USA National Team Watch

[Free kick]

1 hour ago, VinceA said:

They do. But it seems you're gonna refute anything I say so I won't bother anymore. Well done to them. Unfortunate we didn't take our chances against Belgium and were poorly set up and ultimately outclassed by Croatia.

I agree.  They have good talent. But they didn't even have to play well in order to advance to round of 16.  Thats the benefit of having been good over a longer period and hence, getting in POT 2 and getting a good WC draw.   To advance without even playing well is also sign that you are a good team.  Some people here, when you talk about their MNT, have this anti-american view or this euro snobbery and they let that cloud their judgement and overlook the fact that the US are a pretty good team on paper.  They have more talent playing for better clubs compared to Canada.  they have fewer weak spots.   And they are far more sound than us defensively and in goal.   Being sound defensively is critical at the WC finals.

Edited November 29, 2022 by Free kick

[Free kick]

2 hours ago, Ansem said:

England wasn't "England" against the US. 

Oh please!  🙄   The typical English view of things.    If they lose, it because they didnt try or someone else cheated or its due to some "act of god" bad luck that only happens to them and no one else.  I suppose that they said the same thing (i.e.: England wasn't "England") when they drew 1-1 against the US in the 2010 WC.  When is the last time that England beat them at a WC?

Edited November 30, 2022 by Free kick

[Ansem]

21 minutes ago, Free kick said:

I agree.  They have good talent. But they didn't even have to play well in order to advance to round of 16.  Thats the benefit of having been good over a longer period and hence, getting in POT 2 and getting a good draw.   To adnace without even playing well is also sign that you are a good team.  Some people here, when you talk about their MNT, have this anti-american view or this euro snobbery and they let that cloud their judgement and overlook the fact that they are pretty team good on paper.  They have talent playing for better clubs compared to Canada.  they have fewer weak spots.   And they are far more sound than us defensively and in goal.   

FIFA ranking? Really?

Edited November 29, 2022 by Ansem

[WestHamCanadianinOxford]

14 minutes ago, Free kick said:

Oh please!  🙄   The typical English view of things.    If they lose, it because someone else cheated or they didnt try. Or its some "act of god" bad luck that only happens to them and no one else.  I suppose that they said the same thing (i.e.: England wasn't "England") when they drew 1-1 against the US in the 2010 WC.  When is the last time that England beat them at a WC?

Robert Green, West Ham represent.

Never have, only played 3 times 0-2-1.

Maybe they will meet in the final. 

[DrunkOffPunch]

6 minutes ago, Ansem said:

FIFA ranking? Really?

Still would’ve been in pot 2 going by elo. 

[Unnamed Trialist]

1 minute ago, DrunkOffPunch said:

Still would’ve been in pot 2 going by elo. 

We would have been in pot 3 beating Panama away, think it was. Don't even know if we needed to draw Costa Rica, it was just beat Panama.

I think we'll find all our comments, I was one, saying "oh little does it matter, pot 3 or 4", was wrong. 

With the US, or Mexico, we just have to be a team that consistently, not always, but with certain frequency, can beat them. Like in the semis and finals of a Gold Cup. And I am not saying it for the rankings, I'm saying for the trophies.

[Ansem]

8 minutes ago, DrunkOffPunch said:

Still would’ve been in pot 2 going by elo. 

Getting all those games and win at home helps for sure. We all know they are a good/great team at home but for their record on the road does invite some skepticism on where they actually rank.

There's nothing anti-american to point that out. 

Edited November 29, 2022 by Ansem

[Ansem]

2 minutes ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

We would have been in pot 3 beating Panama away, think it was. Don't even know if we needed to draw Costa Rica, it was just beat Panama.

I think we'll find all our comments, I was one, saying "oh little does it matter, pot 3 or 4", was wrong. 

With the US, or Mexico, we just have to be a team that consistently, not always, but with certain frequency, can beat them. Like in the semis and finals of a Gold Cup. And I am not saying it for the rankings, I'm saying for the trophies.

