Aidan Morris

[gigi riva]

Morris was a long shot to commit I believe . I think its time that the CSA invests in youith football and lets see sopme camps  and have us competes in some tournaments  etc 

[Ottawafan]

6 hours ago, VinceA said:

In fact it feels like the CSA has gotten even worse in recent times.

At least in like 2014 we were sending youth teams to Europe to compete in friendlies and tourneys like the Milk Cup.

Support the federation ( which we don’t have ).  

[El Hombre]

11 hours ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

Just trash talking, you are quite right. To the deservedly leading piece of trash on the board right now: "I spent 10 grand to go to Qatar so I am a better fan than you".

And you support him.

I think the fact that he spent $10K on a trip that should actually cost much less (it did for me) shows his lack of financial savvy and maybe he isn't the best person to be commenting on how organizations do their budgeting.

[Ottawafan]

33 minutes ago, El Hombre said:

I think the fact that he spent $10K on a trip that should actually cost much less (it did for me) shows his lack of financial savvy and maybe he isn't the best person to be commenting on how organizations do their budgeting.

Tickets to 20 games were expensive homie.   

[El Hombre]

2 minutes ago, Ottawafan said:

Tickets to 20 games were expensive homie.   

That's a lot of Canadian games, my brother.

[Ottawafan]

Just now, El Hombre said:

That's a lot of Canadian games, my brother.

Canada plus many more.  Not even half what Lee went to and we were dead by the end.  Well worth it!

[El Hombre]

Just now, Ottawafan said:

Canada plus many more.  Not even half what Lee went to and we were dead by the end.  Well worth it!

So you weren't there just to see Canada?  What kind of fan are you then?

[Ottawafan]

2 minutes ago, El Hombre said:

So you weren't there just to see Canada?  What kind of fan are you then?

One that went home disappointed with Canada's outcome but blown away by the experience.  

[Mattd97]

17 hours ago, Bigandy said:

Running youth national camps is not related to the CSB in any shape or form other than its one of many revenue sources.

P.S. I dont love the CSA but to call them incompetent because their core competency is running a soccer federation and not marketing is ignorant. Do you want your plumber to focus on marketing or plumbing? Outsourcing is done in every business and that doesnt make them incompemtent, it means their focus lies elsewhere or they can realize cost efficiencies. Choosing to outsource instead of thinking they can do everything better than everyone else is my definition of competence.  

So on these two main points -- CSB is 4% of revenue, but that 4% is all possible sponsorship money correct? Its a legitimate question, Im not 100% sure of this.  My understanding is we sell them all possible "marketing" profit (and risk) of much of our possible revenue as an Association in exchange for that guarantee $4million.  If thats the case, then of course it has to do with an inability to run the youth camps.  IF, and sure a big If, there was no cap on that they could conceivably bring in much more than that 4 million which would help grow the revenue.  To discredit it as unrelated isnt exactly a fair take.

And on the plumber - i mean you seem like an intelligent guy who just has too much faith in these people so Im willing to let it go as an insincere attempt but thats just silly.  The CSA is not a plumber.  I dont expect a youth coach to focus on or achieve bringing in revenue through marketing.  I dont expect a plumber to do that either.  But Im pretty sure if they want their Plumbing business to succeed theyll need to bring in a bookkeeper and other people qualified to do the things they need to run the business.  You want to say that the plumbers best option is to outsource it all, cool different strokes thats why they make chocolate and vanilla, but clearly the organization needs to be competent in a pretty significant part of their function.

 

My opinion anyways. Hopefully we can all just enjoy dunking on Aidan Morris' US teams with a fully funded and highly marketed program.

 

Edited June 9, 2023 by Mattd97

[SthMelbRed]

As a general rule, if you're arguing that the CSA is 100% at fault for everything bad, but gets zero credit for anything good, you're just the kind of fuckwit who's best ignored.

[Ottawafan]

11 minutes ago, SthMelbRed said:

As a general rule, if you're arguing that the CSA is 100% at fault for everything bad, but gets zero credit for anything good, you're just the kind of fuckwit who's best ignored.

The CSA should not be held responsible for the CSA not holding enough youth camps.  Got it.

