Roster for September WCQ - News / Discussion

[dyslexic nam]

Others are probably more in the know that I, but I think some may be giving Floro too much credit re signing up the fence sitters.  The WC happens every 4 years, so if you opt out for a cycle while weighing your options, you basically miss any chance of playing in the big show for 1/3 of your pro career.  And for those part way through their career who had to focus for the early part on actually earning a good living (more power to em), they would potentially be opting out for the portion that runs from 33-66% of that career.  Junior is 26, so if he skipped this cycle, the boat may have sailed (England is not likely calling up an uncapped 30 year old).  Airfield is almost 28, so this is his last kick at it.  Ditto for Vittoria (29).  Et cetera.

 

Don't get me wrong - I absolutely LOVE that these guys opted in.  The "Importance" thread didn't hit 976 pages (ish) for nothing.  And admittedly, these guys may have stayed away if the program was a complete clusterfuck, so some minimum standard was definitely required.  But I suspect the timing and the desire to play international footy on the biggest stage, coupled with limited options on how to accomplish that, probably played a bigger role than Floro.

 

Maybe I am breaking some unspoken rule about not complaining about the coach while we are still actively involved in the campaign.  Or maybe I just didn't get enough sleep last night.  I don't know.

[A_Gagne]

7 hours ago, aloyol said:

To help put the players "in the right mindset" for the game, JDG will give an interview on matchday about his brother joining the team for the Hex!

Low blow dude

[BuzzAndSting]

8 hours ago, Rheo said:

Not trying to fan anything but even Jeff Blair doesn't understand the Johnson omission.  I don't understand it but he knows a lot more than me lol.  Hopefully goes well

"Remarkable, isn’t it, that Canadian men’s soccer coach Benito Floro can take a couple of players who are "unattached" (Marcus Haber and Junior Hoilett) while leaving off the likes of Toronto FC’s Will Johnson and Jonathan Osorio, second only to Cyle Larin of Orlando in minutes played by a Canadian player in Major League Soccer this season. OK – Hoilett I can see. But no place for the other two on a team that routinely comes up short while finding a spot for Jamar Dixon? Really? I mean, I guess you can never have too many Ottawa Fury players on your team. Still, who knew Floro could be that picky?"

 

Who the fuck is Jeff Blair and why is he taking shots at players like Jamar? To prove a point because he read a stat somewhere and actually knows nothing about football?

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, BuzzAndSting said:

Who the fuck is Jeff Blair and why is he taking shots at players like Jamar? To prove a point because he read a stat somewhere and actually knows nothing about football?

 

It's not like he is the only one questioning why Jamar Dixon is on the team

[cupladrinks]

9 minutes ago, BuzzAndSting said:

Who the fuck is Jeff Blair and why is he taking shots at players like Jamar? To prove a point because he read a stat somewhere and actually knows nothing about football?

Jeff Blair works for sportsnet out of Toronto. Hosts a Jay's/baseball radio show and writes for their website. I have no idea how much he knows about football, but I would bet he didn't know who Dixon was before the roster was released.

[BuzzAndSting]

12 minutes ago, canta15 said:

It's not like he is the only one questioning why Jamar Dixon is on the team

Well, having looked at his stuff on the Sportsnet website I have no faith in his judgement of anything football related. If someone here or a journo with actual knowledge of Canadian football wants to question Jamar's inclusion I won't judge regardless of whether I agree or not because I respect their opinion.

[Free kick]

34 minutes ago, cupladrinks said:

Jeff Blair works for sportsnet out of Toronto. Hosts a Jay's/baseball radio show and writes for their website. I have no idea how much he knows about football, but I would bet he didn't know who Dixon was before the roster was released.

I only knew (who Jamar Dixon was) by accident.  About 3-4 weeks ago,  I entered the name "Ottawa Fury" in a browser and came accross an article from a small town newspaper in eastern Ontario stating that this local guy had just signed with ottawa.   

