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Ansem

Dejan Jaković

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3 hours ago, Ansem said:

 CPL not coming out with the exact quotas and international spots could be a way to adjust to what's going on during transfer windows

They've got over a year to announce these things in any case. I don't expect to hear anything like this for almost a year. There's just no point. That doesn't mean they have worked that all out of course.

 

Edited by dbailey62

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20 hours ago, Obinna said:

Buy the Canadian internationals up now so they can sell them to the CanPL later...

Players want to play at a higher level where they can earn more money. There are at least three more MLS franchises coming over the horizon soon after LAFC with around 60 roster positions that will provide salaries beyond what a low budget start up pro league in Canada would have to offer. At least some of those new jobs in MLS will go to Canadians. The expansion process is likely to continue until they reach 32 or so and will almost inevitably hoover up more CMNT players in the years ahead.  CanPL, if it ever actually does launch, will be another much needed stepping stone to bigger and better things for Canadian players rather than the desired destination for players that are likely to make a serious impact for the CMNT in World Cup qualifiers or Gold cup tornaments, unless a much more serious level of investment starts to materialize than the one that has been talked about in podcasts and interviews by Paul Beirne and Brian Clanachan over the last year or so.

Edited by BringBackTheBlizzard

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14 minutes ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

Players want to play at a higher level where they can earn more money. There are at least three more MLS franchises coming over the horizon soon after LAFC with around 60 roster positions that will provide salaries beyond what a low budget start up pro league in Canada would have to offer. At least some of those new jobs in MLS will go to Canadians. The expansion process is likely to continue until they reach 32 or so and will almost inevitably hoover up more CMNT players in the years ahead.  CanPL, if it ever actually does launch, will be another much needed stepping stone to bigger and better things for Canadian players rather than the desired destination for players that are likely to make a serious impact for the CMNT in World Cup qualifiers or Gold cup tornaments, unless a much more serious level of investment starts to materialize than the one that has been talked about in podcasts and interviews by Paul Beirne and Brian Clanachan over the last year or so.

Rationalism has no place on this forum - and certainly not as far as the CPL is concerned. 

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1 hour ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

Players want to play at a higher level where they can earn more money. There are at least three more MLS franchises coming over the horizon soon after LAFC with around 60 roster positions that will provide salaries beyond what a low budget start up pro league in Canada would have to offer. At least some of those new jobs in MLS will go to Canadians. The expansion process is likely to continue until they reach 32 or so and will almost inevitably hoover up more CMNT players in the years ahead.  CanPL, if it ever actually does launch, will be another much needed stepping stone to bigger and better things for Canadian players rather than the desired destination for players that are likely to make a serious impact for the CMNT in World Cup qualifiers or Gold cup tornaments, unless a much more serious level of investment starts to materialize than the one that has been talked about in podcasts and interviews by Paul Beirne and Brian Clanachan over the last year or so.

 

48 minutes ago, WheatsheafSK said:

Rationalism has no place on this forum - and certainly not as far as the CPL is concerned. 

Just to be clear, I didn't say I believed such a theory. I agree that MDS is likely the biggest factor.

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1 hour ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

Players want to play at a higher level where they can earn more money. There are at least three more MLS franchises coming over the horizon soon after LAFC with around 60 roster positions that will provide salaries beyond what a low budget start up pro league in Canada would have to offer. At least some of those new jobs in MLS will go to Canadians. The expansion process is likely to continue until they reach 32 or so and will almost inevitably hoover up more CMNT players in the years ahead.  CanPL, if it ever actually does launch, will be another much needed stepping stone to bigger and better things for Canadian players rather than the desired destination for players that are likely to make a serious impact for the CMNT in World Cup qualifiers or Gold cup tornaments, unless a much more serious level of investment starts to materialize than the one that has been talked about in podcasts and interviews by Paul Beirne and Brian Clanachan over the last year or so.