[Bigandy]

51 minutes ago, Mattd97 said:

So on these two main points -- CSB is 4% of revenue, but that 4% is all possible sponsorship money correct? Its a legitimate question, Im not 100% sure of this.  My understanding is we sell them all possible "marketing" profit (and risk) of much of our possible revenue as an Association in exchange for that guarantee $4million.  If thats the case, then of course it has to do with an inability to run the youth camps.  IF, and sure a big If, there was no cap on that they could conceivably bring in much more than that 4 million which would help grow the revenue.  To discredit it as unrelated isnt exactly a fair take.

And on the plumber - i mean you seem like an intelligent guy who just has too much faith in these people so Im willing to let it go as an insincere attempt but thats just silly.  The CSA is not a plumber.  I dont expect a youth coach to focus on or achieve bringing in revenue through marketing.  I dont expect a plumber to do that either.  But Im pretty sure if they want their Plumbing business to succeed theyll need to bring in a bookkeeper and other people qualified to do the things they need to run the business.  You want to say that the plumbers best option is to outsource it all, cool different strokes thats why they make chocolate and vanilla, but clearly the organization needs to be competent in a pretty significant part of their function.

 

My opinion anyways. Hopefully we can all just enjoy dunking on Aidan Morris' US teams with a fully funded and highly marketed program.

 

4% topic - The answer to your question is quite broad and a bit vague. It all depends on what your definition of marketing is. The OTP fund for the women is not part of CSB and could be viewed as a sponsorship revenue or it could also not be viewed that way. However the bigger challenge with your statement is the assumption that the CSA would generate more than 4million if there was no cap. Lets do the math based on the financial statements. Prior to the CSB deal, we generated under 1 million in sponsorship and paid 1 million to broadcast games. In order to generate 4 million in profit, we would need to get 5 million in sponsorship  PROFIT! However to generate 5 million in PROFIT, we would need to generate 5 million PLUS whatever it costs to produce that 5 million. This would be paying for staff, flights to meet with potential partners, rent, ad costs etc. To match the CSB, we would need to spend at least 1 million. The CSB in a world cup year, leveraging the CPL can only generate 8.2 million in REVENUE! How do you see it possible that the CSA, could generate 6 million minumum in revenue when we couldnt generate 1 million without the CSB? The CSA also couldnt leverage the CPL for sponsorship, and can only leverage the WC once every 4 years.  Work through the numbers yourself and see how much room for sponsorship growth there is. At absolute best, if you ignore the realities of business, youre still only seeing a marginal increase in sponsorship dollars (which is so unlikely). Maybe 1 million ? when the CSA has a 5 million deficit, 1 million is not the reason we do or do not host youth camps.  (Now this is not to say that we cannot leverage CSB and amend the deal for better profit sharing. We should do this. But without the CSB deal, none of this is possible). 

Plumber paragraph - I think you indirectly agree with my point. An organization has to be good at the core competencies. Marketing is not part of the core for a plumber, and neither is it for the CSA. They are a soccer federation, not a marketing firm. Are we critical of the CSA for hiring an outside lawyer or accountant? obviously not. So i dont get why people are critical of the CSA hiring an outside marketing agency. 

[Bigandy]

12 hours ago, costarg said:

Maybe it's late and I'm tired, but what's improved exactly in the past 4 years?  CPL?  Anything else?  

Please don't bring up the woman teams success, and the men qualifying for the WC, none of that is on CSA, neither is Davies, David, etc.... that success came along in spite of CSA, but they did not help or create it in any way.

 

Firstly, I have always maintained that the CSA has some major flaws and tons of room for improvement. Alot of the below can be debatable as well as to if the CSA improved canada soccer or in spite of CSA. But I would argue that there is more "debatable" improvements of the CSA recently than in prior years.

1. Broadcasting deal/ no longer paying to show games.
2. Launch of CPL 
3. Acquiring co hosting for WC
4. CBA proposed with equal pay per game plus bonus making our womens team the second highest paid in the world
5. Hiring of Herdman which led to an insane increase in dual nationals committing, which then led to WCQ. 
6. General popularity of the sport is at an all time high. 
7. The development of league 1 pyramids in BC, Alberta etc. 

In your paragraph you claim that David has absolutely nothing to do with the CSA. If the CSA didnt hire herdman then our focus on duals and the inspiration of the brotherhood is probably unlikely to happen. Therefore no David or maybe no staq etc. (This is one of those debatable influences but to say the CSA didnt help at all and/or hindered the signing of David is false IMO).

