CNL: Jamaica vs Canada - Saturday, November 18th - 10:30am EST / 7:30am Pacific - Kingston, Jamaica

[Olympique_de_Marseille]

Jamaica vs Canada
CONCACAF Nations League Quarterfinals , Match 1 of 2
Saturday, November 18, 2023
10:30am Eastern (and local) / 7:30am Pacific
National Stadium at Independence Park (aka "The Office")
Kingston, Jamaica

Broadcast in Canada:
ONESOCCER (live - online)

Broadcast in Jamaica or elsewhere:
TBD

Canada's roster:

Changes: Cavallini out and Russell-Rowe in.

Starting XI

 

Jamaica's roster:

Starting XI

http://www.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=pfbid02AJRg4Hkr5ZLwCe6p5F4nG6P65YPHBJBkK6kV7fkRySYsJSHLKnjMTD9nwPXkDeBKl&id=100044273564081

 

The referee:

 

 

Weather:
After the game was delayed by 15½ hours due to heavy rainfall, the new weather is ~30°C and mostly sunny. ☀️

 

Created the thread early by popular request ( @Kadenge )

Edited November 18, 2023 by Olympique_de_Marseille

[Kadenge]

Our ability to score during WCQ with Larin & David was a big reason why we finished top of the Octo. With our strikers ice cold, where are goals vs Jamaica going to come from? After his spell at coaching our U23 & U20 Biello doesn't come across as someone that  makes bold moves, but clearly we need some changes either in the squad (unlikely) or formation.  My preference would be to tweak the squad a bit. There's  no clear option but Theo certainly has the 1v1 skills that could put pressure on defenders & open up space for our strikers. I've also been impressed with Saliba's performances this season. He's been strong defensively, is good on the ball and has pace in midfield. We need to control the midfield and set up with defenders that can stay with Gray & Bailey and hope Vitoria can handle Antonio physically as the only other option is ZMG.

[Olympique_de_Marseille]

3 minutes ago, Kadenge said:

Our ability to score during WCQ with Larin & David was a big reason why we finished top of the Octo.

I am actually more worried about Johnston being absent.

How bad is his concussion?

His defending kept us alive and organized.

[DeRo_Is_King]

53 minutes ago, Olympique_de_Marseille said:

58 minutes ago, Kadenge said:

Our ability to score during WCQ with Larin & David was a big reason why we finished top of the Octo.

I am actually more worried about Johnston being absent.

How bad is his concussion?

His defending kept us alive and organized.

Fortunately, I don't think it is a concussion, per @Gian-Luca in the Johnston thread:

Gian-Luca

Posted 17 hours ago

 

Celtic manager post match says no concussion:

https://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/23886187.felt-bit-funny---johnston-celtic-update-concussion-fear/

 

[Obinna]

My too early and probably not realistic 23-man squad for the november window

1. GK - Borjan
2. GK - Crepeau
3. GK - St. Clair
4. D - Johnston
5. D - Laryea
6. D - Davies
7. D - Adekugbe 
8. D - LDF
9. D - Knight-Label
10. D - Cornelius
11. D - Miller
12. D - Vitoria (past it but we need a vet back here)
13. M - Eustaquio
14. M - Kone
15. M - Choniere
16. M - Hoilett
17. M - Nelson (we need another technician)
18. M - Piette (we also need at least 1 destroyer)
19. F - Buchanan
20. F - Millar
21. F - David
22. F - Larin
23. F - Corbeanu (deserves a recall)

[Stoppage Time]

1 minute ago, Obinna said:

My too early and probably not realistic 23-man squad for the november window

1. GK - Borjan
2. GK - Crepeau
3. GK - St. Clair
4. D - Johnston
5. D - Laryea
6. D - Davies
7. D - Adekugbe 
8. D - LDF
9. D - Knight-Label
10. D - Cornelius
11. D - Miller
12. D - Vitoria (past it but we need a vet back here)
13. M - Eustaquio
14. M - Kone
15. M - Choniere
16. M - Hoilett
17. M - Nelson (we need another technician)
18. M - Piette (we also need at least 1 destroyer)
19. F - Buchanan
20. F - Millar
21. F - David
22. F - Larin
23. F - Corbeanu (deserves a recall)

Sirois over St. Clair. Otherwise, looks pretty good. Would fitess be an issue for out of season guys?

