CPL new teams speculation

[TGAA_Star]

Definitely would expand this league to  16 ultimately and the expansion cities being:

 

- Kelowna

- Edmonton

- Saskatoon

- Regina

- London

- Mississauga 

- Quebec City

- St. John's

[K Edgar]

3 hours ago, TGAA_Star said:

Definitely would expand this league to  16 ultimately and the expansion cities being:

 

- Kelowna

- Edmonton

- Saskatoon

- Regina

- London

- Mississauga 

- Quebec City

- St. John's

Need more Quebec teams... add Laval (or some other Montreal area team).

[TGAA_Star]

47 minutes ago, K Edgar said:

Need more Quebec teams... add Laval (or some other Montreal area team).

Laval could work but I went with Quebec City because of the population growing and you can easily have a stadium built in the center of the city

[Ansem]

Laval has 2 Ligue 1 Quebec clubs, I'd prefer that those clubs gets the opportunity to make Laval their own. Montreal Island makes more sense

[Kingston]

4 hours ago, TGAA_Star said:

Laval could work but I went with Quebec City because of the population growing and you can easily have a stadium built in the center of the city

I think Quebec city is a much better choice. You get a very good, midsize city with no major pro sports teams (minor league baseball) all to yourself.  And, unlike Montreal, you are not competing with an MLS team in the same market.

[K Edgar]

3 hours ago, Kingston said:

I think Quebec city is a much better choice. You get a very good, midsize city with no major pro sports teams (minor league baseball) all to yourself.  And, unlike Montreal, you are not competing with an MLS team in the same market.

The point I was trying to make was if the CanPL expands to 16 teams (as per @TGAA_Star comment) then more than 1 team in the province of Quebec would make sense.  Quebec city and Laval or another Montreal suburb was my suggestion.  With 22% of Canada's population even 2 would under represent.

[Tigers]

Expansion in general, but especially to 16, means figuring out how to share major markets like London UK does or Melbourne/AFL or Sydney/NRL have (understanding the historical reasons those leagues exists the way they do aside). I think York botched their launch, and maybe need to die and come back later like Edmonton, and tie more stronger into suburb identities. 

To expand from current to 12, ideal conditions:

2 in Quebec (it's our second largest province, there *has* to be a way to work(

Edmonton 

Saskatchewan (probably 'Toon as a counterweight to the Riders(

(York to KW or London)

 

And to get to 16

Mississauga 

Scarborough 

(Both *have* to be big-budget to get buy-in, and I think launching together for rivalry would be key)

1 West (Kelowna, Sask 2)

1 East (Moncton, St John's, London/KW)

 

Edited May 8 by Tigers

[K Edgar]

Impressive performances by Saint-Laurent and TSS Rovers in the Canadian Championship proves that it is not a lack of Canadian talent that is holding back CanPL expansion.

[narduch]

1 hour ago, K Edgar said:

Impressive performances by Saint-Laurent and TSS Rovers in the Canadian Championship proves that it is not a lack of Canadian talent that is holding back CanPL expansion.

We need more CPL teams so these good L1 players can move up to better competition.

[narduch]

 

 

[Mihairokov]

3 hours ago, Tigers said:

 I think York botched their launch, and maybe need to die and come back later like Edmonton, and tie more stronger into suburb identities.

Suburbs don't have identities - they're appendages of the cities they're suburbs of. It's why all professional and most semi-professional suburban teams eventually fail. If junior and minor hockey teams can't survive then not many others will either.

 

3 hours ago, K Edgar said:

Impressive performances by Saint-Laurent and TSS Rovers in the Canadian Championship proves that it is not a lack of Canadian talent that is holding back CanPL expansion.

Indeed, it's the logistics of finding a facility, figuring out travel, and finding enough people willing to chip money in to watch it locally.

Edited May 9 by Mihairokov

[masster]

Interesting quote from an article in the Calgary Herald regarding the VFC match being played in Kelowna...

“Especially the Okanagan Valley — and Kelowna, in particular — has been on the CPL radar for some time,” Allison said. “The circumstances were that the first group that looked at it wasn’t able to put the puzzle together. But it’s had a bit of a rising from the ashes and the city seems to be on board. And with the Apple Bowl out there, there’s a venue that has hosted our sport in the past.

https://calgaryherald.com/sports/kelowna-gets-cavalry-vancouver-neutral-site-cpl-match-with-expansion-in-mind

[Unnamed Trialist]

5 hours ago, masster said:

Interesting quote from an article in the Calgary Herald regarding the VFC match being played in Kelowna...