I guess we can then look at what the role of CSA is. IMO, I would love CSA to hire great coaches who can take all the credit of our on field results. I want CSA to negotiate for better broadcasting and sponsorship deals (thru 3rd party negotiators is fine). Prepare budgets and CBA to help our sr and youth teams succeed. etc. Grow the sport in Canada. 

I dont expect or want the CSA to be the front and center reason we succeed or failure. I view the CSA as a facilitator to put our talent in positions to succeed. 

[Unnamed Trialist]

2 hours ago, SthMelbRed said:

As a general rule, if you're arguing that the CSA is 100% at fault for everything bad, but gets zero credit for anything good, you're just the kind of fuckwit who's best ignored.

Except if its true. Say over the past 25 years, its been 80-90% true about 80-90% of the time.

You can't objectively complain about the CSA and especially in function of results, then when we have results, say it's nothing to do with the CSA. That's bad faith and you lose all credit. Another thing is to just rant which may be cathartic for you personally (I'm an expert) but you have to differentiate the rant from reality.

[costarg]

3 hours ago, Bigandy said:

4. CBA proposed with equal pay per game plus bonus making our womens team the second highest paid in the world
 

This is the first thing that caught my eye in your reply and I immediately was like WTF.  We're crediting CSA for this now?  Didn't CSA have to get dragged around the dirt and kicked in the head to agree to this?  Or am i remembering it wrong?

It's been a rough year, details are a little fuzzy.

[Bison44]

Have the women finally signed it?

[SthMelbRed]

7 hours ago, Ottawafan said:

The CSA should not be held responsible for the CSA not holding enough youth camps.  Got it.

I make a broad statement about fuckwits, without mentioning anyone specific, and your immediate instinct is to jump up and down, yelling "me, me me. I'm the fuckwit!" Well done, moron. 🙄

[Unnamed Trialist]

4 hours ago, costarg said:

This is the first thing that caught my eye in your reply and I immediately was like WTF.  We're crediting CSA for this now?  Didn't CSA have to get dragged around the dirt and kicked in the head to agree to this?  Or am i remembering it wrong?

It's been a rough year, details are a little fuzzy.

Your posts on this subject work better as fine irony.

I agree with your take entirely if that's the case.

[gigi riva]

The CSA Is entering a new stage in its organization history , Now it has been forced to act like a professional org the days of being run like a small time organization  are over , And its struggling to adapt to the change . and it will take some time to adapt . If people think the more succesful Soccer nations  federations are run smoothly  are in for a shock 

[Unnamed Trialist]

7 hours ago, gigi riva said:

The CSA Is entering a new stage in its organization history , Now it has been forced to act like a professional org the days of being run like a small time organization  are over , And its struggling to adapt to the change . and it will take some time to adapt . If people think the more succesful Soccer nations  federations are run smoothly  are in for a shock 

Many of the great nations, and great clubs, have serious problems in all kinds of ways in the administration and FOs. No question, I agree. Only sometimes does winning help cover those problems up.

[Bigandy]

On 6/9/2023 at 12:15 PM, costarg said:

This is the first thing that caught my eye in your reply and I immediately was like WTF.  We're crediting CSA for this now?  Didn't CSA have to get dragged around the dirt and kicked in the head to agree to this?  Or am i remembering it wrong?

It's been a rough year, details are a little fuzzy.

Theres alot of debate on this (just like my original post stated). Did CSA drag their feet or can the men and women not agree on the CBA? Probably a bit of both but we do know the CSA has had a proposed CBA for months that no one is signing. 

The CSA also deserves giving credit for offering to make the women the 2nd highest paid team. They could have easily offered them a salary that matched their play (which is not the 2nd best team in the world consistently). They could also have offered a salary that is proportional to the amount of funds the CSA has. Obviously there are other federations who have waaaay deeper pockets who pay their players less.  

So no, the CSA is not being kicked in the head to agree to anything. There is nothing that has been agreed upon yet. The bottleneck in signing the CBA is not currently CSA. Furthermore, I dont believe the CSA ever had to be kicked to improve the salary offer. The CSA may move slowly on formalizing a CBA (which is understandable given all thats happened recently), but theyve always maintained the stance that they want to offer equal salaries. I dont think I have ever heard a possible CBA without equal fees/bonus per game.

[Ottawafan]

On 6/9/2023 at 10:42 AM, Bigandy said:

Firstly, I have always maintained that the CSA has some major flaws and tons of room for improvement. Alot of the below can be debatable as well as to if the CSA improved canada soccer or in spite of CSA. But I would argue that there is more "debatable" improvements of the CSA recently than in prior years.