Helps when you play those cups at home 100% of the time...

[Kadenge]

Let's face it, if the US plays to its potential they should be #1 in our region. Their team is stacked with young talent, they just never seemed to put it all together during WCQ. They had 13 players on their squad today in top 5 leagues, including 6 EPL, 2 Serie A, 2 La liga, 2 Bundesliga and 1 in Ligue 1. Not all are starters but just compare that to our squad. We did extremely well in WCQ, but at this level it's very hard to knock off teams with superior talent not to mention experience

[DrunkOffPunch]

17 minutes ago, Ansem said:

Getting all those games and win at home helps for sure. We all know they are a good/great team at home but for their record on the road does invite some skepticism on where they actually rank.

There's nothing anti-american to point that out. 

Sure the games are on US soil, but is it home field advantage when US fans are in the minority in some games? Do you think Canadian players would get pelted by trash if they scored a goal and celebrated it in a Canadian stadium? TBH home field advantage is vastly overrated anyway. UEFA got rid of away goals for that very reason. The only real home field advantage IMO in CONCACAF is Azteca since it’s at such a high altitude and the occasional Central American teams if their pitches are in such bad shape it creates chaos against a superior team.

[Obinna]

20 minutes ago, Kadenge said:

Let's face it, if the US plays to its potential they should be #1 in our region. Their team is stacked with young talent, they just never seemed to put it all together during WCQ. They had 13 players on their squad today in top 5 leagues, including 6 EPL, 2 Serie A, 2 La liga, 2 Bundesliga and 1 in Ligue 1. Not all are starters but just compare that to our squad. We did extremely well in WCQ, but at this level it's very hard to knock off teams with superior talent not to mention experience

It's true. I envy their depth and ability to rotate. Didn't CCV come into the line up today? Celtic mainstay who only earned his 12th cap, despite being part of the program for many years. Contrast that with Johnston, who earned his 32nd cap over the weekend, who is on the verge of joining Celtic, and who may or may not be a starter depending on what happens with Juranovic this winter/summer. That sort of puts into perspective the depth of teams like USA and Croatia, and hopefully shows how badly we need to get our players in big environments of any kind (not just the big 5 leagues).

Edit - While on the topic, I think it's only fair to lump teams like Club Brugge and Porto (and Celtic) into the "top 5 leagues" grouping - even though they don't technically play in top 5 leagues.

By that metric the USA can boast 14 "high calibre" players.

Canada? Just 5 (soon to be 6 when Johnston joins Celtic)...

And if you want to really stretch the case, you can include Besiktas. However, when you go down the list to clubs like Red Star and Basel you may as well include Reading, Blackpool, etc. From there you're really just be grasping at straws and not talking about "high calibre" anymore. These are all decent enough destinations, don't get me wrong, but approaching 2026 I want to see our depth reach the point where guys playing for these sort of clubs (along with MLS clubs) are at the edges of our pool, not forming the core of it. 

Edited November 29, 2022 by Obinna

[Obinna]

1 minute ago, DrunkOffPunch said:

Sure the games are on US soil, but is it home field advantage when US fans are in the minority in some games? Do you think Canadian players would get pelted by trash if they scored a goal and celebrated it in a Canadian stadium? TBH home field advantage is vastly overrated anyway. UEFA got rid of away goals for that very reason. The only real home field advantage IMO in CONCACAF is Azteca since it’s at such a high altitude and the occasional Central American teams if their pitches are in such bad shape it creates chaos against a superior team.

The only team in CONCACAF that doesn't have a home field advantage in the Gold Cup is Canada, but hopefully that changes as the country continues to fall in love with the "New Canada".

