USA National Team Watch

[Shway]

Lol you guys are arguing logic with an American. 

The main reason, and the only reason is money.

[Ansem]

Just now, Shway said:

Lol you guys are arguing logic with an American. 

The main reason, and the only reason is money.

And that they aren't winning world cups because LeBron James chose basketball 

[DrunkOffPunch]

3 minutes ago, Shway said:

Lol you guys are arguing logic with an American. 

Listen, I’ve been respectful in the time I’ve been here. I would expect the same in return. I’m not here to gloat when the US wins or when Canada loses. Just to have conversation/debate which is the entire point of forums. 

[Kent]

6 minutes ago, DrunkOffPunch said:

You’re being dishonest. 

 

Lesser extent because I believe a crowd is more likely to affect 18-22 year olds than it is is adults. And the travel. That’s a pretty big thing that’s mostly unique to the US. The NBA has by far the highest home winning record in major sports. There’s 1230 games a season with little rest compared to most other high intensity sports. You’re seeing teams hold out players for load management.
 

In the past 2 NFL seasons the home team has a winning record of 50.95%. That’s in 544 games. Is that .95% divided amongst 544 games enough evidence to sway a single game one way or the other? IMO no. Unless people stop skirting around the questions I’ve posed I see no reason to answer yours. This entire thing started because ansem is salty the US made it out of the group stage. We were the better team in all 3 games and deserved to advance so this entire discussion is pointless.

 

For the last time, I have not said that home field advantage is not a thing. I however, do think saying home field advantage makes a major impact on a singular game to be an overreach. There are tons of variables on why a team wins or loses. The vast majority of the time, the winning team is simply the better team. 

I apologise for one thing, I misread "collegiate sports" as college football, and then thought "their professional counterparts" was referring to the NFL. That's why I brought up the NBA, because I thought you were excluding it.

I'm not sure if that's why you thought I was being dishonest? If it's not, I don't know what you are talking about. Is it because I think USA has a better chance of beating Mexico in a Gold Cup final in USA than it would in Mexico, or Central America? Or was it the home field stats that I mentioned which are 100% factual?

If home field advantage is only about long distance travelling and crappy playing conditions, I am curious how you explain that literally every single EPL team has a better points per game at home than away so far this season.

https://www.soccerstats.com/homeaway.asp?league=england

As for it not being a major factor in a singular match, we aren't even talking about a singular match. USA has had 84 home games in the Gold Cup and 1 away game. I fail to see how that isn't significant.

[Shway]

6 minutes ago, DrunkOffPunch said:

Listen, I’ve been respectful in the time I’ve been here. I would expect the same in return. I’m not here to gloat when the US wins or when Canada loses. Just to have conversation/debate which is the entire point of forums. 

Listen this isn’t BigSoccer or Reddit so you will have to read the crowd here. You’re in our “country“.

You’re arguing with your American privilege is all I’m saying.

There’s no reason why the Gold Cup hasn’t been played in Mexico based on your pitches argument. And if you say because of the lack of diaspora to tap into, then there’s no reason why Canada hasn’t hosted other than…

MONEY.

And the argument that the US wouldn’t do as well without home field advantage makes logical sense when you look at their history of how they perform away from home.

But let’s not talk about logic.

[DrunkOffPunch]

2 minutes ago, Shway said:

Listen this isn’t BigSoccer or Reddit so you will have to read the crowd here. You’re in our “country“.

You’re arguing with your American privilege is all I’m saying.

There’s no reason why the Gold Cup hasn’t been played in Mexico based on your pitches argument. And if you say because of the lack of diaspora to tap into, then there’s no reason why Canada hasn’t hosted other than…

MONEY.

I’ve said before I am perfectly fine with the gold cup being played in Mexico. I’m fine with the nations league final being played in Canada. Take it up with CONCACAF not me. 
 

What sort of privilege do I have? You don’t know me.

[narduch]

6 hours ago, DrunkOffPunch said:

Listen, I’ve been respectful in the time I’ve been here. I would expect the same in return. I’m not here to gloat when the US wins or when Canada loses. Just to have conversation/debate which is the entire point of forums. 

