Gold Cup: Canada vs USA - Sunday, July 9th 7:30pm Eastern / 4:30pm Pacific - Cincinnati, OH (Match Thread)

[TOcanadafan]

I haven’t watched any of the US games… those who have, what do we have to do to beat them?

[Bigandy]

51 minutes ago, InglewoodJack said:

Just really can’t wrap my head around caring about this team one bit if you think we’re gonna lose. For fuck’s sake, go watch another sport or something. Can’t imagine finding any joy in that

THIS!!! It's similar to when guys just spew negativity. Those guys dont have any optimism and refuse to consider that success for Canada may have a different measuring stick than other federations. Go support someone else if you hate canada so much. 

[Shway]

2 hours ago, TGAA_Star said:

Even so they still played Jamaica and looked impressive all be it in a draw in fairness

No they didn't. Jamaica lost 2 pts between the missed penalty, and the chest down lay off pass.
I watched the game, and the USA didn't look impressive. 

But Jamaica looks and are playing like a better team than Canada....so we shall see.

Edited July 7, 2023 by Shway

[narduch]

So is Canada making any roster moves?

Replacing Borjan?

Is Kennedy still there?

[Shway]

Just now, Bigandy said:

THIS!!! It's similar to when guys just spew negativity. Those guys dont have any optimism and refuse to consider that success for Canada may have a different measuring stick than other federations. Go support someone else if you hate canada so much. 

@InglewoodJack

I think both your takes are subjective. 

I'm an Arsenal fan, and when I knew they were playing City....I would spew out saying "yea we can take them" but in reality if you actually watch football, your brain will tell you who the better team is and will give you the reality. 

So just because guys are saying "I think we are going to lose" doesn't mean they don't support Canada. That's a weird take. There's optimism and theres realism. 

I felt like we had a chance for the NL, this....I don't but I'll be watching supporting and hoping to be happily surprised. 

[king1010]

Just now, Shway said:

@InglewoodJack

I think both your takes are subjective. 

I'm an Arsenal fan, and when I knew they were playing City....I would spew out saying "yea we can take them" but in reality if you actually watch football, your brain will tell you who the better team is and will give you the reality. 

So just because guys are saying "I think we are going to lose" doesn't mean they don't support Canada. That's a weird take. There's optimism and theres realism. 

I felt like we had a chance for the NL, this....I don't but I'll be watching supporting and hoping to be happily surprised. 

I think the issue is when the same posters post every hour on the hour about how we have no chance and we suck and we’re going to lose. Absolutely no value added posts/ discussion. 

[Bigandy]

1 minute ago, Shway said:

@InglewoodJack

I think both your takes are subjective. 

I'm an Arsenal fan, and when I knew they were playing City....I would spew out saying "yea we can take them" but in reality if you actually watch football, your brain will tell you who the better team is and will give you the reality. 

So just because guys are saying "I think we are going to lose" doesn't mean they don't support Canada. That's a weird take. There's optimism and theres realism. 

I felt like we had a chance for the NL, this....I don't but I'll be watching supporting and hoping to be happily surprised. 

 I agree with what youre saying. I should clarify.

Being realistic is saying we will likely lose to the USA but theres a chance and I am hoping for an upset. 

Spewing negativity is saying, theres no chance ever we will win, or justifying claims with false information, refusing to acknowledge the good parts of a player/coach/CSA just because they are bad in other areas. 

I am all for calling a spade a spade or being a bit unrealistic because you want your team to win so you go with your heart instead of your head. I do not understand the opposite. When logically things are good but someone actively tries to inaccurately tear us down (assuming they claim to be fans of canada). 

[SpursFlu]

The crazy thing is if Canada pulls of a bit of an upset then the path looks pretty clear to winning this thing. Other than Jamaica & the US nobody looks all that good at the moment 

[BearcatSA]

1 hour ago, Alex said:

You clearly didn’t watch gold cups 2011, 2013 or 2015. We didn’t score a goal IN OPEN PLAY in any of those tournaments. But go on, we now suck with our best 6-8 players missing. If we had our best 6-8 players missing in any other gold cups prior to 2019 we would have had a team that lost to Guatemala and Guadeloupe. 

