Zambrano out!

[shamrock]

19 minutes ago, BrennanFan said:

The reason so few womens coaches make the transition to the mens game is that mens coaching requires a more advanced skillset and experience level.  The gulf is wide.  There's a reason our women lose to U15 boys teams in training. 

To think that a coach who does well with a womens national team program is thus qualified for the mens program is INSANE.  Its not exactly like hiring a coach who has done well at the U15 level, but its pretty close.  At least he will work within the CSAs budget.

No. The gap is between the players, not the coaches. As mentioned before, coaching a national team involves planning, scouting, getting good opponents. I don't see why a guy that has coached women can't do these things. 

[Ansem]

19 minutes ago, BuzzAndSting said:

And we lost to fucking El Salvador again! In game where we really showed nothing!

We showed that when we don't have our best players or they are having a off day, we're vintage Canada...Not even Zambrano could change that. We need to start over the men's program just like we did for the women. 

Was it necessary for Herdman to be coach? Maybe not, but that's not our main problem, so maybe, just maybe the CSA saw that too. Zambrano or Herdman, if our best players aren't there or are having a bad game, it's vintage Canada all over again. We lack DEPTH. We aren't producing those players not enough of them. I'm a HUGE CPL enthusiast as it gets but it won't fix all our problems either. We need to rethink our program and we have an asset who did it for the women and delivered results. 

I don't agree with how they handle this situation, but I see the logic behind it. Anyone thinking Zambrano would qualify us for 2022, aren't being realistic. Post 2026 is realistic. Not even the Americans survived the HEX which is brutal when you follow it. We aren't there yet. Plain and simple

[The Beaver]

24 minutes ago, BuzzAndSting said:

Well the CSA fucked up by letting someone leak this.

Maybe so. But maybe they didn't leak it.

[BearcatSA]

20 minutes ago, BuzzAndSting said:

Peter Schaad is a reputable soccer commentator in this country and don’t see why anyone would have reason to not believe in him. Like any quality journalist if he’s reporting it he likely has trust in his sources.

if you reason to believe otherwise please enlighten us.

Depends upon who his sources are.  I can guess at a few of whom where I would question their credibility (as they grind their axes).

There were a number of tactical decisions and player selections which Zambrano made that I questioned quite a bit.  But I also know that our player base has too many journeyman skilled players that get overrated as having international quality (by some of these bloggers).  With the guys who are key core players going forward, like Arfield and Hoilett, I was happy to see young ones like Davies, Edwards, Jackson-Hamel, Adekugbe given their shot alongside them instead of more experienced but mediocre safe types who could have been brought in.

Perhaps Zambrano's all-around development plan he unveiled recently may have been more of an issue than anything he did with the NT, who knows?

 

[BrennanFan]

24 minutes ago, shamrock said:

No. The gap is between the players, not the coaches. As mentioned before, coaching a national team involves planning, scouting, getting good opponents. I don't see why a guy that has coached women can't do these things. 

Women play 15 year olds bc their physical level is similar (tho not equal).  Id say u15 tactical and off the ball awareness is equal to the women. By U17 its superior. Its a tough pill to swallow but that's the level our women are at if were going to compare, which we shouldn't, but here we are in a situation where its very relevant.

Im not saying Herdman doesn't have what it takes, Im saying he has not proven himself and has no experience at this level, not even close.

[BCM]

2 hours ago, Chad_Impact said:

"Some sources had told me that Zambrano was going to set the program behind so badly, that any chance of qualifying for the 2022 World Cup were vanishing, fast."

Who the fuck are these people, and how the fuck do they come to these conclusions. There was a CLEAR improvement in the quality of play and organization on the field, and players seemed to really like him. It just makes no sense

Sandor repeated the narrative he's being fed. Poor quality journalism at its worst.

I really find journalists pathetic when they write fluff happy stories up until the moment of change, then all of a sudden it's "everyone heard the whispers", "he's been reviewed several times", etc. If that's the case, why didn't the reporters, you know, report this news? They're spitting out junk or didn't do their jobs properly so as to maintain an "inside source".

