USA National Team Watch

[Free kick]

46 minutes ago, mrstepp817 said:

I'm sure its been said but the problem in CONCACF (if you view it as a problem) is the minnows in the Carribbean because of the "one country one vote" policy hold a ton of power and they want these tournaments in the US, they know they cant host them so they want it in the place where it'll make the most money

I do think Nations League semifinals being played in a home setting (based on some formula) would be a good compromise....I just cant see the Gold Cup leaving the US anytime soon

100%.   The gold cup will never be held outside the US,  its silly to even think so.   The US is the only place you can make money.  How many ppl are going to pay to go watch Jamaica vs Guatemala in any city in Canada.  
 

Having to play small island nations of 40 -100k is no good for anyone.  I have long ago given up paying to go watch that.  It doesnt prepare you for anything.  There are probably 12 out 35 nations in Concacaf that you can play against whereby that matchup will serve as proper preparation or evaluation.  For example,  It doesnt tell me anything about a player when that player scores a bucket goals against St. lucia or the Caymans.  

Edited November 30, 2022 by Free kick

[Mattd97]

25 minutes ago, Free kick said:

100%.   The gold cup will never be held outside the US,  its silly to even think so.   The US is the only place you can make money.  How many ppl are going to pay to go watch Jamaica vs Guatemala in any city in Canada.  
 

Having to play small island nations of 40 -100k is no good for anyone.  I have long ago given up paying to go watch that.  It doesnt prepare you for anything.  There are probably 12 out 35 nations in Concacaf that you can play against whereby that matchup will serve as proper preparation or evaluation.  For example,  It doesnt tell me anything about a player when that player scores a bucket goals against St. lucia or the Caymans.  

To be fair, with canadian immigration I'm pretty sure that's a bad example. As true as it never leaving the states may be. 

 

But also kimdve irrelevant, I don't think the point is that it should move but rather that it buoys the states success and fifa ranking. 

 

 

[mrstepp817]

2 hours ago, Mattd97 said:

To be fair, with canadian immigration I'm pretty sure that's a bad example. As true as it never leaving the states may be. 

 

But also kimdve irrelevant, I don't think the point is that it should move but rather that it buoys the states success and fifa ranking. 

 

 

I think it does help having the games at home but for example when the US plays Mexico in the Gold Cup it doesn't feel like a US home game lol....there are also years where the US (and Mexico for that matter) dont send first choice lineups to the Gold Cup as well, yet they still count for FIFA ranking purposes

For example this summer there's a Gold Cup...I imagine for USA, Mexico and Canada its going to be B-squads playing for the most part...

[BearcatSA]

We always see a player's stock rise or fall on this highest stage but one guy who is on a rising road at the moment is Adams.  His awareness, pace, and engine room with covering make him an attacking fullback's/wingback's best friend.

[DrunkOffPunch]

5 hours ago, Mattd97 said:

Helps to play all of your continental championships at home

 

(Been mentioned 1000 times, but needs to be said 1001)

Half your team plays their club games in the US. How is a well maintained grass pitch in a stadium most your players are familiar with a disadvantage? Heck you guys have played ‘home’ games in the US. So has Mexico. The only place where I believe in some sort of home field advantage (again, outside of possibly altitudes players aren’t familiar with or crap fields) is American collegiate sports and to a less extent their professional counterparts. Most of that is due to the amount of travel players have to go through.

 

There’s plenty of professional sports teams that have their stadiums less than 10 miles apart. I don’t believe just because they’re playing in a different part of town it’s going to make a meaningful impact on the game. These are professional players and adults. Home team wins they say the home crowd willed them to a win. Away team wins they say they fed off silencing the home crowd or whatever.

[jonovision]

18 minutes ago, DrunkOffPunch said:

Half your team plays their club games in the US. How is a well maintained grass pitch in a stadium most your players are familiar with a disadvantage? Heck you guys have played ‘home’ games in the US. So has Mexico. The only place where I believe in some sort of home field advantage (again, outside of possibly altitudes players aren’t familiar with or crap fields) is American collegiate sports and to a less extent their professional counterparts. Most of that is due to the amount of travel players have to go through.

 

There’s plenty of professional sports teams that have their stadiums less than 10 miles apart. I don’t believe just because they’re playing in a different part of town it’s going to make a meaningful impact on the game. These are professional players and adults. Home team wins they say the home crowd willed them to a win. Away team wins they say they fed off silencing the home crowd or whatever.

