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CPL new teams speculation


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Interesting quote in this Beirne interview 

https://m.soundcloud.com/adam-coombs-3/interview-with-dale-smith-on-ckcu-931-fm

When asked what teams will be in the league, Beirne said that he couldn't elaborate past the public teams, but did say that the league will be coast to coast, including both the Pacific and Atlantic, and that you can take that as you would (paraphrasing) 

Certainly implies interest in BC

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16 minutes ago, ironcub14 said:

I nominate Complete Homer as the chief archivist of the Canadian Premier League.

Yes, I know he already does so at NSXI lol.

I've had a lot of 24 hr call lately with only me, my pager, and a mostly empty hospital to keep me occupied. Endless flipping through twitter has become the norm :P

On that note though, one of the residents I was with on the weekend brought up how excited he was for this new "Canadian Premier League" thing and was wondering if I'd heard of it. Word is getting out! 

Edited by Complete Homer
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1 hour ago, dsqpr said:

I'm not surprised, just disappointed.

It is certainly possible to start a professional league where the teams are not franchises. What makes you think that this is the case only in Europe? When you need to make such a disingenuous implication to make your point then you obviously know full well that your point is not valid!

If you need some kind of time-limited revenue sharing system to reassure investors in order to get the thing off the ground, fine. But the whole MLS franchise thing is total bullshit because it ensures that the team does not belong to the community. Just take Toronto FC. They can never jump to CPL even if they wanted to because they are an MLS franchise that would be sold to the highest bidder and stay in MLS, but in a different city: in which case the message to TFC fans would simply be "up yours".

Can I just ask, as someone who admitedly doesn't really know a ton about how the club system doesnt work, how does a franchise differ from a club?

You used toronto fc as an example as a team that could never join the cpl. But does the fact that arsenal is a club allow it to hypothetically join the scottish premier league?

I understand the romance of a club at the low levels, but for teams in the prems does the differentiation between club and franchise change things? Just curious as I fully admit I don't know the difference.

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9 minutes ago, lazlo_80 said:

Can I just ask, as someone who admitedly doesn't really know a ton about how the club system doesnt work, how does a franchise differ from a club?

You used toronto fc as an example as a team that could never join the cpl. But does the fact that arsenal is a club allow it to hypothetically join the scottish premier league?

I understand the romance of a club at the low levels, but for teams in the prems does the differentiation between club and franchise change things? Just curious as I fully admit I don't know the difference.

Most English Premiership "clubs" have lost their ways with the advent of massive foreign ownership takeovers. They tend to be run like North American sports franchises now. Bundesliga and La Liga clubs for the most part are still member owned and run by the fans. I guess that's just it, clubs are run by the fans who elect a BOD/BOG who then make the club's decisions. Still room for corruption but it's still better than some outside corporation running it like a franchise. 

I recall last week during our chat with Paul B that both him and I had a mutual admiration for the Bundesliga with regards to how the league is run and overall club ownership. 

Edited by Macksam
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Just now, Macksam said:

Most English Premiership "clubs" have lost their ways with the advent of massive foreign ownership takeovers. They tend to be run like North American sports franchises now. Bundesliga and La Liga clubs for the most part are still member owned and run by the fans.

So is the difference ownership? Clubs are community owned, while franchises are investor owned?

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11 minutes ago, lazlo_80 said:

So is the difference ownership? Clubs are community owned, while franchises are investor owned?

That's how I make my distinction, but I think truthfully it has to do with league control and territory rights. MLS the league dictates where a franchise goes and what territory it covers. A club on the other hand enters a competition and tries to work its way up a certain league system. However, this particular distinction is at the most basic level IMO and I stand by how these teams' ownerships are structured as the best modern day distinction.

Edited by Macksam
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3 hours ago, Complete Homer said:

I've had a lot of 24 hr call lately with only me, my pager, and a mostly empty hospital to keep me occupied. Endless flipping through twitter has become the norm :P

On that note though, one of the residents I was with on the weekend brought up how excited he was for this new "Canadian Premier League" thing and was wondering if I'd heard of it. Word is getting out! 

that's awesome.  always a positive sign when stuff like this comes back to you

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7 minutes ago, dsqpr said:

So it is easy to see how clubs effectively belong to the fans (the club isn't going anywhere) whereas franchises belong to the owners (who can move them wherever they please).

Feel free to decide for yourselves which "entity" you would prefer to support!

I'm looking forward to hear what @Rheo has to say in favour of franchises because from a fan's perspective I can't think of a single positive!

it all makes sense. and thankyou for clarifying.

I suppose the advantage that comes to mind is that you can essentially go from 0 to 60 in a franchise model alot easier than a club structure which would require organic growth and interest coming from the community itself. if you get a group of millionaire/billionaire types they can say "hey lets make this a big deal and drop millions on making these teams big deals" whereas to wait for that organically to happen in a club structure, especially in a north american context could take far longer,

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11 hours ago, lazlo_80 said:

A few things in here Duane infers from his interview with Mr. Bierne and a few other things he's heard...

http://www.canadiansoccernews.com/forums/topic/46492-canpl-bits-and-bites-for-may-17/

So Rollins now says Quebec City and Trois Rivieres for the interest in Quebec after previously appearing to have no idea what was going on there when he was pushing a narrative that revolved around the larger markets and a mysterious billionaire. Not sure what to make of that, but suspect the info is probably valid given there is no obvious reason for secrecy now that the league has formal CSA membership and bids are under active evaluation on a 60 day sort of timeline.

Trois Rivieres is about the same size as Moncton in terms of its metro area, which seems very small for budgets revolving around crowds of 6000 or so. Is it credible to regularly attract 1 in 25 people in a city like that to pro soccer games or would budgets have to be revised to something lower if the apparent move towards smaller markets continues? I suspect the latter and if it meant something similar in approach to the original CSL it would be no bad thing in terms of the development of younger Canadian players.