On the other hand, I'm quite happy to have the expectations bar far higher now.  Four some of those bad Gold Cups, posters were struggling to spin positives where they could find them from the performances.

[InglewoodJack]

11 minutes ago, Shway said:

@InglewoodJack

I think both your takes are subjective. 

I'm an Arsenal fan, and when I knew they were playing City....I would spew out saying "yea we can take them" but in reality if you actually watch football, your brain will tell you who the better team is and will give you the reality. 

So just because guys are saying "I think we are going to lose" doesn't mean they don't support Canada. That's a weird take. There's optimism and theres realism. 

I felt like we had a chance for the NL, this....I don't but I'll be watching supporting and hoping to be happily surprised. 

Arsenal is definitely a big underdog in that game and City would probably roll them, but there's at least a fair chance Arsenal can win or at least get a result- at least enough to make you believe that there's a point in watching the game. If you went around telling everyone you know that Arsenal was cooked, no chance in hell, you're getting smoked, then that would be very annoying, not to mention making the game pretty useless to watch.

[narduch]

St. Clair could stand on his head. He's done it before in MLS

 

[Shway]

7 minutes ago, InglewoodJack said:

Arsenal is definitely a big underdog in that game and City would probably roll them, but there's at least a fair chance Arsenal can win or at least get a result- at least enough to make you believe that there's a point in watching the game. If you went around telling everyone you know that Arsenal was cooked, no chance in hell, you're getting smoked, then that would be very annoying, not to mention making the game pretty useless to watch.

See I think you don't understand the true feelings of a supporter. Maybe you are a new Canada soccer fan (I don't know), but this is how some of us felt a lot of times before, but we still showed up, watched the game, bought the merch and supported. Hoping for there to be a miracle.

You're not a fan just because you watch games that your team is expected to win. And you're not a fan if you don't want to watch your team because the odds are drastically there for them to lose. 

You're a fan when you support regardless of knowing the inevitable. 

TO ADD:
If you can say that Arsenal is a big underdog to City, then what is Canada to the USA iyo? 

Edited July 7, 2023 by Shway

[Ottawafan]

I am not expecting the team to win.  Of course I'd like to see them beat the USA, but the talent gap between the two are noticeable in this tourney.

My biggest takeaway from these games has always been finding players that can play or push to play with our top players.  It isn't quite fair to judge based on a few games and in different situations.   Honestly feel comfortable with Ali, Nelson and McGraw all being contributors going forward.  A couple others have shown ( Bombito, St Clair ) well but will need to see more.

[Bigandy]

2 hours ago, Alex said:

You clearly didn’t watch gold cups 2011, 2013 or 2015. We didn’t score a goal IN OPEN PLAY in any of those tournaments. But go on, we now suck with our best 6-8 players missing. If we had our best 6-8 players missing in any other gold cups prior to 2019 we would have had a team that lost to Guatemala and Guadeloupe. 

I agree we are missing our 6-8 best guys but a guy like ugbo or piette would also be a massive help this tournament. 
Missing guys 

Crepeau
Borjan (kinda)
Adekugbe
Davies
Cornelius
Kennedy maybe sort of ? 
AJ 
Buchanan
Staq
Kone
Hutch
Piette
Ugbo
David
Larin

Corbeanu - maybe he didnt make the cut, but maybe part of the reason is to allow him to sort out his club situation? 

Thats agruably 12-16ish guys missing 

[WestHamCanadianinOxford]

Tough one on how you approach this for me.  The expectations were obviously lower when a majority of ours starters bowed out or we never planning on being here.  Yes the US did the same but 10x the pool (at least) means it doesn't hurt near as much. We need to blood guys and we have had some very mixed results doing that this tournament.

And yet winning things it what competing and really being a supporter is about. 

For me the balance would be something like, 

St Clair

Laryea Vitoria McGraw/(Kennedy if there) Miller.