Do you mean to suggest that USA has gained no performance advantage from hosting every Gold Cup?

[Mattd97]

20 minutes ago, DrunkOffPunch said:

Half your team plays their club games in the US. How is a well maintained grass pitch in a stadium most your players are familiar with a disadvantage? Heck you guys have played ‘home’ games in the US. So has Mexico. The only place where I believe in some sort of home field advantage (again, outside of possibly altitudes players aren’t familiar with or crap fields) is American collegiate sports and to a less extent their professional counterparts. Most of that is due to the amount of travel players have to go through.

 

There’s plenty of professional sports teams that have their stadiums less than 10 miles apart. I don’t believe just because they’re playing in a different part of town it’s going to make a meaningful impact on the game. These are professional players and adults. Home team wins they say the home crowd willed them to a win. Away team wins they say they fed off silencing the home crowd or whatever.

2022 (minus world cup as thats its own beast); usmnt playing in america 5-1-0. usmnt playing outside america 0-3-3

 

but yes canada just was dreaming of playing their home games in the states  

[DrunkOffPunch]

8 minutes ago, jonovision said:

Do you mean to suggest that USA has gained no performance advantage from hosting every Gold Cup?

If there is I don’t think it’s meaningful. How many countries avoid certain areas of their country when selecting WCQ venues? The US isn’t losing to Martinique just because it’s played in Monterrey.

[DrunkOffPunch]

8 minutes ago, Mattd97 said:

2022 (minus world cup as thats its own beast); usmnt playing in america 5-1-0. usmnt playing outside america 0-3-3

 

but yes canada just was dreaming of playing their home games in the states  

And yet the US in the World Cup have looked the better side in every game, have advanced, and only allowed 1 goal which was a penalty. Tell me; when Canada lost to Honduras, if you had taken pitch and moved it to Canada would you have won? Or was it the fact that the pitch itself was absolute shit it created a chaotic environment where anything could happen? If the pitch wasn’t waterlogged do you think you would’ve won? 
 

I’m not saying Canada wants to play home matches in the US. I’m saying the fact it was played outside Canada had no meaningful impact on the game.

[gigi riva]

To compare Us with the Americans is utterly ubsurd , They have 10 times the player pool we do , 100 time more Clubs than us, Yes I think we are quietly closing the gap and will continue too  I believe . Our record vvs them in the last  5 games is not bad at least in the senior level   2 W  1 D 2 L  for a total of 7 points ot of a possible 15 . We just need wiser investment in our youth programs 

[InglewoodJack]

Berhalter was wearing the fly custom 1/1 Jordans designed just for him at their game against Iran. Would Canada even gift Herdman a pair of Keds? Would they ask for them back after the game?

[youllneverwalkalone]

That's funny, I thought Berhalter was more of an Air Monarchs kind of guy.

[Kent]

1 hour ago, DrunkOffPunch said:

Half your team plays their club games in the US. How is a well maintained grass pitch in a stadium most your players are familiar with a disadvantage? Heck you guys have played ‘home’ games in the US. So has Mexico. The only place where I believe in some sort of home field advantage (again, outside of possibly altitudes players aren’t familiar with or crap fields) is American collegiate sports and to a less extent their professional counterparts. Most of that is due to the amount of travel players have to go through.

 

There’s plenty of professional sports teams that have their stadiums less than 10 miles apart. I don’t believe just because they’re playing in a different part of town it’s going to make a meaningful impact on the game. These are professional players and adults. Home team wins they say the home crowd willed them to a win. Away team wins they say they fed off silencing the home crowd or whatever.

This is an absurd take. Home field advantage is imaginary apparently.

Oct points per game for each team, home and away.

Canada
Home: 2.71
Away: 1.28

Mexico
Home: 2.14
Away: 1.86

USA
Home: 2.71
Away: 0.85

Costa Rica
Home: 2.29
Away: 1.29

Panama
Home: 2.14
Away: 0.86

Jamaica
Home: 0.86
Away: 0.71

El Salvador
Home: 0.86
Away: 0.57

Honduras
Home: 0.14
Away: 0.43

Only Honduras had a better record away than at home, and historically they have had much better results at home than away. 4 teams had a more than 1 point per game improvement in their home record vs their away record. You brought up the bad pitch in our Nations League game against Honduras. In 2018 and 2014 qualifying I don't think there were any problems with the pitch, but in 2018 qualifying we beat them 1-0 at home, and lost 2-1 to them on the road. In 2014 qualifying we tied them 0-0 at home, and I don't think I need to tell you that we did worse against them on the road.