Your post is complete nonsense.  Recent expansion sides Minnesota and Atlanta each picked up zero Canadians.  LAFC only picked up Canadians because they have a Canadian assistant coach.  To think MLS expansion sides will "inevitably" be handing out contracts to Canadian players is laughable and has no precedent.  

What does have reliable precedent is the impact that a national league has on a national team, regardless of the relative strength of the league.  El Salvador and Honduras have modest leagues, the pay is poor and the level is not much better.  But when you have a consistent league where your best players play eachother on a consistent basis, the cream has a chance to rise to the top, and those players are consistent contributers to their national teams.    

It can happen here too and we know that because it has happened here before.  One only need to consider the old CSL (1987-1992), a very modest league that produced various national team contributors for the 1994 WCQ such as Geoff Aunger, Dominic Mobilio, Lyndon Hooper, Paul Peschisolido, Alex Bunbury, Tomasz Radzinski, the list goes on.   

Edited by BrennanFan

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2 hours ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

Players want to play at a higher level where they can earn more money. There are at least three more MLS franchises coming over the horizon soon after LAFC with around 60 roster positions that will provide salaries beyond what a low budget start up pro league in Canada would have to offer. At least some of those new jobs in MLS will go to Canadians. The expansion process is likely to continue until they reach 32 or so and will almost inevitably hoover up more CMNT players in the years ahead.  CanPL, if it ever actually does launch, will be another much needed stepping stone to bigger and better things for Canadian players rather than the desired destination for players that are likely to make a serious impact for the CMNT in World Cup qualifiers or Gold cup tornaments, unless a much more serious level of investment starts to materialize than the one that has been talked about in podcasts and interviews by Paul Beirne and Brian Clanachan over the last year or so.

How many Canadian players were employed by US based MLS teams last season who played any significant minutes? Larin, Johnson & Akindele. Am I missing anyone ?

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2 hours ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

Players want to play at a higher level where they can earn more money. There are at least three more MLS franchises coming over the horizon soon after LAFC with around 60 roster positions that will provide salaries beyond what a low budget start up pro league in Canada would have to offer. At least some of those new jobs in MLS will go to Canadians. The expansion process is likely to continue until they reach 32 or so and will almost inevitably hoover up more CMNT players in the years ahead.  CanPL, if it ever actually does launch, will be another much needed stepping stone to bigger and better things for Canadian players rather than the desired destination for players that are likely to make a serious impact for the CMNT in World Cup qualifiers or Gold cup tornaments, unless a much more serious level of investment starts to materialize than the one that has been talked about in podcasts and interviews by Paul Beirne and Brian Clanachan over the last year or so.

Correction* The GM of LAFC JOHN THORRINGTON IS EX-TEAMMATE WITH DEJAN WHEN THEY WERE BOTH AT DCUNITED 

 

primary reason why he's back in the MLS

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6 hours ago, Kadenge said:

How many Canadian players were employed by US based MLS teams last season who played any significant minutes? Larin, Johnson & Akindele. Am I missing anyone ?

Laryea got some pretty decent minutes for Orlando as the season went on.

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13 hours ago, BrennanFan said:

...Geoff Aunger, Dominic Mobilio, Lyndon Hooper, Paul Peschisolido, Alex Bunbury, Tomasz Radzinski, the list goes on.   

Let's go through this slowly again. The argument I responded to was the notion that MLS is somehow stocking up on CMNT players to sell to CanPL, if it actually launches in 2019. In reality, players want to play at the highest level they can and make the most money they can given pro soccer is a short career with many decades of retirement afterwards, so that would run counter to the natural pecking order. If they have to choose between MLS and a much lower budget and lower profile Canadian league with significantly lower playing standards most of them are probably going to stick with MLS.

It may even be no slam dunk to compete financially with some of the larger independent USL teams financially (plus the NASL if it's still around), because the level of spectator interest in CanPL remains to be seen. It's easy to say that you expect 6000-10000, but it's not obvious why FC Edmonton type crowds would not in fact be the norm and that means teams like FC Cincinatti can swoop in and tempt away players like Daryl Fordyce (yes I know he is from Northern Ireland) by offering better money.