[dyslexic nam]

11 minutes ago, Obinna said:

My too early and probably not realistic 23-man squad for the november window

1. GK - Borjan
2. GK - Crepeau
3. GK - St. Clair
4. D - Johnston
5. D - Laryea
6. D - Davies
7. D - Adekugbe 
8. D - LDF
9. D - Knight-Label
10. D - Cornelius
11. D - Miller
12. D - Vitoria (past it but we need a vet back here)
13. M - Eustaquio
14. M - Kone
15. M - Choniere
16. M - Hoilett
17. M - Nelson (we need another technician)
18. M - Piette (we also need at least 1 destroyer)
19. F - Buchanan
20. F - Millar
21. F - David
22. F - Larin
23. F - Corbeanu (deserves a recall)

Just thinking of who is left off from previous/recent squads.  Some that have been in multiple squads:

- Waterman 

- Osorio

- Brym

And some fringe players:

- ZMG

- Paton

- Bombito

- Loturi

- Shaff

- JRR

I think I am good with your squad but I am not sure LDF and JKL get in at the expense of Waterman, and I am still not sure how long Oso will be on the outside looking in.  

[blueseeka]

I am fine with

Eustáquio for Paton

Corbeanu for Brym (50/50 choice)

But there is no way they dont bring in Osorio (no matter what we think of his year)

Piette or Choinière for Nelson would be the only way it happens. And Biello loves Piette

I would love to see JKL in camp but there is no way it happens if LDF is there. It will probably Bombito or McGraw. If LDF doesnt come then sure

 

[Bigandy]

15 hours ago, Obinna said:

My too early and probably not realistic 23-man squad for the november window

1. GK - Borjan
2. GK - Crepeau
3. GK - St. Clair
4. D - Johnston
5. D - Laryea
6. D - Davies
7. D - Adekugbe 
8. D - LDF
9. D - Knight-Label
10. D - Cornelius
11. D - Miller
12. D - Vitoria (past it but we need a vet back here)
13. M - Eustaquio
14. M - Kone
15. M - Choniere
16. M - Hoilett
17. M - Nelson (we need another technician)
18. M - Piette (we also need at least 1 destroyer)
19. F - Buchanan
20. F - Millar
21. F - David
22. F - Larin
23. F - Corbeanu (deserves a recall)

Love this. 

My changes that I think biello will make is LDF wont commit so we bring in bombito. Oso makes it for nelson. Corbeanu is dropped for a striker likely brym but could be ugbo. 

[Obinna]

24 minutes ago, Bigandy said:

Love this. 

My changes that I think biello will make is LDF wont commit so we bring in bombito. Oso makes it for nelson. Corbeanu is dropped for a striker likely brym but could be ugbo. 

If we see that roster with the changes you see happening I would still be pretty contented.

Edited October 30, 2023 by Obinna

[Obinna]

15 hours ago, Stoppage Time said:

Sirois over St. Clair. Otherwise, looks pretty good. Would fitess be an issue for out of season guys?

I actually considered this because it's likely the 3rd keeper spot so why not bring Sirois in? Would not be a slight against St. Clair in any way.

[costarg]

15 hours ago, blueseeka said:

But there is no way they dont bring in Osorio (no matter what we think of his year)

Which is unfortunate, cause others have proven better and earned it.

[blueseeka]

I was surprised that Ahmed didn't make it last time. I won't be shocked if he sneaks back into a call

[Obinna]

1 hour ago, blueseeka said:

I was surprised that Ahmed didn't make it last time. I won't be shocked if he sneaks back into a call

I feel the same way. I wonder if we make enough room for him and Choniere though. Ahmed will be theoretically closer to match fitness, but Choniere has made the bigger impact over the past season and more importantly was with the most recent squad. That may suggest he is ahead of Ahmed in Biello's eyes.

[costarg]

22 minutes ago, Obinna said:

I feel the same way. I wonder if we make enough room for him and Choniere though. Ahmed will be theoretically closer to match fitness, but Choniere has made the bigger impact over the past season and more importantly was with the most recent squad. That may suggest he is ahead of Ahmed in Biello's eyes.

Both can bring a lot and have the tools to surprise and contribute in a huge way to CANMNT.  #Sparkplugs

I can't get enough of Ahmed, he's really fun to watch.

[Kadenge]

Given the club form of David & Larin, we can't run & gun vs Jamaica, especially away. I would sit one of David or Larin. If we plan to high press play David. If we want hold up play and  deal with set pieces for/against play Larin.  The objective should be to keep Jamaica from scoring (unlikely) or to limit them to 1 goal. If it's the same field as for WCQ, it's very spongy which suits Jamaica as they used the long ball a lot vs Haiti in the 1st half.

