CNL: Jamaica vs Canada - Saturday, November 18th - 10:30am EST / 7:30am Pacific - Kingston, Jamaica

[El Diego]

Overall, I was very pleased with this match and am very confident heading into the home leg. I am quite surprised at much of the negative sentiment in this thread (though I did not ready every single comment). I was quite negative after the Japan match to both the players and Biello, but I was encouraged after this one.

First thing, the match was played in odd circumstances. They had to wait an extra night, the weather looked really hot (even by Jamaica standards), and the pitch was a disaster. True, Jamaica had to deal with the same issues, but I do think that the home team is better equipped to handle stuff like that.

I was pleasantly surprised that Biello switched to a 4-4-2. He made some big decisions in the full back areas that I think worked for the most part. I think his thinking was that the wide areas is where the game would be won and lost with pace so he doubled up with athletes on each side. That's not exactly how it went down, but choosing Laryea over AJ was brave. At centre back, I commented that Biello painted himself into starting Vitoria by not giving Cornelius the full match. I hate to say, but the Jamaica match has me even more convinced that Vitoria is fully cooked. I am surprised Jamaica could not take more of an advantage of him. In a way, I really admire Vitoria -- he somehow finds a way to contribute at this stage of his career where he has the acceleration of a tortoise and the agility of a refrigerator. It helped a lot that Miller, another guy I was quite critical of, had a really good match. I think he works better in a back four.

Eustaquio was brilliant even beyond the goal. I can't believe that I am reading in places that people were disappointed in him. Kone was up and down again. I am fine with giving him the opportunity to be the starter beside Eustaquio because his ceiling does remain so high and we don't have any other slam dunk options in that position, but he can easily lose us a match with his (lack of) awareness.

Larin and David was another big decision by Biello that worked. Some people here were saying we shouldn't start them both due to their club form. I don't think Biello ever actually considered benching one. I also don't get the people that say these two guys don't work well together. As far as two strikers go, they actually combine relatively often. They also work off of each other's runs. Two strikers don't usually combine that often and they don't really have to, but we've actually seen these two set each other up directly for goals. I'm not saying you have to play both these guys as out and out nines every time, but all things considered they play quite well together.

One quick comment about the Jamaica goal -- there was nothing improper about the refereeing for the restart. She signaled a foul, gave two quick whistles and told the Jamaican player to back the ball up (the foul was for a pull Kone gave before the challenge for the ball) and moved to her spot. At no point did she turn it into a ceremonial free kick and at no point did she indicate that there would be a whistle to restart. The free kick was near half for God's sake. This was just an example of Canada's tactical naivety, not poor refereeing.

[RS]

15 hours ago, dyslexic nam said:

Definitely not intervening in the adorable pissing match between you two but that was funny.   

There’s no pissing match. 

Jeffrey (who doesn’t want people using his real name on here but continues to use others’) just can’t handle a small correction that was ultimately harmless.

Notice he didn’t actually tell me I was wrong about Hoilett coming on at the same time as Osorio. Just some bullshit about TFC as usual.

I do find it funny that I constantly get accused of having a club bias on here by the guy who once called TFC (I’m paraphrasing) the most ethically-corrupt club in North America, despite supporting an organization that covered up multiple sexual abuse crimes spanning several years.

And, to an obviously much lesser extent, vociferously advocated for Russell Teibert to the MNT over Osorio during Osorio’s most productive years.

Looking forward to seeing Jeff lose his shit when the next TFC player gets called up to the MNT. Meanwhile, I’m genuinely annoyed that Ali Ahmed didn’t see any time against Jamaica last week because I think his play style would’ve been welcome in a match like that.

That’s just how it goes on this board. Where Jeff can get likes for calling an active MNT player a “lifeless cadaver” simply because those people don’t like me.

[dyslexic nam]

1 hour ago, RS said:

There’s no pissing match. 

Jeffrey (who doesn’t want people using his real name on here but continues to use others’) just can’t handle a small correction that was ultimately harmless.

Notice he didn’t actually tell me I was wrong about Hoilett coming on at the same time as Osorio. Just some bullshit about TFC as usual.

I do find it funny that I constantly get accused of having a club bias on here by the guy who once called TFC (I’m paraphrasing) the most ethically-corrupt club in North America, despite supporting an organization that covered up multiple sexual abuse crimes spanning several years.