Tomasz Radzinski's dream in life was to play for clubs like Everton and Anderlecht rather than the North York Rockets or St Catherines Roma and once he had moved onto bigger and better things he wasn't going to drop everything and return if CUSL had been able to launch. Same goes for the likes of Alex Bunbury and Paul Peschisolido. That's why I used the analogy of a stepping stone as opposed to being the desired destination where a league like CanPL is concerned.

CanPL would be good news for Unaffiliated FC type players on the fringes of the CMNT roster and more Canadian pro teams are very much needed for just that reason, but people are dreaming in technicolour if they think it would be a significant factor where the core of the roster is concerned and that probably goes for the development side of things as well. If the three MLS teams had been around in the 1980s, their academy systems would probably have identified and signed most of the CSL players you listed above when they were around 14 years old.

Edited by BringBackTheBlizzard

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5 hours ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

Let's go through this slowly again. The argument I responded to was the notion that MLS is somehow stocking up on CMNT players to sell to CanPL, if it actually launches in 2019. In reality, players want to play at the highest level they can and make the most money they can given pro soccer is a short career with many decades of retirement afterwards, so that would run counter to the natural pecking order. If they have to choose between MLS and a much lower budget and lower profile Canadian league with significantly lower playing standards most of them are probably going to stick with MLS.

It may even be no slam dunk to compete financially with some of the larger independent USL teams financially (plus the NASL if it's still around), because the level of spectator interest in CanPL remains to be seen. It's easy to say that you expect 6000-10000, but it's not obvious why FC Edmonton type crowds would not in fact be the norm and that means teams like FC Cincinatti can swoop in and tempt away players like Daryl Fordyce (yes I know he is from Northern Ireland) by offering better money.

Tomasz Radzinski's dream in life was to play for clubs like Everton and Anderlecht rather than the North York Rockets or St Catherines Roma and once he had moved onto bigger and better things he wasn't going to drop everything and return if CUSL had been able to launch. Same goes for the likes of Alex Bunbury and Paul Peschisolido. That's why I used the analogy of a stepping stone as opposed to being the desired destination where a league like CanPL is concerned.

CanPL would be good news for Unaffiliated FC type players on the fringes of the CMNT roster and more Canadian pro teams are very much needed for just that reason, but people are dreaming in technicolour if they think it would be a significant factor where the core of the roster is concerned and that probably goes for the development side of things as well. If the three MLS teams had been around in the 1980s, their academy systems would probably have identified and signed most of the CSL players you listed above when they were around 14 years old.

Again, youre off the mark. I agree players will usually take the highest paying contracts.  You fail to address the real issue, which is that MLS has consistently failed to offer fair value contracts to Canadian players. This occurs for various reasons, the fact that Canadians count as internationals is a big factor, but so is favourtism towards providing jobs to American journeyman. Thus your point is moot, in that for the vast majority of Canadian players there will be no "choice" between MLS and CPL. 

You assert that CPL will only be valuable for players on the fringe of the CMNT and youth players. I don't know what you mean by fringe, but to me that's someone who doesn't make every cmnt roster and certainly doesn't see the pitch. This is wrong and lets be specific about it.  For example, a couple years ago Adam Straith, our starting CB in WCQ was offered such a pathetic low ball contract by TFC that he instead went to Edmonton FC.  Ouimette, who also started a WCQ, is another player who was cut by MLS and would be an ideal candidate for CPL.  Lefevre, Tissot, Crepeau, Bekker, these are all players who have been discarded by MLS, who are not first choice players for us but given injuries and suspension could easily see serious minutes in WCQ. 

There will also be those players who will choose CPL bc they will value playing time over money.  I think we will see many good young MLS level players choose CPL for this reason, for example Jordan Hamilton, Chapman, Bustos etc, all of whom could be contributors to the CMNT next WCQ. 