[Bigandy]

Based on my assesment of biello, we have 18 players locked in for the squad. Anyone agree or disagree with my list based on what BIELLO will pick. Obv we can all debate if oso deserves his spot but IMO hes a lock for biello. 
Locks:
1Borjan 
2Creapeau
3Johnston 
4Laryea
5Adekugbe 
6Davies
7Vitoria
8Cornelius
9miller
10Kone 
11Staq
12Oso
13Buchanan
14Millar
15David
16Larin
17Hoilett
18 Piette

Remaining options
19. GK - Sirious, DSC Mcgill
20. CB - Bombito waterman ZMG LMN zator 
21. CB Prospect -  JKL, LDF
22. CM - Ali, choiniere, paton
23. Attacker - Nelson, corbenau, shaf, brym, ugbo 

Option 21 could go to an additional attacker and the prospects could fight it out with option 20. 
 

[Obinna]

22 minutes ago, Bigandy said:

Based on my assesment of biello, we have 18 players locked in for the squad. Anyone agree or disagree with my list based on what BIELLO will pick. Obv we can all debate if oso deserves his spot but IMO hes a lock for biello. 
Locks:
1Borjan 
2Creapeau
3Johnston 
4Laryea
5Adekugbe 
6Davies
7Vitoria
8Cornelius
9miller
10Kone 
11Staq
12Oso
13Buchanan
14Millar
15David
16Larin
17Hoilett
18 Piette

Remaining options
19. GK - Sirious, DSC Mcgill
20. CB - Bombito waterman ZMG LMN zator 
21. CB Prospect -  JKL, LDF
22. CM - Ali, choiniere, paton
23. Attacker - Nelson, corbenau, shaf, brym, ugbo 

Option 21 could go to an additional attacker and the prospects could fight it out with option 20. 
 

Seems right for the most part, but here is some commentary on it:

Kennedy - didn't make the last roster but given his history with the team with Biello as an assistant it's hard to imagine him not being in that fight for spot 22 (Bombito, Waterman, etc.)

Kaye - basically the same as Kennedy for spot 22 (Ali, Paton, etc..)

Cavallini - again same idea as the first two names. I don't think he's finished yet in the eyes of the coaching staff. I would put him behind Ugbo in spot 23.

JRR - speaking of spot 23....

Millar - for me he is rightly placed, but I am not convinced Biello sees him as a lock. Or put another way, out of all those Biello locks he strikes me as being the guy who would be most at risk of dropping out (in Biello's eyes...not my own).

ZBG - doesn't really slot in anywhere in your list, yet it doesn't feel right to just assume he won't factoring in this cycle. Still seems to be our no. 3 RB option...

[Bigandy]

14 minutes ago, Obinna said:

Seems right for the most part, but here is some commentary on it:

Kennedy - didn't make the last roster but given his history with the team with Biello as an assistant it's hard to imagine him not being in that fight for spot 22 (Bombito, Waterman, etc.)

Kaye - basically the same as Kennedy for spot 22 (Ali, Paton, etc..)

Cavallini - again same idea as the first two names. I don't think he's finished yet in the eyes of the coaching staff. I would put him behind Ugbo in spot 23.

JRR - speaking of spot 23....

Millar - for me he is rightly placed, but I am not convinced Biello sees him as a lock. Or put another way, out of all those Biello locks he strikes me as being the guy who would be most at risk of dropping out (in Biello's eyes...not my own).

ZBG - doesn't really slot in anywhere in your list, yet it doesn't feel right to just assume he won't factoring in this cycle. Still seems to be our no. 3 RB option...

great points. Kennedy is arguably our best of the rest atm. I forgot about him. 

if we include kaye, should we include fraser? 

Good points on cav and JRR. I would be shocked if either are selected above brym and ugbo though, which it sounds like you agree with. 

interesting on millar? Why do u feel that. Based on objective reasons, hes direct, can play up top, wing back and winger, decent championship form and well integrated in the squad. He certainly feels like he could be the odd man out but any particular reasons why you think that?

This is the only point i disagree with. I like ZBG but we are likely going with a back 3. Buchanan, millar, hoilett and laryea all will provide enough depth at RWB that he's not in the conversation imo.  

[Obinna]

12 minutes ago, Bigandy said:

great points. Kennedy is arguably our best of the rest atm. I forgot about him. 

if we include kaye, should we include fraser? 

Good points on cav and JRR. I would be shocked if either are selected above brym and ugbo though, which it sounds like you agree with. 

interesting on millar? Why do u feel that. Based on objective reasons, hes direct, can play up top, wing back and winger, decent championship form and well integrated in the squad. He certainly feels like he could be the odd man out but any particular reasons why you think that?

This is the only point i disagree with. I like ZBG but we are likely going with a back 3. Buchanan, millar, hoilett and laryea all will provide enough depth at RWB that he's not in the conversation imo.  