1. Broadcasting deal/ no longer paying to show games.
2. Launch of CPL 
3. Acquiring co hosting for WC
4. CBA proposed with equal pay per game plus bonus making our womens team the second highest paid in the world
5. Hiring of Herdman which led to an insane increase in dual nationals committing, which then led to WCQ. 
6. General popularity of the sport is at an all time high. 
7. The development of league 1 pyramids in BC, Alberta etc. 

In your paragraph you claim that David has absolutely nothing to do with the CSA. If the CSA didnt hire herdman then our focus on duals and the inspiration of the brotherhood is probably unlikely to happen. Therefore no David or maybe no staq etc. (This is one of those debatable influences but to say the CSA didnt help at all and/or hindered the signing of David is false IMO).

I guess we can then look at what the role of CSA is. IMO, I would love CSA to hire great coaches who can take all the credit of our on field results. I want CSA to negotiate for better broadcasting and sponsorship deals (thru 3rd party negotiators is fine). Prepare budgets and CBA to help our sr and youth teams succeed. etc. Grow the sport in Canada. 

I dont expect or want the CSA to be the front and center reason we succeed or failure. I view the CSA as a facilitator to put our talent in positions to succeed. 

I have been involved in the game for 40 years.  Coached various levels, worked in the club, at the regional level and have numerous dealings with OSA and seen how the CSA has operated both on and off the field.  Never got paid for any of it.  I can assure you that isn't the norm anymore.  Everything that is done in the name of soccer in this country is about controlling the $$$'s.  You see accomplishments from the CSA; I see and know that it is done for different reasons.  And it isn't about doing what is right, it is about consolidating control and benefiting from it financially.

Yes you need various entities to be financially viable for the game to grow and succeed.  I am not begrudging someone or a group from making money.  But when so few make decisions that clearly benefit only a select few as well, then the system is rotten.   

[Ottawafan]

On 6/9/2023 at 5:55 PM, SthMelbRed said:

I make a broad statement about fuckwits, without mentioning anyone specific, and your immediate instinct is to jump up and down, yelling "me, me me. I'm the fuckwit!" Well done, moron. 🙄

Internet tough guys, great.

[Ottawafan]

On 6/9/2023 at 12:07 PM, Unnamed Trialist said:

Except if its true. Say over the past 25 years, its been 80-90% true about 80-90% of the time.

You can't objectively complain about the CSA and especially in function of results, then when we have results, say it's nothing to do with the CSA. That's bad faith and you lose all credit. Another thing is to just rant which may be cathartic for you personally (I'm an expert) but you have to differentiate the rant from reality.

What role does the CSA play in development? 

[Bigandy]

43 minutes ago, Ottawafan said:

I have been involved in the game for 40 years.  Coached various levels, worked in the club, at the regional level and have numerous dealings with OSA and seen how the CSA has operated both on and off the field.  Never got paid for any of it.  I can assure you that isn't the norm anymore.  Everything that is done in the name of soccer in this country is about controlling the $$$'s.  You see accomplishments from the CSA; I see and know that it is done for different reasons.  And it isn't about doing what is right, it is about consolidating control and benefiting from it financially.

Yes you need various entities to be financially viable for the game to grow and succeed.  I am not begrudging someone or a group from making money.  But when so few make decisions that clearly benefit only a select few as well, then the system is rotten.   

Whats your point. That the 7 positives i listed dont count because theres money in play? 

1. Broadcasting deal/ no longer paying to show games. - Who at the CSA are benefiting to the detriment of our national from this?
2. Launch of CPL - How is anyone at CSA profiting from this? The CPL owners arent even making money yet.
3. Acquiring co hosting for WC - Who financially benefits from this?
4. CBA proposed with equal pay per game plus bonus making our womens team the second highest paid in the world. Who, other than the senior teams benefit from this?
5. Hiring of Herdman which led to an insane increase in dual nationals committing, which then led to WCQ. - Who, other than our sr team benefits from this?
6. General popularity of the sport is at an all time high. - Isnt this our entire goal? 
7. The development of league 1 pyramids in BC, Alberta etc. - Who benefits from this other than young players? 

Your post is such nonsense. None of my 7 points listed indicate any financial wrong doing or a rotten system.