Next CanMNT manager (Herdman to TFC)

[dyslexic nam]

14 hours ago, SpursFlu said:

I guess not bad for what amounts to a part time job but international managers actually don't make as much you might think

https://sportsest.com/fifa-world-cup-national-team-coaches-salaries-2022/?expand_article=1

As an example it looks like a solid manager like Chris Hughton gets paid less to coach Ghana than Herdman got to coach Canada 

Depending on the direction Canada might save money and upgrade all at the same time

So that is in Euros - which works out to $700k CAD per year if my Google currency exchange is accurate.  

That may not be Ancelotti territory but surely it is enough to find a decent coach - especially someone who may be looking to really cement their reputation as a tactician by navigating us a bit deeper into a home WC.  That is the kind of high profile accomplishment that adds a. It if extra value to the gig.  

[mpg_29]

Wait so Herdman was making $700K CAD per year. I find that hard to believe. I assumed it was more like $200K-$400K. I also assume that TFC would be paying closer to that range. 

Edited August 29, 2023 by mpg_29

[TOcanadafan]

It’s not just the salary, it’s the fact that the program has no money.  We won’t be able to attract anyone with any sort of experience or resume.

I guess the only positive this is having is that it’s bringing the dire situation of our program and it’s troubled recent past (both incompetence and shadiness) to light in the mainstream media once again.  I always appreciate when a highly respected journalist like Bruce Arthur weighs in as he did late yesterday in The Star.  I bet Bontis is having a laugh collecting his millions with Concacaf.  

[Obinna]

55 minutes ago, dyslexic nam said:

I am as anti-US as the next guy (and probably more than most) but I want the best person for the job.  Full stop.  

The thought of an American manager feels kinda icky...but I agree that we should get the best person regardless of passport.

You know, before the One Soccer round table I assumed someone like Jesse Marsch was far-fetched, but I am not so sure. Perhaps there's a possibility there. Yes he is American, but he's got that European pedigree having worked for Salzburg, Leipzig and Leeds. He was also the Montreal boss at one point, so he's aquianted with both Canada and MLS. Plus, he was an assistant to the USMNT, so he knows international football. 

We could have a whole other discussion on tactics and whether he'd be a good fit (he could be!), but just based on resume and potential salary alone, I think it could actually be feesible. For Marsch he'd get time and grace to work (wasn't afforded that at Leeds or the other EPL club he was in the running to take over (Southampton?) and getting to coach at a North American World Cup would/should be a BIG draw, plus the bonus of potentially coaching at a Copa America. He's young and energetic too, which I believe could be a good thing. He ticks a lot of boxes. 

It could also set Marsch up to coach the USMNT afterwards, should he do well with Canada, especially if Berhalter falls on his face (again!). 

[youllneverwalkalone]

Herve Renard is an interesting name on that list who would probably be within our range. Ticks all the boxes really, experienced women's manager 😀.

[Aird25]

It’s quite clear that many posters here don’t watch or listen to what our national team broadcasters have to say. I find that very strange 

[Bigandy]

15 hours ago, jonovision said:

Exceeding your xG is a sign of luck as much as anything else.

I disagree. Thats like saying Messi exceeds his XG because of luck and not because he scores at a better than expected rate. You create your own luck and soft elements of the game (such as increased pressure on the opposition) can impact your opponent into making a mistake. If youre battering a GK and hes nervous, he may make a unfortunate mistake but forcing him into that mistake was earned.

[InglewoodJack]

31 minutes ago, Obinna said:

The thought of an American manager feels kinda icky...but I agree that we should get the best person regardless of passport.

You know, before the One Soccer round table I assumed someone like Jesse Marsch was far-fetched, but I am not so sure. Perhaps there's a possibility there. Yes he is American, but he's got that European pedigree having worked for Salzburg, Leipzig and Leeds. He was also the Montreal boss at one point, so he's aquianted with both Canada and MLS. Plus, he was an assistant to the USMNT, so he knows international football. 

We could have a whole other discussion on tactics and whether he'd be a good fit (he could be!), but just based on resume and potential salary alone, I think it could actually be feesible. For Marsch he'd get time and grace to work (wasn't afforded that at Leeds or the other EPL club he was in the running to take over (Southampton?) and getting to coach at a North American World Cup would/should be a BIG draw, plus the bonus of potentially coaching at a Copa America. He's young and energetic too, which I believe could be a good thing. He ticks a lot of boxes. 

It could also set Marsch up to coach the USMNT afterwards, should he do well with Canada, especially if Berhalter falls on his face (again!). 

I generally agree with what you are saying, but the bolded would be the reason to make me dislike this kind of move. We're not the US' feeder system. I also don't want Priestman going to USWNT either.

Here's another name that is sure to piss everyone off but might actually be doable: Scott Parker

[dyslexic nam]

13 minutes ago, Aird25 said:

It’s quite clear that many posters here don’t watch or listen to what our national team broadcasters have to say. I find that very strange 

Some listen but assume it is all shill propaganda.   It makes it tough to have a rational debate when one side gets to completely and immediately discredit the other side.  

