Jonathan David

[sebdeserio]

33 minutes ago, frmr said:

There's no more despicable club on the planet than PSG. Anywhere but there.

City is worse. PSG have better fans than pretty much every English club. No adjustment to a different league while still being a step up in responsibility and competition.

[InglewoodJack]

Ignoring the minor issue of how PSG pays their bills, they’re one of the best fits for David. From their POV, by losing Mbappe, there’s no more conflict for who is the leader of the team- it’s Neymar’s team. But at the same time, you’re getting a player who is realistically going to contribute a massive portion of what Mbappe would’ve done- I don’t think the decline between him and JD is sharp enough to affect their performance. From David’s POV, this is the best way to break into that absolute soccer zenith- they’re one of the best teams in the world, for sure, but a few 20 goal seasons with solid champions league performances is how he gets sold to Liverpool for twice his current value in 2024, or how he ultimately joins AD in Munich. 
 

plus, PSG plays a lot of throwaway games, and JD has proven more than capable to put a team on his back, so when they’re playing Ajaccio or whatever and Neymar, Messi, etc., want the day off, they can expect an easy brace from Jonathan David.

[WestHamCanadianinOxford]

16 minutes ago, sebdeserio said:

City is worse. PSG have better fans than pretty much every English club. No adjustment to a different league while still being a step up in responsibility and competition.

Check out any list of most dedicated fans, you will find a couple or so English teams.  PSG never features.  They are the definition of big money plastic.  To be fair, it must be hard to care when your club has enough money to win the league every year but have won the same  European hardware as West Ham United. 

 

David wants to play in England and as long its not in N17, we should probably respect that wish at some point. 

Edited October 11, 2022 by WestHamCanadianinOxford

[WestHamCanadianinOxford]

20 minutes ago, InglewoodJack said:

From David’s POV, this is the best way to break into that absolute soccer zenith- they’re one of the best teams in the world, for sure

They haven't won a European trophy since 1996 (their one and only) with all their money.  Their market value is almost 3x the next club in France, of course they win most of the time there.  

Give David decent competition week in and week out and really see him grow. 

[Free kick]

33 minutes ago, WestHamCanadianinOxford said:

Check out any list of most dedicated fans, you will find a couple or so English teams.  PSG never features.  They are the definition of big money plastic.  To be fair, it must be hard to care when your club has enough money to win the league every year but have won the same  European hardware as West Ham United. 

 

 

That might be an issue for Jonathan David if he were going to PSG to sit amongst the fans.  But as far as i know, he would be going to PSG to be on the pitch.

 

PS.:  an observation that I have made over the years:  any time someone or some group accuses another fan group of being plastic or not dedicated, its becasue they are jealous that of that club's fan support, financial wherewithal and resources.    Basically,  its the rallying cry of small clubs who cant compete.  they use to say this about Manchester United fans,  Arsenal fans...etc etc.  Go to the Montreal Impact forums and see what they say about TFC fans.   Same thing, it happens all over the world.   Clubs that have a large fan base, will inevitably be called plastic.

Edited October 11, 2022 by Free kick

[frmr]

2 minutes ago, Free kick said:

That might be an issue for Jonathan David if he were going to PSG to sit amongst the fans.  But as far as i know, he would be going to PSG to be on the pitch.

The reply you're quoting was to someone saying PSG had better fans than "pretty much every English club", not why David shouldn't go to PSG.

[frmr]

40 minutes ago, sebdeserio said:

City is worse. PSG have better fans than pretty much every English club. No adjustment to a different league while still being a step up in responsibility and competition.

I have seen some dumb takes in my time on this thread, but this might just be the crown jewel.

[WestHamCanadianinOxford]

1 minute ago, Free kick said:

That might be an issue for Jonathan David if he were going to PSG to sit amongst the fans.  But as far as i know, he would be going to PSG to be on the pitch.

If fans don't make some difference for the players, we sure do go on this board for no reason.

 

But the comment was about PSG fans in response to a comment about the same, pretty silly non sequitor overall.