[Free kick]

Aside from Gareth Southgate, every England manager since Alf Ramsay predicted England will win the World Cup when they have not.   Only Alf Ramsay was right in 1966.  England often loses to former War time enemies, Germany or Argentina or even the US in 1950.    To an earlier point that every time England loses its that they didnt try or someone else cheated or its some "act of god" bad luck that only happens to them and no one else:  

1)  the England got cheated excuse:  

in 1950 and in 1970 they supposedly got cheated because the Brazilian crowd (1950) and the Mexican crowd (1970) who cheated by deliberately keeping the ball and wasting time.   Then they got cheated because Diego Maradona's hand of god and Diego Simeone's play acting to get Beckham sent off or (some even say) the CIA drugged Gordon Banks.    Then its the referees who cheated England and often the referee's nationality is mentioned along with his name (or not) in order to further blacken him.  

2) the England was a victim of an act of god excuse:

The examples of the "freakish accident" excuse include Ronaldino's goal in 2002 against David Seaman.  Or that Rooney would never have been sent off for stomping on the Portuguese player's balls had he not been taunted by Cristiano Ronaldo.  Then there is the Robert Green miscue for the draw versus the US, though that didnt eliminate them.  Or some so called " Clown of a Goalkeeper" from Poland who had a great game in 1973 that eliminated England and prevented them from playing at the WC finals.  Or the freakish accident of Paul Gascoine getting a second yellow and missing the semi final in 1990. 

And on and on, I could give many example.  Its NEVER because of their talent that they lose, thats what we are told.   And they always overlook that a game is 90 minutes long, so you have time to make up for getting cheated (supposedly) or redeem a miscue.  Shit happens to many teams at the WC.

Here is how I always see England at the WC: they are a very good team.   They are going to beat most teams most of the time.  But very rarely beat an outstanding side like a top 6-10 team in the world.  They grossly overrate their talent.

Edited November 30, 2022 by Free kick

[Ansem]

9 minutes ago, DrunkOffPunch said:

Sure the games are on US soil, but is it home field advantage when US fans are in the minority in some games? Do you think Canadian players would get pelted by trash if they scored a goal and celebrated it in a Canadian stadium? TBH home field advantage is vastly overrated anyway. UEFA got rid of away goals for that very reason. The only real home field advantage IMO in CONCACAF is Azteca since it’s at such a high altitude and the occasional Central American teams if their pitches are in such bad shape it creates chaos against a superior team.

Home field advantage might be overrated, but it's still a factor, why did they miss 2018 again? To your point, if half those Gold cups where in Mexico, you think they'd be a top 15 team today with as many trophies?

That's beside the point, they are a good team but I don't buy the " huge gap" anymore. It's much closer now and as I said in another thread - this region is wide open and I feel that not winning one of the 2 CONCACAF trophies in 2023 should be a disappointment 

Edited November 29, 2022 by Ansem

[TGAA_Star]

USA USA USA USA!!! Congratulations to the USA as they may be CONCACAF's only hope especially since Canada is eliminated and Mexico it doesn't look like they are getting out of the group. Costa Rica probably won't either.

[harrycoyster]

I must say that I'm thrilled that the US is going out there and showing the world that CONCACAF is capable of playing some truly good soccer, given the performances we've seen from the US, Costa Rica et al in previous tournaments. That's three games on the trot the US deserved to win on the quality of play.

As annoying as some of their personalities may be I'm glad us and the Americans are the new faces of CONCACAF given the time wasting, diving anti-soccer we've seen from Costa Rica and Mexico over the past 6 years.  

[DrunkOffPunch]

14 minutes ago, Ansem said:

Home field advantage might be overrated, but it's still a factor, why did they miss 2018 again? To your point, if half those Gold cups where in Mexico, you think they'd be a top 15 team today with as many trophies?

That's beside the point, they are a good team but I don't buy the " huge gap" anymore. It's much closer now and as I said in another thread - this region is wide open and I feel that not winning one of the 2 CONCACAF trophies in 2023 should be a disappointment 

The saying for Hex was always win at home draw on the road and you’ll qualify. By that mark we dropped 6 points at home and 2 on the road.

