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Lucas Cavallini

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ya its classless. but we don't have the abundance of talent on our player pool especially in our striker pool to say to say to a "classless" player who wants to play wcq "we aren't calling you up for WCQ because you didn't play friendlies for us last year"

 

I don't think anyone would lose sleep over us calling a committed striker over Cavallini.  It's not like he is a can't miss player lighting up La Liga.  I wouldn't be upset if Larin or Hamilton took his spot when it mattered if he is gonna dick us around.

 

Lets hope this is just a bogus story.

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Niko Liakopoulos?

Actually i was thinking of Anthony Papaterpos, but he didn't stick with them. Josh Portillo was the fourth kid down there.

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Similar to the Will Johnson thread I can't believe some of the negativity towards Cavillini.

 

We have no idea what happens behind the scenes with the CSA and our MNT pool of players. There's a multitude of reasons why a player would not play in meaningless friendlies half way around the world. Wait till Lucas misses and important GC or qualification game and then start throwing out insults.

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Similar to the Will Johnson thread I can't believe some of the negativity towards Cavillini.

 

We have no idea what happens behind the scenes with the CSA and our MNT pool of players. There's a multitude of reasons why a player would not play in meaningless friendlies half way around the world. Wait till Lucas misses and important GC or qualification game and then start throwing out insults.

It is true we don't know why we haven't seen him in the last couple of years or whether he will come to the next friendlies. However, in my books he is a real borderline callup for us who should not be called for GC or WCQ unless he is playing and playing well in some of these meaningless friendlies and training camps. Because the way I see the reality of Cavallini is he is almost 22 and playing in a low level league and scoring goals against defending and keeping that is below NASL standards (a couple of teams excepted) and where most of the players who amount to anything have already left by the time they are 20. 

 

And to confirm my impression of the poor level of the league that I have from watching games and highlights, the Impact's former striker Santiago Gonzalez recently returned to the league and has played 210 minutes in 4 games and already has 1 goal. In his previous stint in this league he had 5 goals in 14 games. Yet with the Impact he was not only far below the level of the regular players of the worst team in the MLS but was well below the level of any of our academy players who made their debuts this year.

 

So in my books Cavallini should have been jumping through hoops to try and play for the national team in the last couple of years both for exposure and for developing his game. Even though I don't rate Miller very high as a coach for sure he could learn a lot playing and training with guys like Atiba and DeRo. If I were Floro if Cavallini is turning down calls for friendlies I would not bring him in when the serious competitions start because he has proven nothing as a professional yet and needs to win a spot and show he is better than the alternatives at striker if he is to deserve a national team callup.

Edited by Grizzly

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I resent the term "meaningless friendlies". When you're a 100+ ranked team trying to drag its ass out of the international footballing basement and is restructuring, learning a new system, and trying to build an actual team there is no such thing as a "meaningless friendly". Any of the handful of opportunities we have to actually get our players together and play a match shouldn't be meaningless to anyone who cares about the success of their country. 

 

How can we expect success at the "meaningful" matches if they are the first time our first team actually deems it worthwhile to show up.

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I don't really care that much about him if he is going to snub Canada. Anyhow between Larin, Akindele (Assuming), Hamilton, and the veterans like Ricketts, I'm not too worried about the striker pool.

That's hilarious! Canada has only scored 15 goals since 2012 (25 games) and only 9 of those were from strikers, 4 by Ricketts. Canada's striker pool is anything but worry-free, especially since you listed 3 unproven youngsters. We need all the help we can get up top 

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It is true we don't know why we haven't seen him in the last couple of years or whether he will come to the next friendlies. However, in my books he is a real borderline callup for us who should not be called for GC or WCQ unless he is playing and playing well in some of these meaningless friendlies and training camps. Because the way I see the reality of Cavallini is he is almost 22 and playing in a low level league and scoring goals against defending and keeping that is below NASL standards (a couple of teams excepted) and where most of the players who amount to anything have already left by the time they are 20. 

 

And to confirm my impression of the poor level of the league that I have from watching games and highlights, the Impact's former striker Santiago Gonzalez recently returned to the league and has played 210 minutes in 4 games and already has 1 goal. In his previous stint in this league he had 5 goals in 14 games. Yet with the Impact he was not only far below the level of the regular players of the worst team in the MLS but was well below the level of any of our academy players who made their debuts this year.