[InglewoodJack]

7 minutes ago, WestHamCanadianinOxford said:

They haven't won a European trophy since 1996 (their one and only) with all their money.  Their market value is almost 3x the next club in France, of course they win most of the time there.  

Give David decent competition week in and week out and really see him grow. 

You could say similar things about Manchester City though- they're still favoured to go deep in Champions league every year, they're considered among Europe's best teams. I don't know what his English suitors look like- I thought last summer there were talks of clubs like Everton and (I think?) Villa being interested in him- I'd rather him at PSG than there. But if he's getting interest from Arsenal or Liverpool, teams of that stature, then those are way better offers.

[dyslexic nam]

It would just be funny to me if we were to conclude that a club with Messi and Neymar isn’t good enough for David.  I know we have climbed the FIFA ranking but, you know…

[dyslexic nam]

 

(double post) 

Edited October 11, 2022 by dyslexic nam

[WestHamCanadianinOxford]

45 minutes ago, Free kick said:

That might be an issue for Jonathan David if he were going to PSG to sit amongst the fans.  But as far as i know, he would be going to PSG to be on the pitch.

 

PS.:  an observation that I have made over the years:  any time someone or some group accuses another fan group of being plastic or not dedicated, its becasue they are jealous that of that club's financial wherewithal and resources.    Basically,  its the rallying cry of small clubs who cant compete.

In response to second point, if I wanted to pick a more successful club than one I grew up hearing about from family, I certainly could have.  Money has nothing to do with.

Teams I know

Chelsea has a hardcore support that has been there forever and a bunch of new plastics.

Liverpool, the same 

Manchester United , the same with a few more older plastics even around England because they got good again when media exploded.

Man City, I tolerate more because I grew up hating Man U because everyone who knew a tiny bit about football supported them.  But the same - core and plastics.

Arsenal support seems a bit more organic and fickle and quiet but have stuck through some recent lean times.

Tottenham - my biases prevent me from giving a straight answer.

Newcastle - haven't anything had in almost 70 years I think and some championships almost 100 years ago.  But their fans still come out.   They will gain a bunch of plastics if they start winning things with their new-found money but I will still respect the Newcastle fans.

We have day-trippers because we have a lot of seats and they are cheap comparatively.  And if we got a massive cash infusion we would have a lot of plastics if we won anything.

 

PSG has a lot of fans because of the players they bought and people are fans of the individuals.  Their support comes a lot from outside Paris and outside France, even though they have generally been the only Paris Ligue 1 team for a lot of their history. Which extends back to 1970, really. It's not because they have won much outside of France, they are on the same official level with West Ham in that area.  

Edited October 11, 2022 by WestHamCanadianinOxford

[WestHamCanadianinOxford]

5 minutes ago, dyslexic nam said:

It would just be funny to me if we were to conclude that a club with Messi and Neymar isn’t good enough for David.  I know we have climbed the FIFA ranking but, you know…

My biases abound but I would like to see him in Germany, Spain or Italy before PSG.  Where there is more competition.  

But as I said, let David speak for himself

 'I want to become one of the best strikers in the world. That's my goal.

'The Premier League is the best in the world and most competitive so obviously that is somewhere I would love to play in the future.'

[dyslexic nam]

3 minutes ago, WestHamCanadianinOxford said:

My biases abound but I would like to see him in Germany, Spain or Italy before PSG.  Where there is more competition.  

But as I said, let David speak for himself

 'I want to become one of the best strikers in the world. That's my goal.

'The Premier League is the best in the world and most competitive so obviously that is somewhere I would love to play in the future.'

I get it.  But the kid is 22.  He doesn’t need to make the final big career jump at this point - and his progress to date has very much been a stepwise progression.  I suspect that if he were offered silly money to play with absolute legends of the game, he would be willing to postpone the English dream for a couple of years.  

[WestHamCanadianinOxford]

22 minutes ago, InglewoodJack said:

You could say similar things about Manchester City though- they're still favoured to go deep in Champions league every year, they're considered among Europe's best teams. I don't know what his English suitors look like- I thought last summer there were talks of clubs like Everton and (I think?) Villa being interested in him- I'd rather him at PSG than there. But if he's getting interest from Arsenal or Liverpool, teams of that stature, then those are way better offers.