“Especially the Okanagan Valley — and Kelowna, in particular — has been on the CPL radar for some time,” Allison said. “The circumstances were that the first group that looked at it wasn’t able to put the puzzle together. But it’s had a bit of a rising from the ashes and the city seems to be on board. And with the Apple Bowl out there, there’s a venue that has hosted our sport in the past.

https://calgaryherald.com/sports/kelowna-gets-cavalry-vancouver-neutral-site-cpl-match-with-expansion-in-mind

Thing is, they have to get rid of that track. Really they should build a track elsewhere, if they need a track for high school sports, keep the main stand, and do it right. 

Perhaps this is why the city is involved, since it is an infrastructure they'd put funds into. 

My personal opinion is that not one of the CPL stadiums meets the standard, they are all subpar. Going from what I've seen from a distance, and up close in two cases. Some are okay, but just okay. The best I'd give a 6 and the worst a 3. We need a fully wrap-around stadium, enclosed or almost, in poured concrete, stands on at least three sides. Capacity 8-10 thousand. Ideal for a women's league too.

No porta-potties and Atco trailers in the corners, no grassy bits here and there for the kids to slurp on soft ice cream while wearing the welding glasses their folks insist on. No generators romantically buzzing in the distance. No beer gardens in the mud under a half roof some place most would associate with an ideal location for teens to make out.

[Footscray]

The city and SD have been talking about building a new high school on the Apple Bowl site as well as building a brand new rec and community centre. 

The positive is that makes it way more likely that funding could be added to build out the apple bowl - the timing might be really good here with the city already having a huge budget to play with to redevelop the site.  242 million dollar budget is already approved and that doesn't include the high school build.

But the track might be a going concern unless they build a soccer stadium in a completely different field on the site.  All the local schools do their spring track meets there and it's something that's pretty significant in the community at all the schools for the kids and families and there are no other facilities in town.  I can't see them ripping it out. 

The other negative is that the site buildout is going to really eliminate a lot of the parking, the new high school is going in right where the apple bowl parking lot is right now, which is already pretty limited as far as supporting 2-4,000 people coming to the site whereas downtown is full of parkades if they were to build down there.

Replacement for Kelowna’s Parkinson Rec Centre to cost $180M - Kelowna Capital News (kelownacapnews.com)

*Edit, better site picture in this link*

Edited May 9 by Footscray

[phil03]

On 5/8/2024 at 9:47 PM, narduch said:

 

 

Its worth noting that a lot of these fans were Impact ones who CS Saint Laurent was able to borrow, so to speak, for a night. Add to it the draw of the opponent and IMO that really shouldn't be seen as a proof that a CPL club in the greater Montreal would work...

That isn't to say that CS Saint Laurent as the basis of a CPL club isn't a good idea, they got some very flattering mainstream coverage in French-Canadian media and it would be a shame to waste it. Instead, I'd combine it with the hope we all have for a club in Québec city. CS Saint Laurent would continue to be around, just like Foothills is still a thing, and can continue to do their excellent work in developing and scouting players in the Greater Montréal Area, where there is talent to fuel more then one professional club, and help the new Québec city club build their player pool as they also invest on their own local scene.

It would work for all the reasons Québec city as a general idea would work plus it would have the goodwill and name recognition it has built in the last weeks to attract fans, sponsors, and investors.

[Kent]

15 hours ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

Thing is, they have to get rid of that track. Really they should build a track elsewhere, if they need a track for high school sports, keep the main stand, and do it right. 

Perhaps this is why the city is involved, since it is an infrastructure they'd put funds into. 

My personal opinion is that not one of the CPL stadiums meets the standard, they are all subpar. Going from what I've seen from a distance, and up close in two cases. Some are okay, but just okay. The best I'd give a 6 and the worst a 3. We need a fully wrap-around stadium, enclosed or almost, in poured concrete, stands on at least three sides. Capacity 8-10 thousand. Ideal for a women's league too.

