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Dejan Jaković

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28 minutes ago, dsqpr said:

...To be honest I do not read very many of your posts because you seem to have an axe to grind and I'm not really interested in hearing it.

...but you still felt the need to respond despite not being interested. Roll on this CanPL thing finally reaching whatever resolution it is going to reach, so people have to deal with mundane reality rather than preferred fantasy scenarios. In that mundane reality professional players will no doubt be chasing the highest possible paycheque and greatest possible prestige as they have always done. nolbertos posted this from a poster on the Southsiders board last week who claimed Martin Nash had told him that the salary cap should be $250,000 higher so they could compete properly with USL never mind MLS.

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It's by no means a given that CanPL would even be able to compete financially for fringe CMNT players like Keven Aleman with the top independent USL teams like Sacramento that are in 2 million plus metro areas with no MLS competition and can draw relatively large crowds.

Edited by BringBackTheBlizzard

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56 minutes ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

...but you still felt the need to respond despite not being interested.

Yet another ridiculous response. I said I do not read very many of your posts. Obviously I did read the one to which I responded.

The point I am trying to make, which you are either not grasping or are pretending not to grasp, is that the initial salary level of the CPL is immaterial. The growth of the league, in stature and revenue, is what matters.

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1 hour ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

It's by no means a given that CanPL would even be able to compete financially for fringe CMNT players like Keven Aleman with the top independent USL teams like Sacramento that are in 2 million plus metro areas with no MLS competition and can draw relatively large crowds.

Part of the USL's business model is pretty low salaries though, with the exception of a couple ambitious teams.  No minimum salary, above average players rumoured at 2000 plus a monthsand the very top end at 3000 plus a month.  

2017 USL attendance:

- only 3 teams above 8000 average (Cincinnati, Sacramento, Louisville)

- only 6 more teams above 5000, one being Ottawa.  

So if most teams in CanPl year one are able to average in 4000 to 8000 range there is no reason they can't compete for players of Aleman's level.  They might not get HIM, if Sacramento is willing to pay him more, but other very good USL players like Pasher, Bekker, Gee, Eustaquio, and Kacher should be attainable.  As well as some American, Caribbean, and Central American talent from other USL teams.

Also there are plenty of Canadian players who would rather play close to home given relatively equal salaries either way.  

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46 minutes ago, Shortdutchcanuck said:

Part of the USL's business model is pretty low salaries though, ...

That made Martin Nash's alleged comment somewhat surprising to me in an encouraging sort of way given some of the wilder rhetoric we have seen online in recent years. Keeping expenses under control to the point it's probably more or less in line with the sort of thing the Fury are doing post-NASL would help to avoid losses of a scale that would lead to the one and done scenario of the CPSL in 1983.

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58 minutes ago, Shortdutchcanuck said:

Part of the USL's business model is pretty low salaries though, with the exception of a couple ambitious teams.  No minimum salary, above average players rumoured at 2000 plus a monthsand the very top end at 3000 plus a month.  

2017 USL attendance:

- only 3 teams above 8000 average (Cincinnati, Sacramento, Louisville)

- only 6 more teams above 5000, one being Ottawa.  

So if most teams in CanPl year one are able to average in 4000 to 8000 range there is no reason they can't compete for players of Aleman's level.  They might not get HIM, if Sacramento is willing to pay him more, but other very good USL players like Pasher, Bekker, Gee, Eustaquio, and Kacher should be attainable.  As well as some American, Caribbean, and Central American talent from other USL teams.

Also there are plenty of Canadian players who would rather play close to home given relatively equal salaries either way.  

Very good point about salaries, looks like rumored CPL being not that far off rumored USL numbers, minus the 3-4 (out of 33) that are big spenders. So I guess CPL hypothetically wouldnt be able to compete with the high end USL teams, but probably would for the other 90% of the league.  

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56 minutes ago, Bison44 said:

Very good point about salaries, looks like rumored CPL being not that far off rumored USL numbers, minus the 3-4 (out of 33) that are big spenders. So I guess CPL hypothetically wouldnt be able to compete with the high end USL teams, but probably would for the other 90% of the league.  

By the numbers published by the Spectator, CPL would actually be way above what most USL teams are spending.