Ahmed Fraser Osorio

Hoilett Millar

Cavallini

 

 

[InglewoodJack]

2 minutes ago, Shway said:

See I think you don't understand the true feelings of a supporter. Maybe you are a new Canada soccer fan (I don't know), but this is how some of us felt a lot of times before, but we still showed up, watched the game, bought the merch and supported. Hoping for there to be a miracle.

You're not a fan just because you watch games that your team is expected to win. And you're not a fan if you don't want to watch your team because the odds are drastically there for them to lose. 

You're a fan when you support regardless of knowing the inevitable. 

TO ADD:
If you can say that Arsenal is a big underdog to City, then what is Canada to the USA iyo? 

The whole "not sure if you're a real fan" policing thing is crazy man. I've been following this team for quite some time- definitely before we got good, but beyond that, I grew up as a Montreal Expos fan, and I've followed the Habs through the last 30 years of failure- I know very well what it's like to follow a team with no shot at winning much. But you go to the games, you think about the ways you might pull the upset off, you support and hope for the best, and if they pull off the upset, it's exciting, if they don't, losing sucks, but it is what it is. I have zero interest in looking at a game, assuming we have no shot, admitting defeat before it starts, and not only that, but obsessively telling everyone we're cooked before the game. We all know we're heavy underdogs. But you watch the games to see what happens, not to confirm your priors. That's not being a fan, it's expecting to watch scripted television.

The bolded is what I'm getting at. You hope for that miracle (I don't think we need a *miracle* to beat the US, but a big upset, that's for sure), but if you've already accepted the fact we're losing before the game even took place, that's not being a fan. It's being someone that is more interested in being right than anything else. That's not fandom, it's internet discussion fodder.

Canada *is* a big underdog to the USA. But Canada can beat the US and Arsenal could beat City. If the game was decided beforehand, I wouldn't bother watching.

[PopePouri]

5 hours ago, TGAA_Star said:

You're joking right? USA a team who in this Gold Cup have been well coached and have looked impressive...you expect a team like this to lose to Canada who have been disappointing all tournament?

Don't worry, we will win. 4-0 easy.

[Shway]

6 minutes ago, InglewoodJack said:

The whole "not sure if you're a real fan" policing thing is crazy man. I've been following this team for quite some time- definitely before we got good, but beyond that, I grew up as a Montreal Expos fan, and I've followed the Habs through the last 30 years of failure- I know very well what it's like to follow a team with no shot at winning much. But you go to the games, you think about the ways you might pull the upset off, you support and hope for the best, and if they pull off the upset, it's exciting, if they don't, losing sucks, but it is what it is. I have zero interest in looking at a game, assuming we have no shot, admitting defeat before it starts, and not only that, but obsessively telling everyone we're cooked before the game. We all know we're heavy underdogs. But you watch the games to see what happens, not to confirm your priors. That's not being a fan, it's expecting to watch scripted television.

The bolded is what I'm getting at. You hope for that miracle (I don't think we need a *miracle* to beat the US, but a big upset, that's for sure), but if you've already accepted the fact we're losing before the game even took place, that's not being a fan. It's being someone that is more interested in being right than anything else. That's not fandom, it's internet discussion fodder.

Canada *is* a big underdog to the USA. But Canada can beat the US and Arsenal could beat City. If the game was decided beforehand, I wouldn't bother watching.

Bunch of semantics being spewed out now, especially with the over analyzing of some words "miracle vs big upset" . I don't know how I got turned to the "policing thing" when it started with your comment. 

But anyways you are right. You win.

Folks remember now don't watch the game if you don't strongly think Canada can win. 

[InglewoodJack]

1 minute ago, Shway said:

Bunch of semantics being spewed out now, especially with the over analyzing of some words "miracle vs big upset" . I don't know how I got turned to the "policing thing" when it started with your comment. 

But anyways you are right. You win.

Folks remember now don't watch the game if you don't strongly think Canada can win. 