[The Beaver]

I think so much of this decision--i.e. to fire Z and hire Herdman--comes down to the fact that the CSA feels we need a strategic builder--immediately--even if their preferred candidate does not have the world class coaching experience we'd all want that candidate to have. From Herdman himself:

"It's an exciting time," said Herdman. "It really is an exciting time for the men's game and I think that's where hopefully my skill sets come in as a strategic thinker, a person detailed with planning who can look towards 2026 but also keep one eye on 2022 — which is what I've been doing with the women's side — synthesizing a football system to get the best out of it ... and then driving the changes through, getting the right people around the team to make the changes."

[BCM]

1 hour ago, lazlo_80 said:

From Schaad, as well as other threads from Molinaro, Sandor, I'm too lazy to link right now...

out of his depth

inability to set up the infrastructure of a true national program

strange personnel choices

lack of tactics

lack of communication with other coaches

no real plan for  scouting and identifying talent

no real impact on the recruitment of players he was credited with bringing in.

You're welcome to believe them or not. Just wanted to point out that these "whispers" are being whispered by alot of respectable sources.

To me this reads as follows - OZ was rocking the boat, trying to do an end-around entrenched fat cats, and the tired/old administration did not want to (and will not) change!

[BrennanFan]

The plot thickens...

 

[SpecialK]

My issue with this who thing. If Oz needed to be fired, steps should have been taken place, why jump right to Herdman and give him everything right away? I'm not saying the men's game is better and all that bullshit, but the women's game is different from the men's. John has no  experience managing men's  International football. If he forced their hand, the CSA should of had some back bone and say look john we believe your a great coach so here's the U17 or u20 and here's some games for you , show us what you can do. 

A inter coach should have been named and  proper interviews started with john and others like Marc Dos Santos , John Van't Schip, Dwight Lodewges , Mauro Biello , Jimmy Nicholl, Michael Findlay and others. Also a Special  Committee should have been made to  facilitate that, not the CSA  President or board. Reed is a slimy weasel. 

Also what type of  leash will John have? Because honesty if we don't  qualify for the Olympics and the World Cup in 2022, we are gonna be even more of a laughing stock going into 2026. If this  experiment fails Reed and the whole board should  resign. We need  results now !

I don't understand this hiring ! It's  reckless, stupid and no oversight. I hope john and Reed know what they are doing because if it blows up, it's gonna be  career suicide and push the program back years ! 

If I was sinclair or any of the girls on the team, I would have punch John Herdman right in the face and say a BIG FUCK YOU you using little  bastard , we are not good enough for you? 

 

[Obinna]

6 hours ago, Ansem said:

He needs to chill really

Nope i fully support him on this. Enough is enough.

[SpecialK]

[Wingback6]

As an Arsenal fan, the title of this thread had very different connotations for me. I clicked to see what your argument was. No idea it was news. Guess that explains how you get to 19 pages in 7hrs!!!!

[matty]

I'm just thinking about the fact Sinclair didn't have word on this prior. It's a fucking joke. The fucking face of the whole program and the first Canadian that comes to mind when you think of "Canadian soccer" not knowing what's up with the coaching situation for their own program does not at all look good.

Part of me hopes this is just a massive fuck up and Herdman has not been moved to the men's team and that Findlay is taking over while they talk with Dos Santos, Biello and others but shit that seems massively unlikely.

Hope Herdman, Heiner-Møller and Reed the best of luck with the teams because only Heiner-Møller is guaranteed to exit this unharmed if things go south, unless Reed is able to get some big games in Canada in 2026.

Between this and the way the CPL went official, Vic's legacy is very tainted by poor moves at the end. It already had negative touches from the turf at the WWC.

[BCM]

6 hours ago, harrycoyster said:

Even if Zambrano had to go for whatever reason, hiring a women's coach to a multi-year without a search committee? Come on.

 

6 hours ago, hamiltonfan said:

JESUS 

Even the good lord himself would have trouble  saving us (from ourselves). This is the stuff of mickey mouse and alice in wonderland fantasy. You can't make it up!

[SpecialK]

I can't wait for this press conference! I pray he doesn't hold back! 

[Grizzly]

4 hours ago, nolbertos said:

I’d rather see lulz if Anthony Totera coached the CMNT.  I’d honestly think he’s get better results than Herdman, oh I went there.

His enthusiasm for Canada would at least be motivational for the players! 

[Unnamed Trialist]

3 hours ago, Joe MacCarthy said:

So he neither has experience or any coaching education?  He does?  But it's "only" women.  If that isn't sexist I don't know what is.  I guess he only took the coaching "women only" certification licenses.