Never said anything like that. I think Canada have a good squad with top end talent. Davies is something special. I however don’t think Johnston is going is going to make an error because he’s on foreign soil even though he’s played more games in said stadium than some US players. I don’t think Davies will scuff a shot because the crowd isn’t chanting Canada. He’s played in the biggest club games in the world.
 

 

[Kent]

4 hours ago, Ansem said:

It's not about refuting everything you say but I think our team deserve a bit more credit and I think results do matter

This tweet below does put things in perspective - I think my reservation towards the true measure of their strength as a whole is warranted

I think we're still the most improved team in the region and most dangerous.

Now as most US fans like to defer to when results don't count, then yes - depth and individual guys / who plays where is a whole different debate

I was curious what our list looks like. Here are our competitive wins not played in Canada since the 2014 World Cup.

2021 El Salvador - WCQ
2021 Honduras - WCQ
2021 Costa Rica - Gold Cup
2021 Haiti - Gold Cup
2021 Martinique - Gold Cup
*2021 Haiti - WCQ (in Chicago, officially a home game)
2021 Haiti - WCQ
*2021 Suriname - WCQ (Chicago)
*2021 Aruba - WCQ (Florida)
*2021 Cayman Islands - WCQ (Florida)
*2021 Bermuda - WCQ (Florida)
2019 Cuba - Nations League
2019 Cuba - Gold Cup
2019 Martinique - Gold Cup
2018 Saint Kitts and Nevis - Nations League Qualifying
*2018 US Virgin Islands - Nations League Qualifying (Florida)
2017 French Guiana - Gold Cup
2015 Dominica - WCQ

* neutral venue, I'm pretty sure with no fans, or next to no fans.

[youllneverwalkalone]

[Unnamed Trialist]

9 hours ago, Ansem said:

Helps when you play those cups at home 100% of the time...

Agree. At least rotate the Nations League final four. Rotate as a lead up to the WC. Do Gold Cups that reflect the 2026 setup.

 

[SoccMan]

11 hours ago, Free kick said:

I agree.  They have good talent. But they didn't even have to play well in order to advance to round of 16.  Thats the benefit of having been good over a longer period and hence, getting in POT 2 and getting a good WC draw.   To advance without even playing well is also sign that you are a good team.  Some people here, when you talk about their MNT, have this anti-american view or this euro snobbery and they let that cloud their judgement and overlook the fact that the US are a pretty good team on paper.  They have more talent playing for better clubs compared to Canada.  they have fewer weak spots.   And they are far more sound than us defensively and in goal.   Being sound defensively is critical at the WC finals.

I think they actually did play well the scores are not indicative of their play , the game against England I think tactically Berhalter was spot on . Unfortunately for Canada Herdman as good as he has been , against Croatia  tactically this loss was on him .  I’m not surprised about the US advancing out of their group they have now done that a few times at World Cups . 

Edited November 30, 2022 by SoccMan

[TGAA_Star]

2 hours ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

Agree. At least rotate the Nations League final four. Rotate as a lead up to the WC. Do Gold Cups that reflect the 2026 setup.

 

Yeah that's the way to progress and grow the game in CONCACAF by having other countries other than the USA hosting all the time

[TGAA_Star]

USA face the Netherlands in the Round of 16 and honestly that's a match up I can't wait for

[Mattd97]

13 hours ago, DrunkOffPunch said:

Still would’ve been in pot 2 going by elo. 

Helps to play all of your continental championships at home

 

(Been mentioned 1000 times, but needs to be said 1001)

Edited November 30, 2022 by Mattd97

[mrstepp817]

I'm sure its been said but the problem in CONCACF (if you view it as a problem) is the minnows in the Carribbean because of the "one country one vote" policy hold a ton of power and they want these tournaments in the US, they know they cant host them so they want it in the place where it'll make the most money

I do think Nations League semifinals being played in a home setting (based on some formula) would be a good compromise....I just cant see the Gold Cup leaving the US anytime soon