TFC 2018

[jpg75]

Gio totally deserved that red.

The team looked completely different when Mavinga, Vazquez and Gio subbed on. It allowed Bradley to replace Delgado at DM and we were on our front foot instead of back.

[gator]

I just finished watching a recording of the match, a very poor start had TFC chasing the match right from the get go, the Canadians had absolutely no part in the 3 brutal goals conceded, it's almost amusing how some will find a way to blame them anyway! I think Chapman is making the most of his playing time albeit somewhat out of position, I would have left him in the match! Osorio had a bit of a quiet match, not terrible by any means, he has raised his own bar, Telford was ok, a couple of nice crosses, once again out of position playing LB, Ricketts didn't do much and may be falling behind Hamilton in the pecking order! With Gio's stupid Red Card there will be more opportunities for Hamilton and Ricketts hopefully unless of course Ben Spencer is chosen ahead of them! 

[Gian-Luca]

My main problem with the red isn’t the red itself but a lack of yellow for the NE player who slapped the ball out of Giovinco’s hands as he is running towards the centre for a restart. The message that sends is that it okay to both delay games and to provoke players into a confrontation.

I also agree with Vanney about the fact they didn’t give a red for the Seattle guy who smashed Morgan across the face with his hands so it doesn’t appear that it’s a non-discretionary call after all

[gator]

3 minutes ago, Gian-Luca said:

My main problem with the red isn’t the red itself but a lack of yellow for the NE player who slapped the ball out of Giovinco’s hands as he is running towards the centre for a restart. The message that sends is that it okay to both delay games and to provoke players into a confrontation.

I also agree with Vanney about the fact they didn’t give a red for the Seattle guy who smashed Morgan across the face with his hands so it doesn’t appear that it’s a non-discretionary call after all

The  inconsistency with MLS refs is so frustrating, add to it the delays for VAR and the game suffers, it was a Red all day long, you are correct though that the Revs player should have had a Yellow for instigating it! Giovinco is his own worst enemy when he gets frustrated and loses control, it's a side of him we see too often! 

[Free kick]

18 hours ago, Bison44 said:

Give me a break, Aketxe and Bradley goofed up on  the first goal, and the second was on Bono and Aketxe.  Delgado has had at least 3 terrible giveaways.  Both goals were right down the middle, we need to get regular CBs back and quick.  Its making me appreciate Zavelleta and Haglund.  When you play twice in a week and have all these injuries the team is bound to be disjointed, but its not the CDNs that are looking terrible.  And who would you rather put upfront, Spencer???  

Blame the foreigners. Its all their fault.  

There was a point raised above that is worth repeating, “the game changed noticably when Giovinco, Vasquez, and Mavinga enterred”.  Before that, TFC looked a lot like a poor MLS teams made up of borderline USL talent.  This is something we saw at other times this year (eg.: versus a poor Colorado team and at home versus a totally depleated Seattle).  Hence all that depth that we talk about last year proves that its one thing to speak of depth in regards integrating depth players into a lineup with a solid core or parts of a solid core and its another thing to speak of depth in regards to having the kind of depth players that could still stand on their own as team and keep the team competitive.  

The depth of the squad is made up of a lot of cnds or principly canadians.  This is was their chance, due to circumstances this year, to prove themselves in key roles.   And at the same time give us one reason for hope in 2022 and 2026.   Now that we have a sample size of about 2-3 years plus several games this season, I really dont see how some of these guys deserve more minutes when you look at it as a whole.  Everytime this discussion comes up,  someone has to point the fingers at the non canadians.  As if,  canadian players can do no wrong because they are Cnd.  Many of those non canadians that are getting pointed at have already proven themselves in the sport of soccer, either with TFC or by having played in places like Serie A or la liga, or at the US national team at the WC.   If this team was hypothetically disbanded these players would  find a gig with a club or league similar to where they came from or at the very least another club in MLS.  I wish i could say otherwise but guys like Hamilton and Chapman have not proven that they could imo.  They are also now at the point in their careers, beyond the formative stages so what you you see, is pretty much what you are going to get. 