I know it's unlikely the Gold Cup gets moved out of the USA, but I'm still going to dream it happens. Sure more money can be made in the USA than other places, but it would be better for the competition side of things for it to be moved around. If every single Gold Cup had been held in Central America instead of the USA, I guarantee you USA would have fewer titles, and a Central American team likely would have won it by now, perhaps a couple different Central American teams.

[youllneverwalkalone]

Who knew? Even Honduras doesn't like playing in Honduras... 

[Obinna]

22 hours ago, DrunkOffPunch said:

Sure the games are on US soil, but is it home field advantage when US fans are in the minority in some games? Do you think Canadian players would get pelted by trash if they scored a goal and celebrated it in a Canadian stadium? TBH home field advantage is vastly overrated anyway. UEFA got rid of away goals for that very reason. The only real home field advantage IMO in CONCACAF is Azteca since it’s at such a high altitude and the occasional Central American teams if their pitches are in such bad shape it creates chaos against a superior team.

For me Canada (aside from the minnows) is the only team without a large contingent of fans at the Gold Cup. Mexico, El Salvador, Guatemala, Honduras....and to a lesser extent Costa Rica, Jamaica, Panama always outnumber Canada fans in the stands. For the USA it's really only Mexico and maybe El Salvador that can outnumber American fans (depending on location). Guatemala and Honduras would be 50/50 at worst, most times. The USA therefore has an undeniable advantage compared to Canada when it comes to the Gold Cup, and to suggest otherwise by downplaying home field advantage is quite disingenuous.

Now to be fair, the USA also have more talent, more pathways, more money, and more history of success in the sport, so if Gold Cup was shared they'd still have more trophies than Canada, but for the Gold Cup home field advantage is not insignificant and it does put into question their success, at least relative to Canada.

Edited November 30, 2022 by Obinna

[DrunkOffPunch]

2 hours ago, Kent said:

This is an absurd take. Home field advantage is imaginary apparently.

Oct points per game for each team, home and away.

Canada
Home: 2.71
Away: 1.28

Mexico
Home: 2.14
Away: 1.86

USA
Home: 2.71
Away: 0.85

Costa Rica
Home: 2.29
Away: 1.29

Panama
Home: 2.14
Away: 0.86

Jamaica
Home: 0.86
Away: 0.71

El Salvador
Home: 0.86
Away: 0.57

Honduras
Home: 0.14
Away: 0.43

Only Honduras had a better record away than at home, and historically they have had much better results at home than away. 4 teams had a more than 1 point per game improvement in their home record vs their away record. You brought up the bad pitch in our Nations League game against Honduras. In 2018 and 2014 qualifying I don't think there were any problems with the pitch, but in 2018 qualifying we beat them 1-0 at home, and lost 2-1 to them on the road. In 2014 qualifying we tied them 0-0 at home, and I don't think I need to tell you that we did worse against them on the road.

I know it's unlikely the Gold Cup gets moved out of the USA, but I'm still going to dream it happens. Sure more money can be made in the USA than other places, but it would be better for the competition side of things for it to be moved around. If every single Gold Cup had been held in Central America instead of the USA, I guarantee you USA would have fewer titles, and a Central American team likely would have won it by now, perhaps a couple different Central American teams.

I’ve said what I think constitutes as a home field advantage in this thread. People would have me believe the US had some sort of advantage in the gold cup final for the simple fact the game was played on US soil. Doesn’t matter that the vast majority of the crowd was pro Mexico. 
 

 

Edited November 30, 2022 by DrunkOffPunch

[Ansem]

7 minutes ago, DrunkOffPunch said:

I’ve said what I think constitutes as a home field advantage in this thread. People would have me believe the US had some sort of advantage in the gold cup final for the simple fact the game was played on US soil. Doesn’t matter that the vast majority of the crowd was pro Mexico. 
 

 

You can keep your head in the sand but if half those Gold Cups were in Mexico or elsewhere. They aren't a top 15 team nor in group B, that's just fact when you seed how one-sided their performance is between home and away.