Several different journalists have corroborated a ~2000/month salary only paid in-season as the norm in USL (3000 for "above average" players), with internal documents from the league outlining expectations of about $200,000-400,000 to be spent on player salaries (as a minimum I suspect, as there are reports of FCC and Sacramento spending a couple million). Across a 25 man roster, that's $8000 for a 6 month season at the bottom end, and $18,000 on the upper end, excluding the big spenders

If the Spectator's report of $40,000-60,000 CAD being the average is accurate for CPL, CPL would blow past most of the USL. 

Personally I doubt those numbers, just because it is difficult to see how 5000 fans at a $20-30 price point gets you there, but we'll see what happens next year. McMahon actually estimated higher salaries based on the expenditures advertised by Clanachan. And I guess we're now hearing that someone who apparently talked to Martin Nash said salaries are lower than USL would conflict with that, but I think all that the above demonstrates is that we have to wait and see. 

Regardless, I think the vast majority of us would be happy with roughly USL level, it's watchable. 

Back to the actual topic, I've been reading around some of the LAFC fan sites, seems like most are impressed by Jakovic. I'm pleasantly surprised 

Edited by Complete Homer

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3 hours ago, dsqpr said:

"Emotionally overwrought CPL zealotry"? LOL! Oh the irony!

I was responding to one particular post and I quoted the entire thing, and bolded the part I was particularly responding to. My point was that the CPL does not need a massive initial investment in order to grow to the point where it rivals MLS (and would then be a very viable destination for CMNT players). Which seems to have been obvious to most.

I have not read the different post that you quoted and hence was not responding to it and cannot say whether I agree with it. To be honest I do not read very many of your posts because you seem to have an axe to grind and I'm not really interested in hearing it. And I have a strong sense that I'm not the only one who has little to no interest in your "emotionally overwrought" anti-CPL "zealotry".

I think these owners who are investing in teams will be putting in significant investments and that's a good thing and that's what will be needed. In order for this league to catch up to the MLS that all depends on how much more the MLS grows economically which is hard to say how much more it can grow. The MLS can still grow it's TV ratings substantially but will it, and it still needs to grow attendance in a few markets so who knows. The thing holding back the MLS is that Americans are use to following the best leagues in the world in all of the other leagues ,  the MLS is not the best league in the world so it does hold it back from growing even more it makes it harder for it to grow. Therefore, it does give the CPL time to catch up but like I said major money needs to be spent which is what we should want, your just not going to open the doors and expect people to come, and from what I'm seeing I'm getting the feeling that they will be spending a good amount of money which they need to.

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8 hours ago, 1996 said:

I think these owners who are investing in teams will be putting in significant investments and that's a good thing and that's what will be needed. In order for this league to catch up to the MLS that all depends on how much more the MLS grows economically which is hard to say how much more it can grow. The MLS can still grow it's TV ratings substantially but will it, and it still needs to grow attendance in a few markets so who knows. The thing holding back the MLS is that Americans are use to following the best leagues in the world in all of the other leagues ,  the MLS is not the best league in the world so it does hold it back from growing even more it makes it harder for it to grow. Therefore, it does give the CPL time to catch up but like I said major money needs to be spent which is what we should want, your just not going to open the doors and expect people to come, and from what I'm seeing I'm getting the feeling that they will be spending a good amount of money which they need to.

Sorry about the thread hijack, but yes, I certainly agree that the initial investment needs to be large enough for CPL to gain traction as a professional league.

As for catching up to MLS, I do not see why MLS should be a benchmark of any significance. If MLS and CPL both grow together and get better and better players, great.

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3 hours ago, Club Linesman said:

Not a big fan but he did a great job tonight shutting down Giovinco particularlyand TFC in general.  TFC did not find a way to exploit his lack of pace.  Would be ok with him playing the CMNT game with that level of performance.

I thought he was solid, too, and deserves the kudos.  Didn't dive in, made some good decisions and reads, but he and his partner also got some good defensive midfield coverage to help out.   

Maybe he's earned himself one of the starting spots in the back line, regardless of whether it's a back three or four.

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6 hours ago, BearcatSA said:

Maybe he's earned himself one of the starting spots in the back line, regardless of whether it's a back three or four.

He didn't need to earn it, he's been one of our most consistent starters for years and has been excellent for the NT lately. He may be 33, but he hasn't shown any indication that he's too old for the national team yet.

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3 hours ago, Zem said:

He didn't need to earn it...

When we get to the point in the program that we have strong competition for every starting place, anyone needs to earn it.  No one in this business should run on reputation alone. 