Its also a bit frustrating to see a how the retorques that “ oh but so and so non canadian made a mistake on this or that goal. Etc etc.”.  Soccer is not a sport where its just about not making mistakes!   It also about what you do to make your team better and using your skills and creativity.   Most disppointing and noticable to me and Worth repeating:  “the game changed drastically when the three subs came in”.  Not after NE scored the third goal but rather when Giovinco, Vasquez and Mavinga enterred resulting in Bradley going back to dmid.  Such that from the 60th and 70th minute on ward, tfc looked like a playoff team and contender.  But before that point they looked like a mls cellar dweller. 

Osorio is solid contributor and key component to the squad.  He is good enough to start for our national team and for any team in MLS.

Morgan has had some solid moments and there is no noticable drop off when he is pressed into action. He is perhaps not as consistent as you would like but he can start for many teams in MLS in my opinion.  Warrants consideration for MNT.  

Now that we have a larger sample of what we have seen of Chapman, i have seen him make plays where he looks good but he doesnt have a very high ceiling (.ie.:  can make  good plays but i cant recall ever seeing him make a great play). So he has to be more consistent and there is the problem.  He can look ok one moment, and then not or just disappear. This also happens from one game to the next.   Looks like someone who can fit in but doesnt necessarily make the team better.  Some will surely point to the fact he scored the third goal the other night. Nice, yes, but it would be more convinced if he deliverred something that when it was not the 89th minute in 2-0 game when the opposition was pressing forward.  I Dont think that he is starter in MLS. Especially if you have a good team.  On a fully healthy TFC, it’ll be tough for him to get minutes.  As for the MNT,  this is not the kind of talent that will change our fortunes but might have a place as depth.    If he goes out and scores two goals next game, i wouldnt change my opinion.  

Hamilton. I thought that this guy had a higher ceiling than most of our prospects.  But he is starting to look like the next candidate to be cut from the team.  He has had chances to play this year.   But hasnt scored.  Worst still, unlike Spencer, doesnt get changes to score.  From what we have seen of Spencer, the issue there is that he couldnt convert but at least he would get scoring chances.   CAN ANYONE HONNESTLY BLAME VANNEY FOR TRYING Spencer in his place for the next game.  

I thought that Edwards had the highest ceiling of all three.   He made game deciding plays like the  ball that won the voyageurs cup for TFC last year versus Montreal.  I dont get it why he gone so you have believe that it was off the field related.  I dont recall consistency in his play being as big an issue as with the other two. 

Ricketts.  He is being used as he should, late game injection of pace.  Not at all effective as a starter.  Another candidate to be cut if the club decides to go out and improve scoring.  

 

 

[mpg_29]

I am not really that surprised. Toronto is spending to the limit within the MLS system and while it gives you a chance to be competitive it also means you are an extremely top-heavy team. I think Toronto's payroll is at ~$26M....when you take Giovinco, Altidore and Bradley out of the equation the payroll is like ~7M.

Also while I am glad they went it "all-in" on the CCL it was also a bit of a gamble with regards to their season in MLS. The rotational depth just isn't there yet as for the reason stated above.

[Gian-Luca]

2 hours ago, Free kick said:

Blame the foreigners. Its all their fault.  

There was a point raised above that is worth repeating, “the game changed noticably when Giovinco, Vasquez, and Mavinga enterred”.  Before that, TFC looked a lot like a poor MLS teams made up of borderline USL talent.  This is something we saw at other times this year (eg.: versus a poor Colorado team and at home versus a totally depleated Seattle).  Hence all that depth that we talk about last year proves that its one thing to speak of depth in regards integrating depth players into a lineup with a solid core or parts of a solid core and its another thing to speak of depth in regards to having the kind of depth players that could still stand on their own as team and keep the team competitive.  

The depth of the squad is made up of a lot of cnds or principly canadians.  This is was their chance, due to circumstances this year, to prove themselves in key roles.   And at the same time give us one reason for hope in 2022 and 2026.   Now that we have a sample size of about 2-3 years plus several games this season, I really dont see how some of these guys deserve more minutes when you look at it as a whole.  Everytime this discussion comes up,  someone has to point the fingers at the non canadians.  As if,  canadian players can do no wrong because they are Cnd.  Many of those non canadians that are getting pointed at have already proven themselves in the sport of soccer, either with TFC or by having played in places like Serie A or la liga, or at the US national team at the WC.   If this team was hypothetically disbanded these players would  find a gig with a club or league similar to where they came from or at the very least another club in MLS.  I wish i could say otherwise but guys like Hamilton and Chapman have not proven that they could imo.  They are also now at the point in their careers, beyond the formative stages so what you you see, is pretty much what you are going to get.

