WCQ: Third Round - Window 1 (September 2-8, 2021)

[SpecialK]

I don’t understand why Concacaf wasn’t ready for this and come up with a plan. Idea why not have a bubble country and put in tough Protocols to make club teams/league happy. 

Montreal has two stadiums right beside each other ? 
Toronto has two
Calgary has two
Edmonton has two

I am more worried about other top leagues following the EPL. 
 

 

[Obinna]

58 minutes ago, SpecialK said:

I don’t understand why Concacaf wasn’t ready for this and come up with a plan. Idea why not have a bubble country and put in tough Protocols to make club teams/league happy. 

Montreal has two stadiums right beside each other ? 
Toronto has two
Calgary has two
Edmonton has two

I am more worried about other top leagues following the EPL. 
 

 

Like I said before, not getting players from European leagues may weaken the competition, but it doesn't put it in jepordy. Therefore, there is nothing for concacaf to plan for.

They just got to have the games and move forward despite the challenges. Certain teams may get screwed over (Jamaica for instance), but it's not concacaf's fault for not hosting a bubble. 

Bubbles were to make the competitions "safer", they were never intended to ensure players at European clubs get to participate.

I don't expect anything to get cancelled or any bubbles to be set up because of this.

[PiedPilko]

Kinda crazy that this could be the end of the road for Jamaica...  especially if it extends to Championship. Mexico's gonna be a lot worse off too.

[Unnamed Trialist]

One problem is FIFA lengthening the international window from 9 to 11 days, which the EPL protested last year. Now LaLiga is following EPL on players who'd have to quarantine upon returning, which is silly as Spain does not restrict S Americans (generally) or oblige quarantine,while the UK does. 

COMENBOL canceled a set of 3 matches last year and are behind in qualifying schedule. I'd imagine we'll get behind too, but have to say: our September set of matches is advantageous in all respects, with good travel and no visits to nations being restricted. 

Edited August 25, 2021 by Unnamed Trialist

[SpecialK]

19 minutes ago, Obinna said:

Like I said before, not getting players from European leagues may weaken the competition, but it doesn't put it in jepordy. Therefore, there is nothing for concacaf to plan for.

They just got to have the games and move forward despite the challenges. Certain teams may get screwed over (Jamaica for instance), but it's not concacaf's fault for not hosting a bubble. 

Bubbles were to make the competitions "safer", they were never intended to ensure players at European clubs get to participate.

I don't expect anything to get cancelled or any bubbles to be set up because of this.

If I am CONCACAF, I want the best players going head to head. CONCACAF is still considered a corrupt incompetent joke in the football world. Allowing teams to bring the best would help change that view. Canada , Jamaica and others have been able to get very talented players to play for their countries now because of poor planning Countries won’t be able to bring the best. 
 

as a Canadian fan I want our team to go head to head with best. It’s like gold cup, teams don’t bring there best and we have no idea where our team stands. Canada kick the shit of Costa Rica but Costa Rica didn’t have their best team but we didn’t either ? Is Canada better than Costa Rica? We don’t fully know. 
 

wait for it… other leagues are gonna do the same. 

[Obinna]

21 minutes ago, SpecialK said:

If I am CONCACAF, I want the best players going head to head. CONCACAF is still considered a corrupt incompetent joke in the football world. Allowing teams to bring the best would help change that view. Canada , Jamaica and others have been able to get very talented players to play for their countries now because of poor planning Countries won’t be able to bring the best. 
 

as a Canadian fan I want our team to go head to head with best. It’s like gold cup, teams don’t bring there best and we have no idea where our team stands. Canada kick the shit of Costa Rica but Costa Rica didn’t have their best team but we didn’t either ? Is Canada better than Costa Rica? We don’t fully know. 
 

wait for it… other leagues are gonna do the same. 

I definitley don't doubt it, but answer me this: at this stage do you really see concacaf hosting all the games in, say the usa, just so that Antonio, Jiminez, and Pulisic don't miss a few wcq games? That would be absurd even by concacaf standards.

I wouldn't rule out a bubble for the 2026 cycle, especially the way the world is going, but it's way too late in the game to shake things up this time around, even if they saw an opportunity in it.

Even for 2026, the countries with the most players in Europe will already be qualified as hosts, so I don't really see that incentive as strong.

Now if they want to just have a mega qualifying tournament in 2026 for the sole purpose of making money, I could see concacaf doing that. Still wouldn't bet on it though.