You would be excused in my mind for not knowing who he is.

[ob1]

4 hours ago, red card said:

Plus, we have Atiba, Hoillett & Arfield as attacking mid options. If Osorio was good defensively, he could have made the team as a defensive mid.

Ok so what happens if Atiba gets hurt the day before the game, or Hoillett can't go a full 90. What if were down by a goal or 2 at half? we going to bring on Edgar, or perhaps Hainault. 

Ricketts, Jackson, Haber, they are not midfielders who I would rely on getting Larin service. 

4 hours ago, red card said:

From my point of view, he has got the team playing a organized system that we used to play in the 80s and some of the 90s but went away from it in the past 15 years.

Sorry to pick on you, because your certainly not the only one to say this, but please enlighten me here. What is this magical organized system everyone refers too? Is it our defence or our ability to pass the ball backwards?

I just don't see a whole lot of improvement from our team that can be attributed to a coach or a system.

Last time I checked Hart had our team doing exactly the same thing, and if everyone can look past the 8-1 massacre (I know not easy) we had a pretty solid defence in WCQ and we were a tie away from moving on... hell we even had Honduras on goal difference. In 11 WQC games leading to that fateful night we had 3 goals against and scored 23 

Today we are 6 against and have scored only 11 after 8 games.

We hit a post at home against Honduras, and Cuba had a ball cleared off the line in the dying moments against them, they were lucky to make it to that last game, as a team they were not a much better then us.

But they had one thing when it counted that we didn't and I'm not sure we do now, they had a coach who believed in them, a coach who told them to go out and score, the had a coach who instilled a mentality that they can win that game by attacking. 

We are going to park the bus...we may win.. we may tie, we might advance, I certainly hope so.

However I had more optimism 4 years ago going to San Pedro then I do right now. 

 

[cupladrinks]

4 minutes ago, Free kick said:

I only knew (who Jamar Dixon was) by accident.  About 3-4 weeks ago,  I entered the name "Ottawa Fury" in a browser and came accross an article from a small town newspaper in eastern Ontario stating that this local guy had just signed with ottawa.   

You would be excused in my mind for not knowing who he is. Who here had ever heard of him?  And why would we?  Did you know who this  guy was? 

Yes I did know who he was, but only because of similar circumstances to you. I don't claim to know anything about his game. I wouldn't blame anyone for not knowing who he was before the roster was released. I was just speculating that Jeff Blair didn't. For all I know the mans a football genius. However after years of watching/listening to sportsnet I'm conditioned to think otherwise.

[paul-collins]

19 hours ago, red card said:

Well, Osorio is now playing an attacking midfield with TFC. Everyone points out minutes played by Osorio but it isn't quality - no goals this year, only 3 shots on goal and only 3 assists in a league that easily doles out 2 assists. 

it doesn't invalidate your point, but he did score twice in V Cup in the 4-2 win over Montreal.  (doesn't show up on TFC's website, they only have league stats)

[Kent]

20 hours ago, dyslexic nam said:

I tend to disagree with the parts bolded.  We now have a deep talent pool (compared to many cycles) yet our defensive performances have frequently been unremarkable, our offense is struggling in a big way, and we have already thrown away a game that would have given us pretty much a lock to advance to the hex.  If we get to the hex, or [swoon] the World Cup, I suspect a fair number of people will think it was despite Floro, not because of him.

 

So that I don't incur the wrath of the footy gods, I have refrained from posting a new thread, but a part of me wonders of Floro is the guy we would want at the WC even if we do manage to qualify.  A good coach will take the players at his disposal and implement a system that plays to the strengths available.  And while I admit that I am more a fan of the game than a student of it when it comes to formations and tactics, I have seen little that would indicate he has put a unique stamp on the CMNT system.  To me, an almost singular focus on team defense is not something that warrants any special mention.  We have always been goal-challenged.  It has historically been our biggest shortcoming.  Yet even with a striker who is pretty good on the CONCACAF bell curve, and some increasingly good assist-providers, we still haven't solved that particular riddle.