The Attak owners were close to the Impact previously, so even if it's not a formal B team they have in mind maybe there could still be some kind of affiliate thing going on through regular player loans similar to what K/W United are doing this season with TFC in a PDL context.

Edited by BringBackTheBlizzard
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3 hours ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

Is it credible to regularly attract 1 in 25 people in a city like that to pro soccer games or would budgets have to be revised to something lower if the apparent move towards smaller markets continues?

Footysoldiers reiterated on their podcast that player budgets will be around 1.5 million.

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13 hours ago, dsqpr said:

I'm not surprised, just disappointed.

It is certainly possible to start a professional league where the teams are not franchises. What makes you think that this is the case only in Europe? When you need to make such a disingenuous implication to make your point then you obviously know full well that your point is not valid!

If you need some kind of time-limited revenue sharing system to reassure investors in order to get the thing off the ground, fine. But the whole MLS franchise thing is total bullshit because it ensures that the team does not belong to the community. Just take Toronto FC. They can never jump to CPL even if they wanted to because they are an MLS franchise that would be sold to the highest bidder and stay in MLS, but in a different city: in which case the message to TFC fans would simply be "up yours".

Ok I'm back.  I'll admit I was over simplifying things when referring to Europe.  It was lazy because it was the easy comparison.

So before I reply, can I clarify that you are "disappointed" because it appears that the CPL will have franchises and that will preclude from belonging to the community?

 

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10 hours ago, dsqpr said:

Or you could get a group of investors, each with a stake in a particular community, and start a league with a revenue sharing agreement to minimize the risk for each individual investor. Then the league would admit clubs on an ad-hoc basis as new investors were found in other communities -- no franchise fee required. The clubs would still have value as a going concern, just like clubs in the EPL today.

 

This is exactly what I was hoping for as well, and this is such an important topic at the moment, since whatever financial model the CPL owners decide to go with this year, that's what CPL will likely look like for its entire existence.

I'll hop over to the other thread as well in a moment, but when Duane put on twitter yesterday that the potential franchise fee may be $1.5 million and will likely include a stake in a SUM equivalent for Canada, I asked him if that was purely for ownership in the marketing company, or for the right to start a franchise or a club in the league, or for part-ownership of a single entity CPL as well. No reply tho.

The little morsels that PB and Bob Young have given us so far indicates that they are at least open to avoiding pure single entity and the "franchises within CPL" model, but that could just be us being hopeful.

I will quickly say that, the only thing I'm hoping CPL really does truly implement in its financial model is to keep each "club" separate from each other financially and legally. I'm okay if there is no collective memberships for season seat holders or a board of governors or whatever, because I do recognize that the few clubs in La Liga that have it and the clubs in Germany that do have this model all have a 100 years worth of history in the community that CPL clubs cannot hope to replicate, right away at least anyways.

Edited by ironcub14
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1 hour ago, ironcub14 said:

This is exactly what I was hoping for as well, and this is such an important topic at the moment, since whatever financial model the CPL owners decide to go with this year, that's what CPL will likely look like for its entire existence.

I'll hop over to the other thread as well in a moment, but when Duane put on twitter yesterday that the potential franchise fee may be $1.5 million and will likely include a stake in a SUM equivalent for Canada, I asked him if that was purely for ownership in the marketing company, or for the right to start a franchise or a club in the league, or for part-ownership of a single entity CPL as well. No reply tho.

The little morsels that PB and Bob Young have given us so far indicates that they are at least open to avoiding pure single entity and the "franchises within CPL" model, but that could just be us being hopeful.

I will quickly say that, the only thing I'm hoping CPL really does truly implement in its financial model is to keep each "club" separate from each other financially and legally. I'm okay if there is no collective memberships for season seat holders or a board of governors or whatever, because I do recognize that the few clubs in La Liga that have it and the clubs in Germany that do have this model all have a 100 years worth of history in the community that CPL clubs cannot hope to replicate, right away at least anyways.

Depending on how they approach it this may not entirely be the case. What I'd like to see is rather than an investor creating a "Large City SC" out of nothing and then trying to build from scratch, take that investment and buy (or come to some sort of agreement with) a local, established club (or clubs, really earn the title 'united') and create the CPLteam. 

Instantly there is an established community affiliation, history, name recognition, player-pool, etc. Also, most importantly, it'll support my pipe-dream of multiple teams in a metro area because any rival teams will want to follow them into the CPL

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27 minutes ago, Oranje said:

Depending on how they approach it this may not entirely be the case. What I'd like to see is rather than an investor creating a "Large City SC" out of nothing and then trying to build from scratch, take that investment and buy (or come to some sort of agreement with) a local, established club (or clubs, really earn the title 'united') and create the CPLteam. 

Instantly there is an established community affiliation, history, name recognition, player-pool, etc. Also, most importantly, it'll support my pipe-dream of multiple teams in a metro area because any rival teams will want to follow them into the CPL

In an ideal scenario, I would agree with you.

Realistically though, I'm just going based on what I know about Toronto and Ottawa, I can't see any L1O or any firmly established community clubs in either of those two areas being bought by the type of billionaires that have generally been rumoured to be CPL ownerships, and having them transformed into a CPL club to battle against the CFL-backed teams.

I can't see Sigma or Ottawa South United or North Toronto SC, any of them to be bought and transformed into a CPL club. The only literal exception I can think of at this point is the KW PDL team.

What I can see though is those type of clubs making the jump up to a potential CPL2 20-30 years from now. But for CPL as of this decade, I think the necessary option is the "Large City SCs".

Edited by ironcub14
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