Imagine if the opposite had happened: Herdman is fired, a smear campaign is started against him, and he is replaced by Octavio Zambrano. The reaction would be exactly the same: we have lost a good men's coach for an unproven women's coach, and kicked out our experienced person who has had proven good results with the women.

The move would be widely criticized on this board. Not because we are sexist, but because we have knowledge of what tends to work in world football. 

Do you know get it, or are you just going to be obtuse and unjustifiably accuse people of sexism?

[Obinna]

3 hours ago, Joe MacCarthy said:

So he neither has experience or any coaching education?  He does?  But it's "only" women.  If that isn't sexist I don't know what is.  I guess he only took the coaching "women only" certification licenses.

It is not about gender, it is about standard.

[BCM]

11 minutes ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

Imagine if the opposite had happened: Herdman is fired, a smear campaign is started against him, and he is replaced by Octavio Zambrano. The reaction would be exactly the same: we have lost a good men's coach for an unproven women's coach, and kicked out our experienced person who has had proven good results with the women.

The move would be widely criticized on this board. Not because we are sexist, but because we have knowledge of what tends to work in world football. 

Do you know get it, or are you just going to be obtuse and unjustifiably accuse people of sexism?

@Unnamed Trialist I disagree with a lot of what you say on this site, or maybe it's more accurate to say how you say things on this site, but you are 100 percent correct here. The assertion that the board's reaction is sexist is laughable and not to be taken seriously.

[Obinna]

3 hours ago, jonovision said:

I think this was Rene Simoes.

Who coached the Brazilian women's national team, ironically.

[Obinna]

3 hours ago, Bison44 said:

He managed to get Cavallini back, and Cordova to commit.  But there are lots of guys in CSA that can bird dog duals...only one guy that actaully works on tactics and game management.  Maybe they think Herdman will get Akinola, Tomori, Tabla, and some other youngsters to be excited about a young rising coach.  That I can actually understand.  We'll see what everyone says tomorrow at the press conferences.

Hahaha tabla. I'm sure his dream is to play for John Herdman lol

[Moldy9]

7 hours ago, Ruud said:

Hypothesis 1 - Zambrano takes some decent results from GC and starts to pull rank on the administrators for more funding.  Maybe he has another job offer in the works that he uses as leverage.

Hypothesis 2 - Zambrano is affected by the #METOO campaign and about to get canned for harassing staff at the CSA

Hypothesis 3 - Herdman tells CSA he can help them qualify their men for the 2026 WC, and the CSA have forgotten that they already qualify as host country.

 

 

Hypothesis 4 - CSA brass watched the Golden Globes and were inspired by Natalie Portman and thought it was a brilliant idea to appease the WMNT coach for their performances and promote him to CMNT in order to similarly boost Canada’s men’s ranking up 90 spots while back stabbing the only good thing we had going for us since 2000 GC.

Reaction: Vs also watched Oprah’s call to stand up against oppressors and demand CSA get sacked. TIME’S UP

[Unnamed Trialist]

3 minutes ago, Obinna said:

Who coached the Brazilian women's national team, ironically.

It is not a problem of a person coaching both men and women. I heard an interview last week with Pochettino, Spurs coach, where he explained he got his experience and licencing with the Espanyol women's team, as an assistant, and learnt a lot, then was hired to coach the men. But he'd been a player with them for years when active, he's an Espanyol man. Of course you can transition, that is not the problem.

Herdman has not played any decent level of professional men's soccer. He has never coached a men's professional team. He has no experience and is drawing from an invalid source, the CWNT. He was hired without due process. His hiring set back a properly handled hiring process for a colleague, who he seems to have undermined from inside. Thos are all marks against him. 

The simple fact is, if John Herdman had coached Wilmington for a year, or Berwick Rangers in Scotland, or some 2nd division team in Denmark, anything, the reaction here would be softer and we'd be looking at his men's pro team results, though probably we'd still be critical. 

[Moldy9]

Ok I’m just utterly gutted. I’ll just go radio silent and see where this “brilliant move” goes. 

Guys don’t be complacent like them. They need to be held accountable and deserve criticism

ffs I thought NDS and Braz were bad at the front office. At least now we know they can have something to fall back on