Roster for September WCQ - News / Discussion

[paul-collins]

10 minutes ago, king1010 said:

also something tells me Johnson won't be anywhere near the national team if Floro is still in charge. It's no secret he isn't afraid to "blacklist" players who act/ speak out like Johnson is doing through the media. 

Somehow i think Will already feels he is blacklisted.

[Big_M]

League matches in 2016:

Defense
Jakovic 1 japanese D1 match
Henry 0 matches
Vittoria 0 matches
James 10 hungarian D1 matches 
Aird 15 mls matches
Beckie 18 nasl matches
Trafford 19 nasl matches
Roberts 15 nasl matches
Edward 20 nasl matches

Midfield
Piette 4 spanish D3 matches and 10-15 spanish D4 matches
Dixon 13 finnish D2 matches and 7 nasl matches
Bekker 17 mls matches
Johnson 18 mls matches

Dixon won't stay a starter in nasl for long. Limited skill set and bad decision making.

[Gian-Luca]

1 hour ago, Weather said:

http://www.sportsnet.ca/soccer/will-johnson-canada-world-cup-qualfiying-tfc-toronto-fc-mls-benito-floro/

This gets odder and odder.

"

Furthermore, Floro’s statement in the MLSsoccer.com article that Johnson “prefers not to play” is inaccurate, according to the Canadian midfielder.

“I never spoke to Benito, but it was 100 per cent his decision. I’ve never turned down a World Cup qualifier invitation,” Johnson told reporters on Tuesday after TFC’s practice.

"

Floro didn't actually say "not to" in his quote, that was added square brackets to the quote in by Squizz presumably from what he thought Floro was trying to say. Frankly when I first read the quote I thought Floro was trying to say that Johnson prefers to play even when he's not 100% fit (hence why he didn't call him) and I'm wondering still if that is what he meant. In the quote above the "not to" is being attributed to Floro, who's English is not exactly the greatest to begin with..

I don't agree with Floro's decision, but I can't help thinking that something might be inadvertently getting mixed up in the translation (so to speak). Anyway, good at least to see that Johnson appears to being professional about it all.

[Gian-Luca]

17 minutes ago, king1010 said:

 

 

Also something tells me Johnson won't be anywhere near the national team if Floro is still in charge. It's no secret he isn't afraid to "blacklist" players who act/ speak out like Johnson is doing through the media. 

Floro must have the world's thinnest skin if " I disagreed with the decision and we had a good conversation and agreed to disagree.” is something he'd considered to be a poor/petulant attitude or "speaking out" when a player is confronted by reporters.

[BearcatSA]

16 minutes ago, Gian-Luca said:

I'd add that assists stats can sometimes be misleading. For example Osorio doesn't get an assist for drawing a foul that led to a PK goal by Giovinco from a couple of weeks ago, and he's been involved in the build up for a lot more goals than he was officially credited with an assist for (I also don't find,as the other poster was saying, that the league is that generous with handing out two assists - MLS is hardly the NHL in that regard). One of his assets is helping to distribute the ball up the field, advancing his team's play, which is not something that stats are typically kept for.

I thought you could see that with some of the online Opta sites, no?  However, I'm not sure about analytics for movement and positional play without the ball.  That's the stuff you definitely need the eyeball test for.  Or not, so somebody could maybe link me to a specific online example.

With Giovinco out for the next few games, we'll see how changes his game.  He and his teammates will need to up their games.

 

[Zem]

Floro said his team has enough depth in central midfield to accommodate Johnson’s absence in these games. But if the team advances to the Hexagonal round (which begins in November), the TFC man will be right back in the mix.

“Why not? I am very happy with Will. I consider he is a very good player and a very good person,” said Floro. “If he is in good condition, he will be with us, without any question.”

 

I mean I'm not totally confident in the logic behind it, but Floro gave his reason already, not to mention that it wouldn't have been his decision alone. Maybe tinfoil hats are just in style this time of year, but there's no reason to ignore obvious statements which uphold what he said in the first place. It's the exact same situation with Thomas, and yet no one seems to be up in arms about that. All signs point to the CMNT staff just being extremely, perhaps overly, cautious about players who are returning from injury.

We should perhaps consider that earlier this year, Scott Arfield and Julian de Guzman both accepted call-ups for CMNT duty shortly after recovering from injury and then proceeded to re-aggravate their injuries. The decision seems to be simply that there's no point risking Johnson's or Thomas' future health, even if they're healthy enough to play.

[Complete Homer]

10 minutes ago, Zem said:

Floro said his team has enough depth in central midfield to accommodate Johnson’s absence in these games. But if the team advances to the Hexagonal round (which begins in November), the TFC man will be right back in the mix.

“Why not? I am very happy with Will. I consider he is a very good player and a very good person,” said Floro. “If he is in good condition, he will be with us, without any question.”

 

I mean I'm not totally confident in the logic behind it, but Floro gave his reason already, not to mention that it wouldn't have been his decision alone. Maybe tinfoil hats are just in style this time of year, but there's no reason to ignore obvious statements which uphold what he said in the first place. It's the exact same situation with Thomas, and yet no one seems to be up in arms about that. All signs point to the CMNT staff just being extremely, perhaps overly, cautious about players who are returning from injury.