I have never said I would like him to move there.  I like watching them and would rather they win than other teams but I don't think they are a great place to develop.  I would prefer it to PSG. 

They do have the advantage of playing better teams week to week. It is not a complete shock if they don't win their league every year.

I didn't want David at Everton or Villa but he was linked with Arsenal, not sure by who or if Arsenal knew anything about it. And others.  

[WestHamCanadianinOxford]

5 minutes ago, dyslexic nam said:

I get it.  But the kid is 22.  He doesn’t need to make the final big career jump at this point - and his progress to date has very much been a stepwise progression.  I suspect that if he were offered silly money to play with absolute legends of the game, he would be willing to postpone the English dream for a couple of years.  

Fair enough, I would still hold my nose and support him,  one of my favourite players.  But I can argue vehemently in this space which means very little against him going there, because of my biases and his development.  He has a ways to go and few more dues to pay, in my very humble opinion.

[Free kick]

24 minutes ago, WestHamCanadianinOxford said:

In response to second point, if I wanted to pick a more successful club than one I grew up hearing about from family, I certainly could have.  Money has nothing to do with.

Teams I know

Chelsea has a hardcore support that has been there forever and a bunch of new plastics.

Liverpool, the same 

Manchester United , the same with a few more older plastics even around England because they got good again when media exploded.

Man City, I tolerate more because I grew up hating Man U because everyone who knew a tiny bit about football supported them.  But the same - core and plastics.

Arsenal support seems a bit more organic and fickle and quiet but have stuck through some recent lean times.

Tottenham - my biases prevent me from giving a straight answer.

Newcastle - haven't anything in almost 70 years I think and some championships almost 100 years ago.  But their fans still come out.   They will gain a bunch of plastics if theystart winning things with their newfound money but I will still respect the Newcastle fans.

We have day-trippers because we have a lot of seats and they are cheap comparatively.  And if we got a massive cash infusion we would have a lot plastics if we won anything.

 

PSG has a lot of fan because of the players they bought and people are fans of the individuals.  Their support comes a lot from outside Paris and outside France, even though they have generally been the only Paris Ligue 1 team for a lot of their history. Which extends back to 1970, really. It not because they have won much outside of France, they are on the same official level with West Ham in that area.  

If I were to expand on this based on what I know and have heard.   Newcastle have always had a large base, but nobody calls them fickle or plastic.  Why? because they never win anything.    I dont like Man U, but I have met many of their supporters who are very dedicated and loyal.   I know Arsenal fans who very loyal.   If a club starts winning, its natural that their fan base will grow, you will have problem if it didn't grow.  I agree with you if you see a massive growth of numbers at the turnstiles just because you have one good season and then a massive drop when you return to mediocrity.    But most dont fall under this extreme.  In your last point about PSG's fan based growing from ppl outside Paris,  well would be a sign of good management (combined with winning).  Can't fault a club for wishing to develop their brand to maximize revenues so that they could better compete with better talent in the long term.  Call them plastic if you want,  but no one can truly define plastic anyways.  The cost of the ticket is the same whether you have club tattoo or are eating a Prawn

Edited October 11, 2022 by Free kick

[WestHamCanadianinOxford]

1 minute ago, Free kick said:

If I were to expand on this based on what I know and have heard.   Newcastle have always had a large base, but nobody calls them fickle or plastic.  Why, because they never win anything.    I dont like Man U, but I have met many of their supporters who are very dedicated and loyal.   I know Arsenal fans who very loyal.   If a club starts winning, its natural that their fan base will grow, you will have problem if it didn't grow.  I agree with you if you see a massive growth of numbers at the turnstiles just because you have one good season and then a massive drop when you return to mediocrity.    But most dont fall under this extreme.  In your last point about PSG's fan based growing from ppl outside Paris,  well would be a sign of good management (combined with winning).  Can't fault a club for wishing to develop their brand to maximize revenues so that they could better compete with better talent in the long term.  Call them plastic if you want,  but no one can truly define plastic anyways.  The cost of the ticket is the same whether you have club tattoo or are eating a Prawn

Half of your post repeated what I said about specific clubs. 