 

So in my books Cavallini should have been jumping through hoops to try and play for the national team in the last couple of years both for exposure and for developing his game. Even though I don't rate Miller very high as a coach for sure he could learn a lot playing and training with guys like Atiba and DeRo. If I were Floro if Cavallini is turning down calls for friendlies I would not bring him in when the serious competitions start because he has proven nothing as a professional yet and needs to win a spot and show he is better than the alternatives at striker if he is to deserve a national team callup.

I am prone to agree with you here - Uruguay is not a strong league and at 22 he should have already scored tons of goals with Nacional and moved on to greener pastures. The story of Gonzalez seems to echo that sentiment, but my first two thoughts after reading this were 1. Sabastian Fernandez and 2. Nicolas Mezquida.

 

I can't claim to have watched either in Uruguay but Fernandez apparently scored 4 goals in 14 appearances for Danubio back in 2012, while Mezquida had 1 goal in 14 appearances with Fenix from 2012 to 2013.

 

MLS-wise, their numbers this season are 2 goals in 7 appearances (Mezquida) and 3 goals in 15 appearances (Fernandez). BTW, Mezquida and Cavallini are the same age, while Fernandez is 3 years older. Neither are tearing it up... but they aren't exactly "Gonzalez-esque" failures either.

 

So considering this, perhaps we ought to give Cavallini a bit more credit? His scoring record with Fenix so far is 8 goals in 19 matches, while his tally at Juventud was 10 goals in 25 matches back in 2012-2013. Those numbers are clearly superior to the Whitecap lads, so i'd argue Cavallini would more than hold his own...in the MLS at least.

Edited by Obinna

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Fernandez has been dismal: one goal per six games while playing almost exclusively at forward and very few assists as well. He would not be playing if Vancouver had anybody else. Mezquida has barely seen the field and not looked anything particularly special while he has. 

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I am prone to agree with you here - Uruguay is not a strong league and at 22 he should have already scored tons of goals with Nacional and moved on to greener pastures. The story of Gonzalez seems to echo that sentiment, but my first two thoughts after reading this were 1. Sabastian Fernandez and 2. Nicolas Mezquida.

 

I can't claim to have watched either in Uruguay but Fernandez apparently scored 4 goals in 14 appearances for Danubio back in 2012, while Mezquida had 1 goal in 14 appearances with Fenix from 2012 to 2013.

 

MLS-wise, their numbers this season are 2 goals in 7 appearances (Mezquida) and 3 goals in 15 appearances (Fernandez). BTW, Mezquida and Cavallini are the same age, while Fernandez is 3 years older. Neither are tearing it up... but they aren't exactly "Gonzalez-esque" failures either.

 

So considering this, perhaps we ought to give Cavallini a bit more credit? His scoring record with Fenix so far is 8 goals in 19 matches, while his tally at Juventud was 10 goals in 25 matches back in 2012-2013. Those numbers are clearly superior to the Whitecap lads, so i'd argue Cavallini would more than hold his own...in the MLS at least.

Actually Fernandez has 3 goals in 29 appearances this year so not very impressive stats. Mezquida has 2 goals in 13 appearances.  Both were also playing in foreign leagues by Cavallini's age, Fernandez played in Peru and Mexico and Mezquida in Norway (though neither were overly successful there).

 

I am not saying Cavallini won't turn into something but I think his accomplishments and potential have been vastly overrated so far. He is scoring in a league similar in level to the Finnish league with worse defending/keeping. In my opinion a guy playing at that level should be begging for national team experience not turning down call ups. He really needs to be showing up to friendlies to win a spot because if he does not he should not be called until he starts playing at a higher level. And so far he seems to be the least deserving "Canadian Soccer Jesus" on this forum.

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Neither Fernandez nor Mezquida have been particularly successful in Uruguay. Fernandez scored 7 goals in 29 top flight matches, Mezquida scored no goals in 8 matches -although the latter was a fairly highly touted youth player. I would take either of these guys for Canada, as both have great skills and still some potential in MLS. The reality is that even a below average MLS player is likely a good player for us. I think Cavallini would be an above average MLS player as his attributes that are successful in Uruguay would bring a similar level of success here. MLS also has shocking defending and Lucas is exactly the pitbull striker VWFC could use in a 4-4-2 diamond or 4-2-3-1.

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According to the stats I have seen Fernandez scored 8 goals in 42 matches in Uruguay first division. However, if we divide it into seasons he had a very poor debut season but the second season he scored 5 goals in 14 games before transferring to Mexico so I would not say he was unsuccessful in Uruguay. Mezquida scored 1 goal in 14 matches.