[dyslexic nam]

2 minutes ago, InglewoodJack said:

I generally agree with what you are saying, but the bolded would be the reason to make me dislike this kind of move. We're not the US' feeder system. I also don't want Priestman going to USWNT either.

For me it isn’t about the general ickinesss of feeding into the US system.  It is more about the risk of hiring someone with potential US coaching aspirations who could theoretically jump ship before 2026 and take over the helm for the USMNT if they had demonstrated success with Canada (leaving us at a crucial time).  Any hire that had that flight-risk profile would have to be locked down contractually to mitigate against that possibility.   

[Obinna]

1 minute ago, InglewoodJack said:

I generally agree with what you are saying, but the bolded would be the reason to make me dislike this kind of move. We're not the US' feeder system. I also don't want Priestman going to USWNT either.

Here's another name that is sure to piss everyone off but might actually be doable: Scott Parker

I was tempted not to add that last part as to not upset the apple cart on a potential Marsch move, but it had to be said. It would be an obvious angle for him I believe. Obviously I agree that it would be shitty, but it would probably still be worth going for Marsch regardless of that potential reality, at least in my opinion. 

I see it this way, if he comes in and we do well and he leaves for the USMNT afterwards - well he's an American.

In a way all I would care about is him leaving the program in a better place. The better we are the better coaches we can get in the future.  

[SpursFlu]

1 hour ago, dyslexic nam said:

So that is in Euros - which works out to $700k CAD per year if my Google currency exchange is accurate.  

That may not be Ancelotti territory but surely it is enough to find a decent coach - especially someone who may be looking to really cement their reputation as a tactician by navigating us a bit deeper into a home WC.  That is the kind of high profile accomplishment that adds a. It if extra value to the gig.  

So 90% of national teams don't have a decent coach? That's good because now we know most teams we play against we will beat because they don't have a decent coach. They can't convince people to play for them etc etc

That seems to be the logic coming from some

Again I think we can easily upgrade from Herdman for less money. We may not get a gold star Ted Talker who the media loves like Herdman but someone who gets better results and costs less

Edited August 29, 2023 by SpursFlu

[Aird25]

7 minutes ago, dyslexic nam said:

Some listen but assume it is all shill propaganda.   It makes it tough to have a rational debate when one side gets to completely and immediately discredit the other side.  

What exactly are you doing with this post? Completely and immediately discrediting the other side?

[Obinna]

Just now, dyslexic nam said:

For me it isn’t about the general ickinesss of feeding into the US system.  It is more about the risk of hiring someone with potential US coaching aspirations who could theoretically jump ship before 2026 and take over the helm for the USMNT if they had demonstrated success with Canada (leaving us at a crucial time).  Any hire that had that flight-risk profile would have to be locked down contractually to mitigate against that possibility.   

Good point. I'd like to think Marsch wouldn't come in and out before the WC, even for the USMNT job, but you never know. 

 

[WestHamCanadianinOxford]

12 hours ago, JamboAl said:

I would argue we have some top notch players but after that, it’s about getting the most out of the rest; and building a system that works as a unit.  I think Herdman did that really well in qualifying and Christiansen could do the same.  But realism also says, we probably couldn’t afford to pay the Panamanians a fee to get him out of his contract.

I agree with the goals but I see them achieved in different ways.

I guess my point is that if we get the most out of the rest we will always be chasing the US and Mexico and most World Cup teams.  We can't win on depth, I don't think. 

To build a system that works as a unit and that unit includes elite players, you may need someone with experience working with those elite players.  We have seen a few instances where being great players overrode the CMNT being a unit, under Herdman.   I would like a coach stronger in that area and you have a leg up if you have coached similar players before.

Fees and salary are the catch, again.

[dyslexic nam]

1 minute ago, Aird25 said:

What exactly are you doing with this post? Completely and immediately discrediting the other side?

If you want to frame it that way, go ahead.  

I am just questioning the tactics of some who debate using dubious methods.   Westhead quoted an unnamed source? Must be true.   KJ/Wheels/Platt quotes an unnamed source?   They are just CSB spokespeople who can’t be believed.  

The discussions here have seen that dynamic more than once.  I am just pointing out that it is hard to debate someone who decries “fake news” when encountering alternative information.   
 

[TGAA_Star]

Biello will most likely be our manager but why not De Vos or any other former Canadian international to be our manager?

[InglewoodJack]

8 minutes ago, Obinna said:

I was tempted not to add that last part as to not upset the apple cart on a potential Marsch move, but it had to be said. It would be an obvious angle for him I believe. Obviously I agree that it would be shitty, but it would probably still be worth going for Marsch regardless of that potential reality, at least in my opinion. 

I see it this way, if he comes in and we do well and he leaves for the USMNT afterwards - well he's an American.

In a way all I would care about is him leaving the program in a better place. The better we are the better coaches we can get in the future.  

Like @dyslexic nam said, if he has some sort of contractual agreement that he can't coach the US until after 2026, that would make it a bit better, but I think the last thing Canada needs is to be a feeder for the US team.