(snip)

Now that we larger sample of what we have seen of Chapman, i have seen him make plays where he looks good but he doesnt have a very high ceiling (.ie.:  can make  good plays but i cant recall ever seeing him make a great play). So he has to be more consistent and there is the problem.  He can look ok one moment, and then not or just disappear. This also happens from one game to the next.   Looks like someone who can fit in but doesnt necessarily make the team better.  Some will surely point to the fact he scored the third goal the other night. Nice, yes, but it would be more convinced if he deliverred something that when it was not the 89th minute in 2-0 game when the opposition was pressing forward.  I Dont think that he is starter in MLS. Especially if you have a good team.  On a fully healthy TFC, it’ll be tough for him to get minutes.  As for the MNT,  this is not the kind of talent that will change our fortunes but might have a place.    If he goes out and scores two goals next game, i wouldnt change my opinion.  

Hamilton. I thought that this guy had a higher ceiling than most of our prospects.  But he is starting to look like the next candidate to be cut from the team.  He has had chances to play this year.   But hasnt scored.  Worst still, unlike Spencer, doesnt get changes to score.  From what we have seen of Spencer, the issue there is that he couldnt convert but at least he would get scoring chances.   CAN ANYONE HONNESTLY BLAME VANNEY FOR TRYING Spencer in his place for the next game.  

Bizarre post. No team in any league can withstand having 7 or 8 starters out of the lineup for this amount of time. When people speak of depth they usually are referring to that if any player goes down for a few games, they have a players at every position who can cover for them and step up for a few games in his absence. It’s usually not meant that you have only have depth if you have 8 or 9 starters out simultaneously as well as another 3 2nd stringers out and can replace them all at once with no problem. TFC started just 2 starters in their natural position yesterday- Bono and Osorio. That’s it. No team in any league is going to win too many road games on 2 days rest with just two starters in their regular position, one of which is a keeper. That has nothing to do with nationality.

All of the goals against yesterday and most of the other good scoring chances were the fault of a handful of the foreign players. This was mentioned not because of some xenophobic witch hunt but because other posters had been pointing the finger at the Canadian players for the loss so people were defending them. That said, it is completely reasonable and fair to knock any player who is making 1.2 million and putting in performances that dont warrant a 0.2 million salary.

I don’t really get all of the Chapman and Hamilton bashing, it’s obvious that they are continuing to improve and that Vanney has increased trust in both players- it’s especially obvious when the coach has come out and said that himself. They have combined to create two goals in the past 3 games with a combined 3 starts and don’t underestimate that they don’t hurt you defensively (in fact the quite the opposite).  Is it easier to create goals when you have the lead? Yes. It’s also much more difficult to create goals on the road on unfamiliar turf when your team gives up two extremely poor goals in the first 7 minutes.  It was the goal that Chapman and Hamilton created which got TFC back into the game which made Vanney believe they had a chance to tie the game and make it worthwhile to bring on that unfit trio that you mentioned, so it makes perfect sense to take this opportunity to trash Hamilton and Chapman. 

The same  people defending Hamilton and Chapman have also said that they played better than  Ricketts so that rather  Undermines your theory that people are saying the Canadian players can do no wrong. The fact is this discussion started from people pointing the finger at the Canadians, not from people pointing the finger at the some of the foreigners

As for Spencer, he gets chances at the USL level and blows them. There is no guarantee or likelihood that he would get those chances at the MLS level where he has played two games this year, did nothing and was too slow to latch on to two chances that he had been set up for. 

 

[jpg75]

Obviously when Mavinga, Vazquez and Gio came on it changed the game - they're 3 of our top 5 players! And it allowed Bradley back to his normal position. They also took off Aketxe, Delgado and Ricketts. Aketxe was terrible at times and sub-par over the course of his time on the field. Ricketts was ineffective and Delgado was just OK. Mavinga solidified the backline, Bradley solidified the mid and Vazquez and Gio gave us a spark offensively. Osorio was probably our best players up until the subs. Chapman and Telfer looked like they belonged. Hamilton was just OK.

