The Importance of Jr. Hoilett

[gator]

Two Canadians playing for Swansea? Not 100% sure if Hoilett is Canadian, but by god, who is this 2nd Canadian you refer to? There are no Canadians on Swansea right now. Period.

You know who I am referring to I'm sure but yes, if they don't represent our country they're dead to me!

[madmonte]

You know who I am referring to I'm sure but yes, if they don't represent our country they're dead to me!

lol I hear ya there!

[Grizzly]

The latest rumours have Hoilett going to Swansea, that will be great to see 2 Canadians playing for them won't it? Here's what some QPR fans think about it:

http://www.wearetherangersboys.com/forum/showthread.php?162030-Hoillet-to-Swansea

Wow! The general consensus seems to be: Fat and lazy and get the hell out! LOL

My personal favourite is: he's quite the talent. He can eat two buckets from KFC in one sitting. Not since Matt Le Tissier have we seen skills like that!

Edited May 5, 2013 by Grizzly

[shamrock]

You know who I am referring to I'm sure but yes, if they don't represent our country they're dead to me!

So childish.

Look at it this way: you can be pro for what, 10-15 years? In that period of time there's realistically maybe 2 World Cups to attend (the player has to be in form). So realistically, you honestly think he should have taken his chances with the Canadian National team? That would have effectively killed his dream of ever playing for the World Cup.

It's easy to judge if you're not in the position to choose.

[RamR]

So childish.

Look at it this way: you can be pro for what, 10-15 years? In that period of time there's realistically maybe 2 World Cups to attend (the player has to be in form). So realistically, you honestly think he should have taken his chances with the Canadian National team? That would have effectively killed his dream of ever playing for the World Cup.

It's easy to judge if you're not in the position to choose.

Absolute BS and not even rationale worthy of the likes of those being referred to. I could ALMOST buy the "there are only so many years to earn a top pro contract and playing for a top country showcases your talent" argument... ALMOST but not quite. The "I have an individualistic dream of playing in the WC and will do so whichever way possible" argument, NEVER!! "Professionals" should never have the dream of making the World Cup as an individual, rather their dream should be (and most often is) to help take the country with which they hold the strongest allegiance to the World Cup as a team. It's not about taking your chances with one country or another... It's about taking YOUR country!!

Edited May 6, 2013 by RamR

[gator]

So childish.

Look at it this way: you can be pro for what, 10-15 years? In that period of time there's realistically maybe 2 World Cups to attend (the player has to be in form). So realistically, you honestly think he should have taken his chances with the Canadian National team? That would have effectively killed his dream of ever playing for the World Cup.

It's easy to judge if you're not in the position to choose.

This is a CANADIAN Supporters board and I think you will find the vast majority on here are only concerned with Canadians who play for our country not for the traitors who represent other countries! Hoilett may have a better chance of playing in the World Cup for England if in fact he became eligible for that country but right now his form is so poor he wouldn't get near their squad!

[madmonte]

So childish.

Look at it this way: you can be pro for what, 10-15 years? In that period of time there's realistically maybe 2 World Cups to attend (the player has to be in form). So realistically, you honestly think he should have taken his chances with the Canadian National team? That would have effectively killed his dream of ever playing for the World Cup.

It's easy to judge if you're not in the position to choose.

Oh come on! He even let his own brother down. I don't find a sense of loyalty to be connected to a sense of immaturity. There's nothing childish about loving and representing your country.

[alberta white]

Wow! The general consensus seems to be: Fat and lazy and get the hell out! LOL

My personal favourite is: he's quite the talent. He can eat two buckets from KFC in one sitting. Not since Matt Le Tissier have we seen skills like that!

I'm not sure how many actually saw "Le tiss"play but damn he was good. Also smile on his face all the time true entertainer. He he been in the Previous generationhe'd have been an an NASL1.0 All star.

Also, not been a Canuck myself I still find myself siding with Madmonte and Gator. He's an opertunist who'll never get a pint bought for him in any soccer bar in cnada once his careers over.

Where's the mans sense of national pride? Obviously has none as he neither playing for his Home or ancesteral country.

By the Way England is" Pacey wingers are us".

Do we seriously need to use a Division 2 one?

[Grizzly]

By the Way England is" Pacey wingers are us".

Do we seriously need to use a Division 2 one?