And, to an obviously much lesser extent, vociferously advocated for Russell Teibert to the MNT over Osorio during Osorio’s most productive years.

Looking forward to seeing Jeff lose his shit when the next TFC player gets called up to the MNT. Meanwhile, I’m genuinely annoyed that Ali Ahmed didn’t see any time against Jamaica last week because I think his play style would’ve been welcome in a match like that.

That’s just how it goes on this board. Where Jeff can get likes for calling an active MNT player a “lifeless cadaver” simply because those people don’t like me.

For the record I have nothing whatsoever against you.   I just thought it was funny jab.  

[RS]

2 minutes ago, dyslexic nam said:

For the record I have nothing whatsoever against you.   I just thought it was funny jab.  

Yeah, I was talking about the other people who "liked" it.

I knew from your post that you just thought it was funny.

[BearcatSA]

1 hour ago, El Diego said:

She signaled a foul, gave two quick whistles and told the Jamaican player to back the ball up (the foul was for a pull Kone gave before the challenge for the ball) and moved to her spot. At no point did she turn it into a ceremonial free kick and at no point did she indicate that there would be a whistle to restart. The free kick was near half for God's sake. This was just an example of Canada's tactical naivety, not poor refereeing.

The highlighted part is why the whistle was needed before the kick could be taken.  They already had already taken a quick free kick which Penso had called back because it was too far forward.

From the laws of the game:

"The whistle is needed to ... restart play for:
free kicks when the appropriate distance is required "

They didn't have their appropriate distance when they took their first quick free kick, so they needed to wait for the whistle the second time around. 

[El Diego]

13 minutes ago, BearcatSA said:

The highlighted part is why the whistle was needed before the kick could be taken.  They already had already taken a quick free kick which Penso had called back because it was too far forward.

From the laws of the game:

"The whistle is needed to ... restart play for:
free kicks when the appropriate distance is required "

They didn't have their appropriate distance when they took their first quick free kick, so they needed to wait for the whistle the second time around. 

That part refers to when appropriate distance is required to be given by the defending team i.e. if a Canadian player was not respecting 10 yards. "Appropriate distance" does not refer to ensuring the ball is placed where the offence occured.

[BearcatSA]

10 hours ago, El Diego said:

That part refers to when appropriate distance is required to be given by the defending team i.e. if a Canadian player was not respecting 10 yards. "Appropriate distance" does not refer to ensuring the ball is placed where the offence occured.

They took a quick free kick and it was called back because it was deemed (rightly) that it was not an appropriate distance from the original foul.  That's why it is worded as such in the Laws of the Game.    The next one would have to restart on the whistle.

 

Edited November 21, 2023 by BearcatSA

[El Diego]

3 minutes ago, BearcatSA said:

They took a quick free kick and it was called back because it was deemed (rightly) that it was not an appropriate distance from the original foul.  That's why it is worded as such in the Laws of the Game.    The next one would has to restart on the whistle.

The placement of the ball for a free kick is covered in Law 13:

"2. Procedure All free kicks are taken from the place where the offence occurred, except:

• indirect free kicks to the attacking team for an offence inside the opponents’ goal area are taken from the nearest point on the goal area line which runs parallel to the goal line

• free kicks to the defending team in their goal area may be taken from anywhere in that area Free Kicks

• free kicks for offences involving a player entering, re-entering or leaving the field of play without permission are taken from the position of the ball when play was stopped. However, if a player commits an offence off the field of play, play is restarted with a free kick taken on the boundary line nearest to where the offence occurred; for direct free kick offences, a penalty kick is awarded if this is within the offender’s penalty area

• where the Law designates another position (see Laws 3, 11, 12)"

For a free kick for a foul in the middle of the pitch there is no "appropriate distance" from the original foul, there is one correct position: where the foul occurred. Again, "appropriate distance" refers to defenders being required to be 10 yards away. This is commonly called a "ceremonial free kick". These are the ones where the referee counts off the 10 yards because the attacking team requested it or because they want to for whatever reason (it is close to goal, they gave a yellow, etc.).

Further in the section you are citing:

"The whistle is NOT needed to:

• restart play from:

• most free kicks, and a goal kick, corner kick, throw-in or dropped ball"

and

"If the referee wants the player(s) to wait for the whistle before restarting play (e.g. when ensuring that defending players are 9.15m (10 yd) from the ball at a free kick) the referee must clearly inform the attacking player(s) to wait for the whistle."