We will also see players come out of nowhere to be CMNT players thanks to CPL.  The top new 2-3 players unearthed by CPL will make CMNT rosters, thats just how national leagues work.

Players will gravitate to CPL bc it will be a pathway to the CMNT in a way that will make playing in USL or NASL much less attractive.

I agree we wont be seeing Arfield or Hoilett play in CPL.  But realistically, its only our top 8 to 10 players who will not be options for CPL.  CPL will be a massive benefit for everyone else on various levels.  Even established MLS guys like Akindele, Osorio and Tiebert will at least use CPL to leverage better MLS contracts. 

 

Edited by BrennanFan

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3 minutes ago, BrennanFan said:

....You fail to address the real issue, which is that MLS has consistently failed to offer fair value contracts to Canadian players...

Why would I address that when the issue I was addressing was the notion that MLS is stockpiling Canadian players due to the possible emergence of CanPL? You are going off on a tangent I have no interest in pursuing with you.

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5 minutes ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

Why would I address that when the issue I was addressing was the notion that MLS is stockpiling Canadian players due to the possible emergence of CanPL? You are going off on a tangent I have no interest in pursuing with you.

Of course you don't.  In the future please keep your useless anti CPL straw man arguments to yourself.

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22 hours ago, Obinna said:

Just to be clear, I didn't say I believed such a theory. I agree that MDS is likely the biggest factor.

Fair enough. Will be interesting to see what the role of MDS is at LAFC and whether he will be a de facto head coach like Bob Gansler was rumoured to be with TFC in 2007 given Mo Johnston was too busy with the GM role to be fully hands on with the coaching side of things. Only thing that's worth pointing out beyond that is that the Cosmos and FC Miami have been rumoured to be spending big on salaries, so it's possible that Dejan Jakovic was in NASL mainly because he could get better money there than in MLS, and not because MLS teams didn't rate him. Bob Bradley must be aware of him from what he did with DC United? It's more Mark-Anthony Kaye that would have probably needed to be brought to his attention.

Edited by BringBackTheBlizzard

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13 minutes ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

Fair enough. Will be interesting to see what the role of MDS is at LAFC and whether he will be a de facto head coach like Bob Gansler was rumoured to be with TFC in 2007 given Mo Johnston was too busy with the GM role to be fully hands on with the coaching side of things. Only thing that's worth pointing out beyond that is that the Cosmos and FC Miami have been rumoured to be spending big on salaries, so it's possible that Dejan Jakovic was in NASL mainly because he could get better money there than in MLS, and not because MLS teams didn't rate him. Bob Bradley must be aware of him from what he did with DC United? It's more Mark-Anthony Kaye that would have probably needed to be brought to his attention.

I also think that's the case. I insinuated that on the 1st page of this thread.

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Helped by having no Kamara to deal with but a good sign that his return to the line up got his team a clean sheet. He is always been good on the ball, being a bit slow to close down and soft to play against have been his Achilles heel IMO but it seems he is rated by Bradley more than most had predicted and the former conspiracy theory debated earlier in the thread about his signing being to thwart or profit off the CPL looks less and less likely to be the case.

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Jakovic has always been good on the ball and calm under pressure. The problem is that he is slow (like Vitoria) and that's a real issue playing against the teams we have to beat to get to and compete in the hex. Guys like Albert Elis will destroy us with slow footed defenders. If anyone watched the game between Houston and the Whitecaps, Elis tore De Jong to shreds down the wing. We might be able to get away with one slow CB, but it's a liability that  has to be compensated with taking a fullback or centre midfielder out of the attacking formula and holding them back to deal with counter attacks. In my opinion that's like playing with 10 men.