I wouldn't consider calling someone 'dishonest' after losing an argument so badly respectful 

[Free kick]

The real solution is to do away with the Gold Cup and just have a tournament for the Americas (ie.: a Copa America for for the North and South) every four years.  With the nations league serving as the qualifiers. 
 

PS.:  I think that this wouldnt change the US ranking much. If at all. 

Edited December 1, 2022 by Free kick

[Floortom]

2 minutes ago, Free kick said:

The real solution is to do away with the Gold Cup and just have a tournament for the Americas (ie.: a Copa America for for the North and South) every four years.  With the nations league serving as the qualifiers. 

the Gold Cup is how concacaf makes money. How is that revenue going to be replaced?

[Free kick]

6 minutes ago, Floortom said:

the Gold Cup is how concacaf makes money. How is that revenue going to be replaced?

Yes.  Thats true.   And thats probably why it wont happen.  But I will bet that even the south american sides wouldn’t object to playing Copa America on US soil fairly regularly.   And there would be more money to be made but when you split it,  then you would see a fight over who gets what and how its split between the two confederations. If you can settle how to split the money, then who knows.

Edited December 1, 2022 by Free kick

[Free kick]

PS.:  Every single person wearing a Mexican jersey ( There were tons) I ran into in Qatar that I spoke to, was an american.  And who spoke perfect un accented english.   And often with a southern accent.    This might not be a good random sample, so take it for what its worth.  It might be less than half a dozen that i actually spoke to,  but the holiday inn was packed with people wearing mexican jersy’s and i heard english spoken amongst them.    Who stays and is most loyal to the Holiday Inns brand?  
 

Mexico and Argentina were the two most popular jerseys seen in Qatar.  Does anyone honnnestly think that they were all Argentinians and Mexicans based on what we know of the economy and standard of living in those countries?  
 

i dont believe and never have believed that there much of a home field advantage (with respect to fan support) when the US plays latin american countries on home soil.  
 

edit.:  correction i spoke to one individual who said he lived in Mexico city.  He had a accented english. But that was it.  The others were from Texas and California.

Edited December 1, 2022 by Free kick

[VinceA]

Anyone love the news of Berhalter entering contract talks with the USSF only because of how mad it makes USMNT Twitter?

[Soccerpro2]

On 11/30/2022 at 10:08 PM, DrunkOffPunch said:

Listen, I’ve been respectful in the time I’ve been here. I would expect the same in return. I’m not here to gloat when the US wins or when Canada loses. Just to have conversation/debate which is the entire point of forums. 

I've tried to make this same point on bigsoccer over the past few years. It hasn't gotten me very far. Lots and lots of insults and anger there. Tough to have objective, rational conversations there.

Edited December 7, 2022 by Soccerpro2

[mrstepp817]

17 minutes ago, VinceA said:

Anyone love the news of Berhalter entering contract talks with the USSF only because of how mad it makes USMNT Twitter?

There's a vocal element of USMNT twitter that's 100% anti-Berhalter...I think most are in the camp that I'm in....I think he's done a good job, Rd of 16 was the absolute ceiling for this team...the question for me..is Gregg the guy to take USMNT to the next level for 2026?? I think its a fair question...

[InglewoodJack]

I saw a tweet after the US got eliminated about "once soccer hits the hood it's over for the world", and I think there's a lot of truth to that. That said, it got me thinking about where both our nations get their players from and how they came to each of our squads.  Not that I know enough about our players background to know if anyone grew up "in the hood", but our best player came here as a refugee, our keeper came here to flea war, our second best player came here from Haiti, Kone came to us from CIV, etc. When I look at the USMNT (please correct me if I'm missing anyone), the only player who seems to have come from similar backgrounds is Musah, who is about as American as Jonathan David is. Their roster seems to be made up largely of NCAA/IMG Academy players, players who have eligibility via their father who played in the states, or dual nationals from soccer countries who picked the US over their country of berth ("the stephen eustaquios")

With this in mind, it Canada seems to have a lot more success at developing players from diverse, and non-traditional soccer (ie soccer is a middle/upper class sport here, at least that was the perception for a very long time) backgrounds than the US has. It's not like the US doesn't have anyone with Davies, Borjan, Kone, etc's background, but yet the team feels a lot more homogenous than ours, and it's a reason I think our future is brighter than theirs, unless there is a massive change in US soccer in terms of who has access to reach the highest level.s

Or maybe I'm completely off, just something I noticed.