Edited August 25, 2021 by Obinna

[SpecialK]

10 minutes ago, Obinna said:

I definitley don't doubt it, but answer me this: at this stage do you really see concacaf hosting all the games in, say the usa, just so that Antonio, Jiminez, and Pulisic don't miss a few wcq games? That would be absurd even by concacaf standards.

I wouldn't rule out a bubble for the 2026 cycle, especially the way the world is going, but it's way too late in the game to shake things up this time around, even if they saw an opportunity in it.

Even for 2026, the countries with the most players in Europe will already be qualified as hosts, so I don't really see that incentive as strong.

Now if they want to just have a mega qualifying tournament in 2026 for the sole purpose of making money, I could see concacaf doing that. Still wouldn't bet on it though.

Money ! Canada or the US would make way more money if the best players are playing. Also If CSA and the Canadian Government worked together to create a bubble, we would look like saviours, plus ticket sales and you could promote the CPL and more. Oh wait dream land LOL we in Canada don’t think big. 

 

Edited August 25, 2021 by SpecialK

[WestHamCanadianinOxford]

6 hours ago, CanadaFan123 said:

Hypothetical question: if England were to play a country at home that was listed “red” would they except the visiting players or play at neutral ground? We all know the answer. 

They certainly would not accept visiting players without quarantine: they would enforce the rules of their country as it would give them an advantage. 

 

To me it is simple but in a different money driven way.  I saw this coming for a couple weeks. I had unique perspective in that I was looking at the rules because I am looking to travel from the UK and back in the near future and I care a lot about a particular possible Jamaican for a couple reasons.  But suddenly everyone cared because people realized it had an effect on Mo Salah and Liverpool. 

[Alex]

The whole red list country thing seems ridiculous. We know how to mitigate this issue, vaccination, testing and quarantine. The virus is in every country whether it’s 3rd world or not. I think the epl just loves the excuse so they can save their star players from travel and wear and tear. 

[narduch]

2 minutes ago, Alex said:

The whole red list country thing seems ridiculous. We know how to mitigate this issue, vaccination, testing and quarantine. The virus is in every country whether it’s 3rd world or not. I think the epl just loves the excuse so they can save their star players from travel and wear and tear. 

The most ridiculous part of it is the fact that the UK is actually one of the worst countries in the world in terms of case numbers.

A lot of the nations on the list are safer than the UK in covid terms

[Shway]

Does anyone think these league “hold backs” are going to actually work?

FIFA is the bigger authority, and I would like to believe that this is just scare tactics. 

No way these round of games go ahead if it holds, with some teams being drastically affected. It’s the same reason Concacaf made the second round because of the whole El Salavador/Canada thing. 

[Cblake]

8 minutes ago, narduch said:

The most ridiculous part of it is the fact that the UK is actually one of the worst countries in the world in terms of case numbers.

A lot of the nations on the list are safer than the UK in covid terms

At this point it is not about case numbers in my people's eyes at this point. It about vaccination rates, hospitalizations and ICU numbers. I do not know exactly what actions each country on the list is taking, but these measures the Premier League teams are taking are based on the mandates of the government. 

[Shway]

The fact FIFA hasn’t came out and said anything swiftly is alarming.

[WestHamCanadianinOxford]

21 minutes ago, Alex said:

The whole red list country thing seems ridiculous. We know how to mitigate this issue, vaccination, testing and quarantine. The virus is in every country whether it’s 3rd world or not. I think the epl just loves the excuse so they can save their star players from travel and wear and tear. 

That would be true if the law was with the Premier League and not the English government.  The mitigation ie. the 10 day quarantine on return is a government thing for everyone.  

Of course the Premier League has jumped on it, they wield a big financial and political stick but this is not just for footballers.

Edit: I will add if you think it is a government being ridiculous, it might be a topic for another board. 

Edited August 25, 2021 by WestHamCanadianinOxford

[narduch]

7 minutes ago, Shway said:

Does anyone think these league “hold backs” are going to actually work?

FIFA is the bigger authority, and I would like to believe that this is just scare tactics. 

No way these round of games go ahead if it holds, with some teams being drastically affected. It’s the same reason Concacaf made the second round because of the whole El Salavador/Canada thing. 

This is basically the EPL and La Liga being opportunistic.

I know not everyone agrees with me on this, and I'm a bit of a broken record. But for me the integrity of the competition is compromised if players have to be left out due to these regulations.

[narduch]

5 minutes ago, Shway said:

The fact FIFA hasn’t came out and said anything swiftly is alarming.