 

Maybe I am just too cynical since I have seen this movie before, but the idea that we will all heap praise on Floro if the players manage to pull out a couple of results seems a bit off the mark.

I agree with you that a lot of people would think any success the team has will be in spite of Floro, rather than as a result of him, but I just thought I'd address those two bolded sections. For the first, if you exclude the Mexico games, we have given up 1 goal in 6 World Cup Qualifiers, and 2 in 9 competitive matches (excluding Mexico) under Floro. Yes I know, bus parked and all that, I just wanted to point out that we have had pretty good results defensively.

As for the goal challenged bit, sure we have Larin now. I'm assuming the good assist providers you are mentioning are probably guys like Arfield, Hoilett, and maybe Tesho? It's worth pointing out that in 2012 we had Simeon Jackson playing in the EPL (even scored a few goals), Olivier Occean was playing in the Bundesliga, and Dwayne De Rosario was the reigning MLS MVP and Golden Boot winner. Despite all those players, in the games excluding Cuba (sure, I am cherry picking a bit) we only scored 2 goals in the semi final round of qualifying in 4 games. DeRo and Hutch caught Panama napping on a quickly taken free kick, and Hume scored a beauty in a game we'd all rather forget. I don't think we have a more high powered offense on paper this cycle than we did last cycle.

[BrennanFan]

2012 deRo and Simeon are nowhere near the level of Arfield and Hoilett.  

For me, the biggest difference from 2012 is that we are going into our most crucial game with our best attacking players.  I will always wonder what could have been in 2012 with Simpson, Occean and DeRo leading the line.

[BearcatSA]

53 minutes ago, BrennanFan said:

2012 deRo and Simeon are nowhere near the level of Arfield and Hoilett.  

I'm curious to see how Hoillet does being that he's not with any club and hasn't had the benefit of a preseason.

[Bully]

Looks like Johnson wanted to be there. And he feels like he is in good physical condition, didn't even speak with Floro. Via Molinaro on twitter. Too bad, I trust Johnson, he is a warrior. 

But.

Floro coached Madrid so Dixon must be a better choice. 

[Addona]

15 minutes ago, Bully said:

Looks like Johnson wanted to be there. And he feels like he is in good physical condition, didn't even speak with Floro. Via Molinaro on twitter. Too bad, I trust Johnson, he is a warrior.

In general, I am ok with the coach's decision ... I mean, I would personally bring Johnson in, but given his injury, it's at least in the realm of plausibility that he wouldn't be a huge upgrade over anyone else who will see the pitch.

The one thing that bothers me is that Will seems like the type of player who will want to redeem himself for what happened 4 years ago down there.  Given that, I think he would have run himself ragged and left every ounce of what he's got on the field.  I feel that JDG would likely have done the same if not injured.  So even though, on paper, neither is a game changer, I regret that they will both miss that opportunity.

[king1010]

45 minutes ago, Bully said:

Looks like Johnson wanted to be there. And he feels like he is in good physical condition, didn't even speak with Floro. Via Molinaro on twitter. Too bad, I trust Johnson, he is a warrior. 

But.

Floro coached Madrid so Dixon must be a better choice. 

how does floro not even give johnson the courtesy of explaining why he wasn't selected? he gets his "staff" to tell johnson that he is not fit. 

yet a couple guys who are unattached are deemed fit by floro. 

how does he judge who is fit and who is not without calling them into camp. double standard to judge johnson as not being fit while guys like hoilett and haber are fit enough to play in honduras. 

 

John MolinaroVerified account‏@JohnMolinaro

Just talked to Will. Said he never talked to Benito. Made himself available for #canMNT. Strictly Benito's call, which Will disagreed with.

 

John Molinaro ‏@JohnMolinaro  2h2 hours ago

So there was no agreement between Will & Benito that he should skip due to fitness. Will said he didn't talk to Benito. He wants to play.