We should perhaps consider that earlier this year, Scott Arfield and Julian de Guzman both accepted call-ups for CMNT duty shortly after recovering from injury and then proceeded to re-aggravate their injuries. The decision seems to be simply that there's no point risking Johnson's or Thomas' future health, even if they're healthy enough to play.

If anything, I think it projects an overconfidence that we will pull through these next 2 games, or perhaps a fear of worsening relations with TFC if Johnson reaggravated. I agree that the decision can certainly be criticized, but the tin foil should go away

[Vince193]

11 minutes ago, Complete Homer said:

If anything, I think it projects an overconfidence that we will pull through these next 2 games, or perhaps a fear of worsening relations with TFC if Johnson reaggravated. I agree that the decision can certainly be criticized, but the tin foil should go away

That depth in MF includes Jamar Dixon and Samuel Piette. I'm not exactly brimming with confidence. I do like Jamar's game though.

[Gian-Luca]

2 hours ago, BearcatSA said:

I thought you could see that with some of the online Opta sites, no?  However, I'm not sure about analytics for movement and positional play without the ball.  That's the stuff you definitely need the eyeball test for.  Or not, so somebody could maybe link me to a specific online example.

With Giovinco out for the next few games, we'll see how changes his game.  He and his teammates will need to up their games.

 

The only one I'm familiar with is the Audi index which is powered by Opta and which, from what I recall, will award points for passes completed in each half of the field (and deduct for errant passes) - but it does not seem to take into account whether a pass was made forwards, backwards, laterally, to the less optimal choice, etc. I think that's where these stats lose a lot of the context. A good example might be from the game on Saturday where I thought Johnson had a weaker game than he normally plays, and yet he topped the Audi Index for TFC (ahead of even Giovinco) and was 2nd only to Piatti on the field in general (the guy who got the winning goal of course). He apparently completed 56 successful passes in Montreal's half of the field, yet I can't recall anything that led to anything dangerous for TFC (unlike a couple of Osorio balls he put into the feet of Giovinco & Altidore). I do remember a lot of lateral passes to Endoh, Bradley, various defenders etc. but given that TFC spent the entire game looking for a goal and half the game up a man, I think its another sign that these Opta stats can be misleading.

That said, Will may not have had his greatest game for TFC on Saturday but I think a less than 100% Will is still  a better choice to have coming off the bench with his leadership, experience and winning mentality than someone unproven like Jamar Dixon who hasn't got much experience internationally and hasn't played at as high a level as MLS in his entire career. Given the importance of these do-or-die games, maybe not the time to experiment, but I didn't coach Real Madrid so what do I know?

[A_Gagne]

7 hours ago, BrennanFan said:

2012 deRo and Simeon are nowhere near the level of Arfield and Hoilett.  

For me, the biggest difference from 2012 is that we are going into our most crucial game with our best attacking players.  I will always wonder what could have been in 2012 with Simpson, Occean and DeRo leading the line.

DeRo was one of the best players in the MLS for better part of a decade and Simpson was one of the best wingers in Turkey in his prime. I'm not sure that they were "nowhere near the level of Arfield and Hoilett". Tough to compare across leagues but both Arfield and Hoilett IMO are relegation premier/upper Championship level players. Not sure that makes them significant upgrades over the crop of players you've mentioned. But the ARE significant upgrades over any other attacking midfielders we have today.

[Obinna]

DeRosario was the only one seemingly capable of creating anything, and Hoilett is very much cut from the same cloth. Junior is better at taking players on, DeRo was more of a threat from distance. I'd call it a draw.

More importantly though, we never had DeRosario in Honduras last cycle. We will have Junior.

Simpson to Arfield? Apples and Oranges I think. I think Simpson was closer to Junior and I think i'd give the nod to Junior. His game is just a little more dynamic than Simpson's was. It's pretty close though. As for Arfield, well I think he's an overall better player than Simpson was. Not as fast obviously, but his touch is cleaner and his technique is arguably better. Again though, different players really.

And I have to stress yet again - we never had Simpson or DeRosario in Honduras, but we will have Arfield and Hoilett.

[Kent]

What gets me most excited about having Hoilett in Honduras isn't his ability to create offensive opportunities, it's his ability to receive an outlet pass and draw a foul. That is a great quality when trying to kill off a game, or to relieve some pressure after some sustained time pinned in our end. It gives a minute for the players to catch a breather in the heat, and allows us to march our players up field and organize ourselves to give us a better chance to possess the ball for a while. I think that has the potential to be huge for us... provided we don't give up 4 goals in the first half.

[BearcatSA]

4 hours ago, Gian-Luca said:

 I do remember a lot of lateral passes to Endoh, Bradley, various defenders etc. but given that TFC spent the entire game looking for a goal and half the game up a man, I think its another sign that these Opta stats can be misleading.

FWIW, for that game, on whoscored.com Johnson was the highest rated TFC mid while Osorio was rated the lowest.