 

As to whether MLS has shocking defending or not, it depends what you compare it to. Compared to the top Euro leagues the defending is poor but I would not call it shocking. I have often compared MLS to the 2nd Bundesliga and that is where I would place its defending level. The Uruguayan league's defending would be about 4th division level in Germany. Many of the goals I see Cavallini score are against such weak defending it looks like he is playing semi-pro. Possibly he has the skills to raise his game against a higher level of play such as MLS or national team but until I see that I am not going to assume that he can.

 

And yes we have very poor depth so some of these below average players could probably still be useful to our national team but only as a stopgap until we get develop some real international players in each position. I think Felipe is a below average MLS player who is better than the two players we are talking about who would still be useful for our national team. But we will never do anything internationally until we have at least all starting positions filled by solid MLS players or better.

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I agree with the assessment on the relative defensive weakness of the Uruguayan league, but there is no way we can pass on calling Cavallini due to him being 'unproven'.  

 

How many professional players do we have who score goals?  Not many.  Beggars cant be choosers.  

 

Further, Cavallini is doing what he needs to do to get to the next level.  His job is to score goals against whatever opposition he is playing against, and he is doing that.  At this rate, he will be up at Nacional next year and then he will be playing in the Copa Libertadores against the best in South America, this would be the highest level of any Canadian striker since Radz played Champions league. He scores goals there, then the sky is the limit for him.  He is better off at Fenix than NASL or MLS regardless of what the level of the opposition is.

 

I have lots of time for Cavallini and I am expecting big things from him.  That being said, if Lucas is going to be our main guy up top for the next cycle, he has to start coming to camps and learning Floro's system.   

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That's more than fair. It rubs me the wrong way when our players think they are above being called for friendlies. I can tolerate declining the odd call up here or there, but when it becomes a pattern I believe it shows a lack of respect for our program. If anyone thinks they are too good for our friendlies than fine, no hard feelings or judgement. Just don't expect an automatic call-up when the games matter.\

 

For the record I am not saying that Cavallini thinks he is too good for us. I am simply saying he needs to earn his keep like the others in the pool.

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I think we should call him for friendlies and camps but if he is not showing up for those he should not be getting an invite to official matches. He needs to earn his place. 

 

+1

 

No one here is saying he should be passed on.  If he passes on us then yes he should be passed on.  Inserting a Uruguayan league striker at the last minute for a key match isn't going to make it for us and in fact it may break us if we have team cohesion in the build up.

 

Never forget that the most prolific striker in Canadian history was a guy who never reached the top level... Ali Gerba.  Gerba was successful because he simply fit in our system and finished chances when they came to him.   

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I wish I could find the thread on here from a long while back where some suggested that Jono de Guzman (and/or maybe Hoillet) should only have to show up for the important matches, like qualifiers.  Glad to see that things have changed.

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I'm sorry, but I find it quite funny that some on here are criticizing a league that has produced the likes of Luis Suarez, Sebastian Abreu, Edinson Cavani, Alvaro Recoba, Diego Lugano - as being on par to the likes of the Finnish League. Also, a league that has won the Copa Libertadores (South America's UEFA Champions League) on 8 occasions - even having Defensor Sporting (non super-power after Nacional and Penarol) make it all the way to the Semi-Finals of the 2014 Copa Libertadores. I truly believe that you are underestimating the Uruguayan league. Yes, its not as popular or respected like the Brazilian or Argentinean leagues, but it is not a bad league.

 

As for Cavallini, we know for a fact that he turned down an invite for the Gold Cup back in Colin Miller's days. I don't know for sure, but from what I understand, that was something that the CSA did not take well... so am sure that is playing a factor into his non-call ups.

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I'm sorry, but I find it quite funny that some on here are criticizing a league that has produced the likes of Luis Suarez, Sebastian Abreu, Edinson Cavani, Alvaro Recoba, Diego Lugano - as being on par to the likes of the Finnish League. Also, a league that has won the Copa Libertadores (South America's UEFA Champions League) on 8 occasions - even having Defensor Sporting (non super-power after Nacional and Penarol) make it all the way to the Semi-Finals of the 2014 Copa Libertadores. I truly believe that you are underestimating the Uruguayan league. Yes, its not as popular or respected like the Brazilian or Argentinean leagues, but it is not a bad league.

 

As for Cavallini, we know for a fact that he turned down an invite for the Gold Cup back in Colin Miller's days. I don't know for sure, but from what I understand, that was something that the CSA did not take well... so am sure that is playing a factor into his non-call ups.