I believe last year FIFA sided with the clubs (ie. you didn't have to release a player if they had to quarantine upon return).

They will do it again.

[Floortom]

9 minutes ago, narduch said:

I believe last year FIFA sided with the clubs (ie. you didn't have to release a player if they had to quarantine upon return).

They will do it again.

FIFA is siding with Conmebol against the refusal of these clubs to release players and is saying the clubs will be sanctioned. I don’t know what those sanctions would be or how persuasive the threat is. At this point, with less than 5 days away for the travel I would be surprised if anything changes

[WestHamCanadianinOxford]

10 minutes ago, narduch said:

I believe last year FIFA sided with the clubs (ie. you didn't have to release a player if they had to quarantine upon return).

They will do it again.

Somewhere (I swear but can't find it now)  they said no exceptions were in force this window.  But things can change. 

[narduch]

3 minutes ago, Floortom said:

FIFA is siding with Conmebol against the refusal of these clubs to release players and is saying the clubs will be sanctioned. I don’t know what those sanctions would be or how persuasive the threat is. At this point, with less than 5 days away for the travel I would be surprised if anything changes

This is good to hear.

[JamboAl]

The compromise here would be: players get released.  But they will have to quarantine for the required number of days when they return.  The UK government didn’t provide an exemption for the British Lions tour overseas, don’t think they would do it for a bunch of non-UK citizens.

EDIT: thinking about this more, once those players are out of quarantine, they might only have another 14-21 days in the UK before they go overseas for the next qualifiers, come back and quarantine again.  The clubs won’t go for it.  The Chinese Super League cancelled their season until December so no going back and forth would have to happen.

[Alex]

29 minutes ago, WestHamCanadianinOxford said:

That would be true if the law was with the Premier League and not the English government.  The mitigation ie. the 10 day quarantine on return is a government thing for everyone.  

Of course the Premier League has jumped on it, they wield a big financial and political stick but this is not just for footballers.

Edit: I will add if you think it is a government being ridiculous, it might be a topic for another board. 

I’m not against government mandates, I’ve supported lockdowns, etc but I guess what I’m saying is that for professional athletes (who have access to all the money and resources from the national associations) there can be a much greater assurance that they will be safe from what’s happening in a red list country rather than if a regular citizen went there on vacation. 

[king1010]

42 minutes ago, Shway said:

The fact FIFA hasn’t came out and said anything swiftly is alarming.

 

 

[WestHamCanadianinOxford]

4 minutes ago, Alex said:

I’m not against government mandates, I’ve supported lockdowns, etc but I guess what I’m saying is that for professional athletes (who have access to all the money and resources from the national associations) there can be a much greater assurance that they will be safe from what’s happening in a red list country rather than if a regular citizen went there on vacation. 

Since the finances of the Canadian federation is an often questioned subject on here, I don't think the money and resources of someone like Jamaica can necessarily be counted on.  The English government that must account for the NHS has no control of how the federations protect their players, they are just looking at a handful of potential carriers.  Also as much as I like sports, I dislike double standards for sports people.  

[Obinna]

45 minutes ago, narduch said:

I believe last year FIFA sided with the clubs (ie. you didn't have to release a player if they had to quarantine upon return).

They will do it again.

See? You give an inch they take a mile.

Edited August 25, 2021 by Obinna

[WestHamCanadianinOxford]

40 minutes ago, JamboAl said:

The compromise here would be: players get released.  But they will have to quarantine for the required number of days when they return.  The UK government didn’t provide an exemption for the British Lions tour overseas, don’t think they would do it for a bunch of non-UK citizens.

EDIT: thinking about this more, once those players are out of quarantine, they might only have another 14-21 days in the UK before they go overseas for the next qualifiers, come back and quarantine again.  The clubs won’t go for it.  The Chinese Super League cancelled their season until December so no going back and forth would have to happen.

It is a compromise in a way, it is also the law as written, from both FIFA and UK government perspectives. 

To play devil's advocate to that but also from a vested club perspective.  Say Michail Antonio goes Jamaican and plays against Costa Rica.  The day he gets back to the UK - if he is lucky it will be the same day he plays, Sept 9th- that is day 0 of his 10 day quarantine.  He would miss 2 PL games and and Europa League game which is mostly likely away. 

You as a club are paying his wage decently large wage packet and you have lost him for three games with pay.  Now you might not play him some of those anyway but I can see why you would try to do something about it. 

Edit: I see your edit. 

Edited August 25, 2021 by WestHamCanadianinOxford