I prefer just to watch my match recording and track one player's individual plays throughout his time on the pitch.  That's the only way I get a decent feel for what a guy's doing out there.

[theaub]

13 hours ago, A_Gagne said:

DeRo was one of the best players in the MLS for better part of a decade and Simpson was one of the best wingers in Turkey in his prime. I'm not sure that they were "nowhere near the level of Arfield and Hoilett". Tough to compare across leagues but both Arfield and Hoilett IMO are relegation premier/upper Championship level players. Not sure that makes them significant upgrades over the crop of players you've mentioned. But the ARE significant upgrades over any other attacking midfielders we have today.

Simeon, not Simpson.

If we had Simpson in 2012 I'd like to think we score at home against Honduras and 8-1 means nothing anyways

 

[A_Gagne]

11 hours ago, theaub said:

Simeon, not Simpson.

If we had Simpson in 2012 I'd like to think we score at home against Honduras and 8-1 means nothing anyways

 

Ah, right... dyslexic moment! 

[Greatest Cockney Rip Off]

On 29 August 2016 at 7:41 PM, cupladrinks said:

Jeff Blair works for sportsnet out of Toronto. Hosts a Jay's/baseball radio show and writes for their website. I have no idea how much he knows about football, but I would bet he didn't know who Dixon was before the roster was released.

I am pretty sure he once mentioned that he supports Manchester United. That says all you need to know about him. I think he is also a fan of the Yankees? Also any time I've ever heard him talk about football, he shown he has a very limited depth of knowledge. 

[Vince193]

11 hours ago, Greatest Cockney Rip Off said:

I am pretty sure he once mentioned that he supports Manchester United. That says all you need to know about him. I think he is also a fan of the Yankees? Also any time I've ever heard him talk about football, he shown he has a very limited depth of knowledge. 

The dude is a supporter of Canadian soccer and often tweets about it to his followers that dwarfs what many in CanSoc media have. Sorry he's not the ideal Canadian soccer supporter but I love that he genuinely loves the game and promotes it. Get off your high horse.

[BuzzAndSting]

2 hours ago, Vince193 said:

The dude is a supporter of Canadian soccer and often tweets about it to his followers that dwarfs what many in CanSoc media have. Sorry he's not the ideal Canadian soccer supporter but I love that he genuinely loves the game and promotes it. Get off your high horse.

Except when he's making back handed insults about our national team players. 

[Vince193]

56 minutes ago, BuzzAndSting said:

Except when he's making back handed insults about our national team players. 

Beggars can't be choosers. The fact that someone with a substantial number of followers (in relation to CanSoc) tweets about Canadian Soccer is fine with me.

[BuzzAndSting]

18 minutes ago, Vince193 said:

Beggars can't be choosers. The fact that someone with a substantial number of followers (in relation to CanSoc) tweets about Canadian Soccer is fine with me.

Yes we can because we deserve better. Guys like Jeff Blair perpetuate Euro snob mentality by putting down a guy because he's never heard of him, which is sad because Jamar has a great story, and because he plays in the NASL. 

[Vince193]

21 minutes ago, BuzzAndSting said:

Yes we can because we deserve better. Guys like Jeff Blair perpetuate Euro snob mentality by putting down a guy because he's never heard of him, which is sad because Jamar has a great story, and because he plays in the NASL. 

And after Canada hyped up their match against Mexico and got embarrassed 3-0 he told people to continue to support Canadian soccer and the program.

[BuzzAndSting]

39 minutes ago, Vince193 said:

And after Canada hyped up their match against Mexico and got embarrassed 3-0 he told people to continue to support Canadian soccer and the program.

What is your point? He said some nice stuff so we should give him a pass? Why? That's the kind of attitude we've put up with for years. Our program and our fans won't get respect until they demand it. Besides there was no reason for Blair to even make the comments he did in making his point about Johnson and Osorio. If he's not intelligent enough to figure that out, forget him.

That's my opinion, if you like him, great. Just don't pump him up as some huge proponent of Canadian football.

[Free kick]

But Dixon has only played in the NASL for one month.  He was in scandinavia (playing for small clubs) for the past four years.  So you cant call Blair a eurosnob.   Unless you follow the fury and have seen their last four games, nobody would have heard of him.  

[BuzzAndSting]

2 hours ago, Free kick said:

But Dixon has only played in the NASL for one month.  He was in scandinavia (playing for small clubs) for the past four years.  So you cant call Blair a eurosnob.   Unless you follow the fury and have seen their last four games, nobody would have heard of him.  

You mean unless you follow the national team and watched his debut in February?

[BCM]

11 hours ago, BuzzAndSting said:

Yes we can because we deserve better. Guys like Jeff Blair perpetuate Euro snob mentality by putting down a guy because he's never heard of him, which is sad because Jamar has a great story, and because he plays in the NASL. 

Do you follow the threads on this site? Most the board are apoplectic about Floro's roster... and Jamar has been the indirect focus (ie Dixon is on the roster and not Johnson!!) Is it a double standard - if you're in the media you can't criticize, but on the voyageurs site you can? That makes no sense, mate.