[BearcatSA]

7 hours ago, El Diego said:

Further in the section you are citing:

"The whistle is NOT needed to:

• restart play from:

• most free kicks, and a goal kick, corner kick, throw-in or dropped ball"

and

"If the referee wants the player(s) to wait for the whistle before restarting play (e.g. when ensuring that defending players are 9.15m (10 yd) from the ball at a free kick) the referee must clearly inform the attacking player(s) to wait for the whistle."

"Tori!  You said 'whistle'! Tori!"  That's what you can hear from one of the Canadian players (might have been Eustaquio?) from the field microphones.  So, after calling back the incorrectly taken first Jamaican free kick because it was too far advanced from the foul location, was it unclear as to her communication to both teams for conditions of the retake?  That's what I am unsure of on this one.

(Granted, our guys might have just been dark art-ing a con on this one simply to cover for switching off.  Someone should ask about it at the pregame presser.)  

Otherwise, I personally love quick free kicks and on first glance I thought it was a great play by Johnson and I only wondered if it was offside or not. 

I'll leave it at that.

 

Edited November 21, 2023 by BearcatSA

[The Beaver 2.0]

On 11/18/2023 at 2:56 PM, grigorio said:

Makes you wonder of this is a one-off cause of pitch conditions or if not shooting from distance was some sort of Herdman tactical thing 🤔 

It was certainly noticeable, which makes you wonder if it was a deliberate tactic.

[SpursFlu]

4 hours ago, BearcatSA said:

"Tori!  You said 'whistle'! Tori!"  That's what you can hear from one of the Canadian players (might have been Eustaquio?) from the field microphones.  So, after calling back the incorrectly taken first Jamaican free kick because it was too far advanced from the foul location, was it unclear as to her communication to both teams for conditions of the retake?  That's what I am unsure of on this one.

(Granted, our guys might have just been dark art-ing a con on this one simply to cover for switching off.  Someone should ask about it at the pregame presser.)  

Otherwise, I personally love quick free kicks and on first glance I thought it was a great play by Johnson and I only wondered if it was offside or not. 

I'll leave it at that.

 

Typically when it's brought back it's then on the whistle isn't it? Plus Borjan the team and the bench all were saying it was supposed to be on the whistle 

Edited November 21, 2023 by SpursFlu

[BearcatSA]

21 minutes ago, SpursFlu said:

Typically when it's brought back it's then on the whistle isn't it? Plus Borjan the team and the bench all were saying it was supposed to be on the whistle 

Neil Davidson or another journo can ask about it at a pre-game presser.  

[SthMelbRed]

When I give my pre-match brief to teams, I always tell them that it's at the attacking team's discretion whether they want to 10-yard distance counted out, or if they prefer to take it quickly. This is a constant misreading of the LotG by many defenders and goalkeepers, assuming that they can ask for the distance to be marked so the defensive wall can be set. If the attacking team doesn't take a quick free kick, I will ask them if they want the distance counted. If they don't, I tell them to proceed when they're ready. If they do, I tell them they have to wait until I've whistled, which I'll only do after I've marked the distance and moved into position, myself. I've only seen the highlights of the game, but, if the referee pushed our defending wall back, then allowed Jamaica to take the kick without a whistle, than she's done a poor job and our guys are right to be aggrieved. If she didn't count the distance, then they are at fault for not being alert to the quick take.

[gigi riva]

Saturdays win was a big boost for Canadian Soccer  and boy oh boy it really needed it . Let's face it has been a lousy year both on and off the field , Men and Women, after the last few years of   progress , we have had a down year  I guess that happens to everyone including the big Nations Like a Italy and a Germany. 

  As far as  Tuesday goes I got my fingers crossed and I am somewhat confident . CXopa America will be a mmassive boost for both the CSA and Soccer in General here in Canada

[SpursFlu]

1 hour ago, SthMelbRed said:

When I give my pre-match brief to teams, I always tell them that it's at the attacking team's discretion whether they want to 10-yard distance counted out, or if they prefer to take it quickly. This is a constant misreading of the LotG by many defenders and goalkeepers, assuming that they can ask for the distance to be marked so the defensive wall can be set. If the attacking team doesn't take a quick free kick, I will ask them if they want the distance counted. If they don't, I tell them to proceed when they're ready. If they do, I tell them they have to wait until I've whistled, which I'll only do after I've marked the distance and moved into position, myself. I've only seen the highlights of the game, but, if the referee pushed our defending wall back, then allowed Jamaica to take the kick without a whistle, than she's done a poor job and our guys are right to be aggrieved. If she didn't count the distance, then they are at fault for not being alert to the quick take.