[mrstepp817]

1 hour ago, InglewoodJack said:

I saw a tweet after the US got eliminated about "once soccer hits the hood it's over for the world", and I think there's a lot of truth to that. That said, it got me thinking about where both our nations get their players from and how they came to each of our squads.  Not that I know enough about our players background to know if anyone grew up "in the hood", but our best player came here as a refugee, our keeper came here to flea war, our second best player came here from Haiti, Kone came to us from CIV, etc. When I look at the USMNT (please correct me if I'm missing anyone), the only player who seems to have come from similar backgrounds is Musah, who is about as American as Jonathan David is. Their roster seems to be made up largely of NCAA/IMG Academy players, players who have eligibility via their father who played in the states, or dual nationals from soccer countries who picked the US over their country of berth ("the stephen eustaquios")

With this in mind, it Canada seems to have a lot more success at developing players from diverse, and non-traditional soccer (ie soccer is a middle/upper class sport here, at least that was the perception for a very long time) backgrounds than the US has. It's not like the US doesn't have anyone with Davies, Borjan, Kone, etc's background, but yet the team feels a lot more homogenous than ours, and it's a reason I think our future is brighter than theirs, unless there is a massive change in US soccer in terms of who has access to reach the highest level.s

Or maybe I'm completely off, just something I noticed.

I agree if soccer had an easier pathway for kids who dont come from money it could in 20 years pay off..but who knows...Clint Dempsey arguably the US's best ever player grew up in rural East Texas and he grew up playing in empty lots w/Mexican-Americans...he's an example of the potential outside of suburbia where much of the US youth system lies

 

The main US roster is kind of a mix on where the players came from..Adams and McKennie are probably the best examples of MLS academies paying off...Zimmerman, Matt Turner and Jordan Morris were NCAA guys...Pulisic was a little US club system and German development since he was able to go at 16....Reyna and Ferreira were sons of pro soccer players...Dest and Robinson of course were developed in Europe and were sons of US citizens...so its a bit of a mix overall

Edited December 7, 2022 by mrstepp817

[DrunkOffPunch]

2 hours ago, Soccerpro2 said:

I've tried to make this same point on bigsoccer over the past few years. It hasn't gotten me very far. Lots and lots of insults and anger there. Tough to have objective, rational conversations there.

Two names that pop up off the top of my head. HomieTheClown is nothing but a troll that adds nothing to the conversation. Jazzy Altidore is a douche to everybody, I’d just ignore him and not waste your breath. Other than them I think the vast majority are fine with Canada. Personally, CANPRO is one of my favorite posters. What’s your username over there?

[VinceA]

Tac Manager is actually saying 3rd place is bare minimum for the Copa America like wtf are these Youtubers on LOL

[DrunkOffPunch]

57 minutes ago, VinceA said:

Tac Manager is actually saying 3rd place is bare minimum for the Copa America like wtf are these Youtubers on LOL

Him and 11 yanks are pretty bad. 

[mrstepp817]

I mean the US finished 4th in the Copa America Centenario in 2016 with IMO a lesser team than what they could have in 2024....so 3rd could be a realistic goal...but bare minimum?? Damn lol 

[VinceA]

I hope to God our fanbase doesn't devolve like the US. This Gio story is a cluster fuck but the dummies siding with a player who pissed off his own teammates because they don't like the coach or the fact the team calls up MLS players only paints a terrible picture of the IS soccer discourse.

[BearcatSA]

1 hour ago, VinceA said:

I hope to God our fanbase doesn't devolve like the US. This Gio story is a cluster fuck but the dummies siding with a player who pissed off his own teammates because they don't like the coach or the fact the team calls up MLS players only paints a terrible picture of the IS soccer discourse.