[1996]

The point is that Chapman and Hamilton like last year on a healthy TFC team will hardly see the field right now they have not shown they can be starters on a 2017 TFC like team , maybe then nead a change of scenery to another MLS team maybe a Philadelphia type team or maybe they need to prove themselves in the new CPL next year, and for Spencer this guy needs to retire and give up just does not have it its painful to watch him play. Oh and don’t get me started on that waiste of money that is Aketxe so far, the guy could hardly get a game on his Spanish club team so automatically we all thought that he would be the second coming in the MLS but so far he looks like the second coming of Mista!

[Free kick]

3 hours ago, Gian-Luca said:

Bizarre post. No team in any league can withstand having 7 or 8 starters out of the lineup for this amount of time. When people speak of depth they usually are referring to that if any player goes down for a few games, they have a players at every position who can cover for them and step up for a few games in his absence. It’s usually not meant that you have only have depth if you have 8 or 9 starters out simultaneously as well as another 3 2nd stringers out and can replace them all at once with no problem. TFC started just 2 starters in their natural position yesterday- Bono and Osorio. That’s it. No team in any league is going to win too many road games on 2 days rest with just two starters in their regular position, one of which is a keeper. That has nothing to do with nationality.

All of the goals against yesterday and most of the other good scoring chances were the fault of a handful of the foreign players. This was mentioned not because of some xenophobic witch hunt but because other posters had been pointing the finger at the Canadian players for the loss so people were defending them. That said, it is completely reasonable and fair to knock any player who is making 1.2 million and putting in performances that dont warrant a 0.2 million salary.

I don’t really get all of the Chapman and Hamilton bashing, it’s obvious that they are continuing to improve and that Vanney has increased trust in both players- it’s especially obvious when the coach has come out and said that himself. They have combined to create two goals in the past 3 games with a combined 3 starts and don’t underestimate that they don’t hurt you defensively (in fact the quite the opposite).  Is it easier to create goals when you have the lead? Yes. It’s also much more difficult to create goals on the road on unfamiliar turf when your team gives up two extremely poor goals in the first 7 minutes.  It was the goal that Chapman and Hamilton created which got TFC back into the game which made Vanney believe they had a chance to tie the game and make it worthwhile to bring on that unfit trio that you mentioned, so it makes perfect sense to take this opportunity to trash Hamilton and Chapman. 

The same  people defending Hamilton and Chapman have also said that they played better than  Ricketts so that rather  Undermines your theory that people are saying the Canadian players can do no wrong. The fact is this discussion started from people pointing the finger at the Canadians, not from people pointing the finger at the some of the foreigners

As for Spencer, he gets chances at the USL level and blows them. There is no guarantee or likelihood that he would get those chances at the MLS level where he has played two games this year, did nothing and was too slow to latch on to two chances that he had been set up for. 

 

Seattle came into to BMO with five key players out and won.  When i think about depth, thats what i mean.  Since we (myself included) thought that this team was deep, my belief was based on things like going to a place NE and performing similarly to what seattle did at BMO.  Maybe not the same result but similar.  That didnt happen.  Point is, the team did not look good irrespective of the defensive lapse.  I say and have said the exact same thing about the Colorado game, lets not look at the play of a severteen year old defender on that one.   This is what depth is:  If tmrw Giovinco and Altidore and Bradley decided to pack their bags could this team still compete for a playoff spot?  Dont think so.  Anyways this part is not what this discussion is about. 

Regarding your second paragraph. I take somewhat offense to the idea that i was bashing Chapman and Hamilton.  Where did i bash them?  What did i say that would consitute bashing? What did i say about them that was in anyway harsher that what i may have said about any other player (cnd or not).  Maybe thats the problem, had i said that about somebody else,  then it wouldnt be bashing.    I was very carefull not to and i never do.    I gave what i though was fair assessment based observation of their play and where there are now in their careers.  Just like i would have about Aketxe, or delgado or anybody else. This is a discussions forum, i do not get personal or get into judging character,  personality etc.  its based on play on the field.    If you read what is out there from objective observers regarding their value and contributions from these players i am not off base.    I was a big booster of these guys, i loved the game Chapman played in Seattle last year and i have been anxious to see more and more of Hamilton  I want to see these guys suceed as much as anyone here. I am routing for them as much as anybody but we cant deny what we see with our own two eyes and that it is looking like these guys (with every passing day) are not going to be stars in this game.  Nothing wrong with that and it doesnt mean that they dont have a place in the game or even in MLS but i has small implications when you look to 2022 and 2026. Wishing or willing it otherwise it otherwise is not going to change anything.  