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On 31/01/2018 at 1:31 PM, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

Players want to play at a higher level where they can earn more money. There are at least three more MLS franchises coming over the horizon soon after LAFC with around 60 roster positions that will provide salaries beyond what a low budget start up pro league in Canada would have to offer. At least some of those new jobs in MLS will go to Canadians. The expansion process is likely to continue until they reach 32 or so and will almost inevitably hoover up more CMNT players in the years ahead.  CanPL, if it ever actually does launch, will be another much needed stepping stone to bigger and better things for Canadian players rather than the desired destination for players that are likely to make a serious impact for the CMNT in World Cup qualifiers or Gold cup tornaments, unless a much more serious level of investment starts to materialize than the one that has been talked about in podcasts and interviews by Paul Beirne and Brian Clanachan over the last year or so.

The CPL idea is to plant the seed of professional football in Canada and water it. Nobody has ever suggested that the goal on Day One was to have budgets that rival MLS. But if the league is successful, that day may eventually come.

And I'm sure you know this already which makes your comments totally disingenuous.

Edited by dsqpr

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23 hours ago, Gian-Luca said:

Helped by having no Kamara to deal with but a good sign that his return to the line up got his team a clean sheet. He is always been good on the ball, being a bit slow to close down and soft to play against have been his Achilles heel IMO but it seems he is rated by Bradley more than most had predicted and the former conspiracy theory debated earlier in the thread about his signing being to thwart or profit off the CPL looks less and less likely to be the case.

Did anybody without a traumatic brain injury actually believe that conspiracy theory?

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10 hours ago, dsqpr said:

The CPL idea is to plant the seed of professional football in Canada and water it. Nobody has ever suggested that the goal on Day One was to have budgets that rival MLS. But if the league is successful, that day may eventually come.

And I'm sure you know this already which makes your comments totally disingenuous.

Could you save the bizarre emotionally overwrought CanPL zealotry for the CanPL subforum? My point was that core CMNT players like Dejan Jakovic are unlikely to be much of a factor in CanPL unless they pay salaries that are competitive with MLS and top European leagues. You have quoted me highly selectively and you are not addressing my core arguments. I wrote the following above:

On 2018/02/01 at 10:13 AM, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

...CanPL would be good news for Unaffiliated FC type players on the fringes of the CMNT roster and more Canadian pro teams are very much needed for just that reason, but people are dreaming in technicolour if they think it would be a significant factor where the core of the roster is concerned and that probably goes for the development side of things as well. If the three MLS teams had been around in the 1980s, their academy systems would probably have identified and signed most of the CSL players you listed above when they were around 14 years old.

Is there any part of that you would disagree with?

Edited by BringBackTheBlizzard

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5 hours ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

Could you save the bizarre emotionally overwrought CanPL zealotry for the CanPL subforum? My point was that core CMNT players like Dejan Jakovic are unlikely to be much of a factor in CanPL unless they pay salaries that are competitive with MLS and top European leagues. You have quoted me highly selectively and you are not addressing my core arguments. I wrote the following above:

Is there any part of that you would disagree with?

^^^^utter and complete douchebag

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7 hours ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

Could you save the bizarre emotionally overwrought CanPL zealotry for the CanPL subforum? My point was that core CMNT players like Dejan Jakovic are unlikely to be much of a factor in CanPL unless they pay salaries that are competitive with MLS and top European leagues. You have quoted me highly selectively and you are not addressing my core arguments. I wrote the following above:

Is there any part of that you would disagree with?

"Emotionally overwrought CPL zealotry"? LOL! Oh the irony!

I was responding to one particular post and I quoted the entire thing, and bolded the part I was particularly responding to. My point was that the CPL does not need a massive initial investment in order to grow to the point where it rivals MLS (and would then be a very viable destination for CMNT players). Which seems to have been obvious to most.

I have not read the different post that you quoted and hence was not responding to it and cannot say whether I agree with it. To be honest I do not read very many of your posts because you seem to have an axe to grind and I'm not really interested in hearing it. And I have a strong sense that I'm not the only one who has little to no interest in your "emotionally overwrought" anti-CPL "zealotry".

Edited by dsqpr

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