on a Canadian board, guys like JDG2 because there is a lot of hurt feelings and passion involving that topic, and it's pretty unanimous. They don't call us Canadian soccer supporters for nothing!

Some here even defended your view with rational thinking, and most of us were trying to go against your view with rational thinking (despite the occasional outburst, but around here there is always lots of passion, and that's what I love about this board. Don't worry if people toss the word "troll" around, most don't even really know what it means! I appreciate your view of soccer and nationalism, but I will argue to the teeth against it because it's contrary to what I believe on the topic. That doesn't mean I (we) don't respect your right to your opinion.

As for Messi...Argentina vs Spain, I see what you are getting at here. But he is Argentinian by birth, he grew up there, he is attached to the place. It's his roots. That's important. But throwing "everything Spain has done for him" into the argument might actually, unlike Narduch says, be the most rational thing about your post. Some, in arguing international football, say "well this country now feels like home". It makes sense for players that moved to another country at an early age, as Messi did, and learned their craft there, and have been living there more than half their life.

While I still prefer the "where are your roots" argument for picking a national side, an argument CAN be made for players in this regard. In fact, as I was saying before, Canada allows that, calling it naturalization, and many of the people you see on these boards condemning Hoilett and JDG2 are in fact ready to welcome guys like Koffie with open arms. I as well, can be hypocritical...I follow FC Edmonton and see Mallan Roberts as a guy with great potential, but in fact, his "roots" are from Sierra Leone I believe.

Yeah, we want everything and all the players in Canada let's be honest. But hey, what did you expect when you walked into a "canadian soccer supporters" board?

[Marc]

I think it's shocking how some people react to a different opinion. I just don't blame any players for a hard choice they have to make. That's all. And I've never heard unrest in Spain because Messi wants to rep his birth country instead of the one that gave him like everything. And that's Messi! So it must be something about Canadian soccer...

I will restrain from posting here anymore, since it doesn't add anything anymore. But is is strange that I'm considered a troll (don't even know what that is) just because I think differently about something. Fortunately I see some more thought-through posts above.

If people label you a troll it's not down to you having a different opinion than them.

It is because you:

- present an old, worn and well-known fact that everyone understands already as if it is something "new" (not your fault if you're new to the board)

- restate it over and over without thinking through the implications of what you post (e.g. "all we have to do to attract the best players is do better on the field" without recognizing the link between results and having your best players on the field)

- often straying into the illogical (your Messi point is an example of someone forgoing the most rational decision, so it is the opposite of what you're trying to say)

- fail to respond to valid criticism from other posters

- press your opinion on others in disrespectful ways (calling others "childish" or insisting that they "live in a bubble")

- imply that posters that don't agree with you haven't thought anything through (which is ironic because your posts are not well thought-through, as even posters who respect your opinion have noted)

- and then bow out without addressing anything anyone has said whilst acting all shocked.

I'm not posting this to be an ass. Sometimes new posters here get a cold reception when they fail to appreciate the collective knowledge, norms or culture that exists in the Canadian soccer community. When that happens it is unfortunate and unwarranted and unfair.

But sometimes new posters get the frosty treatment because they're acting like jerks. This is one of those times. Don't be discouraged from participating further, but don't kid yourself that the stick you're getting is for thinking differently. If you walked into any group and acted like this you'd get the cold shoulder too.

Edited May 8, 2013 by Marc

[Wingback6]

Apparently Everton and Stoke may also be interested. Not sure about Everton, but Stoke seems possible since they are due to ditch Pennant whose contract is up in the summer, and they are otherwise hurting for wide men.

[Soju]

[Obinna]

Apparently Everton and Stoke may also be interested. Not sure about Everton, but Stoke seems possible since they are due to ditch Pennant whose contract is up in the summer, and they are otherwise hurting for wide men.

Stoke wanted him this time last year too did they not?

[Guest Brethers]

Well Moyes is going to United so Everton's interest in Hoilett may drop. West Brom were also interested in taking Hoilett and giving QPR Odemwingie but QPR refused, so they may be a player

[Greatest Cockney Rip Off]

I wouldn't mind seeing him reunited with Big Sam at West Ham.

[alberta white]

Well Moyes is going to United so Everton's interest in Hoilett may drop. West Brom were also interested in taking Hoilett and giving QPR Odemwingie but QPR refused, so they may be a player

After his performance in January, who'd want Odemwingie?

surely he's got about a years worth of humble pie to to eat before he'll get a decent move.

Ironic as he drove all the way to QPR

[Nieuwland]

Keep living in the nationalistic bubble.