Right now,  lets compare  the two aformentioned players,   Again i am not bashing here,  to someone like Hasler.  Hasler is about the same age as chapman.  But with Hasler, it seems that with every outing you see improvements.  First game i saw Hasler play, i was bah.  Nothing special.  But every subsequent outing, you always something bigger and better.  He is progressing much faster and at a higher and faster pace. To the point of showing he can make key game changing plays.  This is guy from a weak soccer nation and who came here and has to adapt to a different culture.  In my view he passed Chapman on the depth chart. Maybe its because he has more talent?  Maybe, maybe not.. But i would like to see this kind of progression from players Chapman and hamilton.  I wish it were otherwise. 

Finally, notice that i said nothing players like Telford and Fraser.  Thats because i want to see more and we need to see more before we know what this means for Canada and the Canadians on TFC.    With players like Osorio, Chapman, Hamilton and Morgan, we have sample size big enough to make an assessment now.   So far we have coverred the spectrum with these four.  As i would have expected from a development system for canadians.  Not everyone is going to be a star. 

You mention the xenophobic angle.  Its not xenophobia and again, i never said anyone was xenophobic.  But  boy i dont know how many times the past we have seen comments here from several others alluding in one way or another that there should be some sort of favourtism towards canadians or that there is bias towards Americans players etc etc.  In the big picture, i dont see that at all.  For the most part, i see minutes distributed to who deserves it.  The team draws 26-28k paying customers now, and they are accountable to those customers.  Each has their own reason for forking out money to be there but its safe to say that team performance, entertainment and results is the predominant factor that draws them.   Personally i want to see a good team with canadians and most importantly fair opportunities for canadians.  I hate it when there is no canadians on the pitch.  I am going to pump the tire of canadians but i am also going to be fair when i comment on their play.  

 

[BearcatSA]

18 hours ago, The Beaver said:

Hamilton brought a helluva lot more tonight than Tosaint. 

Ricketts' technical shortcomings really got exposed in this game. 

[Gian-Luca]

1 hour ago, Free kick said:

Seattle came into to BMO with five key players out and won.  When i think about depth, thats what i mean.  Since we (myself included) thought that this team was deep, my belief was based on things like going to a place NE and performing similarly to what seattle did at BMO.  Maybe not the same result but similar.  That didnt happen.  Point is, the team did not look good irrespective of the defensive lapse.  I say and have said the exact same thing about the Colorado game, lets not look at the play of a severteen year old defender on that one.   This is what depth is:  If tmrw Giovinco and Altidore and Bradley decided to pack their bags could this team still compete for a playoff spot?  Dont think so.  Anyways this part is not what this discussion is about. 

Regarding your second paragraph. I take somewhat offense to the idea that i was bashing Chapman and Hamilton.  Where did i bash them?  What did i say that would consitute bashing? What did i say about them that was in anyway harsher that what i may have said about any other player (cnd or not).  Maybe thats the problem, had i said that about somebody else,  then it wouldnt be bashing.    I was very carefull not to and i never do.    I gave what i though was fair assessment based observation of their play and where there are now in their careers.  Just like i would have about Aketxe, or delgado or anybody else. This is a discussions forum, i do not get personal or get into judging character,  personality etc.  its based on play on the field.    If you read what is out there from objective observers regarding their value and contributions from these players i am not off base.    I was a big booster of these guys, i loved the game Chapman played in Seattle last year and i have been anxious to see more and more of Hamilton  I want to see these guys suceed as much as anyone here. I am routing for them as much as anybody but we cant deny what we see with our own two eyes and that it is looking like these guys (with every passing day) are not going to be stars in this game.  Nothing wrong with that and it doesnt mean that they dont have a place in the game or even in MLS but i has small implications when you look to 2022 and 2026. Wishing or willing it otherwise it otherwise is not going to change anything.  

