TFC 2018

[Unnamed Trialist]

On 6/14/2018 at 8:20 PM, Gian-Luca said:

I've no idea whether they will agree with the Inebriatti's actions or not, but I don't believe that the other groups even knew about the reasons for this protest until that message was posted after the game. Even if they can sympathize with that group, I doubt many will want to administer self-inflicted punishment on themselves to support another group though.

That's a pretty dire comment, G-L, and if true a terrible self condemnation of TFC supporter groups.

The only reason to not back another group,  imo,  is systematic (not rhetorical or symbolic) racism or sexisme or general fascism. 

[Gian-Luca]

5 hours ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

That's a pretty dire comment, G-L, and if true a terrible self condemnation of TFC supporter groups.

The only reason to not back another group,  imo,  is systematic (not rhetorical or symbolic) racism or sexisme or general fascism. 

Or it could be that the other supporter groups think that a group which acknowledges that they deliberately broke the rules (a rule imposed upon them due to their own past conduct with the two-stick banner aimed at Montreal which was generally considered sexist and offensive) and then chose to whine about being punished for deliberate transgression are not a sufficient reason to support them by administering a self-imposed exile from attending matches.

I'm not a member of any of the supporter groups (so not sure how I can be "self-condemning" them) but as far as I can tell from what I've seen on social media, none of the groups are sympathizing with the Inebriatti on this. I suspect it's not because all of these other supporter groups happen secretly happen to be fascists. But you'd have to ask the supporter groups in question.

[Unnamed Trialist]

Just now, Gian-Luca said:

Or it could be that the other supporter groups think that a group which acknowledges that they deliberately broke the rules (a rule imposed upon them due to their own past conduct with the two-stick banner aimed at Montreal which was generally considered sexist and offensive) and then chose to whine about being punished for deliberate transgression are not a sufficient reason to support them by administering a self-imposed exile from attending matches.

I'm not a member of any of the supporter groups (so not sure how I can be "self-condemning" them) but as far as I can tell from what I've seen on social media, none of the groups are sympathizing with the Inebriatti on this. I suspect it's not because all of these other supporter groups happen secretly happen to be fascists. But you'd have to ask the supporter groups in question.

I never said not supporting another group was "fascist", so if you are suggesting that you are twisting my words. I am saying that not showing solidarity for other groups over schoolyard topics like this (hey, you guys broke the rules with a banner, nah nah nah, so we are going to tell on you)--well that is pretty much deciding to be a bunch of bouncing mall-cops.

That Impact banner, frankly, was very infantile, it was funny in that way, and of course stupid, mostly because the lewd drawing was like what a 13 year old would do. So much effort for such a large analogical insult that, seriously, no one who is an adult can be offended by.

[1996]

21 hours ago, Gian-Luca said:

Not sure where else to put this, but seems fitting here as this was TFC's forerunner - a nice video of the journey leading to Toronto's previous soccer championship, heading back to 1976 in the original NASL:

https://www.tsn.ca/fifa-world-cup/video/croatian-roots-run-deep-in-toronto-soccer-scene~1419582

Although I think the claim that Eusebio was the 2nd best player in the world while Pele was the first was more prior accurate 10 years prior to 1976 than it was by 1976 when this story takes place.

Great piece that brings back so many memories I was 12 years old ,  I remember that championship in 1976 and remember watching that final game from Seattle versus the Minnesota Kicks , the game was on national tv on the CBS network in the US it was Toronto’s last major North American soccer championship until TFC won the MLS Cup last season. My dad took me to at least 5 or 6 games a season starting in 1973ish when they were just called the Metros before the Croatian community bought a major stake in the team and renamed them the Toronto Metros Croatia up until they sold the team in 1978 to the then owners of Global Television and they renamed the team the Toronto Blizzard and they moved the team to the old exhibition stadium where BMO now sits  from the old Varsity Stadium.  Great memories and a load of thanks goes to the Croatian community who kept the team alive and even won a championship .

[jpg75]

The Blizzard moved back to Varsity at some time in the early 80's, i attended a handful of games there in the '83 and '84 seasons.

[Gian-Luca]

42 minutes ago, jpg75 said:

The Blizzard moved back to Varsity at some time in the early 80's, i attended a handful of games there in the '83 and '84 seasons.