Well they should pull their heads out of their asses because we are in no position for grudges.

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I'm sorry, but I find it quite funny that some on here are criticizing a league that has produced the likes of Luis Suarez, Sebastian Abreu, Edinson Cavani, Alvaro Recoba, Diego Lugano - as being on par to the likes of the Finnish League.

 

 

 

Ok let's have a look then. Suarez left the league after 1 season at age 18. Abreu started his career in Mexico and then had 1 season in Urguay before he took off to the Segunda Division in Spain (!). Cavani did play in Urugay, for 2 whole seasons that is before he left the country aged 18. Recoba is now 38 and is playing in the Primera Division. How many players do you know aged 38 play in a top league in the world? He played 2 seasons in Uruguay before joining Inter at age 19. Finally, Diego Lugano did play 4 seasons in Uruguay before becoming an reasonably accepted player at Sao Paolo and Fenerbace, before he failed at PSG, Malaga and West Brom. 

 

 

 Also, a league that has won the Copa Libertadores (South America's UEFA Champions League) on 8 occasions - even having Defensor Sporting (non super-power after Nacional and Penarol) make it all the way to the Semi-Finals of the 2014 Copa Libertadores. I truly believe that you are underestimating the Uruguayan league. Yes, its not as popular or respected like the Brazilian or Argentinean leagues, but it is not a bad league.

 

 

You might have a point there. Or do you? The last time Penarol won a CL was in 87, Nacional in 88 and those were the only 2 clubs to have won all of those 8 cups (in the old days that is). 

 

Now for your last point, Defensor reaching the semi-finals of the 2014 Copa. Very strong run that saw them beating the likes of Universidad de Chile (Chile), Real Garcilaso (Peru), The Strongest (Bolivia) and Atletico Nacional. In fact, the only real strong opposition they had was in the group stage when the faced Cruzeiro (beat them 2-0 at home at tied 2-2 in Brazil. 

 

That really is a strong run for that particular club, but hardly proves the league is strong overall. In fact, they were beaten in that semi-final by Nacional from Paraguay. I hope you're not suggesting the Paraguayan Primera Division is s strong league as well with 50% of the teams hailing from one city (Asuncion). Btw they lost in the finals.

Edited by shamrock

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Ok let's have a look then. Suarez left the league after 1 season at age 18. Abreu started his career in Mexico and then had 1 season in Urguay before he took off to the Segunda Division in Spain (!). Cavani did play in Urugay, for 2 whole seasons that is before he left the country aged 18. Recoba is now 38 and is playing in the Primera Division. How many players do you know aged 38 play in a top league in the world? He played 2 seasons in Uruguay before joining Inter at age 19. Finally, Diego Lugano did play 4 seasons in Uruguay before becoming an reasonably accepted player at Sao Paolo and Fenerbace, before he failed at PSG, Malaga and West Brom. 

 

 

 

 

You might have a point there. Or do you? The last time Penarol won a CL was in 87, Nacional in 88 and those were the only 2 clubs to have won all of those 8 cups (in the old days that is). 

 

Now for your last point, Defensor reaching the semi-finals of the 2014 Copa. Very strong run that saw them beating the likes of Universidad de Chile (Chile), Real Garcilaso (Peru), The Strongest (Bolivia) and Atletico Nacional. In fact, the only real strong opposition they had was in the group stage when the faced Cruzeiro (beat them 2-0 at home at tied 2-2 in Brazil. 

 

That really is a strong run for that particular club, but hardly proves the league is strong overall. In fact, they were beaten in that semi-final by Nacional from Paraguay. I hope you're not suggesting the Paraguayan Primera Division is s strong league as well with 50% of the teams hailing from one city (Asuncion). Btw they lost in the finals.

Those are all valid points, but I get the impression that the Uruguayan league is a step up from Finland. A small step up, but a step nonetheless.

 

Also, for what it's worth, I once stumbled upon a thread on big soccer that ranked all the South American leagues. The thread interchanged from English to Spanish so I presume these were Latin American's giving their opinion based on observation. I am too lazy to find the thread again, but there was a general consensus that went like this:

 

1. Argentina

2. Brazil

*3. Mexico (yes - this entered the conversation at one point)

4. Colombia

5. Uruguay

6. Chile

7. Ecuador

8. Paraguay

9. Peru

10. Bolivia

11. Venezuela 

 

So... take that for what you will.

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