Right now,  lets compare  the two aformentioned players,   Again i am not bashing here,  to someone like Hasler.  Hasler is about the same age as chapman.  But with Hasler, it seems that with every outing you see improvements.  First game i saw Hasler play, i was bah.  Nothing special.  But every subsequent outing, you always something bigger and better.  He is progressing much faster and at a higher and faster pace. To the point of showing he can make key game changing plays.  This is guy from a weak soccer nation and who came here and has to adapt to a different culture.  In my view he passed Chapman on the depth chart. Maybe its because he has more talent?  Maybe, maybe not.. But i would like to see this kind of progression from players Chapman and hamilton.  I wish it were otherwise. 

Finally, notice that i said nothing players like Telford and Fraser.  Thats because i want to see more and we need to see more before we know what this means for Canada and the Canadians on TFC.    With players like Osorio, Chapman, Hamilton and Morgan, we have sample size big enough to make an assessment now.   So far we have coverred the spectrum with these four.  As i would have expected from a development system for canadians.  Not everyone is going to be a star. 

You mention the xenophobic angle.  Its not xenophobia and again, i never said anyone was xenophobic.  But  boy i dont know how many times the past we have seen comments here from several others alluding in one way or another that there should be some sort of favourtism towards canadians or that there is bias towards Americans players etc etc.  In the big picture, i dont see that at all.  For the most part, i see minutes distributed to who deserves it.  The team draws 26-28k paying customers now, and they are accountable to those customers.  Each has their own reason for forking out money to be there but its safe to say that team performance, entertainment and results is the predominant factor that draws them.   Personally i want to see a good team with canadians and most importantly fair opportunities for canadians.  I hate it when there is no canadians on the pitch.  I am going to pump the tire of canadians but i am also going to be fair when i comment on their play.  

 

TFC had even more regular starters & members of their normal 18 squad out than even Seattle did, TFC dominated them, Seattle bunkered and Seattle only won because of an offside goal that was suspiciously never even VAR reviewed as well as because of how hard hit TFC was in one particular position (how many other teams are down 4 CB's?). Fluke results occasionally  happen, although Seattle had the benefit of playing one of their 1st choice CB's and their 3rd choice CB while TFC was missing their top four and used a D-Mid and a Right back in that spot. After four games, playing those guys out of position because of the brutal injury list was bound to catch up to them. Even in that game, by the 2nd half you had just Bono & Osorio as starters playing in position.

As for the "bashing" comment - sorry, I wasn't trying to cause offense and I should have made it more obvious that I was referring to other posters here & in other forums, not just you. But I would put your comments about Hamilton in the bashing category. Perhaps you are unaware, but when you post something in all caps that comes across as equivalent of shouting/ranting which contributes to the bashing feeling.  More to the point, you said that he doesn't even get any scoring chances (flagrantly untrue - how do you think TFC got back into game yesterday, for starters?) and then called for Vanney to replace him with a player who did nothing in two games and can't even score at the USL level. You also said that he looks like he's going to be cut from the team. That's not "bashing"? If not, what is then - do you have to go as far as calling a player complete and total shit?  In any event Vanney's choice to give Hamilton playing time in important moments ahead of Ricketts & Spencer and his comments this week about how he trusts Hamilton far more this year because he's progressing would seem to indicate that he's not about to get cut from the team any time soon. On the contrary he appears to be supplanting Ricketts as 3rd choice striker.

For what its worth, I don't see the point of the Hasler comparison - he hasn't "passed" Chapman on the depth chart, he was signed to be  such from the get-go, initially for a position that Chapman would never normally play. They aren't really the same kind of player.

Overall, I'm not quite sure what people are expecting from Hamilton & Chapman - super-stardom? For them to be players that TFC will build around as the core of the team? In this new era of MLS when you can effectively have 6 or 7 designated players I don't think that is very likely to happen for any Canadians being developed out of the club. Possible yes, likely no and I don't think we should be upset or critical if that doesn't happen. If a player is a phenom like Davies then I'm not sure that TFC would even be able to hold on to them (that's a debate for another day - Vancouver is less likely to, I think we can agree). Realistically we should be expecting these non-phenom guys to become solid contributors to a top MLS club and the recent trust shown by the coach and the two-way productivity by these two players have shown they are continuing on that path. If Delgado puts away the sitter at the end of the Champions league final, Chapman & Hamilton would have gone down in history as two players who came off the bench in a CCL final and were involved in a key play that won TFC a continental championship, but a few weeks later, despite some solid contributions since then and more playing time ahead of veteran Canadians or high-priced foreigners, we're talking about these players playing so bad as to get themselves cut from the team?