No they don't necessarily control where all the Gold Cups are played, granted. They are still a good team but all those home games will always have people question how good they actually are.

[DrunkOffPunch]

12 minutes ago, Ansem said:

You can keep your head in the sand but if half those Gold Cups were in Mexico or elsewhere. They aren't a top 15 team nor in group B, that's just fact when you seed how one-sided their performance is between home and away.

No they don't necessarily control where all the Gold Cups are played, granted. They are still a good team but all those home games will always have people question how good they actually are.

You’re arguing what ifs. I don’t have a problem with Mexico hosting the gold cup. You do realize it’s CONCACAF that decides where the gold cup is played right? You’re obviously just arguing with me because I’m American. First it’s ‘fifa ranking’. Still in pot 2 in elo, ok then it’s home games. Yes because obviously the US is going to lose to Cuba because the games is south of the border. As long as the pitch is good, I don’t care. I’m not going to say ‘well imagine if this World Cup was on US soil, we could’ve won the group’. Stuff like that is pointless. Yep, we outplayed England and got stuck with 2 pot 3 teams due to the war in Ukraine, but go ahead, keep trying to convince me we don’t deserve it. If Canada beats Morocco, I’ll gladly come back here and congratulate you guys. Just like when I did when you beat Mexico, or when you qualified. 
 

Don’t throw stones in a glass house. Canada wouldn’t have been in the World Cup at all if it wasn’t for Covid and a Canadian president. But I’m glad that was changed. Canada earned that spot. 

[BearcatSA]

3 hours ago, youllneverwalkalone said:

That's funny, I thought Berhalter was more of an Air Monarchs kind of guy.

Easy there.  Them's fightin' words!

[Unnamed Trialist]

4 hours ago, Kent said:

This is an absurd take. Home field advantage is imaginary apparently.

Oct points per game for each team, home and away.

Canada
Home: 2.71
Away: 1.28

Mexico
Home: 2.14
Away: 1.86

USA
Home: 2.71
Away: 0.85

Costa Rica
Home: 2.29
Away: 1.29

Panama
Home: 2.14
Away: 0.86

Jamaica
Home: 0.86
Away: 0.71

El Salvador
Home: 0.86
Away: 0.57

Honduras
Home: 0.14
Away: 0.43

Only Honduras had a better record away than at home, and historically they have had much better results at home than away. 4 teams had a more than 1 point per game improvement in their home record vs their away record. You brought up the bad pitch in our Nations League game against Honduras. In 2018 and 2014 qualifying I don't think there were any problems with the pitch, but in 2018 qualifying we beat them 1-0 at home, and lost 2-1 to them on the road. In 2014 qualifying we tied them 0-0 at home, and I don't think I need to tell you that we did worse against them on the road.

I know it's unlikely the Gold Cup gets moved out of the USA, but I'm still going to dream it happens. Sure more money can be made in the USA than other places, but it would be better for the competition side of things for it to be moved around. If every single Gold Cup had been held in Central America instead of the USA, I guarantee you USA would have fewer titles, and a Central American team likely would have won it by now, perhaps a couple different Central American teams.

Excellent.

It's a regional competition and should be rotated. Even one in the US every 2 years. One if the groups in another country. We're the only FIFA Confederation that doesn't do it.

[grigorio]

2 hours ago, DrunkOffPunch said:

I’ve said what I think constitutes as a home field advantage in this thread. People would have me believe the US had some sort of advantage in the gold cup final for the simple fact the game was played on US soil. Doesn’t matter that the vast majority of the crowd was pro Mexico. 
 

 

Of course it’s still an advantage though I’m surprised you’re tripling down. Canada hasn’t even lost a competitive match at BMO field despite many of those games having far more away supporters than home supporters. 

[DrunkOffPunch]

6 minutes ago, grigorio said:

Of course it’s still an advantage though I’m surprised you’re tripling down. Canada hasn’t even lost a competitive match at BMO field despite many of those games having far more away supporters than home supporters. 

Canada can beat any team in CONCACAF. What benefits them and teams like the US is a proper pitch to play on. Central American teams don’t really have that. If BMO was waterlogged like the Honduras game do you think it would benefit Canada or an inferior team like Honduras? 
 

Take those same stats from earlier and take out the US and Canada, the two teams that had the furthest travel distances and benefit the most from a good pitch. All of a sudden half the teams don’t have a positive point differential at home compared to away. 