They moved back there for the 1984 season. In 1983 they were still at Exhibition Stadium. One of the reasons I recall this so clearly is that I played as part of a mini-game on the astro-turf at half-time during a Whitecaps-Blizzard game which was either on Canada Day 1983 or part of the Canada Day weekend that summer. I'm not talking about a timbits type game where the kids like you get today where they set up mini-nets in a small portion of the field and 6 year olds run around after the ball like a swarm of bees, this was a game on the full pitch at Exhibition Stadium, which, when I think back at it, was a little crazy to ask 10-11 year old boys to do (although we played against a girls team that was 14-15 years old, but that's still crazy). The game was 10 minutes and nothing much happened other than we got the only shot on goal and I nearly took out one of the cameras on the sideline with a clearance, my only touch of the game. The real game ended 0-0 with the Blizzard beating the then-first place Whitecaps in the PK shoot-out. There was a Canada Day fireworks display after the game, which I think was the last time I was ever excited about a fireworks display, about 3.5 weeks before I turned 11.

[Rheo]

Bono re-signs https://www.sportsnet.ca/soccer/toronto-fc-sign-goalkeeper-alex-bono-extension/

No terms yet.  A little surprised.  Kind of thought they let him go to Europe with the interest and save some money on the cap.  Glad he's still around though

[Bison44]

Irwin must be on his way out then.  220,000 for a back up keeper is using a lot of cap space.  

[AvroArrow]

1 hour ago, Bison44 said:

Irwin must be on his way out then.  220,000 for a back up keeper is using a lot of cap space.  

I've never fully understood why TFC just gave up on Irwin.  In the year he started, I don't ever recall thinking "TFC lost that game because of Irwin."  He also came with a pretty good MLS resume.  I realize that Bono became the starter due to an injury to Irwin, but Bono was not great in those first couple of games and let in a couple of howlers.  He still commits the occasional brain cramp, especially when it comes to some gaffs with his distribution that have ended with the ball back in TFC's net.  However, Irwin was never given a chance to get his job back.

Now I don't see the team practice every day, so maybe TFC sees something in training that the every day fan doesn't see.  I've also thought that maybe they didn't think there was much of a difference between Irwin and Bono, so they might as well go with Bono because he is cheaper, and that matters in a salary cap league.  Bono has made some great saves but if your keeper isn't making some great saves, it may be time to find a new keeper.

[Bison44]

The cheaper argument is probably moot now.  Younger with more potential...I guess?? Vanney likes him better???  I agree with you AvroArrow, I dont think there is much to choose from between them, and maybe with more experience Bono will cut out some of those distribution gafffs.  They wont get much for Irwin in trade.  And if they went the other way I am not sure what kind of cut TFC would get selling Bono on to europe....probably worth more to sell him to another MLS squad for allocation money. Which they are unlikely to do as he seems to have Vanneys confidence more than Irwin. But they need cap space....just like you cant carry 4-5 starting MLS CB (just in case everyone gets injured wink wink), you cant really carry 2 starting keepers making 2-300,000 a piece.  

[Prune_55]

On June 20, 2018 at 12:39 PM, AvroArrow said:

I've never fully understood why TFC just gave up on Irwin.  In the year he started, I don't ever recall thinking "TFC lost that game because of Irwin."  He also came with a pretty good MLS resume.  I realize that Bono became the starter due to an injury to Irwin, but Bono was not great in those first couple of games and let in a couple of howlers.  He still commits the occasional brain cramp, especially when it comes to some gaffs with his distribution that have ended with the ball back in TFC's net.  However, Irwin was never given a chance to get his job back.

Now I don't see the team practice every day, so maybe TFC sees something in training that the every day fan doesn't see.  I've also thought that maybe they didn't think there was much of a difference between Irwin and Bono, so they might as well go with Bono because he is cheaper, and that matters in a salary cap league.  Bono has made some great saves but if your keeper isn't making some great saves, it may be time to find a new keeper.

Bono is miles better than Irwin. For every brain cramp he has he makes 10 great saves (see last years playoffs). And he's young and improving.

[Jith12]

https://www.wakingthered.com/toronto-fc/2018/6/22/17495384/ben-spencer-released-by-toronto-fc-tfc-mls-usl-contracts-tim-bezbatchenko

This has been a long time coming. Best of luck to him, hopefully he can find success elsewhere, we obviously weren't the place for him.