And yes, while you never said that anyone was xenophobic, that's what the "Blame the foreigners" barb would seem to suggest that you were implying about them, otherwise what is the point of the comment? People were blaming some (not all) of the foreign players on the three goals because quite obviously those particular players were the ones responsible for the goals and they were only doing so after it had been suggested that playing Canadians was to blame for the loss. They obviously weren't blaming Giovinco, Vazquez or Mavinga (or Auro for that matter), and they were lamenting all of the injuries (none of which are to Canadian players). You talk about objectivity - how can anyone objectively speaking put the blame on the Canadian players for those goals against?

Everyone is affected by bias and has their own opinions. Everyone calls it as they see it. No doubt there is favouritism for Canadian players on a Canadian board, but the reverse can also happen, where fans are harsher on players than they need to be because they are Canadian  - that happens on the boards as much as it does in the stands where its assumed that Canadian players are not there on merit. And yes, I'm of the view that the foreign players who are earning 7 figures  (or even those making four or five times as much as the non-star Canadians) to be held to a higher standard & accountability than the local boys who are making peanuts in comparison to them. Is that so unfair? And if you think it is, why?

 

[Bison44]

On 5/12/2018 at 6:55 PM, Stryker911 said:

I was always a big believer in prioritizing Canadian playing time over wins, but that is really starting to be tested.

This was the original post GL and I were responding too. It was insinuating that prioritizing the CDN was costing us wins.  Which I dont think is the case, in this game the first 2 goals can be laid squarely on the feet of glaring errors by non cdn DP's. (Aketxe is basically a DP).   So I was merely pointing that out.  And we arent prioritizing CDN, as having 5-7 non CDN injured means Vanney is forced to play the end of his bench (CDN kids). And these comments were made at halftime during the game. 

FREE KICK:  The results of playing these kinds of guys are predictable, as are the result when you throw 3 starters back into the lineup (see your comment about things improving when Gio, Mavinga, Vasquez came in).  WOW, when the coach put 2 MLS best 11 players back into the game over bench players it got better.  REALLY?? Because you repeated that several times in your post free kick,  like it was some amazing ipiphany you just had.  And the bit about its not just about making mistakes, there is more to the game flow etc.  Thats all true but if you pass the ball straight to the opponent and he takes 1dribble and shoots it into your empty net I would say that  deserves to be mentioned, foreigner or not.  But especially a guy that is essentially a DP.  

As far as how Chapman and Hamilton are developing thats all good and fair, we can speculate on whether they should be farther along or regressing etc etc.  (and chapman is 24, Hasler 27 so almost the same age ) But if you think bench players usually step into the shoes of all stars and there is no drop off, you must be smoking something.  I dont think anyone was advocating sitting Altidore or Vasquez so Chapman/Hamilton can start.  We are all just hoping that they'll show some improvment when they get shots like this and Vanney will be more comfortable throwing them in.  But I'll be damned if on a Voyageur forum I cant show some bias to CDN kids.  Thats what we are all here for to root for and watch CDN soccer players.  If this bothers you go to some generic TFC fan board.  I want CDN clubs to do well with CDN players.  

[Unnamed Trialist]

TFC fans have to live the day to day frustrations, but most of us who are not here are fully convinced they'll not only make the playoffs but likely go deep. The Champions League experience also puts TFC in a position to be dangerous in the Voyageurs Cup.

If that is any comfort.

[grasshopper1917]

13 hours ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

TFC fans have to live the day to day frustrations, but most of us who are not here are fully convinced they'll not only make the playoffs but likely go deep. The Champions League experience also puts TFC in a position to be dangerous in the Voyageurs Cup.

If that is any comfort.

Will TFC 100% even make Voyageurs cup a priority after what has transpired so far this year? Im not saying they wont, or shouldn't however there may be some people in the organization who are having their doubts.

[Ivan]

They may play their back ups in the first series with Ottawa, but I think they will go all in for the final.  They will want to get back to Champions League after coming so close.