[Kent]

4 hours ago, DrunkOffPunch said:

I’ve said what I think constitutes as a home field advantage in this thread. People would have me believe the US had some sort of advantage in the gold cup final for the simple fact the game was played on US soil. Doesn’t matter that the vast majority of the crowd was pro Mexico. 
 

 

You are missing the point. USA has a better chance in that final in the USA even with a pro Mexican crowd than it would have if that game had been played in Mexico, or Guatemala, or Honduras, or Costa Rica, or wherever. I posted some facts, and that was even with some COVID restrictions reducing the advantage of playing at home, but you still don't believe in it. Only for some reason in College Football does it matter. Apparently not in the NBA either, despite, you know, virtually every team having a better record at home than away. Must be a lot of water logged courts in the NBA.

Regardless of whether USA hosted every tournament, they would still be one of the 2 best in this region, I have no doubt about that. But I am also 100% certain their record in the Gold Cup would not be as good if they didn't host every single year.

USA are 0-1 in away games in the Gold Cup, with 4 goals against and 0 goals for. And for what it's worth, Canada is undefeated at home in the Gold Cup, with a single 0-0 draw.

Edit: I should add, Mexico are undefeated at home in the Gold Cup as well, with 8 wins, 2 draws, 37 goals for, 2 goals against, including 2 wins against Brazil. I know, you said Mexico is the only team in the CONCACAF that has an actual home field advantage.

Costa Rica is 1-0 in home games in the Gold Cup, with a 4-0 win.

Jamaica is 1-0 in home games in the Gold Cup as well, with a 3-2 win.

Edited December 1, 2022 by Kent

[Ansem]

Let's not move the goalposts here. When was the last time the US beat Canada IN Canada?

It's funny some are still trying to make the case that Gold Cups being only in the US don't matter when the stats says otherwise. The cup being rotated means the US would be less likely to have rake up all those points over a long period of time (with multipliers) and probably less cups.

It is what it is, we all understand the rationale to hold all the cups in the US and that doesn't mean the US is any less talented than it is - that's ok, we'll take the extra road games.

However, coming here and act like it doesn't matter where they play (statistics says otherwise) causing people to question "how good overall" the team really is - that's rich.

The US are a good team and has good talent - take the W, no need for the embellishment

Edited December 1, 2022 by Ansem

[DrunkOffPunch]

33 minutes ago, Kent said:

You are missing the point. USA has a better chance in that final in the USA even with a pro Mexican crowd than it would have if that game had been played in Mexico, or Guatemala, or Honduras, or Costa Rica, or wherever. I posted some facts, and that was even with some COVID restrictions reducing the advantage of playing at home, but you still don't believe in it. Only for some reason in College Football does it matter. Apparently not in the NBA either, despite, you know, virtually every team having a better record at home than away. Must be a lot of water logged courts in the NBA.

 

You’re being dishonest. 

 

9 hours ago, DrunkOffPunch said:

American collegiate sports and to a less extent their professional counterparts. Most of that is due to the amount of travel players have to go through.

 

There’s plenty of professional sports teams that have their stadiums less than 10 miles apart. I don’t believe just because they’re playing in a different part of town it’s going to make a meaningful impact on the game. These are professional players and adults. Home team wins they say the home crowd willed them to a win. Away team wins they say they fed off silencing the home crowd or whatever.

Lesser extent because I believe a crowd is more likely to affect 18-22 year olds than it is is adults. And the travel. That’s a pretty big thing that’s mostly unique to the US. The NBA has by far the highest home winning record in major sports. There’s 1230 games a season with little rest compared to most other high intensity sports. You’re seeing teams hold out players for load management.
 

In the past 2 NFL seasons the home team has a winning record of 50.95%. That’s in 544 games. Is that .95% divided amongst 544 games enough evidence to sway a single game one way or the other? IMO no. Unless people stop skirting around the questions I’ve posed I see no reason to answer yours. This entire thing started because ansem is salty the US made it out of the group stage. We were the better team in all 3 games and deserved to advance so this entire discussion is pointless.

 

For the last time, I have not said that home field advantage is not a thing. I however, do think saying home field advantage makes a major impact on a singular game to be an overreach. There are tons of variables on why a team wins or loses. The vast majority of the time, the winning team is simply the better team.