Maintaining a rational and reasoned discussion on issues around these parts has not been exemplary, so I could see the same kind of cluster fuck happening here.

[football_world]

On 12/8/2022 at 2:07 AM, InglewoodJack said:

I saw a tweet after the US got eliminated about "once soccer hits the hood it's over for the world", and I think there's a lot of truth to that. That said, it got me thinking about where both our nations get their players from and how they came to each of our squads.  Not that I know enough about our players background to know if anyone grew up "in the hood", but our best player came here as a refugee, our keeper came here to flea war, our second best player came here from Haiti, Kone came to us from CIV, etc. When I look at the USMNT (please correct me if I'm missing anyone), the only player who seems to have come from similar backgrounds is Musah, who is about as American as Jonathan David is. Their roster seems to be made up largely of NCAA/IMG Academy players, players who have eligibility via their father who played in the states, or dual nationals from soccer countries who picked the US over their country of berth ("the stephen eustaquios")

With this in mind, it Canada seems to have a lot more success at developing players from diverse, and non-traditional soccer (ie soccer is a middle/upper class sport here, at least that was the perception for a very long time) backgrounds than the US has. It's not like the US doesn't have anyone with Davies, Borjan, Kone, etc's background, but yet the team feels a lot more homogenous than ours, and it's a reason I think our future is brighter than theirs, unless there is a massive change in US soccer in terms of who has access to reach the highest level.s

Or maybe I'm completely off, just something I noticed.

What's surprising is that Alphonso Davies developed mostly in Canada, before he went to Bayern.  Prior to Alphonso Davies, I didn't know if Canada had the right environment to develop a world class player like Alphonso Davies (to be more accurate, Alphonso Davies is a world class left back player, as that is the position he played when he made the FIFA FIFPro World 11 a few years ago).

So it's good to know that a world class player from their childhood can develop from Canadian soil.  MLS definitely had a role in Alphonso Davies's growth, so I also hope MLS keeps getting better in the future!

[VinceA]

7 hours ago, BearcatSA said:

Maintaining a rational and reasoned discussion on issues around these parts has not been exemplary, so I could see the same kind of cluster fuck happening here.

I haven't seen the same "MLS is National League South level" takes from Canadians but Herdman's tactical failures have brought out some poorer takes from newer fans.

Edited December 12, 2022 by VinceA

[Cicero]

On 12/7/2022 at 1:07 PM, InglewoodJack said:

I saw a tweet after the US got eliminated about "once soccer hits the hood it's over for the world", and I think there's

I think this view is already out-of-date. This thinking probably is most connected with the NBA, but here's a brief summary of 2022's top ten NBA draft picks:

1. Paolo Banchero - mother was a professional basketball player, attended private catholic high school in Seattle.
2. Chet Holmgren - father played in college, attended private high school which Jalen Suggs also attended.
3. Jabari Smith - father played in NBA.
4. Keegan Murray - father played for U of Iowa, grew up in Cedar Rapids, Iowa.
5. Jaden Ivey - mother is head women's coach at Notre Dame, played in WNBA, father played for the Baltimore Ravens.
6. Benedict Mathurin - Canadian, son of Haitian immigrants, not sure of economic status, but played many sports growing up, so it doesn't seem he was 'from the hood'.
7. Shaedon Sharpe - from London, Ontario. Not sure of econ. status, but was able to play at several US prep schools, so at least had some financial backing from somewhere. Not sure there's a 'hood' in London.
8. Dyson Daniels - Australian, son of former Australian professional basketball player.
9. Jeremy Sochan - Polish mother, grew up in US, mother played professional and US college bball, father was a college player in US.
10. Johnny Davis - father Mark played college bball, had brief stint in NBA.

You get the picture. Allan Iverson type stories are the rarity now. Middle or upper-class development pathways are the norm. I've had a small window into the bball world through my children. It's all about prep schools and rep programs. High School teams are almost irrelevant now for ambitious players. Connections through parents are clearly beneficial. I don't know about the NFL, maybe football still draws on a lower economic class than other sports.