[Club Linesman]

About time. This was way too long in coming. A 6’5” striker that was no good in the air.  Would have been nice to see Mo get a little more time to prove himself, but at least Jordan will get the odd game in now one would hope if only to prove he can play in MLS or become a valuable member of a CPL team.

[gator]

4 minutes ago, Jith12 said:

https://www.wakingthered.com/toronto-fc/2018/6/22/17495384/ben-spencer-released-by-toronto-fc-tfc-mls-usl-contracts-tim-bezbatchenko

This has been a long time coming. Best of luck to him, hopefully he can find success elsewhere, we obviously weren't the place for him.

Many of us, myself included were quite critical of him on here and in the end it was justified because he never produced when given the chances! It was not really personal for me, my issue was more with Vanney playing him ahead of Canadians, I wish him the best of luck wherever he ends up, he has had some horrific injuries to overcome!

[Gian-Luca]

It’s the second time in 7 months he has been released so who knows if he will be back again for a hat trick of signings ?

I wonder if this means we will see more of Akinola with the first team

[grasshopper1917]

Not even sure what to say about tonight performance. Looks like Vanney has lost control of the team. The effort was disgraceful.

[Bdog]

Mavinga being injured is fucking us over really badly right now, even a healthy Moor would make us look so much better. Zavaleta has looked terrible this year and Hagglund is average at best.

Despite injuries this team has still been under performing like crazy. That whole game looked almost as bad as the first half against DC last game.

[Gian-Luca]

16 minutes ago, grasshopper1917 said:

Not even sure what to say about tonight performance. Looks like Vanney has lost control of the team. The effort was disgraceful.

Its obvious to me that they are overall tired & fatigued. Especially Bradley who isn't providing anywhere near the level of energy & defensive coverage that he used to, and that opens up a huge hole in their defense, especially without their top two CB's back there. The lack of Altidore up front means the ball tends to come back too quickly as Giovinco & Vazquez are not player who will hold the ball up. Using Vazquez as a striker means that he does far more running and he gets gassed much quicker.

They've been playing football non-stop pretty much since February of 2017. No other MLS team has been doing that. There may also be some mental fatigue involved. I though the three week World Cup break that I thought they were getting would be a key to re-energize them, but that "break" turned out to be a measley 11 days

At this point though I don't think they will make the playoffs. If they are this tired now, imagine what they will be like when they play 8 games in 31 days in July......

[grasshopper1917]

I agree with much of what you said but I cant stomach the 'tired' excuse. Sure they have had more matches then other MLS teams and some travel to Mexico. However they are professional athletes. Yes if your working 60 hours a week unloading truck fulls of toilets you may be tired. Playing 1 or 2 90 minute games of soccer a week should leave a 30 year old fit man exhausted and ready to collapse.  

You say they have a measly 11 days off? I work as a receiver and haven't had an 11 day break since I started 4 years ago. I'm not an athlete and i'm not 'fatigued' Plus i'm 42   lol

[Big_M]

Has nothing to do with being tired when the last game was 11 days ago. Individual and collective performances need to be better. Had plenty of quality players on the field but simply got outplayed

[BrennanFan]

Vanney has run his course with the team.  Time for a change. 

Marc Dos Santos would be amazing for TFC. 

 

[toontownman]

Wouldn't be hugely surprising if all the Canadian MLS teams have new coaches this time next year. Hopefully Garde is in for the longer haul though as it is a project there no doubt. 

[Gian-Luca]

1 hour ago, grasshopper1917 said:

I agree with much of what you said but I cant stomach the 'tired' excuse. Sure they have had more matches then other MLS teams and some travel to Mexico. However they are professional athletes. Yes if your working 60 hours a week unloading truck fulls of toilets you may be tired. Playing 1 or 2 90 minute games of soccer a week should leave a 30 year old fit man exhausted and ready to collapse.  