[Unnamed Trialist]

7 hours ago, Ivan said:

They may play their back ups in the first series with Ottawa, but I think they will go all in for the final.  They will want to get back to Champions League after coming so close.

You have to think about repeating the experience, like the first loss of the MLS Cup, deserving to win, very close, against a lot of odds. YOu have to play finals to win them. 

I am hoping for Caps to take it since if there is any team who is not dedicated to winning it, it's the Caps. But we also went deep in the ConcaChampions the only time we participated, it is not the most difficult competition out there, if you get a decent draw.

[Club Linesman]

13 hours ago, Ivan said:

They may play their back ups in the first series with Ottawa, but I think they will go all in for the final.  They will want to get back to Champions League after coming so close.

TFC has stated they want to till the trophy case and the one trophy that eludes them is the Concacaf Champions League. As UT said - they had the experience and will now know better how to handle everything and take the tournament to its conclusion.  I would expect they will do just enough to win the CCL again and then go all out to with the Concacaf Champions League.  The thought of having TFC playing the European winner in a meaningful game is a very powerful draw, and MLSE would eat that up.  Besides the recognition for MLS which would be a feather in the cap for MLSE, it would give them even more power, not just financial, when trying to get even better talent to commit to TFC and MLS.  Too much at stake to not go all out to win it.

[Gian-Luca]

4 Canucks starting for TFC against Orlando tonight, with some surprises- Ricketts and Morgan are not two of them. Morgan isn’t even dressed so not sure if he has picked up an injury. Looks like they are going 3-6-1 or something with Telfer on the left wing and Hamilton starting as a lone  striker. Not  surprising that Aketxe starts on the bench but a bit surprising that Delgado isn’t starting. Then again he did look very tired against New England

[jpg75]

Is that a Jamaican accent i hear on Ryan Telfer!? Born and raised in T.O. lol....great goal though. And Chapman with the opener, good night for Canadians.

[mpg_29]

 

[Keegan]

8 Canadians playing between both teams. Telfer and Ricketts looked good I thought and Chapman has potential but leaves a lot to be desired.. if he can make an Osorio type leap in his all around game he’ll be a Canada regular.  Great goal by Telfer and that accent.. sort of like DeRo.

[Gian-Luca]

1 hour ago, jpg75 said:

Is that a Jamaican accent i hear on Ryan Telfer!? Born and raised in T.O. lol....great goal though. And Chapman with the opener, good night for Canadians.

Hamilton struggled up top alone  tonight (I think he tried to do too much on his own in the 2nd half) and Osorio was somewhat of a non-factor by his standards, but everyone else had a good night. For TFC that is, Johnson didn't do any favours for those on this board arguing he should be starting at right back for the national team.

For all the talk and money spent on TAM it was nice to see the young depth Canucks be the heroes tonight.

On the post game show on TSN radio they said it was a T&T accent. That was after the first caller who called said it was embarrassing that they gave the MOTM to a York U grad, which is more evidence that some local fans have a bias against Canadian players.

 

[jpg75]

6 hours ago, Gian-Luca said:

On the post game show on TSN radio they said it was a T&T accent. That was after the first caller who called said it was embarrassing that they gave the MOTM to a York U grad, which is more evidence that some local fans have a bias against Canadian players.

My mistake, a Trini accent. Way thicker than DeRo though, he had the accent that rubs off on you from your parents the way Southern Europeans do. Telfer reminded me of how some of our Nats would speak after a year of living in England.

Sounds like the first caller is a fuckin idiot.

[Ivan]

2 hours ago, jpg75 said:

My mistake, a Trini accent. Way thicker than DeRo though, he had the accent that rubs off on you from your parents the way Southern Europeans do. Telfer reminded me of how some of our Nats would speak after a year of living in England.

Sounds like the first caller is a fuckin idiot.

Dunfield said he grew up in T & T, and moved to Canada in 2011.  He sure looked good though.

I listened to the radio show on the way home as well.  To be fair to the first caller, I think he meant it was embarrassing that a York U grad was MOTM while we have so many imported stars?  And @Gianluca, I think the next 2 or 3 callers all commented how great it was that so many Canadians were seeing the field, playing well, and thing s were looking up for the NT.  So it may not be as bad as the first caller made it sound.  I have a 1.5 hour drive home so I get to listen to the whole show.