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On 9/1/2018 at 8:54 PM, Club Linesman said:

Not a big fan but he did a great job tonight shutting down Giovinco particularlyand TFC in general.  TFC did not find a way to exploit his lack of pace.  Would be ok with him playing the CMNT game with that level of performance.

I am probably guilty of this too, but I think we are making too much of his "lack of pace". 

This whole pace thing really became a talking point after the Jamaica gold cup knock out match. He was badly exposed, but he was up against Darren Mattocks and Romario Williams. Let's keep that in mind.

Just an interesting example of how reputations can differ from reality. 

 

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13 minutes ago, Obinna said:

This whole pace thing really became a talking point after the Jamaica gold cup knock out match. He was badly exposed, but he was up against Darren Mattocks and Romario Williams. Let's keep that in mind.

I believe he was paired with Vitoria in that game. While Jakovic has lost some pace, he's nowhere as slow as Vitoria who can look like a pylon standing next to a pylon. Jakovic needs to be paired with a quicker defender such as Henry or James.

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6 hours ago, Obinna said:

I am probably guilty of this too, but I think we are making too much of his "lack of pace". 

This whole pace thing really became a talking point after the Jamaica gold cup knock out match. He was badly exposed, but he was up against Darren Mattocks and Romario Williams. Let's keep that in mind.

Just an interesting example of how reputations can differ from reality. 

 

LAFC are renown for defending in a low block and then using Rossi and Vela's pace off the counter to create chances, so there's very little space behind. Not only that but Jakovic is partnered with Walker Zimmerman who is relatively athletic and defensively responsible FBs, Harvey and Beitashour.

Edited by PopePouri

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2 hours ago, PopePouri said:

LAFC are renown for defending in a low block and then using Rossi and Vela's pace off the counter to create chances, so there's very little space behind. Not only that but Jakovic is partnered with Walker Zimmerman who is relatively athleticism and defensively responsible FBs, Harvey and Beitashour.

It was very strong team defending for most of this match.  Also, their midfield, notably their young Colombian in the d-mid role, was well positioned almost all evening long.  However, in an earlier road game loss this season vs Minnesota, Jakovic and his teammates were left pretty exposed when they didn't have that midfield support. 

There's an old footballing expression that goes, "the first ten yards is in your head," and sometimes that's so true.  There are many top flight CBs that don't have wheels but compensate in other ways.  I don't have an issue with Jakovic's perceived lack of pace but sometimes he loses his mark a little too easily/ball watching and that's where issues have arisen. 

Edited by BearcatSA

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 generally speaking , in  top leagues very few defenders including big CBs get  torched by opposing forwards. Same was true during the WC. Without speed you have to be a sure footed tackler with sound positioning and be super disciplined. Still it's difficult to execute a high press with slow CBs.  To be successful on attack you need sustained pressure in the opposing half with CBs blocking the outlet pass. That's where we got burned on the counter not just against Jamaica but also vs Mexico in Vancouver in WC qualifying. It's difficult enough playing at 3pm in 35C heat in Central America even if you are fast. Jakovic is super cool under pressure good on the ball and is an accurate passer but sooner or later in a big game quality players  will exploit that lack of speed. He does well paired with James but hopefully Cornelius will develop and be his successor going forward.

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Re-signs with LAFC:

https://www.mlssoccer.com/post/2019/01/16/official-lafc-re-sign-defenders-danilo-silva-and-dejan-jakovic

I think we can now safely put the theory (put forth last year in this thread) that he was only signed as part of a pre-emptive bidding war to ensure he didn't play in the CPL to bed, if we hadn't already. ;)

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4 hours ago, Gian-Luca said:

Re-signs with LAFC:

https://www.mlssoccer.com/post/2019/01/16/official-lafc-re-sign-defenders-danilo-silva-and-dejan-jakovic

I think we can now safely put the theory (put forth last year in this thread) that he was only signed as part of a pre-emptive bidding war to ensure he didn't play in the CPL to bed, if we hadn't already. ;)

No mate, that's clearly why they just re-signed him. But maybe a waste to sign him last year. Oh those devious MLS execs, got to hand it to them, they're clever. :)

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Glad to see him back. Always felt he would be. He has a lot of MLS experience and LAFC must have renegotiated and signed him at a lower salary. Great for the club and for him, he's probably still making 6 figures and gets to extend his career another season in sunny SoCal playing at a good level that'll likely keep him on the radar for Gold Cup. 

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