 

John Molinaro ‏@JohnMolinaro  1h1 hour ago

Will Johnson: "I feel great, and that’s the part where I disagree with the decision." #canMNT

[BearcatSA]

30 minutes ago, Addona said:

I feel that JDG would likely have done the same if not injured.  So even though, on paper, neither is a game changer, I regret that they will both miss that opportunity.

Man, I'm not sure I'd be starting him even if he was relatively healthy.  The tread has been wearing off his tires for awhile now and the conditions of San Pedro Sula would do him (and us) no favours. 

[Weather]

http://www.sportsnet.ca/soccer/will-johnson-canada-world-cup-qualfiying-tfc-toronto-fc-mls-benito-floro/

This gets odder and odder.

"

Furthermore, Floro’s statement in the MLSsoccer.com article that Johnson “prefers not to play” is inaccurate, according to the Canadian midfielder.

“I never spoke to Benito, but it was 100 per cent his decision. I’ve never turned down a World Cup qualifier invitation,” Johnson told reporters on Tuesday after TFC’s practice.

"

[BrennanFan]

Lets not make this a bigger deal than it has to be.  Johnson has only been back to playing games for a couple weeks ahead of our biggest game of the year.  This is a reasonable decision by Floro.  Johnson's best quality is that he's a tough tackling 90 minute workhorse, so this type of injury/ recent return will hurt his game more than, lets say a guy like Hoilett, who you can bring on for 25 minutes and can still bring his best attributes into the game.

 

 

[Bully]

Yeah. And calling Henry who is fit? What? Floro is a moron, he's selfish. He does not realize that this is Canada's team, he thinks it is his and his little boy's. Wake up. 

[Guest]

I'm not defending Floro but trying to look at it from his perspective to why he called up Henry/Jakovic and not Johnson. Midfielders often don't have to run as much as defenders so maybe thats why they got called. 

[Obinna]

I'd prefer not to buy into the attention these reporters are looking for.

I'd call Will, but after sleeping on it, I don't think it's crazy to leave him out.

If our chances lay in the hands of a player like Will Johnson, I don't think we belong anywhere near the world cup (no disrespect).

Looking forward to getting our points and seeing him again this November!

[king1010]

30 minutes ago, canta15 said:

I'm not defending Floro but trying to look at it from his perspective to why he called up Henry/Jakovic and not Johnson. Midfielders often don't have to run as much as defenders so maybe thats why they got called. 

Henry starting at right back and not being able to run as wingers blow by him just came to my mind. 

[king1010]

13 minutes ago, Obinna said:

I'd prefer not to buy into the attention these reporters are looking for.

I'd call Will, but after sleeping on it, I don't think it's crazy to leave him out.

If our chances lay in the hands of a player like Will Johnson, I don't think we belong anywhere near the world cup (no disrespect).

Looking forward to getting our points and seeing him again this November!

Maybe not. But at this point we're just trying to get to the HEX. I think a player like Will Johnson is Hex quality. 

 

Also something tells me Johnson won't be anywhere near the national team if Floro is still in charge. It's no secret he isn't afraid to "blacklist" players who act/ speak out like Johnson is doing through the media. 

[Gian-Luca]

7 hours ago, paul-collins said:

it doesn't invalidate your point, but he did score twice in V Cup in the 4-2 win over Montreal.  (doesn't show up on TFC's website, they only have league stats)

I'd add that assists stats can sometimes be misleading. For example Osorio doesn't get an assist for drawing a foul that led to a PK goal by Giovinco from a couple of weeks ago, and he's been involved in the build up for a lot more goals than he was officially credited with an assist for (I also don't find,as the other poster was saying, that the league is that generous with handing out two assists - MLS is hardly the NHL in that regard). One of his assets is helping to distribute the ball up the field, advancing his team's play, which is not something that stats are typically kept for.