But there was a whistle to stop the initial quick take. Didn't that likely happen because she was preparing to count out 10 yards? Once you blow the whistle to stop play. It can't or typically wouldn't restart until a whistle?

[SthMelbRed]

25 minutes ago, SpursFlu said:

But there was a whistle to stop the initial quick take. Didn't that likely happen because she was preparing to count out 10 yards? Once you blow the whistle to stop play. It can't or typically wouldn't restart until a whistle?

Not true. Play is almost always started following a whistle without a second whistle. For example, if there's a foul, the referee whistles. The free kick, in most circumstances, is taken without the need for a further whistle. If a player is taking liberties with the position of a throw-in or free kick, the referee will whistle to prevent them gaining an unfair advantage. Once the ball is returned to the correct position, the play usually restarts after the referee has given verbal confirmation that the position is now correct. No whistle.

Regarding the Jamaica goal, none of the replays that I've seen go further back than the actual free kick being played forward into the box. However, from the referee's position and demeanour at that point, I can't see anything suggesting that a whistle was required. There was no wall to count back and she hadn't raised her whistle as the universal signal that play could only resume once she blew.

[SpursFlu]

33 minutes ago, SthMelbRed said:

Not true. Play is almost always started following a whistle without a second whistle. For example, if there's a foul, the referee whistles. The free kick, in most circumstances, is taken without the need for a further whistle. If a player is taking liberties with the position of a throw-in or free kick, the referee will whistle to prevent them gaining an unfair advantage. Once the ball is returned to the correct position, the play usually restarts after the referee has given verbal confirmation that the position is now correct. No whistle.

Regarding the Jamaica goal, none of the replays that I've seen go further back than the actual free kick being played forward into the box. However, from the referee's position and demeanour at that point, I can't see anything suggesting that a whistle was required. There was no wall to count back and she hadn't raised her whistle as the universal signal that play could only resume once she blew.

Ok I was just kinda curious about the whistle being required or at discretion of the ref after it being called back. Thanks

Either way I'm not to worried about it since we won. It just seemed like there were too many Canadian players adamant that ref indicated wait for the whistle for them to be making that up. But all good

[anthony7]

On 11/18/2023 at 1:13 PM, anthony7 said:

Are you actually that naive? Jamaica has an excellent coach. Also, Jamaica has plenty of players PLAYING in Tier 1 leagues. You better brace yourself for Tuesday because a loss is very likely.

DAMN WHAT DO YOU KNOW? DIDN’T THIS AGE WELL. I GUESS WE AIN’T LAUGHING AT ME NO MORE? LOL!!!

[anthony7]

On 11/18/2023 at 1:01 PM, boris4c said:

On another day we win 3-0. Or Jamaica wins 3-0.

But based on what we saw today there is no reason to believe we will lose to Jamaica at BMO. Let alone 3-1. 

Bud, we should have lost 4-2 to be exact. lol!

[anthony7]

On 11/18/2023 at 12:49 PM, dyslexic nam said:

I would have loved 3-1 and a solid cushion going back to Toronto but before kick off I would have take a draw so definitely happy with the win- even if it required some luck.   But if you factor in the ref-gifted goal to them it was pretty balanced when you consider 90 minutes.  

We will get it done at home.  The boys will be fired up, in comfortable and familiar surroundings, and will have had a few more days to build the chemistry back up.   They are likely still without two danger-guys and didn’t show much other than hoofing a few long balls over the top.   

Still think will get it done at home? Jamaica should have won 4-2.

[anthony7]

On 11/18/2023 at 1:17 PM, RS said:

Give it a rest.

Ya bro, I don’t think I should give it a rest. Maybe next time you should all wake up when someone is spitting facts.

[RS]

49 minutes ago, anthony7 said:

Ya bro, I don’t think I should give it a rest. Maybe next time you should all wake up when someone is spitting facts.

Are you a supposed Canadian supporter, on a Canadian soccer supporters site, gloating about a Canadian loss?

This doesn’t end well for you.

[MtlMario]

There isn't more more to be said 🤬😭