That said, I would think that for Marsch, an international gig is a stop gap until he gets another club offer, so I don't think he'd leave for the US, but I also don't think he wants to commit the next 3 years of his career to an international team when he's probably one of the top names for premier league jobs as soon as coaches start getting axed (I think 4 prem teams are on 0 points currently). Even a team like Watford who is already looking shaky under Valerien Ismael might toss him an offer if they don't turn things around soon. Plus, he has Bundesliga experience too, maybe there's something there. I don't think international jobs interest him much right now, unless it was 2025 and he only had to manage the team for a year, show well at the world cup, and then make a move back to England.

[Obinna]

2 minutes ago, TGAA_Star said:

Biello will most likely be our manager but why not De Vos or any other former Canadian international to be our manager?

Biello is a former Canadian international. I think he played 4 times for Canada. 

[Aird25]

6 minutes ago, dyslexic nam said:

If you want to frame it that way, go ahead.  

I am just questioning the tactics of some who debate using dubious methods.   Westhead quoted an unnamed source? Must be true.   KJ/Wheels/Platt quotes an unnamed source?   They are just CSB spokespeople who can’t be believed.  

The discussions here have seen that dynamic more than once.  I am just pointing out that it is hard to debate someone who decries “fake news” when encountering alternative information.   
 

Oh gotcha. I thought you were calling what KJ, Ollie etc. said shill and propaganda 

Edited August 29, 2023 by Aird25

[Obinna]

Just now, InglewoodJack said:

Like @dyslexic nam said, if he has some sort of contractual agreement that he can't coach the US until after 2026, that would make it a bit better, but I think the last thing Canada needs is to be a feeder for the US team.

That said, I would think that for Marsch, an international gig is a stop gap until he gets another club offer, so I don't think he'd leave for the US, but I also don't think he wants to commit the next 3 years of his career to an international team when he's probably one of the top names for premier league jobs as soon as coaches start getting axed (I think 4 prem teams are on 0 points currently). Even a team like Watford who is already looking shaky under Valerien Ismael might toss him an offer if they don't turn things around soon. Plus, he has Bundesliga experience too, maybe there's something there. I don't think international jobs interest him much right now, unless it was 2025 and he only had to manage the team for a year, show well at the world cup, and then make a move back to England.

I agree.

It would be less than 3 years though. He won't get hired tomorrow and it's already less than 3 years before a ball is kicked at WC 2026. 

I would expect the next coach, whomever he is, to come in for the summer of 2024 at earliest. 

The bigger question may be would Marsch even be available by then? 

[WestHamCanadianinOxford]

8 minutes ago, dyslexic nam said:

For me it isn’t about the general ickinesss of feeding into the US system.  It is more about the risk of hiring someone with potential US coaching aspirations who could theoretically jump ship before 2026 and take over the helm for the USMNT if they had demonstrated success with Canada (leaving us at a crucial time).  Any hire that had that flight-risk profile would have to be locked down contractually to mitigate against that possibility.   

Do you think his ultimate goal is to manage the US or get another (non-poisoned chalice) shot in a top league?  He didn't want the Leicester job for good reason. In my opinion he will need to show more to get a stable Premier League job for instance.

You could make an iron-clad contract that locks him into 2026.  If he is looking long term, he might sign it.

Whether we are okay with it just being that long is another matter.

[InglewoodJack]

Just now, Obinna said:

I agree.

It would be less than 3 years though. He won't get hired tomorrow and it's already less than 3 years before a ball is kicked at WC 2026. 

I would expect the next coach, whomever he is, to come in for the summer of 2024 at earliest. 

The bigger question may be would Marsch even be available by then? 

On a separate issue, this is something I'm realizing too. Naming Biello interim coach probably means he's going to coach some games, so we're definitely stuck with him through end of this calendar year, and say he gets a good result against Japan in November, all of a sudden, maybe we keep him on longer. Realistically, we're months away from having a new coach, and that's assuming that Biello doesn't just get appointed HC.

I do think that Marsch is going to get premier league offers before Christmas though. A lot of really bad teams this year.

[dyslexic nam]

3 minutes ago, WestHamCanadianinOxford said:

Do you think his ultimate goal is to manage the US or get another (non-poisoned chalice) shot in a top league?  He didn't want the Leicester job for good reason. In my opinion he will need to show more to get a stable Premier League job for instance.

You could make an iron-clad contract that locks him into 2026.  If he is looking long term, he might sign it.

Whether we are okay with it just being that long is another matter.

Definitely don’t know enough about him to know his motive.  It is more about ensuring we don’t leave ourselves vulnerable to that sort of opportunism - whatever the source/nationality.  

[WestHamCanadianinOxford]

6 minutes ago, InglewoodJack said:

I do think that Marsch is going to get premier league offers before Christmas though. A lot of really bad teams this year.

He has had Premier League offers, just not the ones he wanted.  

Is an amazing run with Canada a strategic move for something really big? 

Probably not if I am honest, but neither is sitting on your hands.

 

Worth an effort for us,  to get the most out of these players.

Edited August 29, 2023 by WestHamCanadianinOxford