Because your post was stupid and now you're being wilfully ignorant. Nowhere did I say anything about needing to "strongly think Canada can win". If you choose to follow teams you think are going to lose, that's a huge waste of time, and I suggest you pick up a new hobby.

[king1010]

My 2 cents. I think you can be a fan while accepting the fact that you will lose. If that weren’t the case, the island minnows wouldn’t have any fans. 
 

I remember some dark gold cups in early 2010s, turning on the tv expecting us to score zero goals and thats what happened lol. I’m still here and have been here every-time in between. Id consider myself a “fan” and not someone “interested in being right”. 

[Shway]

19 minutes ago, WestHamCanadianinOxford said:

Tough one on how you approach this for me.  The expectations were obviously lower when a majority of ours starters bowed out or we never planning on being here.  Yes the US did the same but 10x the pool (at least) means it doesn't hurt near as much. We need to blood guys and we have had some very mixed results doing that this tournament.

And yet winning things it what competing and really being a supporter is about. 

Spot on. 

19 minutes ago, WestHamCanadianinOxford said:

For me the balance would be something like, 

St Clair

Laryea Vitoria McGraw/(Kennedy if there) Miller.

Ahmed Fraser Osorio

Hoilett Millar

Cavallini

I like the personnel... just think the formation needs to be reworked or something. But playing Cavallini as the lone striker doesn't work, and like how Millar complimented his inabilities. 

So maybe a 442 with Hoilett in the LM position.

[king1010]

2 minutes ago, InglewoodJack said:

Because your post was stupid and now you're being wilfully ignorant. Nowhere did I say anything about needing to "strongly think Canada can win". If you choose to follow teams you think are going to lose, that's a huge waste of time, and I suggest you pick up a new hobby.

There’s a whole bunch of leaf fans from 2015 to 2022 who would disagree. 

[canuckgbp]

I think it depends how Herdman sets us up. If we absorb pressure, don’t get cute with high lines and get stuck in, think we have a good chance. If it’s an open type game think we are in trouble. 
 

Hit on the counter, use Millar/Shaff as a speed outlets and try and hope Hoilett can delivery us some quality moments.
 

Ahmed and Laryea aren’t afraid to move forward and cause problems. Just have to pick our moments. 
 

Osorio, Fraser and the CB’s are slow and we should look to minimize when they get caught out. 

More balls in the mixer on the counters and hope Cav can head one home. 

Not sure we win but we have a decent chance. If we start trying to body then and dictate play think it’s going to be a long game imo. 

[InglewoodJack]

3 minutes ago, king1010 said:

There’s a whole bunch of leaf fans from 2015 to 2022 who would disagree. 

Great example of what I'm talking about. Objectively speaking, no one should assume the Leafs are going to win anything because they will always find a way to fumble it. Nevertheless, fans watch because maybe this is their year, maybe Matthews or Marner goes insane and carries the team to the cup, maybe something. It won't happen, and anyone putting money on the game should bet against the Leafs, but you keep that hope alive just in case. Same thing with the Habs cup run in 21.

[Bigandy]

15 minutes ago, Shway said:

Spot on. 

I like the personnel... just think the formation needs to be reworked or something. But playing Cavallini as the lone striker doesn't work, and like how Millar complimented his inabilities. 

So maybe a 442 with Hoilett in the LM position.

agreed but Herdman hasnt really played 4-3-3. If we play ZMG, miller and vitoria we need a low block and guys with speed to counter. So millar would have to play up top. I'd be shocked if miller players anything other than lcb though.  

Prediction of herdmans line up. 
3-5-2 
ZMG Vitoria miller
Laryea fraser oso Ahmed 
Hoilett
Millar Cav 

Edit: I think Kennedy could play RCB if hes available. 

I think millar has cemented his spot as a 9 besides cav. The major unknown is where ahmed plays. I think hes now lwb.  The only other option for lwb is millar and then we just shuffle the rest of the guys around which puts everyone in their slightly weaker position imo.

Edited July 7, 2023 by Bigandy