Hey Shamrock, welcome to CANSOC Nerdom. I feel your pain...that is if you take insult to the latter replies. Just consider this your initiation. I got mine when I started a thread on JDGII about two months ago thinking no body had heard of him: it got 4000 views and about reaming 70 replies. hahaha!

[Guest Brethers]

After his performance in January, who'd want Odemwingie?

surely he's got about a years worth of humble pie to to eat before he'll get a decent move.

Ironic as he drove all the way to QPR

Oh I don't think anyone would want Odemwingie, I ust think West Brom may be a team sniffing around Hoilett. That hwole situation was ridiculous!

[Joe MacCarthy]

Sometimes new posters here get a cold reception when they fail to appreciate the collective knowledge, norms or culture that exists in the Canadian soccer community. When that happens it is unfortunate and unwarranted and unfair.

But sometimes new posters get the frosty treatment because they're acting like jerks. This is one of those times. Don't be discouraged from participating further, but don't kid yourself that the stick you're getting is for thinking differently. If you walked into any group and acted like this you'd get the cold shoulder too.

Amen

[zeelaw]

Hey Shamrock, welcome to CANSOC Nerdom. I feel your pain...that is if you take insult to the latter replies. Just consider this your initiation. I got mine when I started a thread on JDGII about two months ago thinking no body had heard of him: it got 4000 views and about reaming 70 replies. hahaha!

Great post

[Tuscan]

So are there any new contract talks for Junior lately? What if TFC bought him after he trained with them at Downsview? Would they even dare to touch that with the feelings of their supporters?

[rob.notenboom]

So are there any new contract talks for Junior lately? What if TFC bought him after he trained with them at Downsview? Would they even dare to touch that with the feelings of their supporters?

Considering his season, maybe the Championship is the place for him ... not like he looked that good this season but he also didn't get much playing time. To reference the title of the thread, perhaps his importance in the potential Canadian set up is waining. Not saying that he's dried up, but the shine is off a bit compared to this time last year.

[Marc]

New contract talks for Hoillett? Maybe I'm mistaken, but isn't he one year into a four year 50 000 ukp per week contract?

[gator]

New contract talks for Hoillett? Maybe I'm mistaken, but isn't he one year into a four year 50 000 ukp per week contract?

You are correct and because of this contract and his poor performance last season QPR will have a very hard time moving him! As Jeff mentions he would be potentially a public relations nightmare for TFC as shown last week when he trained with them for one day! At this point QPR are just hoping he can play somewhere near the potential he showed at Blackburn but a good number of the fanbase have given up on him and want him out!

[Keegan]

England is clearly off the table for Hoilett but why is Jamaica on the table?

Janeill played for our u17s and u20s... if Mr. Hoilett wanted Junior to play for Jamaica why not Janeill too? Does he not care about him and only his "golden child"? So Janeill can play for us but Junior will be a gift to the "home land"? What a pathetic excuse for a father. This is one point that has stuck out to me as yet another MAJOR character flaw of Mr. Hoilett and Junior.

[Addona]

England is clearly off the table for Hoilett but why is Jamaica on the table?

Janeill played for our u17s and u20s... if Mr. Hoilett wanted Junior to play for Jamaica why not Janeill too? Does he not care about him and only his "golden child"? So Janeill can play for us but Junior will be a gift to the "home land"? What a pathetic excuse for a father. This is one point that has stuck out to me as yet another MAJOR character flaw of Mr. Hoilett and Junior.

I've certainly wondered about the Janeill issue too ... is does seem very strange. Two possibilities:

1. Maybe it's more Junior than we think when it comes to deciding allegiance to Jamaica/England/Canada. Perhaps dad is not the major driving force behind his stalling? Not sure how likely this is.

2. Maybe dad realized from early on that Janeill was never going to play a substantial role on any national team?

Yeah, I don't know ... it's odd and quite frustrating!

[alberta white]

New contract talks for Hoillett? Maybe I'm mistaken, but isn't he one year into a four year 50 000 ukp per week contract?

This been but one of many overly large contracts QPR have to try and shed. Depends if Championship Weighting was placed on the contract. I got the impression listening to the Monday night club that this was not the case.

[RS]

If Jamaica is still on the table for Junior, then he'd better get on that quickly. The way things are going in the Hex, Jamaica will have even less to play for over the next two years than Canada will.

[lazlo_80]

If Jamaica is still on the table for Junior, then he'd better get on that quickly. The way things are going in the Hex, Jamaica will have even less to play for over the next two years than Canada will.

Agreed. They called up a college kid for their game against the US. Maybe I'm not paying close enough attention to them, but what is the attraction to playing for Jamaica over Canada? Do they have a bright future that I'm missing?