He would make a great KFC duo with Rooney though!

[Tuscan]

You know it's funny, every 20 pages or so someone new will put up the argument of how pro footballers only have X amount of time to make it, and they should just shoot for the country that will give them the best shot of making a World Cup. Gets shot down every single time, and I can't believe I still pay attention to this thread. May it live forever.

[alberta white]

He would make a great KFC duo with Rooney though!

............as red lobster has yet to find a err, Clawhold in the UK.

#notimeforrooney

[shamrock]

Keep living in the nationalistic bubble. The player that that chooses Canada over Netherlands is the player that is not good enough for the Netherlands. Insert Italy, France, Germany, USA and even Bosnia-Hercegovina for Netherlands and it's still true.

That's just the truth, and in fact we've seen it over and over again. What I don't understand is how anybody doesn't understand that playing a World Cup is THE higest there is in soccer, how can that not be your goal if you truely love soccer? All Canada has to do to change this is to get better, become a regular WC contender and the choice will be harder to make.

[Tarrius]

Keep living in the nationalistic bubble. The player that that chooses Canada over Netherlands is the player that is not good enough for the Netherlands. Insert Italy, France, Germany, USA and even Bosnia-Hercegovina for Netherlands and it's still true.

That's just the truth, and in fact we've seen it over and over again. What I don't understand is how anybody doesn't understand that playing a World Cup is THE higest there is in soccer, how can that not be your goal if you truely love soccer? All Canada has to do to change this is to get better, become a regular WC contender and the choice will be harder to make.

Why are you on these forums? To promote the fact that we should embrace the idea of Canadians choosing another nation so they have a higher chance to make it to the World Cup? What a stupid thing to say. If that were the case, then Canada would never really have a chance to qualify for a World Cup. If all the players that said they were going to play for our national team, or just those that could, then we would most likely be third best nation in CONCACAF, if not challenging for second.

The highest there is in soccer is to make it to the World Cup with the country you were born in. (Obviously there are a few exceptions with this, but for the most part, us Canucks have been repeatedly beaten down by the ideas of certain footballers playing for our national team that SHOULD have...)

You're an idiot.

[RamR]

Keep living in the nationalistic bubble. The player that that chooses Canada over Netherlands is the player that is not good enough for the Netherlands. Insert Italy, France, Germany, USA and even Bosnia-Hercegovina for Netherlands and it's still true.

That's just the truth, and in fact we've seen it over and over again. What I don't understand is how anybody doesn't understand that playing a World Cup is THE higest there is in soccer, how can that not be your goal if you truely love soccer? All Canada has to do to change this is to get better, become a regular WC contender and the choice will be harder to make.

You might be right about the fact that this sort of thing happens sometimes but that doesn't make it right!! How YOU cannot see that the World Cup is a national competition where players should play for THEIR country not whichever is the best country they are eligible for through FIFA's convoluted rules is a mystery to me.

[Soju]

Keep living in the nationalistic bubble.

Yes because the World Cup, a tournament in which nations compete with their best nationals for international supremacy, has nothing to do with nationalism. Are you ****ing high?

[narduch]

I always love trolls that want to teach us how to support the CANADIAN men's national team.

[alberta white]

I always love trolls that want to teach us how to support the CANADIAN men's national team.

All I can say is Ryan Giggs: English Schoolboy international because he lived in England

Welsh International, because thats where he was born.

Whats so hard about that? Seriously If you don't what to rep for the country of your birth then take up running or go play cricket! (oops did I just say that out loud?)

That fact that players can (are allowed) to manipulate the system for self opertunitative reasons quite frankly makes a mockery out of International football.

[shamrock]

You're an idiot.

Is it that hard to come up with arguments instead of insults? And not an original one either...

I'm not promoting anything. I hope the Mens team will win the Cup someday, but that's not realistic now is it? I just tried to explain why players make these choices and will be making these choices in the future.

You don't like it, but that's irrelevant.

[gator]

I always love trolls that want to teach us how to support the CANADIAN men's national team.

I'm not sure if Shamrock gets how supportive we are of our National teams and how much we hope one day to qualify for the World Cup again, hell, we have 100+ pages of discussion hoping one player born here will play for us! Everyone is entitled to their opinions on here but views like his won't do anything but anger most of us V's!

