CONCACAF's hosting monopoly

[Kent]

The other day I was reflecting on all the (potential) upcoming national team competitions for Canada. At this point I am assuming the USA will host every final by default, which is pretty tiresome. Does anybody think any of these finals will be held outside of the USA? Maybe some early round Gold Cup games, and obviously early rounds of Nations League and the World Cup, but I don't have any faith that anyone other than the USA will be the venue for the final of each of these competitions.

2023 Nations League - Confirmed USA will host the final
2023 Gold Cup - Confirmed USA will host the final
2024 Nations League - Confirmed USA will host the final
2024 Copa America - Confirmed USA will host
2025 Gold Cup
2026 World Cup

6 trophies in 3.5 years. It sure would be nice if these got spread around a little.

Edited November 14, 2023 by Kent
Updated confirmed host list with 2023 and 2024 Nations League

[dyslexic nam]

Do I think they will be hosted outside the US?  Nope. 

Do I think they should be hosted outside the US?  Damn right.  

it is utterly ridiculous that they have a monopoly.  I know the whole economic argument so it doesn’t need to be rehashed, but giving the home field advantage all the time is ludicrous. The one saving grace (IMO) is that it seems to leave them ill-prepared to play in hostile away environments. 

[VinceA]

I asked Montagliani directly the hosting question in 2018 and he straight up said the amount of money generated in the USA is too much to not host basically everything there.

I didn't like the answer but he was straight up. CONCACAF is a money starved region (We probably have the biggest economic drop off from one country to the other in anywhere other than the OFC, and even then NZ doesn't have much) and CONCACAF will do everything they can to maximise revenues.

The other issue is the infrastructure in other countries is so far behind and has arguable gotten worse over time there's no incentive. Jamaica/ CR/ ES/ have maybe like1-2 stadiums that can host multiple events.

I understand moving things around for sporting reasons but we aren't Europe or SA where there's multiple countries on similar economic levels, and our biggest country is a melting pot that has tons of people from the surrounding countries that could sell-out stadiums and bring in revenue.

I don't like the situation, but it is what it is in this region.

 

 

Edited February 8, 2023 by VinceA

[harrycoyster]

2 minutes ago, VinceA said:

I asked Montagliani directly the hosting question in 2018 and he straight up said the amount of money generated in the USA is too much to not host basically everything there.

I didn't like the answer but he was straight up. CONCACAF is a money starved region (We probably have the biggest economic drop off from one country to the other in anywhere other than the OFC, and even then NZ doesn't have much) and CONCACAF will do everything they can to maximise revenues.

The other issue is the infrastructure in other countries is so far behind and has arguable gotten worse over time there's no incentive. Jamaica/ CR/ ES/ have maybe like1-2 stadiums that can host multiple events.

I understand moving things around for sporting reasons but we aren't Europe or SA where there's multiple countries on similar economic levels, and our biggest country is a melting pot that has tons of people from the surrounding countries that could sell-out stadiums and bring in revenue.

I don't like the situation, but it is what it is in this region.

 

 

The real killer is that Mexico is actively hostile to playing at home and are in bed with SUM. They are the only country beside us that isn't entirely reliant on the US for their federation budget and they still prefer the cash to home games.

I wouldn't be surprised if an expanded TFC stadium is worked into the Gold Cup group stage rotation though.

[narduch]

I wonder how often they can keep going into this well and it still pays off.

You would think they would eventually over saturate the market.

[Unnamed Trialist]

If we don't put grass down at BC Place for a few official matches in one of these tournaments we are idiots. 

After Bontis and the CSA treating us like a colony last summer I don't expect they give a damn and will let Vancouver eat shit without a care.

 

[VinceA]

50 minutes ago, harrycoyster said:

The real killer is that Mexico is actively hostile to playing at home and are in bed with SUM. They are the only country beside us that isn't entirely reliant on the US for their federation budget and they still prefer the cash to home games.

I wouldn't be surprised if an expanded TFC stadium is worked into the Gold Cup group stage rotation though.

It an open secret the FMF hates playing matches in their own country.

[harrycoyster]

36 minutes ago, VinceA said:

It an open secret the FMF hates playing matches in their own country.