A plastic is there for a bit or the good times when they never had to go through the bad.  If you haven't had bad times for 10 years in your league, you need a better league. 

I can't fault a club for trying anything, I get into this with West Ham supporters all the time.  Us old-school fans are going to be dead or at least stop going in 30 years at most. So you do different things. 

The point was directly in response to saying PSG fans were better than any English club.  I certainly went off but it doesn't stop me from thinking of the club as big money and plastic.  Marketing over classic fanbase, for good and bad. 

[costarg]

5 hours ago, InglewoodJack said:

So Mbappe wants out in January. My David to PSG plan is coming together…

I'd rather keep David as far from Neymar as possible, no expert, but the guy seems like a toxic mess to me. 

Obviously, just my personal opinion, but I don't feel any team will win the WC or CL with Neymar as their leader/star.  I first said this back in 2015 I believe and it still holds.  I'm confident both Brazil and PSG would be better without him in the dressing room.

[frmr]

51 minutes ago, costarg said:

I'd rather keep David as far from Neymar as possible, no expert, but the guy seems like a toxic mess to me. 

Obviously, just my personal opinion, but I don't feel any team will win the WC or CL with Neymar as their leader/star.  I first said this back in 2015 I believe and it still holds.  I'm confident both Brazil and PSG would be better without him in the dressing room.

Neymar has actually been PSG's best player this year, from what I've seen. PSG as a whole is a toxic mess though. It's a perennial dumpster fire. Keep David far, far away from that club. Even United is far and away a better option right now. Just my humble opinion of course.

[SoCalTransport]

4 hours ago, frmr said:

Neymar has actually been PSG's best player this year, from what I've seen. PSG as a whole is a toxic mess though. It's a perennial dumpster fire. Keep David far, far away from that club. Even United is far and away a better option right now. Just my humble opinion of course.

I would like to see David in the EPL, but I don’t know if the options are there for an elite club…Man United is probably the best fit sadly. I agree with @InglewoodJack, my gut tells me PSG has a good chance of happening. Who knows where he’ll fit in there though.

[frmr]

If Kane ends up going to Bayern (I think this is still unlikely at this point) I could see David to Tottenham happening, and I don't think that would be a bad move.

[costarg]

12 hours ago, frmr said:

Neymar has actually been PSG's best player this year, from what I've seen. PSG as a whole is a toxic mess though. It's a perennial dumpster fire. Keep David far, far away from that club. Even United is far and away a better option right now. Just my humble opinion of course.

I never said he wasn't talented, he can rack up the stats just as well as anyone.  That doesn't mean he isn't toxic and holding back his team even with the production.  The dumpster fire grew exponentially since his arrival, it was nowhere near as bad before him.

[Obinna]

There is also the option to remain at Lille.

I don't like that option, but it may be better than moving to Manchester United or PSG. I actually think PSG would be less risky than Man U would be. He knows the league and the coach and he could be afforded the time to be integrated slowly, which could be a good thing. PSG are far from my top choice though, and I dislike them for many of the same reasons already stated.

I wonder if the Italian clubs are his best bet? Napoli, Inter and AC Milan were all linked at one point, but it caught my eye that Juventus played with a front 2 yesterday of Di Maria and Vladovic. Couldn't that be David instead (of Di Maria)? I know Juventus have been on a poor run since winning multiple consecutive titles, but if they are experimenting with Di Maria in that way, maybe David is the ideal player for them. A second forward my nature who can lead the line himself, if needed. He'll get playing time and Juventus could afford him. The chance of titles is there and the likelyhood of European football is basically guarenteed. Makes sense to me.

[frmr]

3 minutes ago, costarg said:

I never said he wasn't talented, he can rack up the stats just as well as anyone.  That doesn't mean he isn't toxic and holding back his team even with the production.  The dumpster fire grew exponentially since his arrival, it was nowhere near as bad before him.

Mbappe is a much bigger cause of unrest at PSG currently. He's turned in an entitled little child who has turned his time at PSG into a complete parody. Messi and Neymar have not been a problem this season, Mbappe has.