You say they have a measly 11 days off? I work as a receiver and haven't had an 11 day break since I started 4 years ago. I'm not an athlete and i'm not 'fatigued' Plus i'm 42   lol

The 11 days is measely in comparison to what they needed, and I was saying that before what I thought was a much longer break. It was obvious that the team died in the 2nd half today, when Delgado gave away that ball for the 2nd goal it was like three players collapsed on the field. The only other team who haven't had much of a break since Feb. 2017 is Seattle and they are also having a lousy season (they also have injuries, as TFC does). I just don't think its a coincidence. It's not affecting every player of course but are we really going to say that Bradley has performing at a $6 million level and is looking anywhere remotely like his 2017 self? And if so, what is the reason for that if not physical & mental fatigue? He's suddenly just turned to complete shit overnight? I just don't buy that - I just think he's gassed, he's not a spritely 19 year old anymore.

Now, I wouldn't say that Aketxe is necessarily tired because he hasn't done this marathon, he's just  been a bust so far and that's where the team & management can be faulted. If he's worth the 1.2 million a year he's getting paid then presumably Chapman is worth $2 million in comparison and they'll need to pay Osorio about $10 million by comparative market value, considering what each player has brought to the team this season.

[Unnamed Trialist]

5 hours ago, grasshopper1917 said:

I agree with much of what you said but I cant stomach the 'tired' excuse. Sure they have had more matches then other MLS teams and some travel to Mexico. However they are professional athletes. Yes if your working 60 hours a week unloading truck fulls of toilets you may be tired. Playing 1 or 2 90 minute games of soccer a week should leave a 30 year old fit man exhausted and ready to collapse.  

You say they have a measly 11 days off? I work as a receiver and haven't had an 11 day break since I started 4 years ago. I'm not an athlete and i'm not 'fatigued' Plus i'm 42   lol

The tired argument is terrible, I agree, it has no basis or grounding over the long term. It only makes sense for short stints, because any properly prepared team can build recovery into training sessions, as well as other factors, to help a team as a whole and individuals be on top form. Tiredness made sense, combined with the emotional let down, for about 2-3 weeks after the loss in Champions.

First, they are professional athletes, and a break of a week is enough to recover from a game. Second, there is squad rotation, for injuries, meaning that there is not even the same starting 11 out there every week. Third, they have had breaks, repeatedly, since the ConcaChampions final. What were the physios doing to get the team back in shape, to revive them and prepare them for the last 2/3rds of the season?

Finally, any player involved in a continental competition plays as many more game as they do. I'll give an example of a player I follow closely who has not had more than 3 days holiday in 18 months, Paulinho, who starts for Brazil. And runs his butt off, he's box to box and an in support to the creative in front and the backs behind. He hasn't had a holiday at all since the Chinese off season two years ago. 

Edit: I am not saying they are not tired, or some of them. I am saying that if they are, it is something they should have properly anticipated and prepared for. Individually. As a team. The coach, the physios. Dieticians. The best team in MLS not handling that properly, well that is very unprofessional to squander a valuable legacy so quickly.

[jonovision]

A big issue that TFC will have to deal with starting, arguably, this off-season, is that their most talented and most productive players are on the wrong side of the age curve. Bradley is 30, and although he stopped being a box-to-box kind of guy years ago, he now seems restricted, whether by ability or tactics, to a more pure DM than ever before.  (When Julian de Guzman started doing this for TFC he was shit on constantly). Giovinco is 31 and I don't think  with his style or stature he's the kind of guy you would expect to see excelling at 34 or 35. Altidore at 28 is the only one of the big 3 DPs who numerically is in his prime, and it is obvious how much TFC is missing him. Vazquez, another productive player, is also 31, and though he has class with the ball that you'd expect to age well, he also seems to be an oft-injured type and that doesn't get better on the wrong side of 30.

They don't seem to have a tonne of younger talent in the first team. The defense is a patchwork with Moor being one or two lost steps from being out of the league (inevitable at 34), Zavaleta and Hagglund below average, etc. Morrow should have a few good years left. In midfield Osorio has made strides and you're probably seeing something close to his peak level at age 26, but is there anyone else you trust? Behind Altidore and Giovinco, I love Ricketts more than almost anyone else out there, but I think the writing is on the wall for him. The fact Hamilton doesn't get time ahead of him isn't a good sign.

None of this is to say that TFC is destined for another decade in the toilet, and they could definitely remain an average to above average team in MLS for a year or two by sitting on their hands, but I think they have higher ambitions. It will be tough for them to fill some of these gaps while tying up money (not such a big problem) and DP slots (big problem) in players with diminishing productivity.