Right...because for every federation executive in CONCACAF, games in the US represents money in their pockets.

[ob1]

This has always made me so angry
The money is a just another form of bribe (even if most countries agree), and it all amounts to corruption and cheating. 

Having the gold cups in USA give them and Mexico a much bigger advantage with the crowd and the refs who are influenced by the crowd.

Add to that the Draw is always fixed to ensure they are likely to meet in final even if one team stumbles in pool play.

Their progress in the tournament and the lack of progress by other nations has a direct impact on important FIFA points (worth more in GC) in turn leading to a higher FIFA & CONCACAF rankings which has also increased their chances to a more favorable ranking for World Cup qualification. and through some years made it difficult for the remaining teams including Canada to climb ahead of others within CONCACAF. 

 

Also hurts other teams when their only travel aboard is in WCQ. 
Imagine we played a whole tournament in Honduras or EL Salvador prior to a WCQ cycle?

How much more would we be prepared ?

Edited February 8, 2023 by ob1

[Kent]

4 hours ago, VinceA said:

The other issue is the infrastructure in other countries is so far behind and has arguable gotten worse over time there's no incentive. Jamaica/ CR/ ES/ have maybe like1-2 stadiums that can host multiple events.

Nations League playoffs are only 4 games, 2 semis, the final, and the third place game. That could be hosted by plenty of countries in CONCACAF.

For the Gold Cup, Mexico could easily host. Canada could probably host as well (but it would have to mostly be on artificial turf). You could probably put together 2 or 3 Central American teams for a joint hosting.

I know the answer is still money, money, money (they call it the Gold Cup for a reason), but I hate it. They are stunting competitive growth in the region in my opinion.

[SpursFlu]

I agree that it should be moved around but the reality is we have 3 stadiums and terrible weather and the US has like 180 stadiums and good weather

Not to mention more Latin Americans than what are actually in Latin America 

 

 

 

 

 

[beachesl]

1 hour ago, SpursFlu said:

 

Not to mention more Latin Americans than what are actually in Latin America 

 

 

 

 

 

Well not quite (there are over half a billion latinamericans in latinamerica,  and 62 million in the USA. However, the ones in the states are a lot richer generally, and a big market for the soccer industry. I had to suffer a match after midnight in below-zero weather in Copa America 2011, in San Juan, Argentina, in July because it was an optimal time for TV broadcast in the States for their latinos. 

[MauditYvon]

14 hours ago, VinceA said:

The other issue is the infrastructure in other countries is so far behind and has arguable gotten worse over time there's no incentive. Jamaica/ CR/ ES/ have maybe like1-2 stadiums that can host multiple events.

Right, but you have Mexico and Canada that have all the requirements. I would also like to see a GC hosted in 2 central american countries, Panama + Costa Rica for example.

[Ansem]

8 hours ago, MauditYvon said:

Right, but you have Mexico and Canada that have all the requirements.

Except a backbone.

Welcome to CESA --> the future "Confederation of the Empire Soccer Association"

In the works

• Hosting all Nations League finals (on top of all Gold Cup)
• Hosting all future Copa America tournaments
• Hosting all Copa Libertadores/CCL series
• Absorbing CONMEBOL
• Becoming the sole World Cup bidder for the Americas --> Forever

Good times ahead

[Watchmen]

I understand the Gold Cup, but I'm a little more puzzled over the Nations League final. A Mexico-Canada final would surely still do well in either country.

[SpursFlu]

EI Salvadors building a fantastic new stadium. That's good news for the region 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Kingston]

3 hours ago, Ansem said:

Except a backbone.

Except this is voted on by all CONCACAF members.  If it was just Canada, Mexico, and the US then, sure, we'd outvote them and arrange some sort of rotation.  So what kind of "backbone" should Canada show that will convince all the small countries to vote differently?

[Ansem]

2 hours ago, Kingston said:

Except this is voted on by all CONCACAF members.  If it was just Canada, Mexico, and the US then, sure, we'd outvote them and arrange some sort of rotation.  So what kind of "backbone" should Canada show that will convince all the small countries to vote differently?