No porta-potties and Atco trailers in the corners, no grassy bits here and there for the kids to slurp on soft ice cream while wearing the welding glasses their folks insist on. No generators romantically buzzing in the distance. No beer gardens in the mud under a half roof some place most would associate with an ideal location for teens to make out.

While we are designing an ideal stadium, I would add that it should have real grass (maybe you assumed that's a given, but I think it needs mentioning in a CPL context since it's so rare here) and should have things like under soil heating and any other winter proofing features so that CONCACAF Champions Cup games can actually be played there. And I'm not trying to say that these are show stoppers for an expansion team, but if I were to piggy back off your rating system, for me a stadium would need these things to get up to 8, 9, 10 territory.

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

4 hours ago, phil03 said:

Its worth noting that a lot of these fans were Impact ones who CS Saint Laurent was able to borrow, so to speak, for a night. Add to it the draw of the opponent and IMO that really shouldn't be seen as a proof that a CPL club in the greater Montreal would work...

Something similar happened with TFC fans at York Lions stadium when the Impact played York 9 back in 2019 and it didn't translate into regular support for the CanPL team.

 

[Tigers]

On 5/8/2024 at 11:13 PM, Mihairokov said:

Suburbs don't have identities - they're appendages of the cities they're suburbs of. It's why all professional and most semi-professional suburban teams eventually fail. 

Tell that to the NRL.

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

I assume you mean Australian rugby league with that? Pro sports in Sydney unfolded very differently from what happened in Toronto because Montreal, Detroit, Chicago, Boston and New York in a hockey context and smaller second tier AAA level cities in an International League baseball context could all be reached reasonably easily by express passenger trains back in the day.

[Mihairokov]

17 hours ago, Tigers said:

Tell that to the NRL.

I thought it was obvious I was referring to Canadian/North American sport and not leagues on the other side of the world.

[yothat2]

On 5/9/2024 at 8:53 PM, phil03 said:

Its worth noting that a lot of these fans were Impact ones who CS Saint Laurent was able to borrow, so to speak, for a night. Add to it the draw of the opponent and IMO that really shouldn't be seen as a proof that a CPL club in the greater Montreal would work...

That isn't to say that CS Saint Laurent as the basis of a CPL club isn't a good idea, they got some very flattering mainstream coverage in French-Canadian media and it would be a shame to waste it. Instead, I'd combine it with the hope we all have for a club in Québec city. CS Saint Laurent would continue to be around, just like Foothills is still a thing, and can continue to do their excellent work in developing and scouting players in the Greater Montréal Area, where there is talent to fuel more then one professional club, and help the new Québec city club build their player pool as they also invest on their own local scene.

It would work for all the reasons Québec city as a general idea would work plus it would have the goodwill and name recognition it has built in the last weeks to attract fans, sponsors, and investors.

Can we do an survey .. who wants CS Saint Laurent in the CPL and those who prefer to wait for Quebec City or laval bid 

[Kingston]

9 hours ago, yothat2 said:

Can we do an survey .. who wants CS Saint Laurent in the CPL and those who prefer to wait for Quebec City or laval bid 

Quebec City all the way.

[K Edgar]

10 hours ago, yothat2 said:

Can we do an survey .. who wants CS Saint Laurent in the CPL and those who prefer to wait for Quebec City or laval bid 

CanPL needs a team in the province of Quebec... no preference just whoever can get organized first

[Mihairokov]

I'm hesitant to say that a good turnout against TFC for a cup match is indicative of overall market support for CPL. It might be indicative of a quasi-MLS match. Extrapolating the match's result and jumping to the conclusion that CSS-L should be in CPL tomorrow seems rash. At the end of the day, who owns the team? And whoever is putting money in is liking going to want their own branding, their own identity, etc. It's not as simple as simply "promoting" CSS-L to CPL and calling that a day on expansion.

[narduch]

3 minutes ago, Mihairokov said:

I'm hesitant to say that a good turnout against TFC for a cup match is indicative of overall market support for CPL. It might be indicative of a quasi-MLS match. Extrapolating the match's result and jumping to the conclusion that CSS-L should be in CPL tomorrow seems rash. At the end of the day, who owns the team? And whoever is putting money in is liking going to want their own branding, their own identity, etc. It's not as simple as simply "promoting" CSS-L to CPL and calling that a day on expansion.

Yup. In 2019, York 9 had over 5,000 for their Cup match against Montreal