Edited May 7, 2013 by gator

[Lord Bob]

Let's talk about something less contentious, like whether the Whitecaps hate Canada.

[zeelaw]

Let's talk about something less contentious, like whether the Whitecaps hate Canada.

[madmonte]

Keep living in the nationalistic bubble. The player that that chooses Canada over Netherlands is the player that is not good enough for the Netherlands. Insert Italy, France, Germany, USA and even Bosnia-Hercegovina for Netherlands and it's still true.

That's just the truth, and in fact we've seen it over and over again. What I don't understand is how anybody doesn't understand that playing a World Cup is THE higest there is in soccer, how can that not be your goal if you truely love soccer? All Canada has to do to change this is to get better, become a regular WC contender and the choice will be harder to make.

Don't you think you are defeating your own point? To make the World Cup, don't we need a deeper talent pool? Ie: Players that actually choose their home country? I LIKE the nationalistic bubble. It's a sense of pride that clearly, some of these players, and frankly you, don't seem to have. If your goal is the World Cup at any cost, you aren't a soldier. You are a mercenary. That simple. I know which type of man I respect more.

[ag futbol]

Not exactly a fan of the post, but I will say he's right in saying real life dictates that people consider more than just nationalism in making their decisions.

With economic considerations and ever more murky national ties, you can be sure that having a better team is self reinforcing.

Otherwise it would be great if playing for the national team was something someone aspired to but remember we don't exactly have a culture in this country that supports that fully as of yet. Ignorant sports commentators often lament our results and ask why we even bother playing, our PM takes pictures with a guy who abandoned ship and thanks him for "all that he's done for Canadian Soccer". There is a growning sense of pride in the soccer community of our national team, but as a whole it's still lacking.

I'm not trying to say its right, I don't think we should be any less patriotic, but I wouldn't automatically assume everyone's waking up to put maple syrup on their back bacon.

[madmonte]

I am aware there is a double standard here...with guys like W. Johnson, and others that are current, plus guys like Koffie and Lefevre that looking to come in. But face it, those guys weren't going to play for their native countries anyways. Well...maybe Johnson has a shot now, but there was no predicting that when he chose Canada.

That said, murky national ties are one thing. If Hoilett chooses Jamaica, I'd be disappointed, and rave a bit, but be a lot less pissed off than if he was able to choose England. De Guzman choosing Netherlands with basically no ties at all seems a complete joke. I can forgive a Begovic faster than I can forgive a De Guzman, in other words.

When you are able to simply CHOOSE your country, even the fan base within your country is less apt to cheer for you. De Guzman hardly speaks Dutch...trust me, the Netherlands fans over there notice, and there's a large segment of people over there that don't like him taking a spot of a true Holland guy.

Talking about economics, I understand the exposure being on a prominent national team brings...but hell, that's what your CLUB career is for, is to take care of the economic side. The international side is supposed to be about representing what you care about...the true heart of football. It's unfortunate that it doesn't seem that way at times in the modern era, but making excuses like "economics" just encourages more of the same. It creates a spiralling effect. The rules on these things need to be MORE stringent not less. And if Canada football loses a Will Johnson, because of these stringent rules, or the ability to gain a Koffie? Well personally, I'd be fine with that.

Edited May 7, 2013 by madmonte

[Marc]

Not exactly a fan of the post, but I will say he's right in saying real life dictates that people consider more than just nationalism in making their decisions.

.

Of course there are rational considerations to be had. That is not something that anyone has disputed.

The problem with Shamrock's posts is not him pointing out the rational aspects of players' decision. No ****. As a newer poster he may not realize it, but everyone understands that here.

The thing is that the basis of international team sporting competition is inherently irrational. Guys putting their livelihoods on the line to compete in a largely meaningless activity on behalf of their 'nation' (of whatever choosing) is not a rational decision. Everyday citizens having an emotional investment in eleven guys or gals trying to put a ball into a net is also irrational.

So it is completely within the rights of people who follow the sport to get upset when someone makes a decision that goes completely against the grain. In this case, it's when players make decisions of out of rational self-interest.

The problem is that Shamrock is telling people to get over it and support that decision. 1) That's a pretty lame thing to do on a Canadian soccer messageboard. 2) Be rational is what is he saying. Be rational? WTF? None of us would be here, including himself! If we were all rational, there'd be no international soccer in the first place. His posts make no sense.