Why can't we get "some" of the games?

Seems in this country we don't even have the confidence to say that "we might not host the whole thing but surely we can host ONE CanMNT game" --> which would help grow the sport here if over time you move that/those game(s) around the country

Nah - I'm just a greedy delusional American hater who just don't get it. The CSA will find another way to grow the sport here, don't mind me. 🙄

Edited February 9, 2023 by Ansem

[JamboAl]

2 hours ago, Ansem said:

Why can't we get "some" of the games?

Seems in this country we don't even have the confidence to say that "we might not host the whole thing but surely we can host ONE CanMNT game" --> which would help grow the sport here if over time you move that/those game(s) around the country

Nah - I'm just a greedy delusional American hater who just don't get it. The CSA will find another way to grow the sport here, don't mind me. 🙄

I think most people share your sentiments.  But you know in business, you can’t bring C$75,000 profit to a negotiation when the other side promises US$1 M.  Mexico has found that out and has folded like a cheap suit more so than Canada.

[Ansem]

21 minutes ago, JamboAl said:

I think most people share your sentiments.  But you know in business, you can’t bring C$75,000 profit to a negotiation when the other side promises US$1 M.  Mexico has found that out and has folded like a cheap suit more so than Canada.

At least the Mexicans are getting something in return, I'll withdraw my accusation of them not having a backbone

https://www.latimes.com/sports/soccer/story/2022-05-23/mexico-national-soccer-team-united-states-promotions-deal

“Having this opportunity to extend the contract, knowing that this money will come to the Mexican Federation in the following years, lets us plan and program many projects on the sports side, both men and women, and on the youth part throughout the entire country,” said Yon de Luisa, the federation’s president. “It’s really important to play in the U.S. against great opponents, to be in contact with our fan base in the U.S., but also to have that income.”

De Luisa declined to discuss financial aspects of the agreement but said money generated by U.S. sponsors and through SUM-sponsored tours of the U.S. accounts for more than a third of the federation’s annual budget. As a nonprofit, the federation is required by law to invest every dollar it makes in its programs.

 

[gigi riva]

I dont see this changing any time soon in all honesty. I guess at the end of the day it is all comes down to money and who will generate more revenue . I do see Canada hosting a game similiar to what they did in 2015  in the future and thats about it . It kind of annoys me that it happens,and at the same time kind of diminishes the tournament in a way

[Kingston]

14 hours ago, Ansem said:

Why can't we get "some" of the games?

Seems in this country we don't even have the confidence to say that "we might not host the whole thing but surely we can host ONE CanMNT game" --> which would help grow the sport here if over time you move that/those game(s) around the country

I agree with you.  I think it is stupid that the US hosts everything even if they can earn more money than anyone else.

My point was that it isn't really a case of the CSA having backbone, it is a case of the CSA getting outvoted by twenty little countries that like their US money.

By analogy, I'm not fond of our current federal government but the millions of voters in Montreal and the GTA who blindly vote Liberal in every election prevent me from electing someone else.  It isn't a lack of backbone; just numbers.

[SthMelbRed]

23 minutes ago, Kingston said:

I agree with you.  I think it is stupid that the US hosts everything even if they can earn more money than anyone else.

My point was that it isn't really a case of the CSA having backbone, it is a case of the CSA getting outvoted by twenty little countries that like their US money.

By analogy, I'm not fond of our current federal government but the millions of voters in Montreal and the GTA who blindly vote Liberal in every election prevent me from electing someone else.  It isn't a lack of backbone; just numbers.

Or, perhaps they vote for what they see as the best of the available options with their eyes wide open. 

[Unnamed Trialist]

12 minutes ago, SthMelbRed said:

Or, perhaps they vote for what they see as the best of the available options with their eyes wide open. 

I was going to ask about the other wildly blind voting options.

[Ansem]

10 minutes ago, SthMelbRed said:

Or, perhaps they vote for what they see as the best of the available options with their eyes wide open. 

Bingo - It's not like Bontis even bother coming up with something. Under Montagliani, we not only got games at the Gold Cup but games in 2026.

If you never ask/pitch/propose/demand - you shall never receive.