Yes absolutely on Fraser. I actually forgot to mention him here. He was in the pool and getting calls while in the 2nd div of Belgium and he upgraded by going back to MLS, so he is likely to remain in the wider pool.

I agree that JRR for now is behind both Ugbo and Brym. He did get 3 caps over the summer though and could go on a bit of a run here with Columbus, so while I don't see him making November he could be a surprise call. Ugbo is not doing much with Cardiff and if something happens to Brym I could see the door opening.

For Millar I agree with all you said which is why I thought he would get more minutes against Japan. I can't remember how much he played but it felt like less than he deserves. This is why I question whether Biello sees him as a lock. With Buchanan out I even thought he could have been a starter vs Japan. So this is what gives me doubts.

ZBG I agree is out of the picture if we are talking back 3, although he is likely the 4th option as he is good at wingback. Can't list every one though have to cut it off somewhere...

[Bigandy]

51 minutes ago, Obinna said:

Yes absolutely on Fraser. I actually forgot to mention him here. He was in the pool and getting calls while in the 2nd div of Belgium and he upgraded by going back to MLS, so he is likely to remain in the wider pool.

I agree that JRR for now is behind both Ugbo and Brym. He did get 3 caps over the summer though and could go on a bit of a run here with Columbus, so while I don't see him making November he could be a surprise call. Ugbo is not doing much with Cardiff and if something happens to Brym I could see the door opening.

For Millar I agree with all you said which is why I thought he would get more minutes against Japan. I can't remember how much he played but it felt like less than he deserves. This is why I question whether Biello sees him as a lock. With Buchanan out I even thought he could have been a starter vs Japan. So this is what gives me doubts.

ZBG I agree is out of the picture if we are talking back 3, although he is likely the 4th option as he is good at wingback. Can't list every one though have to cut it off somewhere...

Good points.  

So if fraser in div 2 belguim upgrades by going to the MLS, why was brym so highly touted in div 2 holland.  Obviously its different now that hes in eredivise, but its weird to think that i felt fraser was playing in a farmers league while brym was in a great environment that would be the stepping stone he needed to crack the CMNT.   

[Obinna]

2 minutes ago, Bigandy said:

Good points.  

So if fraser in div 2 belguim upgrades by going to the MLS, why was brym so highly touted in div 2 holland.  Obviously its different now that hes in eredivise, but its weird to think that i felt fraser was playing in a farmers league while brym was in a great environment that would be the stepping stone he needed to crack the CMNT.   

Belgium div 2 feels a little more bare bones than Holland div 2....at least for me. Also, Brym was highly touted because of Brym, has always been that way with the CSA. They liked him at Lille B and liked him in Belgium and Portugal even though he barely played. They have been consistent with how highly they rated Brym.

[Shway]

At this point, I don't care who's on roster spots 17-23. Chances are they won't play. As long as we have our best 11 players available I'm happy. 

I'm also at peace with our "interim manager" not changing anything at all in order to get the results we need.
There's no need to experiment with the interim manager (Rafa Benitez voice).

Knowing this, the status quo lineup should be....

--------------Borjan------------
--- Johnston-Vitoria-Miller---
Buchanan---Staq---Kone---Davies
----------------Osorio-----------
------------David---Larin--------

Subs:
Hoilett, Laryea, Piette, Choiniere, Ugbo. 

We go to Jamaica and we draw 2-2. 
We come back home and win 3-1. 
And onto the bloodclot Copa we go!  

[VinceA]

14 hours ago, Shway said:

At this point, I don't care who's on roster spots 17-23. Chances are they won't play. As long as we have our best 11 players available I'm happy. 

I'm also at peace with our "interim manager" not changing anything at all in order to get the results we need.
There's no need to experiment with the interim manager (Rafa Benitez voice).

Knowing this, the status quo lineup should be....

--------------Borjan------------
--- Johnston-Vitoria-Miller---
Buchanan---Staq---Kone---Davies
----------------Osorio-----------
------------David---Larin--------

Subs:
Hoilett, Laryea, Piette, Choiniere, Ugbo. 

We go to Jamaica and we draw 2-2. 
We come back home and win 3-1. 
And onto the bloodclot Copa we go!  

I don't think we can score in Jamaica. We aren't in form and even when we were it was a 0-0 draw.

[Obinna]

10 minutes ago, VinceA said:

I don't think we can score in Jamaica. We aren't in form and even when we were it was a 0-0 draw.

I feel less pessimistic with Eustaquio and Buchanan healthy and playing. Those two should make a difference. 

Last month Jamaica conceeded 2 goals to Haiti at home in a draw. They also shut out Honduras 1-0, but we have more firepower than Honduras.